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Lindsay Waite: I am curious what… Lindsay Waite: I am curious about what this is for. It's for some sort of archive of graduates from Towson? Reyes, Leah: So, I'm an undergraduate student researcher. This is part of the Unearthing TU project where basically Towson students… Reyes, Leah: Well, I guess this summer's mission is focusing on female leader alumni, and so I decided to look into the Women's Aid Society, and because there wasn't a lot of information in the Towson archives, I wanted to gather as much research and oral interviews as I could so that

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Reyes, Leah: these female alumni could be recognized for their work. Lindsay Waite: Okay. Koot, Christian: I'll just say briefly, Ashley Todd-Diaz and I, my colleague, started this program Koot, Christian: five or six years ago, with the goal to better tell a full range of Towson stories that weren't necessarily captured in the archives, which tends to capture the view of

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Koot, Christian: student government, of administration, of presidents. So part of our mission has been hiring student researchers like Leah to do archival research and to conduct oral histories from alumni, from former faculty, from former staff. And this, as Leah said, this summer, we're focusing on female leaders in a variety of ways. Lindsay Waite: Okay. Lindsay Waite: Got it. Lindsay Waite: I did, Leah, go to law school two years, I believe, after graduating Towson, and, a group of us there did start the first women's law association at the University of Baltimore.

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Reyes, Leah: Wow. Lindsay Waite: So that kind of mission did continue, but the focus was different. For instance, Lindsay Waite: there were only urinals in the building, so we got a ladies' room designated and where they put in, they took the urinals out and put a normal toilet in. 'Cause in the old days, UB was all male or mostly all male anyway. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm.

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Lindsay Waite: I will let you continue. Reyes, Leah: Wow. Well, do you feel comfortable enough to start the interview? Lindsay Waite: Yes. If you don't mind me drinking water now then. Reyes, Leah: Oh, no worries.

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Reyes, Leah: Okay, so first I wanted to know, which I think we briefly covered, how are you? Lindsay Waite: Pretty good. Lindsay Waite: Pretty good. Just busy. Reyes, Leah: Yeah.

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Reyes, Leah: It's good to be busy. Lindsay Waite: Oh, I think so too, yeah. Reyes, Leah: When did you start at Towson State College, and when did you graduate? Lindsay Waite: I started in '67. I had been at Mary Washington for a year down in Virginia, which is now part of UVA. Didn't fit in there at all, so,

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Lindsay Waite: transferred to Towson, which was always within my line of sight, having grown up in the Towson area and having gone to Towson High School, and, you know, I had a few people that I knew that went there, and I just liked it. I just liked it, and it was a lot less expensive than the other place. So I started in Lindsay Waite: '67, September, and then Lindsay Waite: I was there for the first year. Sophomore year I became pregnant, so took off a year, and Lindsay Waite: didn't like the way I was treated as a pregnant young person, and returned, I had a really good mentor who talked me into returning in the summer of

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Lindsay Waite: 69. Yeah, I took off basically almost a whole year. I was there 67, 68, came back in the summer of 69, and believe it or not, I had to get permission to come back in. And then graduated in 71, Lindsay Waite: but then I returned and got a second bachelor's degree and then a master's degree. The second bachelor's was in the 90s, I believe, and I went at night, and the master's was... I finished it in 2004. Reyes, Leah: Oh, wow. That's amazing. Congratulations. Lindsay Waite: Well, I loved Towson, so…

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Reyes, Leah: Yeah. Lindsay Waite: My partner says it's the only school I ever speak positively of, Lindsay Waite: because the department chair was a mentor for me, and he was a big help. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm.

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Lindsay Waite: But I also loved most of the teachers and a lot of the classes as well. Reyes, Leah: Yeah. So what did you major in then? Lindsay Waite: Well, at Towson I majored in philosophy and music. Lindsay Waite: And then the music part was just sort of overwhelming for me. I had

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Lindsay Waite: difficulties in high school with alcohol, and then with college and all the 60s stuff. I'm not blaming it on that, but, you know, sort of got overly involved in the drug culture, but more importantly, in the peace movement. And it's interesting Lindsay Waite: that I looked through my archives for that because the father of my first daughter and I were both active in a group called Students for a Democratic Society. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Lindsay Waite: And after a while, we got to be friends again, and he passed away, and I'm about to take some of those archival documents

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Lindsay Waite: to his and his wife's service in two weeks. So his siblings want to see all the radical stuff he did back then, which was mostly we demonstrated and wrote our own little newsletter. Reyes, Leah: Yeah, do you think you could tell me more about the Students for a Democratic Society? Because I did see some stories, they would have protests, and some students would get arrested. Lindsay Waite: Right, well, back in those… It's funny, I do remember a lot about that. Lindsay Waite: Back in that day, the group started, I think, in Michigan, and it ended up splitting into two factions. One was pretty radical, and

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Lindsay Waite: proposed violent solutions, and we were the pacifist kind, and preferred demonstrating quietly, writing letters. We had our own little political newsletter. We would do speak-outs on the campus with Lindsay Waite: other, with usually Republican students, because there wasn't, like, an organized Lindsay Waite: equivalent to SDS at the time, and we got a little bit involved in labor union stuff downtown. Lindsay Waite: That kind of thing. And we actually have a picture in the yearbook of 1967 of... Michael's in it, you know, the father of of the first baby, and then me, and about six others. There was controversy.

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Lindsay Waite: And again, I'm a scrapbooker, so… And I only remember this because I have the articles, where we had applied for funding from Towson State, it was called back then, for joining the national group, and there was all this debate on campus about whether or not we should get it from the student government, and we did not. Lindsay Waite: We were considered too radical, even though Lindsay Waite: I don't think most of us were. A few people were, but... Reyes, Leah: Goodness, okay, so.

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Reyes, Leah: Did the group ever cover the topics of women's reproductive health or birth control, or was that just more the Women's Aid Society? Lindsay Waite: That was more the Women's Aid Society. Honestly, Lindsay Waite: there was no women's movement per se. Those of us, you know, in my age range, we knew stuff was wrong, but it was just accepted. Lindsay Waite: And no, the main focus was the Vietnam War and, as we hear today,

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Lindsay Waite: capitalists getting more strength and poor people being neglected. And also, regarding the Vietnam War, it was who was being sent to war, and it tended to be rural people, country people, Black people, because there was a college deferment. And even though we were all in college, you know, we didn't think that was right, that, you know, Lindsay Waite: people were being sent over who didn't have the same opportunity, basically as cannon fodder. And the war, I don't know how much you know about the Vietnam War, but in the end, it was a wrong thing to do. Finally, it was recognized by everybody, I think, by the mid-70s, but we were considered pretty Lindsay Waite: anti-patriotic back then. Reyes, Leah: Yeah.

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Lindsay Waite: In the end, we were right. Reyes, Leah: Yeah, I saw that there was draft counseling located in the same building that Reyes, Leah: the Women's Aid Society operated in, so you saw a little bit of that? Lindsay Waite: I was not part of that. I think that was guys advising guys.

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Reyes, Leah: Oh, okay. Lindsay Waite: Um, Lindsay Waite: well, by '71, I think there was the lottery system put into place where you just got a number and then the government called up to a certain number. I can't quite recall that, but yeah, it was guys advising guys, so I didn't have anything to do with that. Reyes, Leah: Got it. Okay. So my next question, what was the general campus attitude towards birth control?

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Lindsay Waite: Well, it was illegal back then. It was illegal unless you were a married woman. And I suppose condoms were always around. But a lot of us, it's a very different time than it was now, knew nothing about birth control. And until, I think it was '72, a Supreme Court decision. Lindsay Waite: Something like that. It was before Roe versus Wade, which was '73. So at that point, it was determined to be illegal to deny non-married females the right to get birth control. But there, like, in our Students for a Democratic Society group, there were two women friends. Lindsay Waite: One was named Louise. Oh, the other one is named Diane. Lindsay Waite: Who had access to birth control and it was like, wow. Well, one, I didn't really need birth control at the time, so it's nothing I even considered. But two, it was like they seemed so sophisticated. And I never asked them where they got it because I didn't think I would need it, so to speak. But it was sort of a — I don't know if they got it illegally,

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Lindsay Waite: because I talked to you about the People's Free Medical Clinic that didn't actually start 'til Lindsay Waite: probably '68, '69. I remember when it began. Reyes, Leah: Interesting. Reyes, Leah: So, did they have, like, the pill or an IUD, if you can remember?

00:10:07.170 - 00:10:22.860

Lindsay Waite: None of that, none of that was available at all, not until after '72. Lindsay Waite: Then birth control... Oh, you mean what were the people who were getting it? Reyes, Leah: Yeah, sorry. Lindsay Waite: It was just the pill. IUDs, I don't think happened

00:10:23.050 - 00:10:50.590

Lindsay Waite: then, Lindsay Waite: I think they were sort of experimental, and probably by maybe early 70s, but again, not accessible to someone legally, and that would require a doctor, and I don't think a doctor would... Lindsay Waite: Well, I don't know, because I didn't know anyone that had an IUD. You only heard about the pill. Reyes, Leah: Okay, so the pill had a bigger impact than the IUD.

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Lindsay Waite: Well to the Lindsay Waite: extent that it did, but it… Again, women and girls were… Lindsay Waite: I mean, for instance, I mean, I have granddaughters. Lindsay Waite: Things that go on now at a very young age just didn't happen back then, you know, it was a different time. There was no internet, the racy movies weren't part of the mainstream, that kind of thing. And I don't even mean racy, they would have been considered racy back then but it just was a different time and it wasn't...

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Lindsay Waite: You know, everyone idealizes the 50s and early 60s. No, it wasn't ideal, but sexuality wasn't sort of imbued Lindsay Waite: into the college experience, as far as I could tell, with me and my female friends, it was more, Lindsay Waite: you know, Lindsay Waite: a little bit later

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Lindsay Waite: than first year. Reyes, Leah: Got it. Lindsay Waite: Rarely high school, rarely high school back then. Reyes, Leah: So was it, I guess, more widely acceptable in the early 70s more than the late 60s?

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Lindsay Waite: Sexual behavior? Reyes, Leah: Yes. Lindsay Waite: As I understand it, yes. Lindsay Waite: And then particularly by the '80s. And birth control, of course, became readily available

00:12:09.840 - 00:12:21.920

Lindsay Waite: aand that kind of thing. Reyes, Leah: Got it. Reyes, Leah: Thank you. Lindsay Waite: I was married by '78, and my second daughter was born in '79. So I wasn't really,

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Lindsay Waite: you know, looking around after that. I don't know what happened in the eighties, nineties, and all that kind of thing. Reyes, Leah: Yeah, no worries. So how did you find out about the Women's Aid Society? Lindsay Waite: Well, I started… Feminism was in its early birth and... Lindsay Waite: Oh, there was one book I read.

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Lindsay Waite: In fact, Towson had its first women's history class in 1970, Lindsay Waite: I believe. It might have been early '71 because I graduated in December of '71. And actually, it's funny that I remember the teacher. I took a lot of history as well because I love history, and I pay a lot of attention to it even now. But Fred Rivers was the teacher, but it was eye-opening. So by the late '60s, a lot of women were Lindsay Waite: starting to see the commonality Lindsay Waite: in what was wrong, and starting to protest about it. And I think Gloria Steinem and,

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Lindsay Waite: I can't remember the politician's name anymore, but people were starting to speak out more. And one of them was the right to control your own body. And there was a book called Our Bodies, Ourselves. Reyes, Leah: Yes. Lindsay Waite: And I think that came out around then. And it just, you know, it was things that you never talked about, ever. And all of a sudden, you could read, you know, and talk to people if you wanted to. Lindsay Waite: So things, you know, I think the 60s made, aside from the drug component, I think it did make people think outside their little realm of

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Lindsay Waite: comfort and realize there were all kinds of different people, you know, and, Lindsay Waite: you know, sex was probably somewhat talked about a little more openly than it ever had been before. Lindsay Waite: But it's still, you know. So in terms of birth control, Lindsay Waite: the Women's Aid Society, I don't know how I got notice of it, to be perfectly honest. I became pregnant, I dropped out of school, I was coerced into adoption, but I realized many years later it was the right thing to do, because I was not capable of being

00:14:33.740 - 00:15:16.540

Lindsay Waite: a mother back then, and I did find her when she was 18, and her adoptive mother was really good, and said... Her name's Jenny. "Jenny's going through some stuff, let's wait another year." So, you know, we had a really good relationship for a long time. This sort of drifted away when Lindsay Waite: she started getting involved in drugs and things herself, and her father and I and his wife were trying to say, Jenny, you know, on both sides of the family, don't do this, so she cut us off for a while, but then she's back now, but Lindsay Waite: my point was I became very tuned in Lindsay Waite: to how important birth control was and

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Lindsay Waite: I can't recall how I learned about the Women's Aid Society. I did... I'm always a reader. I was doing a lot of writing even back then, and Lindsay Waite: I'm sure... It's funny, because I'm thinking that Jo person might be someone I knew. Lindsay Waite: If she remembered my "maiden" name was Schlottman. Lindsay Waite: But somehow I was in a circle of people that got involved in that. And then it involved... I did remember after you reminded me that we did have a room. And back then, the president lived on campus.

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Reyes, Leah: Oh. Lindsay Waite: And I forget his last name, but it was, oh, Jim Fisher. Oh, the brain, pretty amazing. And there were little offices and things there, and we got access to a room there. And there was also, as I recall, like counseling services for just, you know, psychological type stuff. And I think there was… Lindsay Waite: I think the health service was there, and birth control was still illegal, but by then... I can't speak to Planned Parenthood. I don't know what their official policy was, but the Baltimore Free Medical Clinic was available. It's down at Green Mountain 32nd. It lasted a number of years, and it was all people volunteering. Lindsay Waite: So, the men who worked, I guess, were just talking to the other men about, you know,

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Lindsay Waite: condoms. I mean, there was nothing else back then. I don't think there is... Well, I've heard there's a male birth control pill being Lindsay Waite: researched. And then Lindsay Waite: I recall going down to the free clinic with people to talk to the doctors and nurses there, and it was private, but I suspect it related to Lindsay Waite: birth control,

00:17:02.050 - 00:17:22.450

Lindsay Waite: and I know in one instance abortion. Lindsay Waite: But yeah, so that was a source and I don't know what other sources there were. Maybe Planned Parenthood did it on the side, but it was a... I can't, I shouldn't have even said that because I don't know. I never asked Louise and Diane, where did you get... Maybe they got it from their own private doctors actually. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Lindsay Waite: So...

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Reyes, Leah: Okay, so was this mainly in the fall of '71 that you were active in this club? Lindsay Waite: Well, I… Lindsay Waite: That's something I can't remember. I don't think it was just a few months. Do you have the start date? Was it 71? Because I thought it was 70-71. Reyes, Leah: I have the start date of fall of October,

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Reyes, Leah: 1970. I guess I could build some context around that time. Bill Baird came to campus in October of 1970, and he just had a lecture about abortion and birth control. Reyes, Leah: That next year, Gloria Steinem did come to campus and also had a lecture about the women's lib movement. Did either of those falls ring a bell? Lindsay Waite: No, no, Bill Baird does more than Gloria Steinem. Lindsay Waite: I did… I was extremely depressed after losing my daughter. Dr. Eberhardt sort of held my hand, he was the philosophy chair, and I got through classes okay. But, I probably… I'm thinking Bill Baird's presence rings a bell, and that's probably what got me inspired to help out other

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Lindsay Waite: women and girls with, you know, Lindsay Waite: figuring out what to do so they didn't lose Lindsay Waite: something, or have to make a terrible choice of having an abortion. Reyes, Leah: Got it. Another, big event that might…

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Lindsay Waite: I'm not saying that's terrible, by the way. I'm not saying abortion is terrible. Reyes, Leah: Oh, yeah, of course, I hear you. Lindsay Waite: I think it's just a hard decision to make. Lindsay Waite: It's not the one that I chose, but I understand why people do.

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Reyes, Leah: Did you remember the Richard Kirstel exhibit by chance? Lindsay Waite: Not at all. Reyes, Leah: It's not very important, just if it would maybe bring any memories back. It was this Reyes, Leah: photographer was just bringing his

00:19:15.160 - 00:19:36.920

Reyes, Leah: art on campus, and James Fisher Reyes, Leah: got him arrested for trespassing because he wasn't supposed to be there or he was but... Reyes, Leah: I don't know, I read about it in the paper, just to see if it would jog your memory. I could also read some of the members of the founding years, and then the years after, if that would help? Lindsay Waite: Mm hm.

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Lindsay Waite: Yeah, that's interesting. I know I wasn't a founder. I would not have been in any leadership position back then. Reyes, Leah: No worries. Lindsay Waite: But I believed in the cause. Reyes, Leah: Yeah.

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Reyes, Leah: And this list definitely isn't complete because I know volunteers joined throughout, but hopefully you'll recognize some of the names. So I mentioned Juanita Jo Matkins, David Cohen, Richard Golden, Hollis Toal, Patricia Vermillion. Reyes, Leah: And then the following year, which is how I found your name, Richard King, Patricia Vermillion, Leah Bogusko, David Cohen, Susan Rowe, Hollis Toal, Chris Edward Voelker, and David Zimbauer. Lindsay Waite: Hollis Toll's name definitely rings a bell. Reyes, Leah: Oh, okay.

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Reyes, Leah: And I heard that they did work with a Kenneth S. Russell. Reyes, Leah: Doctor Russell, he was the director of the Reyes, Leah: Counseling Center. Lindsay Waite: Okay.

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Reyes, Leah: But no worries if you don't remember, because I'm getting a lot of information from, like, a couple different timelines. Lindsay Waite: Well, and again, there was a lot of depression. I don't know if I was on antidepressants back then. I probably was. And then, honestly, between Lindsay Waite: graduating college and law school, I really got into drinking, because I knew that using drugs wasn't a good idea if I was seriously thinking of going to law school, which, at the time, I was telling my boyfriend he should go, and then after I kicked him out, because he was sort of Lindsay Waite: not too interested in working back then,

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Lindsay Waite: I said, why aren't I thinking of going to law school? And that was very profound for me back then. Only 5% of us were female, and it was pretty hard back then. Reyes, Leah: Yeah. Lindsay Waite: Why do I keep going to the side, I don't know. Reyes, Leah: (laughs)

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Lindsay Waite: I keep shifting to the right. So, Lindsay Waite: no, I've... And truthfully, I've always been somewhat of an activist in school, even in high school. Lindsay Waite: Well, I can't say junior high or elementary, but particularly in law school, I like being involved on community stuff and anything that has to do with fairness. And the issue on birth control was it's just not fair that we can't legally have access, but there are resources out there. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. So, did the Women's Aid Society, if you remember, work with the Women's Liberation Group on campus?

00:22:11.090 - 00:22:28.060

Lindsay Waite: I'm not aware there was one. When did that start? Reyes, Leah: I saw some clippings about it in the newspaper from '70 to '71, but I haven't been able to find any concrete information about it. Lindsay Waite: Okay. Lindsay Waite: Because I think the Students for a Democratic Society...

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Lindsay Waite: I know that when I came back, it seems like it sort of dissipated. I'm not sure. I know that both Michael, who was Jenny's father, and I, we both had emotional issues from just going through all that. Lindsay Waite: I don't know, I know the war, there were still protests, because I have articles of the ones we went to, but I'm not sure how strong SDS remained Lindsay Waite: after that first fervent year and second year, maybe. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm.

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Lindsay Waite: And the women's liberation movement, I'm surprised to hear it was there that early. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Okay, so do you think you can describe the mission of the Women's Aid Society? Lindsay Waite: Well, Lindsay Waite: to me the focus was on birth control and supporting women, and I don't recall that I ever

00:23:25.600 - 00:23:52.690

Lindsay Waite: came across a pregnant college student, which might have been really hard for me, but I think I was there knowing that I could help that person. Not give advice, but at least get them in the hands of folks to help figure out what to do. Lindsay Waite: Because abortion, again, was illegal, and now it's become illegal, mostly, in America, again, except for a few states. Reyes, Leah: Yep. Lindsay Waite: And that's a hard, you know…

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Lindsay Waite: It's not a simple decision, and there's so many factors that come into play. So just... Lindsay Waite: Yes. Lindsay Waite: I do. And the gay movement was just getting its foot in the door, too. I can't remember when Lindsay Waite: there was that protest at that bar in

00:24:13.740 - 00:24:56.940

Lindsay Waite: New York called Stone something. But yeah, I mean, a lot of things are happening. The Black Power movement, I recall. Lindsay Waite: I ran for Lindsay Waite: office to be on the Democratic Central Committee or something as a supporter of a candidate named Shirley Chisholm, who was the first Black woman who ever ran. And I just came across my donor list yesterday, that was sort of funny. So I think Lindsay Waite: my angle was, at Towson, I could help out, I couldn't be in charge, but I know that it related to birth control and women's health, which, it's getting better now, but back then it was fairly neglected.

00:24:56.940 - 00:25:15.020

Reyes, Leah: Yeah. Lindsay Waite: And back then, most people thought women went to college to get married, and boy, did I get that a lot in law school. And I did not marry a lawyer, by the way. Reyes, Leah: So, what exactly was your role in the Women's Aid Society? Lindsay Waite: Just as a counselor.

00:25:15.020 - 00:25:29.300

Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Lindsay Waite: I wasn't an organizer or anything that I recall. Reyes, Leah: Okay. Lindsay Waite: It would be interesting, I'm not saying to set it up, but it would be interesting for those of us there to talk about it because it might jog other memories as well.

00:25:29.950 - 00:25:45.230

Lindsay Waite: You know, just Jo's name and Hollis' names do ring bells, so. Reyes, Leah: Yeah, I do have both of their contact information if you'd be interested. Lindsay Waite: I'll think about it. Reyes, Leah: But we can get into that later. Did you receive any training for being a counselor?

00:25:45.230 - 00:26:04.140

Lindsay Waite: Yes, there was some sort of training that I remember. Lindsay Waite: Um... Lindsay Waite: From whom? Lindsay Waite: I'm not sure. I know there were guidelines of what we could and couldn't do. I don't remember the details, sorry. I mean, you are talking about… How long ago was that? 40, 50, 55?

00:26:04.430 - 00:26:08.980

Lindsay Waite: 55 years ago. Reyes, Leah: Yeah, it's been a while. Lindsay Waite: 55 years ago. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm.

00:26:13.860 - 00:27:02.210

Reyes, Leah: So what did the training look like? I'd imagine you'd be reading Our Bodies, Ourselves, but was there anything else you did in addition? Lindsay Waite: I'm sure that although technically we were adults, those of us that were 21, I'm sure that there was a someone from the counseling service that Lindsay Waite: told us we're not psychologists, that we had to refer. I'm just speculating now, though, that's the thing. That it was simply, these are the facts kind of stuff. I think we had, like, flyers and brochures, maybe. Reyes, Leah: I've heard about pamphlets and small excerpts of Our Bodies, Ourselves being included, but I never got a full picture of what else was in the pamphlet beyond

00:27:02.320 - 00:27:11.950

Reyes, Leah: the excerpt from that book. Lindsay Waite: Mm hm. Reyes, Leah: So, okay. Reyes, Leah: And I heard it was more of a volunteer basis, was…

00:27:11.950 - 00:27:24.980

Lindsay Waite: Definitely volunteer. Reyes, Leah: Yeah, and it was mostly student-ran from what I've gathered. Lindsay Waite: That I do remember. Maybe under the auspices of the counseling service. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm.

00:27:24.980 - 00:27:54.710

Lindsay Waite: And I don't know, the counselor there may have been a psychologist, it might have been a licensed clinical social worker. I'm not sure who ran those sorts of services for people that Lindsay Waite: just were at loose ends or whatever. I should have probably... I probably did go myself, actually. I don't... Yeah, I can't remember. Reyes, Leah: That's okay. So can you tell me what it was like if I was a student coming into Reyes, Leah: the rear entrance of Glen Esk to meet with the Women's Aid Society?

00:27:56.580 - 00:28:12.290

Lindsay Waite: Just to try to make the person comfortable and find out what you were looking for Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Lindsay Waite: and that sort of thing. I've always been pretty good at talking to people, Lindsay Waite: and I've been told that over the years, and

00:28:13.020 - 00:28:27.260

Lindsay Waite: I guess just to make people comfortable so they would, you know, know that everything was confidential, that I do remember, and what exactly did they need, and my guess would be Lindsay Waite: birth control information. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Lindsay Waite: Um...

00:28:27.760 - 00:28:44.790

Lindsay Waite: I'm wondering if we saw any people about STDs. I don't think so. Lindsay Waite: I don't remember learning a whole lot about that. I imagine that was the health Lindsay Waite: part of the health services offered by Towson. So I think it was primarily birth control. Reyes, Leah: Oh, okay.

00:28:44.790 - 00:28:54.730

Lindsay Waite: Are there other perspectives of the other people? Reyes, Leah: Of some of the duties? Reyes, Leah: Or, sorry, how the operations would go? Lindsay Waite: Uh-huh.

00:28:54.730 - 00:29:15.070

Reyes, Leah: I heard from Ms. Matkins that it was… Well, also from Ms. Bogusko. Lindsay Waite: Yes. Reyes, Leah: Very emotional. A lot of Reyes, Leah: primarily women, or they said they never really saw men come in, but young women would come in, and they'd be crying and very misinformed on

00:29:15.180 - 00:29:39.310

Reyes, Leah: what was going on in their body and they would be given Reyes, Leah: information but mostly like a shoulder to cry on about if they were pregnant or... Reyes, Leah: I heard a story that one lady thought she was pregnant, but didn't fully understand her anatomy. Reyes, Leah: And so, I think… What I've gathered is it was just a big hand-holding process.

00:29:39.310 - 00:29:53.200

Lindsay Waite: Yeah, it rings a vague bell. Lindsay Waite: Uh... Lindsay Waite: But again, maybe my memory is skewed towards birth control because I do remember going down to that free clinic a few times. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm.

00:29:53.200 - 00:30:19.810

Lindsay Waite: And then driving someone somewhere else, so… Reyes, Leah: Okay, so you would do birth control referrals, not really abortion referrals, you said that was... Lindsay Waite: No, we would take them to where we knew they could get birth control and could talk confidentially with a doctor or nurse if they were making another choice. I'm suspecting, just like there's always been historically Lindsay Waite: ways that doctors would perform abortions

00:30:19.860 - 00:31:00.760

Lindsay Waite: not in accordance with the law. And back in the old days you would see films that talked about women going to Sweden or some of the Scandinavian countries, those who were rich. Lindsay Waite: But then, you know, all the back alley abortions that generally poor women would perform, or very young women, Lindsay Waite: that was something, you know, not advised. And I, Lindsay Waite: you know, I just can't recall any specific conversation. So it sounds like... It's not surprising to me that the women and girls were upset. Because, yeah, especially when you're starting college, you really don't want it

00:31:00.860 - 00:31:23.610

Lindsay Waite: sidetracked like that, and I worked my way through college, so there was little involvement of the parents in that, Lindsay Waite: but, Lindsay Waite: so I didn't have any financial… It wasn't a financial thing, and I was fortunate when I came back, Lindsay Waite: I got a job on campus and a small student loan.

00:31:23.620 - 00:32:07.950

Lindsay Waite: And so I was able to make ends meet that way. So I didn't have that same situation, for instance, as people that were supported fully by their parents, and especially the girls. I mean, Michael's family was very different than mine, and of course he was the guy, so he didn't have to (laughs) Lindsay Waite: But we did agree for us that abortion wasn't the way. It's something my parents wanted. Lindsay Waite: And actually, there was a clause in the law that if it was dangerous to the mother's health or the baby's health, you could get an abortion. And my parents took me to a doc, even though they were divorced, that's probably the only thing they ever agreed on. Lindsay Waite: To certify me that way, and it was, and I just said, I don't care, I'm not doing it.

00:32:07.950 - 00:32:13.880

Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Lindsay Waite: You know, that kind of thing. Lindsay Waite: It just... Reyes, Leah: Interesting.

00:32:13.880 - 00:32:31.170

Lindsay Waite: It didn't feel like the right thing. Reyes, Leah: I know they were expensive back then, so did the Women's Aid Society ever help allocate funds for birth control or abortion referrals? Lindsay Waite: I doubt that highly because it's a public school and it would have been against the law. Reyes, Leah: Yeah.

00:32:31.170 - 00:32:53.240

Lindsay Waite: It was a state school. So, yeah, in both instances it was illegal, so there wouldn't have been any way to do that Lindsay Waite: legally. Lindsay Waite: So I don't know. Again, I don't know what went on behind closed doors at that clinic, but Lindsay Waite: it was free, and I don't know who funded it.

00:32:53.400 - 00:33:15.860

Reyes, Leah: Okay. Lindsay Waite: So money was not quite as tight, certainly, as it is now. Reyes, Leah: Yeah. Lindsay Waite: And it was a mission. It was a mission to serve poor people. I mean, healthcare then was problematic, and it's still problematic, not quite in the same way, because there was no... Well, I won't get into that whole thing, but it was problematic. So it

00:33:16.390 - 00:33:47.000

Lindsay Waite: was set in a place that was accessible by poor people and college students, and that's probably who used it. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. So the relationship between these birth control clinics that Reyes, Leah: you would occasionally take members to, or members of your group would take their clients to. Was there, like, Reyes, Leah: a concrete relationship with these clinics or did you just, like, know exactly where to go?

00:33:47.350 - 00:34:01.110

Lindsay Waite: I was directed one time to take someone somewhere else, and I did know it was for an abortion. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Lindsay Waite: I hope there's a statute of limitations on that because I imagine I was breaking the law too. Reyes, Leah: (laughs)

00:34:01.110 - 00:34:22.730

Lindsay Waite: That was just one time, and I don't remember the source of information. Reyes, Leah: Got it. Interesting. Okay. I do have a name of a doctor as well, if that might ring a bell, but I know it's also a reach. Ms. Matkins mentioned a Dr. Trimble. Lindsay Waite: Hmm, it does sound familiar. Reyes, Leah: Oh, okay, well,

00:34:22.870 - 00:34:42.780

Reyes, Leah: we'll see how that settles. I also wanted to ask… Reyes, Leah: I've read that the Women's Aid Society did their best to advocate for a birth control clinic on campus. Did you have any part in that? Lindsay Waite: That was probably after I left. They couldn't have had it until that Supreme Court decision in 72. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm.

00:34:42.780 - 00:35:05.980

Lindsay Waite: And as I think about it, well, I don't know. Supreme Court decisions, I think, generally are in June, May and June. Sometimes they're at different times, but it probably wasn't until June of '72, so I was long gone by then. Reyes, Leah: Oh, okay, thats right. Lindsay Waite: I left in December of 71, and I started law school in August of '73. So... Reyes, Leah: Mm hm.

00:35:07.740 - 00:35:38.990

Lindsay Waite: It was not legal until June of '72. So probably after that, and I'm sure they're there now. Reyes, Leah: Yeah, so there was a Goucher Planned Parenthood in '72, but Roe v. Wade was passed in January of 1973, and in the fall of 1973, a Planned Parenthood contracted by Towson on campus opened. Lindsay Waite: Okay. Reyes, Leah: So, what effect do you think the Women's Aid Society had on campus?

00:35:40.020 - 00:36:25.040

Lindsay Waite: Well, for those who knew about it, and I don't know, maybe it was in the Towerlight or something, it certainly was a hand out. I would have loved to have had a hand out in my situation, Lindsay Waite: you know, just to have someone to talk to would have been good, and who wasn't, you know, like a parent, and like another man who wasn't… I mean, we've had a lot of talks, and as he was Lindsay Waite: getting really ill, I visited him with my granddaughters and my daughter, and he said in front of them, you know, I know I didn't want to work back then, so there was something weird in the air about guys in the 60s Lindsay Waite: where it was sort of like, I don't want to be part of the system.

00:36:25.160 - 00:36:34.580

Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Lindsay Waite: But having been… Lindsay Waite: Having to really be on my own for so long, you know, I knew that that wasn't realistic. Reyes, Leah: Yeah.

00:36:34.580 - 00:37:12.990

Lindsay Waite: You know, Lindsay Waite: and I think the ones I know that did that came from homes where their parents would support them. Anyway, it just wasn't, you know, there wasn't a whole lot of maturity there. But no, I like that he said that in front Lindsay Waite: of our daughter and then the granddaughters, because these, like, my granddaughters are 23 and 27. They have no clue Lindsay Waite: how repressive it was back then. And also, you know, I was terribly ashamed. If you've ever read The Scarlet Letter, that's really... You know, women felt that it was their fault. And

00:37:13.150 - 00:37:45.050

Lindsay Waite: I don't think that's true anymore, Lindsay Waite: that women feel it's their fault if they get pregnant, you know. It's a two-way street, but back then there was a lot of shame. So that was... Lindsay Waite: Again, I don't have a solid memory, but that certainly would have been a motivation for me to help work on that issue. Lindsay Waite: And then the women's law group, you know, there weren't many practicing women attorneys back then. And that was also, you know,

00:37:45.130 - 00:38:29.790

Lindsay Waite: putting ourselves forward. And now I hear there are more women in medical school than men, and that law school is definitely more 50-50 plus more diverse in terms of other ethnicities and race as well. It's very different from when I went. There were two black students, and they both became judges, Lindsay Waite: you know, and I loved... I did love practicing in Baltimore. I had other functions as a lawyer, too, but it was sort of fun to see your friends work their way up the system and, Lindsay Waite: you know, I was offered some opportunities. Not for that, but I just didn't want... I always like litigation, like court stuff. Lindsay Waite: I like that part. Once I got good at it, not at the beginning. It was scary.

00:38:29.790 - 00:38:53.340

Reyes, Leah: (laughs) I can imagine. Lindsay Waite: Then you get really good at it. Yeah. And you're a great interviewer, by the way. You're really keeping me on point when I digress. Reyes, Leah: Oh, no, thank you! This is my third interview, so it's definitely been a learning curve. But you're a great interviewee, you're giving me so much information. You remember a lot more than you give yourself credit for. Lindsay Waite: Well, yeah, you're putting me back in a time and...

00:38:53.740 - 00:39:12.750

Lindsay Waite: What I found from that time period was other than the stuff about Students for a Democratic Society, were... (laughs) Lindsay Waite: Yep, a lot of sad poetry Lindsay Waite: and writing about stereotypes. Lindsay Waite: Yeah, it was hard. It was a hard time.

00:39:12.930 - 00:39:30.060

Reyes, Leah: Mmm. Reyes, Leah: So, was visiting the Women's Aid Society, did students feel like it was an open resource, or was there an air of shame about it? Lindsay Waite: No, I don't think there was any shame. And people could walk. And yeah, you're reminding me, it was called Glen Oak. Glen Oak? Reyes, Leah: Glen Esk.

00:39:30.060 - 00:39:51.190

Lindsay Waite: Glen Esk. People could Lindsay Waite: walk in there for a variety of reasons, so I think sometimes even the president made himself available, like, a few hours one day a week, so… No, there was no shame in walking into that building. Reyes, Leah: Wow. Lindsay Waite: Honestly, probably by senior year, junior year, people were sexually active.

00:39:52.550 - 00:40:12.480

Lindsay Waite: It's just a good thing that the law finally changed, and when you think about how ridiculous the law was to begin with... Lindsay Waite: It's just puritanism brought to modern times, you know, all the way to 1972. Lindsay Waite: It's pretty weird. Reyes, Leah: It is. I heard from Jo Matkins that

00:40:13.120 - 00:40:39.190

Reyes, Leah: there was some relations between some doctors who would help, Reyes, Leah: I don't know if prescribe is the right word, abortions on the basis that a mother's mental health was at stake? Lindsay Waite: Yeah. That was the law, actually. The mother's mental health or Lindsay Waite: the child's safety, you know, similar, although you didn't have all the genetic testing you have now, either. So.

00:40:40.090 - 00:40:56.530

Lindsay Waite: Yeah. Reyes, Leah: Interesting, wow, what a different time, and I was thinking it's... As you were talking about that Reyes, Leah: man who didn't want to work, he sounds like he was really coming out of the beat movement. Lindsay Waite: Yeah, sort of that attitude. I mean, it was very…

00:40:56.570 - 00:41:46.450

Lindsay Waite: We were very… It's so funny, we were very anti-establishment back then, very anti-establishment, like, somehow, like, I had a group of friends Lindsay Waite: that moved to Kentucky to start a commune that was a farm and they thought they could just live off the land and all that and I visited them a few times it ended up being really hard work and ultimately they leased their farms out to a tobacco farmer to get money, I mean, they really, really struggled, so you know we like to think we can Lindsay Waite: break free of all the norms that are imposed on us, and it's different now, it's, it's not quite as Lindsay Waite: conformist as it was back then, but it's a hard thing to do. I'm not going to work for the man. I remember hearing that quite a bit, and I thought, well, I'm putting myself through school. I have to work for the man. (laughs)

00:41:47.470 - 00:42:15.410

Lindsay Waite: And then I borrowed $2,000 from the feds, which was cheap as a student loan. I mean, tuition back then was really low, like, Lindsay Waite: maybe 800 a year. Reyes, Leah: Oh my gosh. Lindsay Waite: I know, and even dorms were inexpensive, but I still had to borrow on top of the part-time work. And I remember talking to another philosophy professor, I said, "I feel like I'm copping out because I'm getting money from the federal government. You know, we hate the federal government."

00:42:17.240 - 00:42:56.990

Lindsay Waite: And, you know, and he goes, "Oh, don't worry, you know, they won't make that much money out of you, and you'll be paying it back, and they'll be getting less than you borrowed because of inflation." But stuff like that. We had very… Lindsay Waite: As 17, 18, 19 year olds, we had very strict rules for ourselves, Lindsay Waite: you know. And it's like I said, as you get older, you get Lindsay Waite: smarter. And I worked for state government, I worked briefly for federal government, and all the disrespect I had for government, I learned… And also law school. You learn a lot in law school about...

00:42:58.650 - 00:43:19.840

Lindsay Waite: Nothing is black and white, and everything... Lindsay Waite: To settle, you usually need to compromise. And then as you get older, you really see that. And most of the government workers I've worked with, or had interactions with as a citizen, Lindsay Waite: do really good jobs, and I… So now I'm on the side of, you know, that's so disrespectful. Lindsay Waite: Like, just…

00:43:20.070 - 00:43:40.270

Lindsay Waite: Getting rid... And now there's concerns today about the CDC cuts and all this poisoning that's going on from the raw fruits and vegetables. Lindsay Waite: So those of us that were on that other side aren't there anymore. Lindsay Waite: And I did pay my student loan back in 10 years. Reyes, Leah: Oh, wow. Good on you.

00:43:40.270 - 00:43:49.960

Lindsay Waite: It wasn't much. Lindsay Waite: Even then it didn't seem like a lot. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Reyes, Leah: Well, I'm happy that at least helped you a little bit at that time.

00:43:49.960 - 00:44:25.350

Lindsay Waite: Oh, absolutely. I got through school and then I went to law school at night so I wouldn't have to pay, Lindsay Waite: you know, have those awful loans, and then when I went back for the second bachelor's degree, and then the master's, which were in communications, and then the master's was more focused on film studies and film writing and that kind of thing. I paid for it as I went, so I'm fortunate that I could. Lindsay Waite: And I really, you know, I have a lot of respect and value for what I learned, and Lindsay Waite: I have fond feelings for the school. It's hard for me to call it Towson University. My sister went there, my nephew went there.

00:44:25.900 - 00:44:36.340

Lindsay Waite: So it's a good place. Reyes, Leah: Yeah, I love attending here. I didn't think I would Reyes, Leah: love it so much, but it's provided me with so many opportunities. Lindsay Waite: Yeah, yeah.

00:44:36.340 - 00:45:00.320

Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Lindsay Waite: Oh, and my husband went there. He went back to school to get certified to teach. I forgot about him. Oh. Reyes, Leah: That's amazing. It was a teacher's college first, too. Lindsay Waite: Exactly. You could go up until, I think, '70 or '71. If you agreed to teach for two years, you could go for free. So what I was going to do with philosophy, I didn't know, but it was very helpful with law school because you read a lot of dry material.

00:45:00.710 - 00:45:20.620

Lindsay Waite: And music, Lindsay Waite: sometimes I regret the choice I made to put that on the back burner. I still have a piano right over there, but sometimes I think I would have been a really good sound engineer, but people don't, you know, women and girls were not encouraged to do any kind of engineering back then. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Lindsay Waite: So.

00:45:21.300 - 00:45:47.650

Lindsay Waite: You're learning a lot about the distant past. Reyes, Leah: No, I love it! It's amazing for the scope of my project. But I was also wondering, so, you had slight trouble with funds with your personal college journey. I was wondering if the Women's Aid Society had any trouble with funds, or Reyes, Leah: what other difficulties they might have faced. Lindsay Waite: Well, I think we were all volunteers.

00:45:48.020 - 00:46:34.150

Lindsay Waite: Mm hm. Lindsay Waite: Probably we got, because the cause was a good one, probably we got student government funding to print those brochures and things. I don't remember that we had to do any kind of fundraising or anything like that. Lindsay Waite: So, and it was, you know, it was pretty, yeah, I'm almost remembering where we were now in terms of the building, but it was a pretty... Lindsay Waite: It was public service oriented. So, you know, I'm sure that everyone really knew in their hearts and brains that it was an organization that was needed, and especially since birth control still was not legal. There was the rhythm method which no one really understood, the condoms, and, you know, just being lucky or not.

00:46:34.500 - 00:46:54.110

Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Reyes, Leah: So you were wondering where it was located. I do have two possible locations. I think it may have started in the Anita S. Dowell building and then moved to Glen Esk. Reyes, Leah: But I'm also speculating. Lindsay Waite: I don't know where the Dowell Building is.

00:46:54.110 - 00:47:10.090

Reyes, Leah: It was described as being west from Glen Esk, the nice Reyes, Leah: kind of Victorian style home, Reyes, Leah: and Anita Dowell was, like, a brick building, Reyes, Leah: if that rings any bells.

00:47:10.880 - 00:47:25.960

Lindsay Waite: No, I'm remembering mostly Glen Esk, to be honest. Reyes, Leah: Yeah, I thought it moved to Glen Esk in '71, but it's just like putting a puzzle together. Lindsay Waite: Well, and maybe I was only involved for that one year. Reyes, Leah: Mmm.

00:47:25.960 - 00:47:36.890

Lindsay Waite: I don't know if I was on the 70 list. Reyes, Leah: I did not see your name, but I know the list may have changed. Lindsay Waite: I probably started in '71. Reyes, Leah: Okay.

00:47:37.210 - 00:48:24.620

Lindsay Waite: I would have seen a light at the end of the tunnel in terms of graduating, and it seems to me when I came back to school Lindsay Waite: I was only taking 12 credits a semester. So that was not a heavy load at all, especially since I write fairly easily, and I like to read even with... And the pot thing was not every day. It was more of a weekend thing. But Lindsay Waite: I've always been a pretty good student, but then when I came back the two times, I think I got all A's. It's a lot easier when you're an adult and you're clear-headed. I've been in recovery from alcohol since 1984, so I went back, I think, in '91 or '92, and then like '99 or something to get the master's, Lindsay Waite: because I always like to learn. And then I've been studying Spanish a long time,

00:48:25.050 - 00:48:47.220

Lindsay Waite: and then doing a little bit of teaching of English and Spanish, and working with people going to their citizenship hearings, working with them in Spanish and English. Reyes, Leah: Yeah, I've seen your website. It's amazing. You're very busy. Lindsay Waite: Yeah. Reyes, Leah: So I was also wondering, was there a faculty response or was there any help?

00:48:48.690 - 00:49:13.890

Lindsay Waite: We must have had a faculty advisor. Were we in the yearbook? Reyes, Leah: So, that was… Reyes, Leah: I think that's why there might not be a lot of archival record alongside, because you guys did very sensitive work, I didn't see Reyes, Leah: you guys explicitly in the yearbook as, like, one of the clubs or societies, but there was, like, a picture of, like,

00:49:14.120 - 00:49:41.840

Reyes, Leah: your mission from a newspaper clipping, just, like, Reyes, Leah: in the yearbook somewhere, but there wasn't an obvious list of Reyes, Leah: members, or how the Women's Aid Society established. Lindsay Waite: It could be because of the confidential nature of it. It's funny, because Students for a Democratic Society, which was considered pretty radical, even though we were the peaceful

00:49:41.840 - 00:50:07.490

Lindsay Waite: branch, but we were in the yearbook and we had an advisor named Henry Chen who was a physics professor and so we're all, I know we made fun of having our picture taken but we were all in the picture and, you know, Henry was standing by our side, so I'm sure we had a faculty advisor it might have been one of the health professionals or Lindsay Waite: science person or, you know, a counselor. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Lindsay Waite: Psychologist or something.

00:50:07.490 - 00:50:18.260

Reyes, Leah: I do have the picture of the SDS yearbook photo, if you would like me to pass it along, by the way. Lindsay Waite: Oh, no, I have it. I have that yearbook. Reyes, Leah: Okay, perfect. Lindsay Waite: And I made some prints for

00:50:18.650 - 00:50:40.440

Lindsay Waite: the service I'm going to next week for his siblings. Yeah. And I pulled out all these little articles and things Lindsay Waite: that I saved. Reyes, Leah: Amazing. Okay, so, are there any names in relation to the Women's Aid Society you'd like to mention for their impact? Lindsay Waite: No, I can't do that. I just...

00:50:41.070 - 00:51:00.090

Lindsay Waite: I'm saying, I remember Hollis's name and Jo's name, but Lindsay Waite: no, I suspect I volunteered for that year, and then graduated in December. Reyes, Leah: No worries, just wanted to give you a space if there was. Lindsay Waite: I wish there were, but I'm grateful that the People's Free Medical Clinic was there

00:51:00.490 - 00:51:16.890

Lindsay Waite: and so easy to access, you could access it by the number 8 bus. Reyes, Leah: Yeah. Lindsay Waite: You still, well, it's not there anymore. I was gonna say, you could still take that bus and get to the same place. Reyes, Leah: So, how has your participation in the Women's Aid Society impacted your life moving forward?

00:51:17.750 - 00:51:45.010

Lindsay Waite: Well, I've always believed in freedom of choice. Lindsay Waite: And Lindsay Waite: the things women and girls had to go through in the 60s and 70s, a lot of which Lindsay Waite: we kept to ourselves. And then, so I feel that I've kept the feminist heart alive. And then with the Me Too movement, I did start talking about some incidents, none of which were Towson, by the way, but, later in jobs and,

00:51:45.820 - 00:52:52.780

Lindsay Waite: you know, the legal setting, too. So... Reyes, Leah: Got it. Okay, we are on my last question, unfortunately. So, is there anything else, like, memories or experiences that you wanted to share that didn't come up in questioning? Lindsay Waite: Well, a tribute to Dr. Charles Eberhardt, who really saved my life. He was always a strong person, and I got to know his wife, and, you know, he just helped me. I remember when I first came to Towson, I went into his office and I said, I want to major in philosophy. He goes, what? What's your background? Because I started out at Mary Washington in languages and math. Lindsay Waite: And so don't ask me what changed. And then I thought of social work. So he gave me like the old Greek philosophers, Plato, Aristotle, not Immanuel Kant or Heidegger or anybody hard. And he goes, read these and then come back to me. So he was sort of negative. And I did. There was a third book, I can't remember it. And I said, I still want to. And I just... I love that major. It was philosophy and religion.

00:52:52.780 - 00:53:23.700

Lindsay Waite: It just makes you more open to ideas, analytical thinking, Lindsay Waite: other religions, the commonality of thought and things like that. So... Lindsay Waite: And I did love the music while I was there, piano. And I look at some of the music I could play back then. I had, I think, two recitals and I go, whoa, how did I play that? Lindsay Waite: No, I just have fond memories of the school and I, you know, I give small donations when I can, but I always worked in public service, so,

00:53:23.980 - 00:53:37.360

Lindsay Waite: you know, I'm not a big donor. I'm a modest donor now and then when I can. And I love the radio station, too, by. Reyes, Leah: Yeah. Lindsay Waite: It's a good one. Lindsay Waite: So thank you for your time and and the interest of you and whoever's putting all this together.

00:53:37.590 - 00:54:02.020

Reyes, Leah: Well, thank you so much. You've been a lovely interview candidate. I definitely got a lot out of you. And when I finish my research, I could send over, Reyes, Leah: I guess, like, my final paper, if you'd like to read it over, just from extrapolating what I've learned from a couple of the members, if you'd be interested. Lindsay Waite: Yeah, I would be, absolutely. Reyes, Leah: Okay, perfect. Well, that being said...