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Well, we kind of wanted to jump kind of right on in about some just basic kind of questions that... You did get the questions that I sent though, right, to the e-mail? Yes. So we're going to start with kind of just some general kind of involvement with

00:00:14.380 - 00:00:29.440

Towson, kind of just understanding, like, when you when did you live on campus, and when you lived on campus, where did you live, as well as when did you kind of live off campus. At least according to our records, we kind of saw that you were on and off campus.

00:00:31.840 - 00:00:56.520

So I started the fall of 1988 at Towson, was a commuter. I lived on campus from '89 to the following year. The first year I was there in Tower B, 5th floor, to be quite frank, and it was great.

00:00:56.520 - 00:01:11.880

I mean, you know, it was my first time living, you know, away from my parents and, you know, having a roommate and suite mates and, you know, just a whole different environment. But it was just a, you know, great, great time, great time.

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I'll share with you, though, it was interesting because, you know, when you have that transition from, you know, living at home to being independent, I'm sure, you know, those that, you know, dealt with that, you know, it's a huge departure, you know,

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and sometimes it can be a big shock to see, you know, different things. So I'm saying all that to say, I think I learned a lot from that experience and I'm glad I had that experience because it gave me more insight about myself, to be quite frank, in terms of, you know,

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certain things I was used to doing at home. Now I'm, you know, on my own and I have to, you know, make certain I get all these different things done because it has to get done, right?

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So it was good. The following year, and I'm kind of telling, you know, how things were at Towson. Towson developed the Towson Run location. I joke now because I call it Towson Rundown.

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But you know, Towson Run, my roommate and I had decided that we wanted to, you know, go there and we were hoping that we would get either two or four person apartment. To our chagrin, when we get there the subsequent fall,

00:02:40.370 - 00:02:52.080

we find out that we're in an 8-person apartment and that was not ideal. In fact, we were trying to see if we can go back to where we were and obviously we couldn't. So we were stuck.

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And I will share with you that was an incredible experience. I mean, not a good experience to be be frank with you, because we had a cast of characters there. Fortunately, I had the same roommate as I had the year

00:03:08.870 - 00:03:25.240

before in Towson Towers. But the others I didn't, I didn't know them beforehand. And it was quite interesting, to be quite frank. But I'll say this much.

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We had one, and I do have to bring this up, we had one that was quite a rebel. In fact, this individual... It was almost like there was never a dull moment.

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I mean, I could probably write a script and turn this into a movie, I'm not kidding you, just in terms of, you know, what took place.

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But to sum it up, he was an individual that just would do some of the most outlandish things that I've ever witnessed. And at the time I wasn't laughing, but you know, then it was like, what are you doing?

00:04:06.960 - 00:04:20.250

From one night... He apparently had taken some bean bag, you know, and then he winds up busting it open. And so the next, you know, morning I get up and

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I'm usually the one that was the early bird because I always had 8:00 classes. I get up and I see stuff on the ground and I'm wondering what it... What is this? And it's these white beads. And it's not only on the ground, but it's on the the walls, on the ceiling.

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And then I realized, you know, somebody bust open this thing. So it was stuff like that that would occur. Even... And this is maybe a little levity with this too.

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But at the time, it wasn't funny. One day I came back to the apartment and we find a flag that's hanging over the sprinklers. And it was, you know, American flag, I mean, huge, you know, American flag,

00:05:08.520 - 00:05:17.600

it's taking... So of course, you know, we're saying, hey, that can't be up there because, you know, that's obstructing the sprinklers. Who put that up there?

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And of course, you know, one of my roommates said, you asking that, you should know the answer to that. And of course, we knew who it was. The following day, we're now, you know, hearing from the RA that they know that

00:05:32.500 - 00:05:48.730

we have this flag and that we must take the flag down, you know, off the sprinkler. And on another note, the McDonald's on York Road is saying that they're looking for a flag

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and that some individuals from Towson apparently had taken the flag down from McDonald's. That's interesting. Yeah.

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So that was the same flag. Sounds like a real mystery, you know, one of those real head scratchers. Yeah, absolutely. And unfortunately sounds like Towson University.

00:06:09.400 - 00:06:18.330

Yeah. Yeah. So like I said, it was never dull moment from week to week, you know, with with particular... This gentleman.

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It wound up being a situation where he went a little too far with something. I don't even want to go into it, you know, but it got to a point where he actually was taken out of our, you know, location. There was some kind of jury.

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I don't even remember the whole thing, but there was some kind of jury. And I think he might have been suspended or... I don't know. It was just some weird stuff.

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But I mean it, like I said, from week to week, you just didn't know what was going on with this guy because he just had so many things going on and it was impacting us because, you know, got to the point where we even said to the RAs,

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we don't want to get fined, you know, because like we would have gotten fined having the flag on the sprinklers and some other things. But you don't want to hear all of that, right? But that was, you know, kind of what... To be quite frank,

00:07:09.670 - 00:07:21.600

that left a bad taste in my mouth. And I just decided I didn't want to continue, you know, living on campus. I wanted to make certain that, you know, wherever I'm living, that I know, you know, who I'm living with and that I'm not,

00:07:21.600 - 00:07:36.540

you know, having to have these kind of issues because it just was too much, you know, for me at the time. And particularly during that time frame. I'd just started an internship that I started actually the summer before and I

00:07:36.540 - 00:07:53.130

was now working part time with that company. So my time was somewhat limited and the last thing I needed was distractions. So I think, you know, it was best for me just to move out of there, you know, get into a better situation, so

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that's kind of what took place. But it all worked out, you know, afterwards. Yeah, that's good. I guess kind of going on along the lines of, like, that one person,

00:08:02.640 - 00:08:15.600

I'm curious, do you feel like the university itself... Do you feel like there was like kind of stricter like enforcement when it came to, like, people, like, you know, being, like, however you want to phrase it, being, like, kind of crazy disruptive?

00:08:15.600 - 00:08:24.000

Do you feel like there was stricter kind of enforcement? Like, you... I know you said he was suspended. Do you feel like that was kind of prevalent at the campus? Oh, very prevalent.

00:08:24.120 - 00:08:28.800

Very prevalent. Yes. That's good. Yeah, that's good to hear,

00:08:28.800 - 00:08:37.880

I guess. But to be honest with you, I think they gave him too many chances because it wasn't like the university did not know.

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I mean, this guy had like 9 lives, and it just seemed to me, I mean, again, I'm one of, you know, 7 residents in this apartment and I know I wasn't the only one, that other, you know, ones that were saying the same thing.

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Because, again, our concern was that this is detrimental to us. Because you got to keep in mind, you know, some of the things that, as I shared with you before that was happening, you know,

00:09:06.230 - 00:09:21.500

if there's something that takes place, I mean, not even if it's, you know, there, Towson, anywhere. If you're living or leasing a place, you're responsible for anything that takes place that, you know, if there's any type of disruption with,

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you know, furniture or, you know, ceilings or anything like that. So that was our concern. You know, we didn't do these things and we don't want to pay for those types of things.

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And that's what was occurring kind of almost on a weekly basis. And it just got to a point where, you know, we kept sharing the information, but, you know, sometimes it was going to deaf ears.

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And I don't know if they were just waiting for, you know, the worst. And actually it was the worst scenario that did take place. And they just had to let him go, you know, which we were thankful for.

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But, you know, it was almost like, well, this had to happen in order for this to take place? You know. I have a question, apologies, along a similar line. Did you find that in regards to discipline,

00:10:08.480 - 00:10:27.560

there was a tendency to hold back and not do anything until there was a... I'll say an extreme situation? Or did you find that that was more in this specific dorms environment? I'll say more in the dorm situation, but I will say that

00:10:27.560 - 00:10:46.090

it probably is more, you know, a policy in general at that time, at least what I noted, because there were other incidents that occurred on the campus that did take place. And sometimes I think Towson might have, you know, I mean,

00:10:46.090 - 00:10:59.880

they've obviously reacted to everything. I think they've always done a good job of reacting to certain things, but, you know, you would think they'd be a little harsher or stricter so that, you know, it would send a message, you know, throughout the campus.

00:11:00.520 - 00:11:09.460

We don't want this. We're not going to allow this. And I guess kind of going along that lines, like, when we were kind of reading the Towerlight from the archives,

00:11:09.460 - 00:11:24.680

we kind of noticed there was mentions of like crimes like just petty theft, like, property theft, kind of this in the general Towson area. Did you kind of have a feeling of, like, there was times at night that you didn't want to go out, like you thought were unsafe?

00:11:24.680 - 00:11:38.700

Or did you kind of feel like crime was prevalent? Or do you feel like it's maybe not as prevalent as it was made out to be in, like, some of the news articles at the time? I'll be honest, I don't recall a lot, you know,

00:11:38.700 - 00:11:54.400

and I'm comparing it to now, right, based on what I know, right? I don't think it was as prevalent as it is now. OK. And I've stated this before. I think that, you know, times have changed, right?

00:11:54.400 - 00:12:13.670

And I think that the campus, while it has gotten larger, there's a lot going on, you know, because you have, you know, I'm going back to like, you know, in fact, I think I mentioned this a few weeks ago, you know,

00:12:13.670 - 00:12:29.320

take a look at what's going on over at the Towson Mall, right? If you're a certain age, you can't come up there until a certain time because there's a lot of incidents that have been occurring at that mall. But that's spilling onto the campus as well, right?

00:12:29.320 - 00:12:43.040

That's the... You're seeing some of this stuff happening, you know, on the campus with certain things. So I'm just saying this to say I think as Towson does well, you know, people start to kind of take notice.

00:12:43.040 - 00:12:58.330

And then, you know, let's be honest, you know, some folks think, well, those students must be doing well over there and they might have, you know, some nice vehicles or, you know, inventory or anything like that. So I think, you know, things were a lot different when we were

00:12:58.330 - 00:13:16.880

there. I will say, though, that Towson then, at least from what I remember, they were very much involved in trying to keep the students safe and always wanted to prepare folks for the inevitable.

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And what I mean by that is that I remember in one of the meetings that we had, and it might have been my junior year, there was discussion of, you know, the ladies in particular of having like mace and things of that nature.

00:13:36.600 - 00:13:49.650

Just so that, you know, in the event that something, you know, might possibly occur, that they are prepared. So I think, you know, from that standpoint, that was a good thing that, you know... Not to say that, you know,

00:13:49.650 - 00:14:03.000

because I don't recall to be quite frank, a lot of negative activity happening during that time frame, but they at least made certain that people were prepared for the inevitable. OK.

00:14:03.520 - 00:14:17.820

That's very interesting to know. And I guess, not trying to take, like, a u-turn from what we were talking about, just kind of crime and Towson as itself. But we're also kind of curious about some of, like, the class experiences. From our

00:14:17.820 - 00:14:30.450

understanding, you were a business major, right, at Towson University. And we were kind of curious of getting into perspective of what kind of your perspective was at classes, your kind of class experience and what

00:14:30.450 - 00:14:47.300

kind of also made you want to pick the business major. Was, like, Towson, was it advertising business at the time as a major to pick? Or was it kind of just you wanted to go to Towson as a whole? Well, I had several family members that went to

00:14:47.300 - 00:15:06.160

Towson, so I was already familiar with Towson. Towson has always had a great business program. Their professors actually do, I think, great when it comes to lecturing and helping students with obtaining internships as well as jobs.

00:15:07.120 - 00:15:23.270

Some of my favorite professors I still keep in contact with. Doctor Lawrence who was my economics professor, I still stay in contact with her, still see her probably 2-3 times a year. Doctor Kaynama, who was my marketing professor who later

00:15:23.270 - 00:15:36.440

became the Dean. I actually served on the board with her when I was on the board for the Baltimore County Chamber of Commerce. So we both served on that.

00:15:37.200 - 00:15:55.890

So I say all that to say I really loved my time in the business department because the professors there felt genuine. Doctor Lawrence, I can't say enough about her. She was always, you know, just, you know,

00:15:55.890 - 00:16:10.400

looking out for the students and trying to make sure that, you know, if you needed her time, you know, she would make time to speak with you if you wanted, you know, some help with anything. She just was there.

00:16:12.080 - 00:16:29.660

That's one great thing about Towson back then, at least what I know, you know, of my experience compared to other students, and I'm talking about from other colleges. Towson at that time was a smaller school and at least it wasn't like you were

00:16:29.660 - 00:16:40.360

numbered. You felt like you were heard and people knew who you were. And hence, I mean, that goes back to, you know, the professors I'm telling you about, we're still in contact.

00:16:40.360 - 00:16:56.310

I mean, this has been what, a 30-year, you know, almost 30-some years later, we're still in communication with each other. And that to me tells you just how great it was back then where you really did

00:16:56.310 - 00:17:10.640

have just a great rapport with the professors and they were genuine. Because I think if they weren't genuine, I don't think we would still be in contact with each other, if that makes any sense. So I believe that the business department

00:17:10.640 - 00:17:28.690

has always done a great job when it came down to providing, you know, great courses that, you know, essentially help you accelerate once you get into the workforce. And I will say that, you know, everything that I've learned at Towson

00:17:28.690 - 00:17:41.500

I've applied in today's world, that's good. That sounds... That's good that the business department was very active at that time. I know they're putting a lot of emphasis on it now too in this day and age.

00:17:41.500 - 00:17:55.050

Kind of going along like your experience, I know you mentioned a few professors that you were very close with, but do you feel like at the time, do you feel like... 'Cause when we're going back to our research, there was times at Towson where

00:17:55.050 - 00:18:08.520

there was kind of a lack of, like, diversity with the classes. Do you feel like at the time you attended that the classes were kind of more diverse? The environment was more... Do you feel like there was separation,

00:18:08.520 - 00:18:26.150

kind of like cliques or groups within the classes? I didn't notice it. I mean, I guess, keep in mind, I came from Randallstown High School, and Randallstown wasn't what it is today, but Randallstown was quite diverse and

00:18:26.150 - 00:18:44.820

probably a little similar to what Towson is. So I was already, you know, familiar with, you know, I guess, you know, being in an environment similar, you know, where, you know, I came from Randallstown, now I'm going into Towson, and literally some of the students that I

00:18:44.820 - 00:19:00.600

went to high school with went to Towson. So Towson looked familiar to me. Let's put it that way. You know, I guess at that point in time, it wasn't, you know, really an issue of...

00:19:00.600 - 00:19:15.620

I don't say it wasn't an issue of diversity. I think it was just a matter of, you know, you go to class, you, you know, do what you have to do when it comes to, you know, getting your work done and making sure that, you know,

00:19:15.620 - 00:19:30.920

your voice is heard, right? I will say, not in the business department, but in some other classes, and one particular class, I did have an issue with a professor. In fact, this professor was a South African.

00:19:32.240 - 00:19:55.060

It was an African lit class or something. I can't remember the specific name of it, but I just had some really intense conversations with this professor and it was clear the way the professor was teaching a lot of the... What's... I guess the best way to put it,

00:19:55.060 - 00:20:17.920

she's talking about real life folks, you know, that lived in South Africa from Shaka Zulu to, you know, some other individuals and the way she framed it as if they were traitors and just, that's not what I, you know, was familiar with and

00:20:18.440 - 00:20:31.760

that perspective definitely, you know, threw me, to be quite frank. And so when I would almost kind of, you know, say, well, why is that? Or, that's not what I understand,

00:20:31.760 - 00:20:45.280

I've always known. And so she would just, you know, be very combative to the point where I think I was one of two African Americans in their class. And, you know, she would kind of just dismiss some of

00:20:45.280 - 00:20:59.600

the things that I was saying. And it got to a point where my roommate used to always say, man, y'all must be reading a lot of books in this class. And the reason why... It wasn't that I was assigned these books.

00:20:59.600 - 00:21:14.520

I was going out trying to find more material so that I could use that to more of a rebuttal to some of the things. And when I would use that in some of the essays, I literally was failing in her class, right?

00:21:14.520 - 00:21:34.080

Even though I was showing documentation, it wasn't working. And I'll never forget we had a director of African American cultural center, and he was familiar with the situation because a number of people had heard about, you know,

00:21:34.080 - 00:21:42.200

what was going on in that class. And he just said, just give her what she wants, you know, because at this point, she's got the power. You don't.

00:21:44.120 - 00:22:03.400

But it disheartened me because it just, you know, it goes back to like, what's going on today, right? We're in a era where only a certain amount of history is being taught and, you know, a lot is being removed.

00:22:03.880 - 00:22:16.900

And that's kind of what was taking place in that particular class, where a certain narrative was being given to us. And I knew that was not true. You know, I knew that there was other, you know,

00:22:16.900 - 00:22:28.800

stuff going on and I was trying to share that and and trying to, you know, show, well, I am familiar with that. But she didn't want to hear that. And in fact, it was almost like, you know, well, that's not what I told you to read.

00:22:30.400 - 00:22:42.770

OK, but that's what I know. That's what I'm familiar with. And at least that documents, you know, what's happening. So I'm saying all that to say, you know, one thing I'll say,

00:22:42.770 - 00:22:58.060

and if you don't remember anything I've said, I want to, you know, definitely have you remember this. Granted, it might have been a negative situation there and it might not have been as pleasant as it could have been,

00:22:58.060 - 00:23:12.360

but it was a learning opportunity for me because it made me, I think, stronger knowing how to deal with individuals like that, right? Because it was frustrating for me. I'd never met someone like this before.

00:23:12.640 - 00:23:28.360

And for somebody to be in more of an authority, you know, type, you know, position handling the way she was handling me and and several others, that was disturbing. And I, like I said, I made it known to folks at Towson.

00:23:28.840 - 00:23:44.820

But, you know, I guess... I'm not sure she had tenure or anything like that, but sounded like, you know, she had, it was almost like, you know, she had everything going for her. And again, as the director was saying, look, you're the student, you know,

00:23:44.820 - 00:23:58.120

do you want to pass this class or not? So do what she asked, you know, just give her what she wants and go from there. That's definitely interesting to hear about that experience.

00:23:58.760 - 00:24:14.690

Now kind of going along that lines of like faculty, do you feel... Well, did you happen to take any history classes as, being a history class, we're always kind of curious about this. What was kind of your experience with maybe, like, some history professors,

00:24:14.690 - 00:24:31.080

if you remember taking, like, some history classes, do you feel, was kind of more open discussion at the time was allowed or any different, like, kind of thoughts and opinions on maybe any, like, history or liberal arts classes you may have taken?

00:24:31.080 - 00:24:52.560

So one of my favorite professors was Doctor Gissendanner, John Gissendanner. I'm sure if you look through Towerlight, he wrote a number of op-eds, was really a big figure in a lot of people's lives at Towson back then. He was in charge of the African American or Black studies at Towson.

00:24:52.920 - 00:25:05.600

And so I had taken, I think, maybe one or two classes with him and even beyond that, you know, would have a lot of conversations. In fact, going back to the books that I was sharing with you that my roommate would always ask about.

00:25:06.040 - 00:25:22.970

I would go to him and ask him, what should I be reading? What can help me? So he literally was like my GPS navigating me through some things. So I say all that to say, I always enjoyed going into his classes

00:25:22.970 - 00:25:41.530

because I learned some things that I never was taught, you know, when I was in high school or, you know, prior to high school. And I think the way that he taught many of us, it really gave us a lot of insight to things that, you know,

00:25:41.530 - 00:25:56.760

many of us were just hearing about. So I think the great thing about it was he just gave us the exposure to history that, you know, just wasn't taught and might not have been favorable with,

00:25:56.760 - 00:26:10.850

if that makes any sense. You know, I'm curious, to be quite frank, if he were to be, if he were alive today, you know, how would he react? And I would surmise that he would probably

00:26:10.850 - 00:26:25.180

write an op-ed as we speak, you know, to put in the Towerlight to remind people that, you know, America is a very diverse country. We have some great history, we have some ugly history,

00:26:25.180 - 00:26:41.560

but we have to acknowledge all history and we have to respect each other. And so I say all that to say, he was probably one of my professors that really gave me a lot of history lessons and life lessons. And I'm very thankful for that.

00:26:43.320 - 00:27:00.980

And it kind of... You did mention, just now, the Towerlight, kind of also going back to kind of the Towerlight and what kind of students and people contributing to that magazine were saying. Do you feel like the Towerlight was a place for discussion of students of

00:27:00.980 - 00:27:16.960

issues? Or do you feel like it was maybe certain voices were being heard in the Tower- light and others maybe were not being heard in the Towerlight during the time? You know, I think because the Towerlight, you know,

00:27:16.960 - 00:27:36.440

has always been, I think, somewhat conservative. And it's always been, I think, like, a select, you know, few that were kind of controlling information that was going out. So I guess I mean, it's just like with any other publication,

00:27:36.440 - 00:27:49.440

you know, it just depends on the editor, depends on the writers. I'm not saying anything negative about them or anything like that. I just think that, you know, there was only maybe one perspective, right?

00:27:50.320 - 00:28:04.640

And I think that's part of the issue. It's like, you know, look at some of the editorial, you know, rooms around the country, look at some of the assignment desks, like who actually is, you know, taking in the news and and making certain

00:28:04.640 - 00:28:22.800

that, you know, you can greenlight these things. So I'm saying all that to say, I think back then, to be quite frank, it might not have been as diverse and so we might not have had as much representation as we would have liked, right?

00:28:23.200 - 00:28:42.180

But you also got to remember the numbers were much smaller in terms of percentages. So I think they probably reflected the times that, you know, back then. I'm not saying that, you know, there weren't any op-eds, because I know, for example, my roommate, he definitely wrote I think maybe 3 or 4

00:28:42.180 - 00:28:52.440

op-eds while I was there. So it wasn't like they were keeping, you know, folks from writing anything and making certain that didn't go in it. It did, right.

00:28:53.160 - 00:29:08.200

I just think that the, you know, the issue is that, you know, some people might not feel like, you know, as invested, if that makes any sense, right? I think, you know, certain...

00:29:08.440 - 00:29:21.670

It's just like with, you know, certain stations, right? You know, this is conservative, this is liberal. Does that make sense? And so it's like, OK, well, you're going to, you know,

00:29:21.670 - 00:29:37.200

tune into the ones that cater to you. So that's where I'm going with that. I think because, you know, it was a general publication, you expect it to be kind of that and not really having all the voices heard,

00:29:37.200 - 00:29:52.170

if that makes any sense. That makes sense. And then kind of further going into that, we kind of noticed that a lot of, like, African American, like, Black organizations, there was not, like, a lot of mentions,

00:29:52.170 - 00:30:03.320

at least in the Towerlight articles we were seeing. Like, I know there's, like, the Mahogany magazine, that African American acting troupe, which we will also get into those because we're also curious about that, but we'll get into that later.

00:30:03.320 - 00:30:20.700

Do you feel like kind of with, I know you said they were to accept, like, different articles from the kind of whoever wanted to publish, but do you feel like maybe it was the the Towerlight didn't really discuss Black voices as much, because we've kind of noticed that there was at least a little

00:30:20.700 - 00:30:35.590

lack of kind of that information in the Towerlight issues. Well, again, it goes back to the editorial and, again, I'm not pointing fingers. I think that, you know, one, if no one's kind of in your camp saying,

00:30:35.590 - 00:30:50.320

you know, hey, we might want to discuss this, you know, that's taking place on the campus and it relates to this demographic. How would that person know, right? Because that person doesn't live that.

00:30:50.320 - 00:31:04.680

I'm saying, so I think it's a little difficult for, you know, someone that might be, you know, living in a certain, you know, way or have a certain culture. How are they to know, you know, anything about this other culture?

00:31:05.000 - 00:31:23.320

If they have no interactions with them, that's no fault of them, right? And even going back to, let's say, you know, the different demographics that you're talking about, I think that, you know, and I'm... And I have some experience in marketing and public relations.

00:31:23.640 - 00:31:38.320

And so one of the things, and I actually learned this at Towson, one of the things that I learned in a business class was that advertising, you pay, PR, you pray. And what do I mean by that? Advertising,

00:31:38.800 - 00:31:55.160

I can make certain that if I'm trying to promote, let's say, you know, something that's taking place with, you know, a particular, you know, function that that you're putting on, right? I'm going to make certain that that's in the Towerlight.

00:31:55.240 - 00:32:09.940

And the Towerlight is going to have it in, you know, their publication, and it'll be on the first or second page, right? Because I paid for that. But if I'm now putting a press release together and I'd send it to the editor,

00:32:09.940 - 00:32:19.640

I'm praying that they're going to put that in there in hopes that they put hopefully some of it in there. Because let's be honest, they're not going to put the entirety of it in there.

00:32:19.640 - 00:32:34.920

They're probably going to take maybe the top, you know, paragraph of of a six-paragraph press release, right? So you're praying that they're going to put in the information that you want to disseminate to that population.

00:32:35.160 - 00:32:53.240

So I'm saying this to say, I believe then that many people might not have known how to get the information to Towerlight. So, you know, how would the Towerlight know about some of the diverse things going on if they don't get a press release,

00:32:53.240 - 00:33:05.990

if they don't get someone to call them and say, hey, we'd like for you to cover this, right? And that goes back to even, like, the news as we know right now, right? I think if no one is picking up the phone or no one is

00:33:05.990 - 00:33:22.280

sending the information directly to the powers that be, they, you know, how would they know if we don't send the information to them? And I think part of it is just a lack of education. People don't know that you have to send a press release, right?

00:33:22.280 - 00:33:29.910

How many people even know that? Do you follow me with that? So that's where I'm going to. I don't think it's just a thing where they just said,

00:33:29.910 - 00:33:45.360

you know what, we're not going to cover this. Now, if they were doing that, OK, well, then that's a different story. But I personally think at least when I was there, I know, you know, I did know some of the folks that worked at Towerlight.

00:33:45.360 - 00:33:55.360

And if I needed to, you know, run upstairs and ask them, hey, we've got something that's taking place, would you be interested in covering this? They would tell me yes or no.

00:33:55.600 - 00:34:05.900

But you know, at the end of the day, they knew, right? And they would make a point of letting me know, yep, we can cover that. Or, you know, can you send us more information and we'll see if we can get into that,

00:34:05.900 - 00:34:17.500

or we'll put some information out for you. So that's my point. I think that that's the thing. And I guess because I, you know, I'm in that world and I understand that,

00:34:17.500 - 00:34:23.600

right? If I didn't, I might think otherwise. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense.

00:34:23.600 - 00:34:39.010

And I guess kind of going along that whole selective, just the Towerlight in general, like their staff, do you feel like the university as itself, do you feel like the university, like, the Towerlight was a place that people could write about something

00:34:39.010 - 00:34:50.120

they don't like that was going on in the university? Do you feel like there was, do you feel like reading kind of some of those articles, do you feel like the Towerlight was able to stand up to maybe some things or

00:34:50.120 - 00:35:05.140

discuss some things that may be controversial in the university's opinion? Or do you feel like it kind of more fit the lines of... Kind of went along with whatever the university was going with at the time? Again, I'm going back to the years I was there

00:35:05.140 - 00:35:24.660

and particularly my junior year. I know that Towson or the Towerlight covered some controversial stuff and, you know, I don't think they avoided it, let's put it that way. I think that they made a point of putting out there, I think the university,

00:35:24.660 - 00:35:40.200

to be quite frank, might not have wanted some things out there to be quite frank. But, and I understand that, you know, in terms of, you know, their perspective, but I will say the Towerlight was always objective and made a point of, you know,

00:35:40.200 - 00:35:55.280

letting people, you know, be heard. And I think, again, goes back to my point, it was a matter of, you know, people understanding, you know, if you want to get that, you know, in the Towerlight, then this is who you need to contact.

00:35:55.440 - 00:36:04.400

And then, you know, this is the time frame because, remember, I mean, things are different now, right? Because everything, I think, I don't know how it is now, but I'm assuming everything's electronic.

00:36:04.520 - 00:36:11.560

Is the Towerlight just electronic now? Yeah. I mean, I think there's some paper copies, but it's mainly electronic. You get, like, an e-mail.

00:36:11.560 - 00:36:28.640

You're gonna get an e-mail every week when they have the issues and stuff. Some special editions they will print. I know I at least have received, like, holidays, certain physical copies, but that was if I was in the right place for them to be handed out.

00:36:28.640 - 00:36:38.840

They don't, to my knowledge, mail them out or anything. OK, well, and I guess where I'm going with this is that, you know, things are different, you know, now, because things are more instantaneous, right?

00:36:38.840 - 00:36:55.750

And so it's easier to, I mean, with the technology to, you know, put together a publication, at least from my perspective, right? I think then there was a lot of work, you know, because you're putting something to print and, you know, then, you know,

00:36:55.750 - 00:37:05.920

you're typing all this stuff up. You're, you know, reviewing everything. There's a lot more, you know, involved, and it's probably much more costly back then.

00:37:06.200 - 00:37:20.990

So I'm saying all that to say, I really believe, at least when we were there, and in particular my junior year, Towerlight was pretty fair. I don't think that, you know, it was anyone that was trying to prevent

00:37:20.990 - 00:37:30.560

certain things. Again, I think it was more of people knowing, you know, who to contact and how to get the information in there.

00:37:32.560 - 00:37:41.160

You know, I think that was, you know, pretty decent. Now, you know, years past, maybe it was a different story. And again, I don't know because I wasn't on the campus at that time.

00:37:41.440 - 00:37:58.380

But again, I think, you know, going back to even, and I know we've had this conversation for some time, you know, Towerlight didn't cover us, but also remember we were a small percentage, you know, we're talking from the 50s through the,

00:37:58.380 - 00:38:12.880

you know, late 70s. And then maybe it started to really get a little bit, you know, larger with the percentages starting in like the mid 80s, and then it just kept going. Well, kind of transitioning from discussion on,

00:38:12.880 - 00:38:27.120

like, the Towerlight and kind of student involvement to, like, a more broad general student involvement on campus. Do you feel like there was a lot of opportunities to kind of join different clubs and organizations?

00:38:27.320 - 00:38:38.120

Not just like the Towerlight with writing, but maybe other things like sport activities or political advocates, student clubs? Do you kind of feel like there's a lot of options at the time?

00:38:38.720 - 00:38:46.600

Absolutely. And you know, one of the great things about Towson during that time frame, you got to remember Towson was a commuter school.

00:38:47.080 - 00:39:00.640

Not many people were really actively engaged, at least from what I've, you know, perceived it. I don't think a lot of people were actively engaged in a lot of the different organizations at the university.

00:39:00.920 - 00:39:14.300

So I think sky's the limit. You know, if you wanted to get involved and you wanted to participate in those different organizations, and particularly if you wanted to be in some type of leadership role, that the opportunities were there,

00:39:14.300 - 00:39:28.840

because, again, there wasn't a lot of folks that were, you know, involved in all these different things. Not saying that, you know, people weren't showing up. People were showing up, but, you know, for the population that we had there,

00:39:28.840 - 00:39:42.000

I would have expected a lot more. But, again, because people were, you know, mainly commuters there, a lot of people were just, you know, arriving there, you know, getting their work done, and then leaving.

00:39:42.000 - 00:39:58.280

They weren't sticking around to, you know, participate in some of the different meetings for the different clubs or, you know, getting involved in the intramural sports. I don't think we had, you know, that much involvement back then just

00:39:58.280 - 00:40:13.340

because of that, because, you know, I don't know, maybe, again, it's just because a lot of... I mean, a lot of folks were working, you know, it's like they were going to school and then they were working. So I don't think people had the time to participate in all these different

00:40:13.340 - 00:40:23.560

organizations. Thankfully, you know, I had the time, I had the opportunity and I took advantage of that as well as some of the other folks that I know. Yeah.

00:40:23.840 - 00:40:39.360

And kind of going off of your personal experience with clubs, I know at least from our records, I do want to confirm it, just to be on the safe side, you participated in the Mahogany Magazine, or at least were involved in it, as well as the African American acting troupe.

00:40:39.400 - 00:40:53.600

I just wanted to confirm like that you did, were involved in those kind of organizations, and also kind of what other organizations you were involved with besides those two. Yes, Mahogany Magazine, I was involved with that organization

00:40:53.600 - 00:41:09.600

actually my freshman year. I didn't know anything about it until I came on the campus. Just to kind of give an idea, it wasn't an actual magazine, it was a public affairs radio show.

00:41:09.600 - 00:41:25.080

It was half an hour on WTMD, and I'm not sure if it was that then, it was different call letters, but it was Towson's radio station on campus. And the great thing about it was it aired on Thursdays.

00:41:25.080 - 00:41:34.920

I think it was like at 7:00. And we had a host that was, you know, actually it was all student run. So we had a host. We had engineers.

00:41:34.920 - 00:41:49.330

I happened to be an engineer, although I wasn't planning to be an engineer. The funny story about that, as I think I shared with you earlier, when I came to Towson, I already had some friends that came from

00:41:49.330 - 00:42:03.280

Randallstown. And so there were several upperclassmen that were there that I had already known who kind of took me under their wings. And one of them who, still good friends to this day, Carla Sewell Bluitt.

00:42:04.080 - 00:42:18.680

Carla had realized I was, you know, at Towson and said, OK, you're going to be my SAGE [Students Achieve Goals through Education] buddy. I didn't know what she was talking about, but I said, OK, no problem. And then she says to me, you're going to have to do a couple of

00:42:18.680 - 00:42:31.540

different organizations and you should do Mahogany Magazine. Now, I was on the assumption that it was an actual magazine. And so now she's telling me I need you to meet me at this location and at this time,

00:42:31.540 - 00:42:45.240

and I'm going to show you, you know, what goes on. So I meet her at the radio station, and then I'm saying to her, where's the magazine? And she says, there's no magazine, this is what the program is called.

00:42:45.680 - 00:42:56.760

And then she starts sharing with me, you know, what she does. And she was the engineer. And also, I should add, she was a business major. She wasn't a communications major, but that's what she did.

00:42:57.040 - 00:43:11.640

And so she taught me actually how to splice the, like, again, this is old school. Now, you know, everything is digital. But back then there was like these reels. It was like a reel-to-reel.

00:43:11.960 - 00:43:24.640

And you would record on the reel. And then in order to edit, you would have to use razors and you would split, what they call splice. You would splice the tapes.

00:43:24.960 - 00:43:35.240

And so I'm looking at her like, really? Are we doing this with these things? And she said, yes, we're doing this. And so it was great.

00:43:35.240 - 00:43:55.160

You know, I learned a lot. You know, from week to week we were able to have different guest speakers or, you know, to interview from, you know, the local Urban League to, you know, personalities that would come to the school.

00:43:55.160 - 00:44:05.640

Or actually, one thing I'll have to say, and I'm very proud about this. The years that I was there, we had some incredible guest speakers that came to Towson.

00:44:06.040 - 00:44:23.680

And the year that I was... One of the years I was there, I don't know if you're familiar with this, but there was a movie called Lean on Me and it was based on a principal named Joe Clark and that that person was portrayed by Morgan Freeman.

00:44:23.680 - 00:44:43.170

And that was a very popular movie back then. Well, the guy it was based on, Joe Clark, he actually was doing the lecture circuit. And so Towson had him come speak. And I know that... I believe we had him speak on the show, you know,

00:44:43.170 - 00:45:01.700

before he actually spoke to, you know, the Towson community. So I'm using that as an example that it was a great way to get some experience, even though I wasn't a communications major, but I learned a lot, you know, from that experience and met a lot of

00:45:01.700 - 00:45:12.440

great folks throughout that time. And I'd done that from my freshman year to my junior year. That's good.

00:45:12.440 - 00:45:21.440

That's a... We were under the assumption it was a magazine. So that's good to confirm that. And I guess what did it... I guess more of the technical things.

00:45:21.440 - 00:45:27.240

Did it happen, like... Was it in, like, the Media Center kind of where they would host it? Yes. It was in the Media Center.

00:45:28.040 - 00:45:36.800

OK, yeah. And then was it more of just... It was more like just general kind of talk show about, like, Towson at the time, any kind of specific things that would be covered in it?

00:45:37.920 - 00:45:50.910

I mean, it was very topical. So, you know, a lot of current events, you know, so an example, we talked about the Urban League. They would have the president of the Baltimore Urban League come in to talk

00:45:50.910 - 00:46:06.800

about, let's say, you know, programming that they might have. So if they had a gala that was going to take place a month from now, they would allow them to come in and speak, you know, about the gala or activities that they were putting on for the community.

00:46:07.400 - 00:46:23.640

So it was, you know, very topical. You know, I was surprised, to be quite frank, because it wasn't like we had, like, this huge frequency, but yet, you know, people did listen back then and we were able to get really some great speakers.

00:46:23.720 - 00:46:39.000

And thanks to the people that, you know, again, the students, because, you know, one of the things I will have to say, we had some great students who, you know, just dream big. And they said, oh, you know, let's call this person, that person.

00:46:39.000 - 00:46:45.000

So it wasn't always local. It was some national individuals. And I can't even remember. It was so many folks.

00:46:45.000 - 00:46:58.420

And again, this was every Thursday. So, you know, we would have to tape these shows, you know, weeks out and then, you know, make certain that we have enough in the can, because remember, there's some weeks that we're not

00:46:58.420 - 00:47:08.760

even on the campus. So we got to make sure that, you know, we have enough that will, you know, cover certain things. And a lot of times our host did not want to have a repeat,

00:47:08.880 - 00:47:23.970

you know, where we're re-airing a show that was maybe a year from, you know, a year ago or so. So she always wanted to make certain that we always had up-to-date stuff and and it wasn't always the same so that we can continue to have people listening every

00:47:23.970 - 00:47:29.720

Thursday. OK. It's interesting. We definitely... We did not know, like, anything about it.

00:47:29.720 - 00:47:40.440

So it's good to kind of get an actual kind of opinion on that and, like, learn about it. And also kind of shifting gears to another student organization, the African American acting troupe.

00:47:40.640 - 00:47:45.360

Am I saying the word troupe right? Is it like trope? No, no, you're saying it right. African American acting troupe.

00:47:46.160 - 00:47:54.720

Just clarifying. We kind of were just also curious about more of your involvement and kind of what the organization was doing at the time. Sure.

00:47:55.120 - 00:48:12.960

So my freshman year I had taken... Actually the fall semester, I think it was intro to theater. And I had a professor, professor Mahmood, great professor. He, you know, really pushed us to the limits.

00:48:13.800 - 00:48:31.190

He quickly noted that I had, you know, that thespian in me. And it was true. I actually grew up in the theater, grew up with the Arena Players, which is local in Baltimore, and had been in a number of plays at that

00:48:31.190 - 00:48:41.390

time. He wanted to see if, you know, he said, you know, are you majoring in theater? Because I'm looking and I'm not seeing you

00:48:41.390 - 00:48:50.320

majoring in theater. I said, no, I'm majoring in business because I like money. And he said, well, I would think you should think about

00:48:50.320 - 00:49:02.480

doing theater. And I told him, you know, that I had friends that were, you know, doing it and, you know, just didn't think that, you know, it was going to be something that, you know, I was looking to do, you know,

00:49:02.480 - 00:49:10.880

long term, just because I like money. And I know how it has been for some of these actors. I will say, though, some of them actually wind up doing very well.

00:49:11.520 - 00:49:30.800

But this was much later, you know, after the time that I was at Towson. But I say all that to say, the professor found out that I was actually on television. I was actually on a TV show that that aired on WMAR Channel 2.

00:49:31.480 - 00:49:45.600

And once he found that out, he said, nope, you're going to do something with Towson. I'm not going to, you know, let this go. And he said, you know, you really need to consider maybe not majoring in it, but but maybe minoring in it.

00:49:46.040 - 00:49:59.610

I still, you know, didn't want to do it. I told him, look, I'm used to a certain kind of theater I grew up in, that, you know, African American theater. And so what I'm used to is, like, August Wilson, you know,

00:49:59.610 - 00:50:12.790

type plays and some other type of plays. And he got what I was saying. So he said, I tell you what, if you can come up with some kind of proposal that you think Towson might be interested in,

00:50:12.790 - 00:50:23.000

I'd be willing to circulate it around and see if we can make that, you know, possible. So I said, OK, we'll see. So I just came up with something.

00:50:23.320 - 00:50:39.920

And that was the African American acting troupe. He presented that to, at that time, the Dean, and the Dean wanted to meet. We met, had a great conversation. And surprisingly, she said, OK, well, when can you start.

00:50:41.040 - 00:50:51.610

And I'm thinking, oh, maybe a year from now. And she said, no, no, no, no. You're going to start next semester. I'm thinking, I'm not sure if this is possible,

00:50:51.610 - 00:51:03.520

but you know, OK. She says, I tell you what, I'm going to give you a budget. I'm going to give you access to, you know, a lot of things here in our department, so you won't have to worry about much.

00:51:03.920 - 00:51:16.520

I just need you to, you know, make sure you keep me up to date on what you're thinking and, you know, what your plans are. So quickly, I already had a play in mind, already was interested in, you know,

00:51:16.520 - 00:51:26.000

putting this thing on and basically sharing with her, you know, I need a director. I need somebody to help with directing the play. And she said, oh, that's fine, you can do it.

00:51:26.960 - 00:51:34.880

I said, I've never directed a play ever. And I don't think that, you know, that's possible. She said, no, you will do it. I'm sure you'll do a great job.

00:51:35.560 - 00:51:48.040

You go ahead and, you know, we'll get the rights to the play. You start, you know, casting the play and some other things. So I say all that to say, put on the play. We actually had, I think, two shows.

00:51:48.080 - 00:52:02.800

We sold out both shows and as a result we wound up doing more things throughout the time I was there. You know, the years I was there. We recruited a lot of folks not just in the theater department, but outside of the theater department.

00:52:03.440 - 00:52:17.160

And that was really what I was trying to do. I was trying to get people that might have had interest in theater, that might not want, like myself, didn't want to be or didn't want to major in or minor in it, but still wanted to have their foot in it.

00:52:17.640 - 00:52:30.120

And we wound up really putting on some great productions there and we had full support, you know, from Maravene. Actually it's Maravene Loeschke, who later became the president of the university several years ago.

00:52:30.120 - 00:52:42.760

Unfortunately, she passed away of cancer abruptly. We had a strong relationship. I mean, even from, you know, the time I was an undergraduate to the time she came back as a president. I'm sorry,

00:52:42.760 - 00:52:58.060

I'm getting a little teary eyed about this. But, you know, I'll say that that was probably one of the great things about Towson is that, you know, going back to organizations, you know, if you had an idea, they were always...

00:52:58.060 - 00:53:14.120

I believe Towson was open to or even encouraging you to have an organization because it helped the university as a whole so that, you know, you can engage students and put on productions and do other different things.

00:53:14.440 - 00:53:35.090

So I'm always grateful for Towson for that. And I know that as a result of the work that we had done on the campus, Maravene had a surprise for me and our organization. And the surprise was that she brought Charles Dutton,

00:53:35.090 - 00:53:56.220

who's a well known Towson alum, producer, actor, director. At the time, he was just finished actually an August Wilson play, Piano Lesson, on Broadway and won some awards. And recently at that time did a popular show called Roc,

00:53:56.220 - 00:54:15.090

which was named after him and based on character who he portrayed as a trash man in Baltimore City and had a great family dealing with the things that were going on in Baltimore. So she wound up talking to him and convinced him to come speak with our

00:54:15.090 - 00:54:30.550

group and meet with us and encouraged us. And so I'm forever grateful for that, you know, and always remember those opportunities because, again, it left an indelible impression upon me. So I say all that to say we had a great time, you know,

00:54:30.550 - 00:54:47.420

having an organization like that on the campus. And again, you know, I think it goes back to, you know, it was an organization that we were able to put, you know, put together and it was an organization that we had an opportunity to really

00:54:47.420 - 00:55:04.470

showcase the talent that we had on that campus because there was a lot of great folks on the campus that did some great work. That's interesting to know. And then kind of going back to that whole... I know you said it was very involved with

00:55:04.470 - 00:55:12.440

the group. Do you feel like there was a lot of people who kind of joined when you started to get going or was it kind of a struggle to kind of get some people to, like, you know, join?

00:55:12.440 - 00:55:23.280

Or do you feel like people, once they kind of heard about it, once they got involved, they were like, I love it, I want to join. I want my friends to join. No, we had a lot of folks that wanted to join, which is great.

00:55:23.640 - 00:55:37.250

I think once people, you know, particularly the play that, you know, we put on initially, I think that was a good litmus test for us and it showed because, you know, we had not only people that, you know, on the campus,

00:55:37.250 - 00:55:46.560

we had people in the community that came out. Look, and this is my roommate. This is funny, My roommate's actually calling while... My old roommate from Towson is calling as we speak.

00:55:46.560 - 00:55:57.080

This is funny. That's funny. It was just kind of... We wanted to kind of ask one thing before we kind of get more towards like the post- graduation, like, your involvement post-Towson.

00:55:57.080 - 00:56:11.120

We just wanted to ask if you had any kind of, like, any other clubs you were involved with, any kind of notable student life activity, things that you want to mention. SAGE program. I mentioned that earlier.

00:56:12.440 - 00:56:25.240

I was involved in that from my freshman year up until my senior year. SAGE program was a godsend. Raft Woodus was in charge of that. He really taught me a lot.

00:56:25.400 - 00:56:44.920

Probably the most important thing that I learned from him was time and territory management. Just was great in terms of being a great sound board, helping to bring a lot of the students together so that, you know, we knew that we weren't the only ones.

00:56:44.920 - 00:57:03.980

Because I think, you know, that probably, I'll be honest with you, I think the SAGE program saved a lot of the folks at Towson, at least, you know, from my perspective, because it really did help us, you know, get to meet different folks and also realize that, you know,

00:57:03.980 - 00:57:17.770

we all are kind of sharing the same experiences. I think, you know, at one point you're thinking that you're the only one dealing with it and nobody could, you know, relate to it. But then when you have these conversations with some other people,

00:57:17.770 - 00:57:27.640

you realize, OK, we're all in this together and we're all going to help each other. So that was a great program that, you know... It's a mentoring program that takes place at Towson.

00:57:29.840 - 00:57:44.960

Going back to the person I was telling you about earlier, Carla, she was my SAGE mentor and I was her SAGE mentee. And then when I became an upperclassman, then I had SAGE mentees and I, to this day, I still talk to a number of those mentees.

00:57:46.640 - 00:58:04.280

So my point is that it was just a great experience being a part of that. Another organization I was involved with my junior year, as I mentioned, I was the president of the Black Student Union. Had a great time, you know, really just trying to implement different

00:58:04.280 - 00:58:12.760

programs there, getting to know the administration. Probably learned a lot more about the administration that I needed to know while I was there.

00:58:13.400 - 00:58:25.000

My final year, my senior year, I was the co-vice president for the Student Activities Board. I think you call it CAT, I think, now. Yeah. Something like that.

00:58:25.200 - 00:58:42.280

John Adams was in charge of that. It was great because... Let's go back to what I was sharing with you, like with the Towerlight. you know, I don't know how it was, you know, previous... Well, I do. Previous years with the

00:58:42.280 - 00:58:55.530

Student Activity Board, it wasn't diverse, right? And so you kind of saw that with the programming. And one thing that, you know, I quickly started to learn when I was,

00:58:55.530 - 00:59:13.060

you know, president of Black Student Union, we didn't have the budgets for some of the things that we wanted to do on campus. However, the Student Activity Board, they had the budget and I felt if we had more representation on that side of the table,

00:59:13.060 - 00:59:27.230

then we might be able to get some of the things that we were looking for. And so as a result that's what happened. You know, once I became vice president with the Student Activities Board, I think, you know,

00:59:27.230 - 00:59:36.800

we had a larger voice and we were able to bring a lot more to the table. So it was great. It was great. I was also part of the American Marketing Association.

00:59:37.600 - 00:59:46.800

In fact, there I met a number of folks that I still deal with to this day. And I'm talking about not really the students, I'm talking about even the guest speakers.

00:59:47.360 - 01:00:03.600

In fact, one of the guest speakers, I later wound up working for him, David Koch, really great guy, gave us great information in fact. Helped us... In fact, my roommate and I were in the same class

01:00:03.600 - 01:00:14.960

for public relations with two other individuals and because of the gentleman I'm telling you about, he gave us a lot of great information to help us with our presentation. We got an A on it.

01:00:15.480 - 01:00:28.480

I later stayed in contact with him and eventually wind up working with him and then for him later. So I'm saying all this to say that's why it's important to be a part of a lot of these organizations.

01:00:28.480 - 01:00:40.060

I tell people, because I come on the campus often, particularly as they're starting, you know, as a freshman, I share with them that when you come to this campus, you know, you might not, you know,

01:00:40.060 - 01:00:50.830

you might be an introvert and might not be interested in getting involved in a lot of things. But let's be honest. If, you know, it's time for you to graduate and you didn't participate,

01:00:50.830 - 01:01:03.440

let's say you didn't go to a football game or you didn't go to a basketball game, you didn't go to a play, you didn't go to an art exhibit. You didn't participate in the American Marketing Association or any of the organizations that are there.

01:01:04.120 - 01:01:16.840

You can't go back to Towson and say I need my money back from the university fees because I didn't participate in the following things from my freshman year to junior-- I mean senior year.

01:01:16.840 - 01:01:29.320

They're going to laugh at you, right? So my point is you should be taking advantage of these things because your dollars are going into the university fees that support all the things I just mentioned.

01:01:29.680 - 01:01:40.800

And so it behooves you to go to a football game. It behooves you to go to a basketball game. You're paying for it anyway, right? So go out and do these things.

01:01:41.040 - 01:01:50.520

Try it out. You might not like it, but at least you can say you did it. So that would be my message to everyone that you should take advantage of those type of opportunities.

01:01:51.760 - 01:01:57.400

Yeah. Well, that's good to kind of know about some of those things. And of course, yeah, go to the... Take your opportunities.

01:01:57.400 - 01:02:09.380

It's very good. Everyone should do that. And then kind of shifting more towards, like, your involvement post-graduation. I know you're, at least according to our record,

01:02:09.380 - 01:02:22.910

you're now president of the Towson Black Alumni Alliance. Is that correct? And we kind of wanted to know about kind of how you got involved and started with the organization and kind of what are some of

01:02:22.910 - 01:02:35.710

the things that you do to help with alumni and just different... With the organization. Sure. Let me first start. Prior to me being with the Towson Black Alumni

01:02:35.710 - 01:02:50.670

Alliance, I was actually on the board of the Towson Alumni Association. I served for about six years. I was actually recruited by Doctor Rubin,

01:02:50.670 - 01:03:05.880

who was the VP of Institutional Advancement. And if you recall, I was telling you earlier, I served on the board of the Baltimore County Chamber of Commerce. At the time that I served on that board

01:03:06.480 - 01:03:21.040

Dean Kaynama was also on that board, but also our chair was Rubin. Rubin was the chair of of the Baltimore County Chamber of Commerce. And with him knowing that I actually was a Towson alum,

01:03:21.040 - 01:03:38.240

he had asked if I had been back, you know, to some things. I really, I mean, I had been, but not really been back to some things. And I'd share with them, you know, I really wasn't planning to come back to be honest with you.

01:03:38.520 - 01:03:52.600

But any rate, he slowly encouraged me to come back and see if I would be interested in participating and recruited me to get on the board for the alumni association. And so I served there for six years.

01:03:53.240 - 01:04:11.580

Once I, you know, was done with my tenure there, I then was, you know, asked to to run as president of the Towson Black Alumni Association and have been involved with them since that time. The goal is really to re-engage alumni to support not only the students,

01:04:11.580 - 01:04:28.960

but the faculty and staff and the community and really to, you know, be ambassadors for the university. I think we've done a great job in doing that. We've actually hosted, you know, if you come out to homecoming,

01:04:28.960 - 01:04:44.910

we host tailgate and, you know, pull that off by, you know, bringing all the organizations together. We, you know, sponsor different programs on the university, whether it be for a career fair to,

01:04:44.910 - 01:05:02.790

you know, supporting some of the initiatives in the Center for Diversity to student success programs with Tammie King-Kelly, who's also serving on our board. We take trips to Broadway shows, you know, we do a lot of different things,

01:05:02.790 - 01:05:22.860

you know, and most important, we raise funds to support the students for scholarships. When I first came on board as the president of the African American, you know, Towson Black Alumni Alliance, I wanted to focus on the existing

01:05:22.860 - 01:05:37.000

endowment, which is named after the first two African American graduates of Towson. Mrs. Barnes, Mrs. Harris. And at the time, I can't remember what the numbers were,

01:05:37.000 - 01:05:58.100

but you know, it was... We wanted to see if we could use that as a litmus test to kind of galvanize our alumni to support this worthwhile endowment named after these two great women to support our students. And so I'm glad to say as of, I think, now it's probably over $180,000

01:05:58.100 - 01:06:18.010

in the endowment, which, you know, wasn't in there when I was there, you know, at the time, I mean, it was probably, it was definitely, like, maybe under 50,000 or something like that. So I'm saying that to say we made a point of creating awareness and raising funds

01:06:18.010 - 01:06:34.160

and we did that year after year. Since then we've been supporting other things. And my biggest thing and our our biggest thing at this point, we want to see if we can raise funds to

01:06:34.160 - 01:06:56.680

get the first black professor Whitney LeBlanc's name on the main stage. Not sure how much you're familiar with him, but he came to Towson in 1965 and was recruited actually by Maravene Loeschke's husband years, he actually was one of the ones that

01:06:56.680 - 01:07:08.440

helped us with the African American acting troupe. And actually he helped with starting the Black Student Union at Towson. I wasn't there back then. We're talking, like, in the 70s.

01:07:08.440 - 01:07:30.360

But I'm saying this to say that we we really want to get Whitney LeBlanc's name on the main stage because it's important, you know, that's a name that many people haven't heard and don't know the impact that he had not only on the campus of the university, but also in the culture,

01:07:30.360 - 01:07:52.600

you know. And I should add, if you don't mind, while he was there, the second play that he had put on there was a play that dealt with the civil rights workers who were killed by the Ku Klux Klan. And from what we were told, and you'll see this actually,

01:07:52.600 - 01:08:07.960

I think it's in the Towerlight, Whitney LeBlanc was told by the FBI that the Ku Klux Klan was actually threatening, you know, they were threatening to do something. And so he said, bring them on, bring them on.

01:08:08.000 - 01:08:30.800

You know, they can come to my reception. And so in October of 1966 in Stephens Hall, he had, you know, put on the show and unfortunately outside of Stevens Hall, on York Road, there were 20 Ku Klux Klan members in regalia protesting this play.

01:08:31.680 - 01:08:51.640

So he dealt with a lot. He dealt with a lot. He left Towson to help get PBS started, and he had actually wrote, directed and produced a show called Our Street that dealt with a black family in

01:08:51.640 - 01:09:07.440

East Baltimore. And he recruited, we believe, the first black student in the theater department at Towson, guy by the name of Howard Rawlings, who was literally, like, the next Sidney Poitier of his time.

01:09:09.280 - 01:09:26.880

From what we were told, he was only at Towson for one semester. And Whitney LeBlanc has suggested that he dropped out of Towson because there was no way that he could go to Towson and be in this soap opera because it was a, you know, first Black soap opera.

01:09:27.760 - 01:09:41.560

And they were filming, obviously, on a daily basis. And he was the lead actor. So he agreed to drop out and he was in I think over 80-some episodes. He later left and went to New York.

01:09:41.560 - 01:09:56.640

I'm talking about Howard Rawlings, by the way. And he wind up being in some huge films such as Ragtime, Soldier Story which featured a little- known guy named Denzel Washington, Robert Townsend, David Allen Grier, the list goes on and on.

01:09:56.880 - 01:10:14.700

If you haven't seen that film I would suggest you go check it out. But any rate he did very well for himself. So my point is Whitney LeBlanc really was a towering figure and did some great work. But aside from that, he got a phone call because his show

01:10:14.700 - 01:10:30.160

aired in 25 markets during that time. So that's pretty big, you know, for his show to air in 25 markets. Norman Lear called him and said, hey, I've loved your show. I'm actually working on a prime time show on CBS.

01:10:30.480 - 01:10:39.920

It'll be the first black sitcom. I would love for you to be my associate producer. If you decide to do this, you would be the first associate Black producer in Hollywood.

01:10:40.720 - 01:10:59.850

And so he jumped for the chance and he did it. That show was Good Times and, as you know, Good Times is iconic and has has done very well, still showing episodes to this day. And then later he winds up directing shows from Young and the Restless, Benson, 227,

01:10:59.850 - 01:11:16.320

you name it. We later found out that Whitney LeBlanc actually helped design the stage that we know at Towson in the Fine Arts building. But he didn't see it until probably decades later.

01:11:16.640 - 01:11:24.640

And when he saw it, thanks to Dick Gillespie, he said, hey, this is what I dreamed of. This is what I designed. He said, yeah, we know.

01:11:24.640 - 01:11:36.280

And this, we're going to make that right. So unfortunately, Maravene Loeschke again passed away abruptly due to cancer. And the subsequent year, Dick Gillespie had passed away.

01:11:36.800 - 01:11:55.160

And unfortunately, a few years ago, Whitney LeBlanc had passed away. But I'd heard, you know, from, from Dick Gillespie about this. And so I say all this to say, we're focusing on trying to get that, you know, happening.

01:11:55.160 - 01:12:05.920

And I'm hoping by next year's... Hopefully sometime in October we will have the name up there. So cross your fingers on that one. Thank you.

01:12:06.000 - 01:12:17.080

Thank you again for sharing that. I do hope that remembrances event next year or even sooner potentially is there. I know it's been... With Towson, they put a lot of emphasis on kind of recognizing the past.

01:12:17.080 - 01:12:33.960

I know Barnes Hall and Harris Hall are named after those two you were talking about before. And as we kind of now get to the end of kind of like our time, our interview, I kind of just wanted to ask what are some of your reflections on just Towson

01:12:33.960 - 01:12:46.440

in general? Would you do anything differently? How has kind of that experience, like, brought about today? You know, I think I wouldn't do it any differently.

01:12:46.440 - 01:12:58.600

I think, you know, as much as, you know, I mean, yeah, there was some stuff that, you know, took place that, you know, I would have loved to have been differently. But I think, you know, God has has his own plan, right?

01:12:59.000 - 01:13:09.880

And I think that, you know, as I shared with you before, even though it might have been a negative experience, some of them were negative experiences, it was life lessons and it made me a stronger person.

01:13:10.240 - 01:13:20.600

So I'm thankful for Towson as a result of that. You know, what I really loved about Towson, to be quite frank, other people, you know, it goes back to what I was just sharing with you.

01:13:21.160 - 01:13:39.230

I still keep in contact with a number of the folks that, you know, I dealt with, you know, my freshman year, you know, even 'til my senior year. We're very close. You know, we have a close-knit community, not just the students, you know, faculty,

01:13:39.230 - 01:13:52.680

staff, you know, that's been important. And, you know, one thing I'll say to all of you, right, don't think that, you know, this journey is just four years, this a 40-year journey or more.

01:13:53.600 - 01:14:08.000

So when you signed up to come to Towson, this isn't four years. You signed up for forty, fifty, sixty years, however long you going to be, you know, living, because that's really, you know, you're going to carry that with you and hopefully you can come back to pay it

01:14:08.000 - 01:14:17.440

forward. That's what, you know, I would say that, you know, I'm thankful that I developed some great relationships and that, you know, we're able to stay in contact.

01:14:17.800 - 01:14:30.230

You know, again, to this day, I still have, you know, a lot of folks that, you know, still stay in contact, still support each other. You know, we've witnessed raising children together

01:14:30.230 - 01:14:51.110

to, you know, come together, you know, for different events. In fact, I'll give an example and, you know, I have a, you know, ton of folks, but, you know, we support each other, and I'd use an example of... We have one particular person that's part of our

01:14:51.110 - 01:15:03.880

group that is an esteemed judge. And in her situation, she got appointed and now she has to run for that position, you know, and that's just how it is, you know.

01:15:04.200 - 01:15:21.100

So where I'm going with this is that what I really loved is that, you know, when she kicked off her campaign, not only does she have people that were from the community that were there to support her, but she also had her college community, you know,

01:15:21.100 - 01:15:35.260

people that she went to school with. And we had a large number that turned out for her, you know, for that. So I guess where I'm going, that's what I'm grateful for. I'm grateful for the friends and the friendships that we've developed and how

01:15:35.260 - 01:15:45.160

we still continue to support each other. That's very meaningful. And I think that's a testament to, you know, us as tigers that, you know, we all support each other.

01:15:45.480 - 01:15:56.340

We're all, you know, here to to make certain that we roar together, right? And I think that's important for all of us. And in the end... So I hope that's something that you all,

01:15:56.340 - 01:16:10.120

you know, can can take from this and, and hope that, you know, based on the stuff that you're doing while you're at Towson, that, you know, you cherish those moments, but also make certain that you develop, you know, great relationships while you're there,

01:16:10.120 - 01:16:22.040

because trust me, you know, those are relationships that you'll hopefully have, you know, for the rest of your life. Well, thank you again. And yes, go tigers, the roar of the tiger.

01:16:22.320 - 01:16:34.240

Absolutely. Thank you again for the participating in this interview. And just one final thing we want to mention is if you happen to have any different like, documents or things that could be useful to the archives,

01:16:34.240 - 01:16:44.800

we would love to, especially if you could get in contact with Doctor Todd-Diaz about that. If you have anything to give back will be always great be in the archives for those to see in the future and now.

01:16:45.280 - 01:16:49.280

But thank you again. Thank you. Thanks everyone. Thank you very much.

01:16:49.520 - 01:16:52.640

Yeah, have a good one. You too. Take care.