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Taylor Gilkey: Yep, let me try… Yeah, I think we're gonna blur the background. L.X.: Alright, well, firstly, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us today, Taylor. L.X.: My name's L.X. Hammond, and I'm interested in talking with you as part of the Unearthing Towson's History and Occupy Towson Project, L.X.: which seeks to uncover and understand gaps in the archival record for Black student activism on campus.

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L.X.: We're very interested in hearing about your time L.X.: in SGA, and how you experienced Occupy Towson through your own perspective. L.X.: I want to first verify that you received the release form, and that you're okay with us recording our conversation as an oral history, and also that we may also take notes as you're speaking. Is that alright? Taylor Gilkey: Yes, all of those things are awesome.

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L.X.: Great. L.X.: I have about 10 questions to ask you regarding your time and experience at Towson 10 years ago, during the events of Occupy Towson. L.X.: Do you have any questions before we start? Taylor Gilkey: It's a very stressful number to hear for me, but no, I don't have any questions.

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L.X.: Yeah, that makes sense. L.X.: Alright, well, let's get started. Please share some details about your time at Towson, like, years you were there, major, L.X.: organizations you may have been a part of besides SGA [Student Government Association]. Taylor Gilkey: Yeah, so I was a sport management major at Towson from 2013, and I graduated in 2017. I was an in-state student, but I lived on campus

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Taylor Gilkey: or around campus the whole time that I was there. I would say that I was really involved, maybe even a little bit over-involved, but really enjoyed just a huge range of activities from Taylor Gilkey: I participated in ADC [African Diaspora Club], I was a member of The Table, which was a Lutheran on-campus ministry group, obviously SGA in a couple different capacities, and then probably lots of other things that I've forgotten in 10 years. Taylor Gilkey: But those were somewhat of the staples. I also, especially when I was a senator in SGA, made it a point to try and participate in the student groups that I represented, Taylor Gilkey: which, over the course of my time there, included, National Council of Negro Women, the Filipino Student Association,

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Taylor Gilkey: and just, like, a wide range of other groups. So, definitely say a lot of my experience at Towson was shaped by my student involvement, even more so than my academic work. Taylor Gilkey: But I did have the opportunity on the academic side to participate in a lot of really awesome opportunities as well. I was a part of the study abroad program through the sport management group, and I went to Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic. Taylor Gilkey: I volunteered at the Hussman Center for Adults with Autism, which really did shape a big part of my… A huge part of my experience. Taylor Gilkey: So yeah, I overall, I think I enjoyed having just a really well-rounded and out-there experience. I did sports clubs, I was on a club soccer team, so, wide range of things.

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L.X.: Yeah, that's so much. Taylor Gilkey: Like I said, over-involved, probably. L.X.: Yeah, I could see, like, becoming over capacity. Taylor Gilkey: Mhm.

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L.X.: It's being stretched thin and everything like that. L.X.: Yeah, and you were vice president and then later president of SGA, is that right? Taylor Gilkey: Yeah, so my initial introduction to SGA, I was a member of… At the time, we had committees for all of the director positions, so all of the cabinet positions had committees of volunteers. Taylor Gilkey: And so I was on the Athletic Affairs Committee, so I actually applied to be a freshman senator, and I did not get accepted. I was rejected, as a freshman senator,

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Taylor Gilkey: which I admittedly had, like, a little chip on my shoulder about that for a while, but I was rejected as a freshman senator. Taylor Gilkey: My sophomore year, I was a senator, and then my junior year, I was vice president, and then my senior year, I was president. L.X.: So like, a long, storied history in SGA. Taylor Gilkey: Deep roots, yeah.

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L.X.: So, I'm curious when you became aware of the Occupy Towson movement, or I guess how you got word of it. Were you L.X.: having one-on-one conversations with anybody, or were you a part of the organizing in any way? Taylor Gilkey: Yeah, this is gonna be an interesting exercise in memory, and, like, how people remember things differently, and I will admittedly say that, just between that being a really intense period in time, and also just the time lapse in between, Taylor Gilkey: some of the details are quite fuzzy, but I will say, like, to keep it somewhat vague, you know, the end of my

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Taylor Gilkey: junior year, when I was vice president, was when Freddie Gray was murdered by the police. There was a huge national uprising of student activism at the time, including Taylor Gilkey: in and around Towson, and so I would say, you know, at that time, Taylor Gilkey: we were made aware of just that increase of student activism, specifically Black student activism, and there were a number of different events, and I would say, organizations popping up, Taylor Gilkey: and a lot of members of SGA were involved in those in different capacities. I know that I went to protests in Baltimore, I went to events on and off campus in my personal capacity, especially events on campus. It often

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Taylor Gilkey: ended up tying back to my SGA capacity, whether my own, like, doing or somebody else bringing it, like, to attention. Taylor Gilkey: But I would say that was kind of the beginning of it, right? There were a couple of different movements happening then, like, #WeAreMizzou, and then there was a similar #WeAreTowson, and Taylor Gilkey: I guess that's the beginning of when I came to understand the specific Occupy Towson movement, but things didn't really come into focus for me as far as Taylor Gilkey: what was happening on our campus with Occupy Towson until shortly before the sit-in that happened, in our initial SGA General Assembly.

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L.X.: Yeah, and so, the initial, like, SGA takeover, were you there when that occurred? Oh okay. L.X.: And could you describe, kind of, like, what happened? Taylor Gilkey: Yeah, so… L.X.: If you remember?

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Taylor Gilkey: Yeah, so like I said, and I'm really interested to see what videos and photography you guys uncover from this. I know there was some stuff, like, on Twitter and all the things, but Taylor Gilkey: so… Taylor Gilkey: We were made aware that there was gonna be, like, a display of activism at the meeting, so it was not a surprise to us. Some of the details we were not 100% looped in on or aware of, but we were aware, and administration was aware that something was gonna happen. We moved our General Assembly room. Taylor Gilkey: And this was, ugh, when we had just the very different version of the Union than you all have now. But there was this little dark room in the back of the Union that we used to have our meetings in, that it was, like, just enough space for us to fit and maybe

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Taylor Gilkey: 10 or 15 other people. People very rarely came to our SGA meetings, but they moved us upstairs to where our ballrooms are at the Union in that time, because they were made aware that there were gonna be, like, a… That there was going to be a heightened level of attendance, and so Taylor Gilkey: I remember, Taylor Gilkey: preparing for the meeting looked like, you know, administration was consulting with us. I'm like, hey, look, this is what you can and can't do in your capacity as a student. Taylor Gilkey: Some of the members of Occupy Towson were also kind of talking to us about issues and concerns that they had, and what they were going to bring forward to us. I believe we had seen a copy of the list of demands in advance, an unofficial copy of it.

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Taylor Gilkey: And so, when we started the meeting, and again, I was vice president at the time, and Taylor Gilkey: the Vice President oversees, like, Chairs of those General Assembly meetings. Taylor Gilkey: So I just remember, you know, towards the beginning of the meeting, there were people coming in, they had signs, they were loud, it was, like, a true, like, what you would imagine is, I guess I would say, a pretty, like, classic display of activism. Taylor Gilkey: But it started off pretty intense from the very beginning.

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Taylor Gilkey: And it was a prolonged… You know, typically we operate the meetings using Robert's Rules of Order, which is super fancy, not a way that anybody would talk in everyday life, not a casual way to conduct a meeting. Taylor Gilkey: And there's, like, very specific sets of rules, and I think as a part of the, like, intentional act of being disruptive, they were like, well, we won't be listening to these rules. And so it did throw off the way that we were operating the meeting. Taylor Gilkey: I do, like, some specific things I remember. I was doing a lot of talking. I was the Chair of the meeting. I do remember they were, like, very adamant about hearing from Kurt specifically, because he was the president. Taylor Gilkey: I do remember there being, like, a heightened level also of

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Taylor Gilkey: administrative presence there, but they weren't participating. They were really just... Taylor Gilkey: They were really just spectators, I would say, and I do remember that being, like, really challenging, especially for Kurt and I, of kind of feeling like we had been… And I'll speak for myself. Taylor Gilkey: I know you guys are gonna talk with Kurt, but I know for me, just a sense of feeling like we had been, like, sacrificed, like, put up as a Taylor Gilkey: sacrifice and kind of just lacking a little bit of support on that end. At the time, we did not know about the intention to do the sit-in in the

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Taylor Gilkey: president's office, and so I do just remember having these feelings of, like, oh my goodness, this is, like, so intense, and these are so many things that are not even on us that we're being held accountable for. Taylor Gilkey: But yeah, it was overall, I would say, it's definitely the most interesting SGA meeting at General Assembly we probably had, and I… that part in particular of the movement definitely, for me, was the most memorable and stands out the most. L.X.: Could you talk more about just L.X.: lacking support and feeling, I guess, like, maybe unprepared for what was happening?

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Taylor Gilkey: Yeah, I mean, I can say that, especially later in life, I now feel ultra-prepared for any sort of, like, confrontation, because I'm like, oh man, and I remember, especially, like, early in my career, I was like, man, if I could Taylor Gilkey: sit through that, and, like, deal with that, I can deal with anything. Like, I can deal with the manager kind of getting down on me, or, like, a tough client meeting, or whatever, like, you know, we survived this sit-in. But yeah, I think it was behind the scenes. Administration was definitely Taylor Gilkey: in our ear, and kind of like, look, this is what you can do, this is what you can't do. But then in our actual General Assembly meeting, and some, subsequent interactions after that, Taylor Gilkey: I do think… And, you know, I'm not saying this was a right or wrong decision, but I do think they viewed it as these are student… These are issues that students are working on amongst each other, and they did not intervene very much. Again, that was until, of course, that part of the movement happened.

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Taylor Gilkey: But it was a very much thing of, like, okay, we're gonna instruct you on what you can and can't do as an entity of the university, but we are gonna let you all take the lead and take the charge on this. L.X.: Gotcha. L.X.: And what do you believe your role was during Occupy Towson? Taylor Gilkey: So,

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Taylor Gilkey: I'll kind of back into this question, and I'll start with saying that something that I think being in SGA in general taught me, but especially being the Occupy Towson movement, was that if someone says or believes something about you Taylor Gilkey: or something that you're doing that is not true. Taylor Gilkey: instead of immediately becoming defensive, take a step back and think about why someone might believe that to be true. And that's something that has really, truly guided me through so much of my personal and professional life post-Towson. And that really came about to me from what was happening during Taylor Gilkey: the Occupy Towson movement, because I think in big part, we, as SGA, especially before things got taken to the administrative level, were somewhat vilified, were somewhat...

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Taylor Gilkey: We were being held up as, like, the bad guys who are misusing the system, contributing to systematic Taylor Gilkey: inequality, like, lacking a sense of general care for people was a big thing that came up a lot. I can think of specific instances, like I said, of showing up to community events and directly being called out Taylor Gilkey: of like a, hey, like, you are the issue, you are the problem. I do think that things shifted as we did some Taylor Gilkey: communicating, collaboration, education, things shifted to being partners with the people that were involved on the activist side of the movement

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Taylor Gilkey: and really developing a relationship, right? Like, there are several members of Occupy Towson who then later went on to hold positions in SGA, Taylor Gilkey: lots of folks that I have, like, a personal relationship with. Breya was at my wedding, like, Korey and I talk often, she's having a baby, and I've been… Like, she invited me to her baby shower, and I just sent her, like, a gift for her baby, so… Taylor Gilkey: Even though I think we started on very opposing sides. Taylor Gilkey: Like I said, through the realization that a lot of our hopes, desires, efforts were more aligned than they were different, there was definitely, like, a teamwork and collaboration piece at the end.

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Taylor Gilkey: But as far as the beginning, I don't think I was a participant of Occupy Towson, I think I was, like, on the other side. Or at least that was the visual, right? Like, I don't think when they drew up their plans and started, they were like, oh yeah, we're gonna use SGA as a partner. It was like, nope, SGA is a part of the problem. So hopefully that answers your question. L.X.: Yeah, no, that gives some clarity around, specifically, like, L.X.: what you're experiencing and, like, your relationship to, like, the organizers. L.X.: And as a student,

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L.X.: did the movement overall impact your experience at TU? Taylor Gilkey: Yeah, I mean, I would say Taylor Gilkey: in general, I think lots of Black students just… There was, like, a reckoning, right, of, like, Black students in universities just at the time, and then a larger reckoning of, Taylor Gilkey: obviously different than what happened in 2020, but to me, this is, like, the prelude of some of what's happening behind a larger Black Lives Matter movement. And so.

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Taylor Gilkey: I think for me, it was the first time in my life that I experienced Taylor Gilkey: the, like, that big of a level of duality, right? Of, like, you know, I'm a Black student, and I'm also upset that Black people are being murdered by the police, and I'm also upset about these inequities in these systems. Taylor Gilkey: But I'm also in a position of authority or power, for lack of a better word. Taylor Gilkey: And there's something that I can do about it. And I also am thinking about,

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Taylor Gilkey: or I also have a responsibility to consider the best interests of a wider group of people and a bigger institution. Taylor Gilkey: And trying to balance all of those things, especially at 21, was a big... And especially when I hadn't been stretched in that way before, right? Like, Taylor Gilkey: I've met, especially now, I've met activists who are, like, 14, 15, 16 years old, who are Taylor Gilkey: really civically engaged that are way smarter than probably I even am now, but I think for me, I had a certain level of experience in civic engagement, but really that, like, catapulted me into it, in that, like, activism form, and so

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Taylor Gilkey: I think especially translating from Taylor Gilkey: junior year to senior year, it really did shape the way that I thought about my time as president, because I did then try to consider things just a little bit differently. Like I said, exploring that duality of balancing the roles, and just remembering... Taylor Gilkey: I think one of the really good things was that prior to that, like I told you, we would have our SGA meetings, not many people would come, and it really was, again, at 21, probably, like, way too much power, and we were like, I'm gonna, like, do what we want, and there's little accountability, right? And I don't say that in a way to say that I think people were intentionally doing things harm, like, in a harmful way. Taylor Gilkey: But I think people were doing things that they thought they were… That they thought were best without necessarily, like, a check and balance or accountability. And that was…

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Taylor Gilkey: That was not something that… Taylor Gilkey: I disagreed with, right? Like, part of the reason Kurt and I ran for SGA was because we felt like there was kind of this, like, inner circle of people who were just kind of, like, doing the same things. There were people being left out, right? Like, that was a huge part of our campaign, and we were totally aligned with that from the very beginning. Taylor Gilkey: And then I think Occupy Towson helped take that to the next level for me, as far as Taylor Gilkey: not just considering the people who are in the room, but considering, like, a wider range and a wider group of people. So that shaped it a bunch.

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Taylor Gilkey: Especially during the election, in 2016, Taylor Gilkey: and at the beginning of my presidency, I was definitely… Like I said, I'm not gonna use the word, like, public figure, but I think I was a symbol of something that people just, like, didn't agree with at the time, and that did manifest in me being, like, Taylor Gilkey: called out, like, harassed. I remember, like, two specific instances. One, there was a rally in Freedom Square that I attended, and I spoke, and my focus really was around unity and trying to bring people together despite their feelings about the results of the election. Taylor Gilkey: And I was coerced into doing, like, an interview post-event. They did the interview, posted it on some, like, far-right website, and had totally, like, chopped and manipulated everything that I said.

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Taylor Gilkey: There were students, like, constantly emailing me, just, like, their frustrations, their issues, their complaints, but not in a… It was very different than it was when Kurt and I were president and vice president. I think everything was Taylor Gilkey: charged in the sense of, like, there are people in power, and there are people not in power, and you're one of the people in power, and, like, here's our issues. So that definitely shaped my experience, and I think just Taylor Gilkey: being in a political-adjacent role, post-Occupy Towson, post-2016 election, I think just shaped the way that I operated on campus as, like, an individual person, but then also in my role as president. L.X.: Yeah, so you have a lot of things going on politically just around you, but also, like,

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L.X.: sort of a double consciousness of, like, okay, well, I'm a person with some power because I'm a part of this institution, but also, like, L.X.: people who look like me are getting murdered, and so, like, you're L.X.: just fighting that with, like, people on both sides... Taylor Gilkey: Yeah.

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L.X.: ...of the equation, like, you have people who are saying you're not doing enough, and L.X.: you have people who are saying you're doing too much, I guess, in a way. Taylor Gilkey: Yeah, and I think… And, you know, I think this comes up a lot now. Taylor Gilkey: I think people… There is a truth that you can identify with… There's a truth that you can identify with a group of people and not necessarily identify in what some people would consider to be a shared experience.

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Taylor Gilkey: And then there's the truth that you can do things that are not in your own individual self-interest, or in the collective interest of a group of people that you belong to, so I totally understand that. And I just remember there are times where I'd be like, hey, like, I'm showing up in this space as a Black student, and I am just as concerned as Taylor Gilkey: everybody else in this room is, and I remember one time specifically being like, well, just because you're Black doesn't mean you get it, and there are Ben Carsons in the world, and there are, like, these people in the world, and... L.X.: Right. Taylor Gilkey: And this feeling of, like… And that was a challenge for me, too, right? Of being like,

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Taylor Gilkey: is my Blackness being erased because I've chosen to be a part of this group, right? And I think for me, that was also especially challenging. One, as someone who just Taylor Gilkey: I grew up in a really predominantly Black space, Taylor Gilkey: I grew up having, like, Black teachers and Black doctors, and I never… I didn't have the experience until college of viewing Blackness necessarily as something Taylor Gilkey: that a lot of people, especially in my immediate community, maybe felt like they had been penalized for, for lack of a better phrase. So there was that piece, but then there was also this piece of, like,

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Taylor Gilkey: on an individual level, I have had the experience of, like, showing up in Black spaces and people being like, oh, you don't talk Black, or you don't have this specific experience. And so all of that for me, like I said, both on an individual level, but then in my position that I was holding, kind of really did come to a swell at this time, and I do think it did inform the way, especially, like... Taylor Gilkey: Like I said, that happening at the end of my junior year really did inform the way that I moved and operated Taylor Gilkey: both as somebody who's like, hey, I'm Taylor Gilkey: both ending this, like, academic chapter of my life, but then I'm also, like, ending this SGA, which has been, like, a huge part of my life. I'm ending that part of my life, and like, how do I want to finish that, and what do I want to leave?

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Taylor Gilkey: as a part of this experience. L.X.: Yeah, your legacy. Taylor Gilkey: Yeah. L.X.: Now, this might be a little bit of a

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L.X.: sensitive question, so we can skip it if you'd like, but I'm curious, what were race relations like on campus during this time? Taylor Gilkey: Yeah, I mean, Kurt and I talk about this a lot. Kurt and I are really good friends. L.X.: Oh, cool. Taylor Gilkey: Yeah, we, like, have dinner once a month, and we talk almost weekly, so…

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L.X.: Wow. Taylor Gilkey: Yeah, we're really… Kurt and I are really good friends. Taylor Gilkey: We talk about this a lot. So we had started something called #NotAtTU, around, like, it was like an anti-hate-bias campaign. I honestly cannot remember the timing of that in these events, but Kurt probably can. Taylor Gilkey: And there were lots of things happening on campus. Like I said, the election was obviously in November, but the campaign… The presidential campaign was already happening

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Taylor Gilkey: in earlier of 2016, and then obviously part of 2015. And so I do remember there being, like, lots of anti-Semitism on campus, Taylor Gilkey: just lots of hate bias in general, and really, they were pretty one-off or isolated incidents of, like, really egregious things, like racial slurs being written in Freedom Square, or Taylor Gilkey: people receiving anonymous text messages. We, at the time, had this god-awful thing called YikYak, which… L.X.: Still have it.

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Taylor Gilkey: YikYak is-- For real? Taylor Gilkey: I don't understand how this can still exist. We had, like, a bomb threat on campus from YikYak. Like, it was the worst. Taylor Gilkey: So there were… I just remember there were just little things on YikYak happening, like I said, physical things of people, like, writing in Freedom Square. So though… Definitely the more overtly egregious things were happening in that way, right? But then there was definitely more Taylor Gilkey: subliminal,

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Taylor Gilkey: challenging race relations happening that I think were informed by a number of things. So, the year before I came to campus, we had the White Student Union trying to make a big presence on campus while I was there. Turning Point Taylor Gilkey: was making a bigger presence on campus, and that caused a lot of tension as far as Taylor Gilkey: how students whose views and opinions did not align with those groups Taylor Gilkey: felt about their ability to be able to, like, be on campus and show up as themselves, et cetera, et cetera.

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Taylor Gilkey: And I think it just caused a lot of tension, right? Like, especially the White Student Union was, like, a huge point of contention. I think people weren't as aware about what Turning Point's Taylor Gilkey: views were, who were not necessarily as politically engaged, but that caused tension, right? I think Towson was at the beginning of experiencing, like, a big shift in the racial makeup of the campus, and what diversity looked like. I know even, like, in SGA, Taylor Gilkey: the racial makeup of the SGA shifted a bunch, like, from even just in the four years that I was there, from when I was a freshman to when I was a senior, and now when I look at it, it looks like the complete opposite of what it looked like when I was starting out in SGA. And so, I think that caused some tension. Taylor Gilkey: I think… But in all, I think there were a lot of efforts to focus on building community, bringing people together, establishing, common shared ground. So I would say that, to me, it didn't feel hostile on campus.

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Taylor Gilkey: But I think even, like, how I started off telling you about my experience, I think I was so plugged into so many different pieces of campus that I may have had a different, feeling and understanding about race relations because of the way that I was Taylor Gilkey: specifically engaged. L.X.: Right, yeah, that makes sense. L.X.: And I guess going back to one of the demands that Occupy had,

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L.X.: do you think that Towson has diversified its faculty and student body L.X.: since that time? Taylor Gilkey: So, hard for me to say, right, and I'm sure there's some data around this, but, I mean, Taylor Gilkey: I guess from what I've observed, definitely seems a lot more diverse on the student side. Not sure about the faculty and staff side, just because my experience is kind of anecdotal, just as far as who I am interacting with.

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Taylor Gilkey: I do think, even though while I was there, we started to see a shift and a push and effort to diversify the staff, but I know… And I was telling Kurt this this morning as I was kind of reviewing the questions, even within our two majors, I think there was a big difference, right? Like, Taylor Gilkey: I was a sport management major, and what the composition of my classes looked like was a lot different than his. He was, like, an information systems major. Taylor Gilkey: And I told him, like, I had several classes that I was the only woman in class, Taylor Gilkey: and I don't remember if in the sport management department… I cannot remember

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Taylor Gilkey: any Black professors, and maybe one, like, non-white professor? Taylor Gilkey: again, when I am on campus now, it seems more diverse, but I'm sure, like, hard for me to give a definitive answer, and I'm sure you guys have some, like, data around that, but yeah, I guess, like, it feels a lot more diverse to me. L.X.: And you've seen, like, the progression of, like, the diversity, too. Like, you're kind of, like, in the middle of that. Taylor Gilkey: Yeah.

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L.X.: Do you remember any of the other demands at all, or do you need, like, a refresher on that? Taylor Gilkey: I would love a refresher, but I do remember some, and then I do remember that there were slightly diff… We had… I remember we had, like, set up a tracker on the website. Taylor Gilkey: But I do remember there were some, and then I remember they kind of, like, changed. The biggest one that I remember was the, like, divestment from MCE, which that one was probably the one we did the most research, and Taylor Gilkey: just, like, work around.

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Taylor Gilkey: I remember Kurt went to even, like, tour, one of the MCE programs, so that one definitely stands out to me. I remember the question of tenure track and increasing Taylor Gilkey: the amount of Black faculty and staff, and I remember that one was, like, a very ambitious demand. I don't remember, like, the exact, like, qualifiers that were in there, but I… Taylor Gilkey: If I had to guess, I'm almost certain that that probably still hasn't been re… I don't know, I won't… I won't be confident. 10 years is a long time, but I do remember that one particularly, just feeling like, oh man, that might be Taylor Gilkey: a tough one to achieve. But yeah.

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L.X.: Why do you say that? Taylor Gilkey: I guess I was thinking of it from, like, a statistics point of view, and so, like… L.X.: Okay. Taylor Gilkey: Well... What, do you have it in front of you?

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L.X.: Yeah, I have the demands in front of me. L.X.: These are the original ones, and I think they were edited and, like, kind of negotiated throughout the sit-in process, but... Taylor Gilkey: What was the one around tenure again? L.X.: Increasing the Black faculty on tenure track by 16% by 2018.

00:34:32.850 - 00:35:15.340

Taylor Gilkey: Right, so I think, like, we were talking about this in 2016. Taylor Gilkey: And then, I remember thinking… I do remember thinking, like, oh, well, if it's pretty low already, then it might only be one or two extra people, and then that's not hard. But I do remember, especially when talking to faculty and staff about, like, what does it look like to get on tenure track, and then Taylor Gilkey: do we even have the people currently on our faculty that are in a position to satisfy this requirement? That was why that one, like, stood out to me as being, like, Taylor Gilkey: this might be tough. And then I also remember

00:35:15.640 - 00:35:48.730

Taylor Gilkey: we had, like, one really popular professor at the time, who I think was on tenure track, and then, like, didn't get it, and so then also being like, well, Taylor Gilkey: is this, for me, like, on a personal level, I mean, like... Taylor Gilkey: And especially coming from sport management, I'm not sure if you all are familiar with the Rooney Rule, but Taylor Gilkey: it's this rule in professional football where teams… it was created to encourage teams to interview Black applicants for head coaching positions, but it ended up...

00:35:48.730 - 00:36:26.120

Taylor Gilkey: It would end up that they would always, like, bring in one Black applicant just to check the box, and then they would never get the job. So I remember that coming top of mind to me, too, being like, oh my god, are we just gonna put all these poor people on tenure track, which requires work of them, and then none of them are gonna get it? So that was kind of the reason why that one stood out to me. Taylor Gilkey: So, yeah. L.X.: Yeah. Could you talk more about your experience, like, L.X.: I guess scheduling the MCE tour, and, like, I guess any information that you might remember from that?

00:36:26.350 - 00:37:07.730

Taylor Gilkey: Yeah, and that would be a good one to check with Kurt about, because Taylor Gilkey: he did most of that work, and he actually went on the tour, I didn't go. But I remember that it was a question that had come up before, it was a question that had come up at other universities, and I do remember a lot of the uniqueness in Taylor Gilkey: our program with MCE versus some states with for-profit prisons and things like that was one. Taylor Gilkey: I do remember the representatives from MCE, both the staff representatives and then, like, the proctors, people, like, running the program.

00:37:07.930 - 00:37:49.420

Taylor Gilkey: It's just that, like, they have a huge waiting list for this program of people who want to work here. And then I do remember people who are actively participating in the program, and me even feeling this kind of way of, like, is it really our place as college students to be informing such a significant change Taylor Gilkey: to something that most of us, especially who we're working on directly at the time, to me have no known experience with? Taylor Gilkey: And then hearing very vocally and very loudly, like, Taylor Gilkey: hey, this is actually not something that people who are participating in this or have a desire to participate in this program, want to see ended.

00:37:49.420 - 00:38:22.020

Taylor Gilkey: And so then I… And I do remember bringing that to some of the organizers of, like, hey, are we coming at this from a point of our own privilege, and maybe have some blind spots, and not being able to see the big picture? Taylor Gilkey: And then I remember, too, that it really wasn't a university-level decision to be made. It's like a university system, like a question of the university system. Taylor Gilkey: And so that was a… Taylor Gilkey: That was a whole piece as well.

00:38:23.210 - 00:39:00.540

L.X.: Right, so you have, like, a whole layer of representatives who get the say in all of this, and then you also have, like, prisoners who are actively, like, wanting to be a part of this program. L.X.: Right, and there's no, like, L.X.: I guess, like, group or representative from the prisoners that are saying, like, hey, we don't want to do this anymore, or have this program ended. And that makes sense, because, L.X.: like, I mean, it was, like, what, the better paying option for most prisoners.

00:39:00.540 - 00:40:06.700

Taylor Gilkey: Right, well, and also, I mean, and I remember that was the concern, right? The students were like, they're not being paid… I think they're being paid, like, pennies or something, cents. However, then when we went in, and I mean, I have a friend who Taylor Gilkey: received his electrician certification while he was incarcerated, and he was like, if I hadn't have done that, Taylor Gilkey: without a shadow of a doubt, I would have been back. I would have been incarcerated again. And so, I think for a lot of people also, it wasn't even about the money that they were making, which was a big focus that we had. It was about, like, this is, like, training, this is a work experience, so that when I'm no longer incarcerated, I can Taylor Gilkey: I have something else to put on my resume. And I remember that being something that stood out to me, too, with someone saying, like, hey, can you imagine having a 5-year gap of work, and then trying to get a job? Like, it would be hard to even get a job in fast food with that. And so, they're like, even jobs where you think, oh, there's lots of opportunities, quickly become harder for people to obtain

00:40:07.230 - 00:40:48.200

Taylor Gilkey: if they're lacking work experience, or if they have a big gap in their resume. And then I remember, too, for us, or for me, I should really speak for myself, for me, once I started looking at it truly more of, like, an educational program, Taylor Gilkey: and more of, like, a trade program than a work program, it also made sense, because I'm like, okay, if you're going to trade school, you're actually not getting paid to do that. Taylor Gilkey: If you have an internship, you're not getting paid to do that. And obviously, there are some things that are different, right? They are making… the people in that program are making Taylor Gilkey: equipment and probably doing more work than most college students are doing in their internship.

00:40:48.200 - 00:41:43.890

Taylor Gilkey: But really, truly, from what we learned, it was, like, a highly coveted position, almost of, like, prestige, within the system. And it's like, if you were in this program, you were viewed really highly amongst your peers, it helped people become eligible for early release, like, there were a lot of benefits Taylor Gilkey: that I think, again, as, like, college students, that without having a direct conversation with somebody a little bit closer to what was going on, it was hard to maybe see. Taylor Gilkey: And like I said, this was the issue that had been brought up, for instance, in places… I think, like, Texas was a big one, where they have, like, for-profit prisons, and it's just very different. The landscape is very different. Taylor Gilkey: But I… To me, it was not like a one-to-one when we tried to apply it to what was happening with us.

00:41:45.700 - 00:42:00.640

L.X.: Yeah. Oh, that makes sense. L.X.: And also, there was, like, a demand L.X.: about the policing practices on campus, and that there is a disparity between Black and white students there. L.X.: Do you recall that at all?

00:42:00.960 - 00:42:57.970

Taylor Gilkey: So, yes, and I think… So one thing that was, like, a huge… It was a joke when I was there, is we used to get these text alerts when something would happen. I don't know if you all still get that, but sometimes the descriptions were so vague, it would be like, Taylor Gilkey: Black male, Taylor Gilkey: wearing dark colors between 5'5 and 5'10, like, or, like, 5'5 and 5'11", like, just the most kind of, like, generic description you could get, and people are like, oh, that could be anybody, that could be me, that could be you. And I do remember that was, like, a big one, because… And the text alerts Taylor Gilkey: were a tough one, because now students are doing their own sort of, like, data analysis of, like, well, how many texts do I get about when a Black student does something versus a white student versus this and that? And there wasn't necessarily another point of contact to have as much,

00:42:58.570 - 00:43:55.580

Taylor Gilkey: just, like, information sharing, and I think at the time, the police… There were some positive police interactions happening, like, we did this big, like, public safety event, that was great, but the most common interaction that students were having with public safety was getting those text alerts, and Taylor Gilkey: I think there was a imbalance. There was an imbalance of saying, like, okay, hey, this is how we use that kind of information to find suspects, keep students safe. Taylor Gilkey: And then on the public safety side, it's like, can you imagine if you fit this description, and you're getting this text, like, every week that matches your description, like, how that would impact how you walk around campus? Taylor Gilkey: I remember that being, like, a big point of conversation. But I remember in general in SGA, at the time, we had a community officer, her name was Kia.

00:43:55.580 - 00:44:31.080

Taylor Gilkey: like, her role was really to be engaging with the students. She came to almost all of our SGA meetings, and there was a big effort from public safety to engage with students more. Taylor Gilkey: I just think there were not a lot of Taylor Gilkey: good oppor… Or there were not a lot of good activations of, like, positive engagement between the police and students. And again, there was also the added context of what was happening on a more national level. Taylor Gilkey: So, yeah.

00:44:32.170 - 00:44:50.110

L.X.: Right. And what about the events? L.X.: There are like… L.X.: I guess, like, there are, like, Black homecoming events, and, like, white homecoming events, or there's, like, a… Taylor Gilkey: There are a couple big things. So, I remember… So the way that we did budgeting at the time, we did not

00:44:50.300 - 00:45:14.280

Taylor Gilkey: offer clubs budgets for social events. Taylor Gilkey: Which Taylor Gilkey: was vague, right? So… And the clubs in themselves are social. So, a little bit tough to consider what we call a social event, but typically we're, like, for parties and things like that, we wouldn't offer Taylor Gilkey: funding.

00:45:14.630 - 00:46:11.020

Taylor Gilkey: It came into question of, like, specifically, I remember the Black Student Union was like, hey, us having a cookout is actually… It's not a social event, it is really, truly a cultural event, in the same way that other student groups might have similar cultural events. This cookout is less a party, more a cultural event. Taylor Gilkey: And I think there was just, like, a lack of understanding from SGA on that, especially if you… If that's not a part of your, like, cultural context. Taylor Gilkey: And they're feeling like there was a gap, right? Of like, okay, well, if somebody's club is about computers, and that's their interest, Taylor Gilkey: then isn't them throwing, like, a computer fair just as social as us, like, having a cookout? So there was, like, a huge disparity there of, like, who's getting funding versus who isn't.

00:46:11.510 - 00:47:03.720

Taylor Gilkey: And then I just think, too, in the… And can you read that whole demand? I'm just interested. L.X.: Sure, so the original one says, require that policing practices be equitable for Black events and white events alike, by spring 2016. Taylor Gilkey: Yeah, and so that was the other thing. There's, like, specific… Taylor Gilkey: There were specific policing and security requirements that, because of the way that they were written, I think, disproportionately impacted the types of events that the Black student groups were throwing at the time, right? So they're like, hey, if we want to have a cookout, but now it's like, okay, we're using a grill, which requires security. We're outside, which requires extra security. And then we have… And these aren't the super

00:47:03.720 - 00:47:47.610

Taylor Gilkey: specific, so… You know, I'm just giving this for the gist, but it's like... Taylor Gilkey: And then we have this many people, so that requires this many security officers. Now, that event requires significantly more security than somebody that's, like I said, throwing something in an academic building that's a lecture, right? And it was, because of the types of events that groups were throwing, it was, at least anecdotally, Taylor Gilkey: significantly impacting the Black student groups more. Also, events on campus Taylor Gilkey: are obviously handled very differently than events off campus. I remember at the time, specifically a lot of, like, the fraternities and sororities were throwing their socials...

00:47:47.610 - 00:48:38.910

Taylor Gilkey: I remember a lot of the... And I always get the letters mixed up, but the non-historically Black sororities and fraternities were throwing a lot of their parties off campus, and so, you know, they don't have to apply by the university's rules, but then there were a lot of groups, including some fraternities and sororities, that were trying to Taylor Gilkey: throw their parties on campus, and there's just, you know, a different set of rules. And so I do remember the police kind of coming to us and giving some of the data, and I think a lot of it... Taylor Gilkey: It looked a lot worse than it was. And again, a lot of it was Taylor Gilkey: a sharing of anecdotal experiences, and just some gaps that have been created in the policies, like, inadvertently.

00:48:38.910 - 00:49:12.030

Taylor Gilkey: And it wasn't considered of how it would impact certain groups, but not necessarily intentionally meant to disenfranchise certain groups, which I think was a big learning, Taylor Gilkey: for me, individually, and the university as a whole, of just remembering that, like, Taylor Gilkey: impact and intention might not always line up, but impact does really matter, no matter what the intention is. So, so yeah, that was a big one, too. L.X.: Yeah.

00:49:12.860 - 00:49:39.260

L.X.: And L.X.: do you believe that the inner workings of the SGA have changed at all? Taylor Gilkey: So it's really interesting, and I was talking to Kurt about this a little bit. We did visit the SGA office, Taylor Gilkey: like, last time we were both on campus together, we were there for, like, a donor's dinner or something, and it was really fun talking to them. It was really, really cool.

00:49:39.510 - 00:50:28.110

Taylor Gilkey: I do think that it seems as if some things are different. Like I said, we had already started to see, like, a bit of a pendulum sling. One really big point of concern that I have is honestly that I think we were really aware of the amount of, like, power that we had, Taylor Gilkey: as students, as a part of the shared governance structure, and we were really emboldened by that in a way that I think was, like, healthy for the checks and balances of the university, like, Taylor Gilkey: we probably were slightly overzealous college kids, which I'm sure is how the faculty and administration felt, but I think it was good from a sense of, like, accountability and Taylor Gilkey: like I said, those checks and balances. I know that there were some

00:50:28.320 - 00:51:08.430

Taylor Gilkey: abuses of power, like, some financial issues and things that happened shortly after Kurt and I left that caused the administration to really reel in the SGA, and I think some of that reeling in and some of that Taylor Gilkey: advising oversight, the way that kind of changed Taylor Gilkey: somewhat Taylor Gilkey: took away some of the power that SGA had, and when we were talking to them, there were so many things that were like, you can do this, and you should be asking for that, and this… We're like, oh my god, we can do that? And Kurt and I were also talking about how

00:51:08.920 - 00:52:03.490

Taylor Gilkey: a lot of the history of SGA is an oral passing of history, and at least when we were there, there was not a part of our legislative process that included research from a historical perspective, right? Of, like, Taylor Gilkey: this is why this bill was created, this is who made it, this is… Or even what all the bills that were passed, what were they? This is who created it, this is why. And I think that because of that, it becomes tough, because, like, Taylor Gilkey: there were some of the things that they were telling us that we were like, oh, we already did that. Taylor Gilkey: But… And they just might not have known, or… And especially, and Ashley can probably speak to this, especially then once you get to the University Senate level, it's like, if you guys want to take something to University Senate that we've already passed as an SGA, it's going to take forever to get it through there, so, like, don't waste time

00:52:03.490 - 00:52:42.270

Taylor Gilkey: arguing about it in SGA, like, when you already have things that you can be pushing forward. Taylor Gilkey: And, I mean, quite frankly, and I've heard this from friends who I know who are staff and faculty now at institutions, like, I also wanted to tell SGA, like, the faculty and staff are just waiting you out, because they know that, like, the students are gonna change over every four years, and so there's some faculty and staff that are just banking on, like, hey, eventually this is gonna get lost in the shuffle. Taylor Gilkey: We don't… As long as we can stall whatever they're trying to do. And of course, that's not everyone. But anyway, I say all that to say that Taylor Gilkey: I feel like

00:52:42.780 - 00:53:38.780

Taylor Gilkey: one of the things that were lost by kind of removing that inner circle of SGA people who were always there was that there was a really strong oral history and, like, culture of, like, sharing information that it seems like has maybe gotten a bit lost as it's Taylor Gilkey: become open to just a wider group of people. The other thing that was concerning to me was, like, the lower participation. Like I said, I remember Taylor Gilkey: when I was in SGA, like, our elections were really pretty competitive. Every once in a while, like, the year I ran for president, I ran… It was uncontended, and so I didn't run against anyone. But, I mean, we… When Kurt and I were running together, it was, like, such an intense election. There were so many people running for senator, and I remember, like, now they're telling me they're, like, Taylor Gilkey: not able to even fill all the Senate positions and things like that, which is really surprising to me, because it was such a, like,

00:53:38.850 - 00:54:33.640

Taylor Gilkey: a desirable position at that time, and I would be interested, even just from a student body perspective, especially in a generation that I think most people consider to be really Taylor Gilkey: such a strong generation of activists, and really, like, civically minded in a way that generations before maybe weren't, I'm always… I was really shocked that there weren't more people actively wanting to get involved in SGA, and I was asking them, like, why? So yeah, those are some things that, I guess, from my pretty distant Taylor Gilkey: observation of it have maybe changed as far as the inner workings, and some of that could be off-base, so, you know, that's just my opinion. L.X.: Yeah, no, I think that makes sense, like, and I've seen it also, just, like, a general sense of apathy, I guess.

00:54:34.390 - 00:55:21.300

L.X.: I don't know if it's, like, an age thing. I'm a little bit older, so there's definitely that gap there, but yeah, it seems like there's, like, some apathy, and also, like, maybe some hopelessness, too. Taylor Gilkey: Hmm. Taylor Gilkey: And I can understand that, right? I, like, I'm cynical about so many things, and especially, I mean, like I said, we, at the time, were really aware and really clued into, like, how much influence SGA had, and I think that was desirable, and so some of my Taylor Gilkey: thinking is that maybe as people view them as having less influence, power, whatever, it just becomes less attractive if it just feels like all these people are figureheads and not, like, impacting real, significant, long-standing change.

00:55:22.410 - 00:55:39.950

L.X.: Yeah. L.X.: I also, looked into, like, the SGA archives, and I think it stops, like, at, like, 1991 or something like that. L.X.: So there hasn't even been, like, a lot of archival updates from SGA L.X.: in quite some time.

00:55:40.370 - 00:56:21.620

Taylor Gilkey: And, oh, yeah, that… Kurt and I were talking about that also, I mean… I know we had Taylor Gilkey: a woman, Miss Mary, very sweet woman, she has since passed away, but she was Taylor Gilkey: administratively supporting us, but there was a lot of work for her to do, and there was no position within SGA as far as somebody that was responsible for updating those archives. And Kurt and I had started working on, like, a project with Salesforce Taylor Gilkey: to try to create, like, a database, and it was bigger around, like, student groups and things like that. Do you guys have Involved @ TU still?

00:56:21.810 - 00:57:09.420

L.X.: Yeah. Taylor Gilkey: Yeah, so it was initially, like, a replacement for that, but also a way for student groups to log their history, a way for SGA to log our history. It was gonna be super expensive at the time, but now, and even Kurt and I have been talking about this, how, like, with AI, how it'd be so easy… Not easy, but, like, it would be so much easier, Taylor Gilkey: at least from, like, a data entry perspective, to try to collect more and more of that history. I'm sure, or I'm hopeful, lots of it still lives in, like, at least a drive or something somewhere, or that there's some physical copies. But that would be an interesting project, maybe we need to start our own little SGA archive team. L.X.: Yeah.

00:57:09.690 - 00:57:23.320

L.X.: Yeah, that would be really cool. Taylor Gilkey: Yeah. Taylor Gilkey: I was telling them, for instance, like, Freshman Council, I was telling them, like, I actually started freshman council when I was Taylor Gilkey: Vice…

00:57:23.320 - 00:58:11.990

Taylor Gilkey: It was a bill I created when I was senator, because I was so scorned by not becoming a senator when I was a freshman. I was like, hey, we have all these people who are freshmen who want to be engaged and who are interested, that we then just turn away, that we could be, you know, helping them grow into club leaders, or just doing some level of, like, engagement with them. Taylor Gilkey: And again, there are people who, even just 4 or 5 years separated from me, that had no idea, like, why Freshman Council was made, or, Taylor Gilkey: you know, what the intention behind that was. So yeah, it's just really… It is so telling for me, too, of just, like, how quickly and easily you can lose, like, a history of a group. Taylor Gilkey: And it's a good reminder of why the work that you guys are doing is so important, so…

00:58:14.050 - 00:58:30.650

L.X.: Yeah, for sure. L.X.: Hopefully, hopefully the ball gets rolling soon on that, and L.X.: maybe they could see the importance of it. L.X.: I have one last question for you, which is, is there anyone else

00:58:30.770 - 00:59:15.870

L.X.: who you think would be a good person to reach out to for an oral history, or someone who is involved in Occupy Towson who may have, like, an experience that they would like to share? Taylor Gilkey: Yeah, so I don't know who all y'all have talked to other than the participants that you sent for the panel, but, definitely, Deb Moriarty, if she's interested, would be a great person to talk to. Taylor Gilkey: Terry… my gosh, what's her last name? Taylor Gilkey: I can email it to you. Why can't I think of her last name? But she was, she was also in Student Affairs at the time. Anyone working… Terry Hall. I don't know if I can get that out.

00:59:15.870 - 00:59:59.500

Taylor Gilkey: Terry Hall would be a good person to talk to. The other gap that I kind of noticed in representation on the panel was all the folks who were working in the CSD [Center for Student Diversity] at the time. Taylor Gilkey: They were really involved, and I think you might be able to get some good information, specifically from people no longer working at Towson. But I know Tammie still is at Towson, and she works in the CSD, Taylor Gilkey: and I'm gonna totally space on last names for this part, but, Santiago was the Director of the CSD at one time, he would be a good person. Taylor Gilkey: Joel, Anee, like, all those folks who are working in CSD. That officer that I mentioned to you, Kia.

00:59:59.500 - 01:00:38.300

Taylor Gilkey: I think she's no longer there, but could be a really good resource, because I think she saw, like, I think the public safety aspect of Occupy Towson, both from, like, a Taylor Gilkey: physical, in the moment, public safety perspective of the movement itself, but then also some of the demands that were made of them. Taylor Gilkey: Those would all be good Taylor Gilkey: folks to reach out to, and then obviously the people… It sounds like you've reached out to some administrative people already, as far as, Traevena and Marina, but, of course, if you could...

01:00:38.300 - 01:01:14.870

L.X.: [unintelligible] Taylor Gilkey: ...talk to Dr. Chandler, he'd be great, and Maggie Wright, she's the… Or… So, Maggie was Taylor Gilkey: vice provost, I think, at the time, and then when Dr. Chandler became acting president, she became acting provost, so she was, you know, monitoring a lot of those academic demands, so she would… She would be a good person, too, so… Taylor Gilkey: Oh, and then, and maybe Ashley can help me with this, but there's this woman, Jennifer, I have no idea what her last name is, but she was the president of University Senate at the time.

01:01:14.870 - 01:01:38.090

Todd-Diaz, Ashley: Jennifer Ballinger. Taylor Gilkey: Yes, thank you, thank you, Ashley. She would… I would personally be very interested in her perspective, of all the things, so, yeah. L.X.: Awesome. Well, thank you so much. That was a lot of names. L.X.: I do… I did see Santiago in my research,

01:01:38.580 - 01:01:52.260

L.X.: I couldn't find information on Tim Chandler, but, L.X.: yeah, I think that would be a really good oral history as well. Taylor Gilkey: Yeah. L.X.: Yeah, also, like, if you

01:01:52.490 - 01:02:14.050

L.X.: think of more people who might be good, feel free to, like, always send me an email. Taylor Gilkey: Your email, for sure, I'll send them to you. L.X.: And if, like, you think of anything else that, you know, L.X.: you want to talk about, you know, we could also do another oral history, or we could, add things to the landing page that we're kind of…

01:02:14.050 - 01:02:30.420

Taylor Gilkey: Excited to… L.X.: ...formulating and building. L.X.: Yeah. Taylor Gilkey: Really excited to see it, and I know Kurt and I, and we can talk more about… So, and tell me… So I know you're having the panel, what other… Are you doing any other programming around this?

01:02:31.110 - 01:02:50.870

L.X.: So we're doing the panel, and then we're doing the, exhibition. Taylor Gilkey: Oh, you are going to do an exhibition. L.X.: Yeah, it's digital, so the landing page with... L.X.: We're doing... Well, I'm specifically doing a couple different things with, like, mapping of relationships and also timeline.

01:02:51.060 - 01:03:04.440

L.X.: And then I've also, like, gathered a lot of photos and videos and L.X.: gone through social media and everything, so… Taylor Gilkey: Really looking forward to the photos and videos. L.X.: Yeah, yeah, there's some really good shots.

01:03:04.440 - 01:03:35.140

Taylor Gilkey: Yeah. In there, so… L.X.: Very exciting. Taylor Gilkey: Kurt and I were saying, too, and Kurt is on the alumni board, but if there is a way even that we can support, like, financially for any programming that you wanted to do, you know, we can talk more about that as well. I think having some sort of… I know you're going to do the panel as a hybrid, but I think having some sort of physical reception or gathering or something could be really awesome, so Taylor Gilkey: I'm happy to talk more about that as well.

01:03:36.240 - 01:03:54.840

L.X.: Yeah, that would be awesome. We've been kind of talking about having maybe a second panel. Taylor Gilkey: Yeah. L.X.: Like, maybe fully in person, or, you know, just having, like, more varied perspectives and voices. Taylor Gilkey: Cody Boteler, he… Yeah. Do you have him on your list?

01:03:55.010 - 01:04:01.280

L.X.: Yeah, we're talking to him in a couple weeks. Taylor Gilkey: Good, and he's another… He's a... L.X.: [unintelligible] Taylor Gilkey: He's a good one.

01:04:01.280 - 01:04:17.190

L.X.: Cool. Taylor Gilkey: Probably be able to remember a lot more, and probably has really good notes, and all the things. L.X.: I hope so. I hope it's a really insightful conversation, much like the one that we just had. I really appreciate L.X.: your time, and

01:04:17.190 - 01:04:35.090

L.X.: also, like, the work that you've done. L.X.: Even though you weren't, like, a primary organizer, you know, there's still, like, periphery roles that are L.X.: important, or just as important, so… Taylor Gilkey: And I guess I should add that, maybe just as a closing, is like, I mean,

01:04:35.760 - 01:05:28.520

Taylor Gilkey: I am really grateful for the experience, both on a personal level, both from Taylor Gilkey: how it really did shape and direct me in the work that I did when I was SGA president. I think that I would have just approached the whole year with Taylor Gilkey: definitely not the same sense of urgency, definitely not the same sense of accountability without that experience, and it informed and sort of just pushed us, I think, to work harder and just do more, and so Taylor Gilkey: I'm so grateful for the experience. It was personally, obviously, very challenging in the moment, and really stretched me. Like, really, really did stretch me as a… Like I… And not to say that age is a factor for everyone, but for me, as a 21-year-old,

01:05:28.520 - 01:06:31.390

Taylor Gilkey: it was just not where my mind was, and so… And just my lived experience was more limited than it was even a year or two or three years later, and so… Taylor Gilkey: And the other reason I bring up age, too, is because I think, especially as I got into the professional environment, people often saw my Taylor Gilkey: age, or my, like, year I graduated college, and made a lot of assumptions about what my lived experience was, and truly, because of the Occupy Towson experience, I felt like I was leaps and bounds ahead of… As far as even just, like, professional experience that some of my colleagues or coworkers had, and that came from, like, Taylor Gilkey: just the accountability and all the things that happened as a part of that experience. So, it's something that I'm grateful that I was a part of, and like I said, it's something that I'm really grateful that you guys are taking the time to reflect and document on. So, thank you guys for the work that you're doing.

01:06:33.020 - 01:07:00.750

L.X.: Absolutely, you're welcome. It's been really insightful for me as well, and I can imagine L.X.: how much of an impact it had on you, both personally and professionally. And thank you for sharing your perspective on it. L.X.: We really loved having you today. Taylor Gilkey: Thank you all. We did okay on time. Sorry for going a little bit over. I'm a talker.

01:07:02.160 - 01:07:24.910

L.X.: That's totally fine. Todd-Diaz, Ashley: Thank you very much. Taylor Gilkey: L.X., are you pursuing this kind of work professionally, or what kind of… How did you get involved in this? L.X.: Ooh. So I've been looking into getting into archival work for a couple years now, I would say. I'm a sociology major currently.

01:07:26.720 - 01:07:45.360

L.X.: But yeah, I originally applied for, like a… I think it was a media assistant, like, going through, like, older files and CDs, floppy disks, and media. L.X.: So I didn't get that job, but I did get offered, this job, which is… Taylor Gilkey: Very cool.