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Reyes, Leah: I hit the record button. Reyes, Leah: Okay. Reyes, Leah: Perfect. Reyes, Leah: So, thank you so much for meeting with me this morning. You said you're good?

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Juanita Jo Matkins: Yes. Reyes, Leah: Okay. Reyes, Leah: So, what I have in Reyes, Leah: my writings is that the Towerlight mentioned that the Women's Aid Society, you started it in the fall of 1970. Is that correct?

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Juanita Jo Matkins: I... (laughs) I think so. I mean, if it says it. Again, my memories are... Yeah, Juanita Jo Matkins: that's stuck way in the recesses here. So I'm going to go with what the Towerlight said. Reyes, Leah: All right, sure. So when did you get to Towson State College then? Juanita Jo Matkins: I was a freshman in 1967.

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Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: Fall of 1967. I graduated in 1971. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Reyes, Leah: Okay, yeah, that definitely corroborates what I had, and I read that you were a theater major, was it?

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Juanita Jo Matkins: Yes, theater arts. Reyes, Leah: Wow, okay. Were you a part of any other student organizations? Juanita Jo Matkins: I don't remember being a part of any other student organization. Being a theater major was pretty consuming. Juanita Jo Matkins: And, you know, we… Late nights and summers, and we were… And my work study, I was a work study student.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: I was in the theater department, so I was pretty much there all the time. Reyes, Leah: Wow. Okay. Did you have a favorite production that you worked on? Juanita Jo Matkins: Yes, I played Jenny Diver in Threepenny Opera. Reyes, Leah: Oh, wow. Haven't heard of it, but that sounds fun.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: That's Bertolt Brecht. You need to learn about him. Reyes, Leah: Okay. Juanita Jo Matkins: A playwright from the... I think the mid-20th century. Juanita Jo Matkins: German playwright.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: And I don't even... You probably don't even know the song Mac the Knife. Juanita Jo Matkins: But it was a famous pop song from probably around 1960, 70, 80. Juanita Jo Matkins: And, that was one of the… Threepenny Opera is a musical. Juanita Jo Matkins: But it's based upon an old story

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Juanita Jo Matkins: about an English Juanita Jo Matkins: romantic bandit, kind of like Robin Hood. Reyes, Leah: Okay, interesting. I saw that Towson also did a production of The Country Woman, but I'm not sure if that was in your time. Juanita Jo Matkins: It's not familiar to me. We did 2, 3, 4, 5 productions a year.

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Reyes, Leah: Oh, wow. Juanita Jo Matkins: And I was there for four years and, Juanita Jo Matkins: I mean, I was the stage manager for a studio production we did of La Boheme. Juanita Jo Matkins: The opera.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: Trying to think what others we did. Chekhov. Juanita Jo Matkins: What was the name of that play? We did Chekhov, we did George Bernard Shaw, Juanita Jo Matkins: we did... The professors tried to expose us to lots of different genres. Juanita Jo Matkins: And I worked in the scene department. I was one of the people that built the sets.

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Reyes, Leah: Wow, that's amazing. You were very busy then. Juanita Jo Matkins: I was very busy. Reyes, Leah: So it seems that you started the Women's Aid Society Reyes, Leah: in your last year. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: Probably the next to the last year. Reyes, Leah: Oh, okay, so your… Juanita Jo Matkins: Junior year. Reyes, Leah: Okay.

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Reyes, Leah: So, while you were on campus, what was the general attitude towards birth control during your time? Juanita Jo Matkins: The general attitude was that women deserve to have birth control. Reyes, Leah: Hmm, okay. Juanita Jo Matkins: And I don't remember running into any resistance to the idea that women deserve to have a choice about what to do with their sexuality and with their bodies.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: It was the time of... Sweeping the campuses across the nation was the Vietnam War protest. Reyes, Leah: Yes, yeah. Juanita Jo Matkins: And they were part of a package of reexamining Juanita Jo Matkins: attitudes about just about everything, including, you know, what… Including politics and government and the sense of trust in letting others make decisions for what happens, but that translated into

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Juanita Jo Matkins: women beginning to say, look, you know, we deserve to have, and there was the invention of Juanita Jo Matkins: the birth control pill. Reyes, Leah: Yes. Juanita Jo Matkins: That was a big, big, big, big deal.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: For the first time ever Juanita Jo Matkins: in what I know about history, for the first time there was a fairly easily accessible, Juanita Jo Matkins: fairly risk-free, fairly inexpensive way to be sexually active and not get pregnant. Reyes, Leah: Yeah.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: And that just changed the world for women. It really did. Reyes, Leah: Yeah. So, was there, I guess, Reyes, Leah: more of Reyes, Leah: a preference for the pill versus the IUD because I know the Dalkon Shield came out in 1974 if you...

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Juanita Jo Matkins: Oh, I remember. Reyes, Leah: Yeah, and it was like, Reyes, Leah: crazy terrible reputation for IUDs after that, but on campus was everyone more pro-pill or more IUD or was just everything fine? Juanita Jo Matkins: There didn't seem to be a preference thing. The IUD was a one-time expense and the pill was an every month expense.

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Reyes, Leah: Yeah. Juanita Jo Matkins: And the pill affected your hormones and, you know, Juanita Jo Matkins: there was a lot of adjusting going on of the dosage for the pill. For one thing, I remember girlfriends who couldn't do the pill because, and maybe it was because at the time it just hadn't been Juanita Jo Matkins: carefully researched and refined enough,

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Juanita Jo Matkins: but it made them sick, Juanita Jo Matkins: and they would try the IUD. I got an IUD when I was at Towson. That was before 1974. Reyes, Leah: Yeah. Juanita Jo Matkins: And I couldn't tolerate it. I mean, it just hurt like hell. And so I had it taken out.

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Reyes, Leah: Wow, interesting. So this is kind of veering off course, but I'm just curious, what do you remember about the Dalkon Shield fiasco? Juanita Jo Matkins: I just remember that, initially, Juanita Jo Matkins: an IUD, just any IUD, was considered to be pretty darn nice, you know, a good idea. Juanita Jo Matkins: And there were a lot of women who tried the IUD because it was

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Juanita Jo Matkins: a one-time thing. You didn't have to remember to take your pill every day, and I do have memories of women who forgot to take their pill, and of course, when you forget to take your pill, you enhance your fertility. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: You know, they'd get pregnant. Juanita Jo Matkins: I don't remember a lot about the Dalkon Shield particularly, but I do remember just generally that there was a time when, one, the IUD was considered,

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Juanita Jo Matkins: you know, like, the miracle answer. And then things shifted pretty quickly when it was realized that there were a lot of dangers with it. And I think women already knew Juanita Jo Matkins: by talking with their friends that Juanita Jo Matkins: there were a lot of problems with the IUD. Yeah. Reyes, Leah: Yeah. Yeah.

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Reyes, Leah: So, this was all after you founded the Women's Aid Society, but what did make you found the Women's Aid Society? Juanita Jo Matkins: Well, that story is a... I was thinking about that when you first contacted me. Juanita Jo Matkins: Um... Juanita Jo Matkins: Probably I was working for the theater department. We did production assistance for special speakers who came to Towson.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: And so I was Juanita Jo Matkins: probably helping with the lighting and whatever for a guest speaker that Towson had contracted with. His name was Juanita Jo Matkins: Bill Baird, B-A-I-R-D, and Bill Baird had learned about the deaths of college coeds, Juanita Jo Matkins: um,

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Juanita Jo Matkins: who accessed illegal abortions. Their deaths were caused by bad abortions, Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: botched abortions, and he decided to make it his, I mean, he took on the cause of educating Juanita Jo Matkins: people about what was going on with young women and and his point was we can't

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Juanita Jo Matkins: restrict Juanita Jo Matkins: what women have access to, or we're gonna be… It's gonna kill women. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: And he was not only advocating for birth control but also for abortion as a choice for women,

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Juanita Jo Matkins: for pregnancy, and he came to Towson, and I was at his appearance. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: And Bill Baird quoted a statistic Juanita Jo Matkins: that I've never been able to verify, and I don't know if it's verifiable.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: But what he said was that two Towson coeds had died the previous year Juanita Jo Matkins: from botched abortions. Juanita Jo Matkins: And I was just like, what? Juanita Jo Matkins: Could not believe it, and there it was. I was a junior at Towson.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: And part of me knew that these weren't things you talked about, you know. Reyes, Leah: Yeah. Juanita Jo Matkins: And Towson would certainly not have released a press release about it. Reyes, Leah: Horrifying.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: But I could believe it, I could, because, Juanita Jo Matkins: you know, I knew young people, and I knew myself well enough, too. I knew young people were sexual. And to deny that was, I thought, ridiculous. I still think it's ridiculous. Juanita Jo Matkins: Um... Juanita Jo Matkins: And so I thought, yeah, that makes sense to me that that could have happened. And if it did,

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Juanita Jo Matkins: how horrible. And what can we do to stop that? Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: What can we do to keep that from happening again? And that's when I decided to see what I could do. Juanita Jo Matkins: I'm one of those people that...

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Juanita Jo Matkins: I just always thought that Juanita Jo Matkins: if I really wanted to make something happen, all I had to do was Juanita Jo Matkins: think hard enough, try hard enough, and reach out enough, and I could make it happen. Juanita Jo Matkins: Um,

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Juanita Jo Matkins: and there were very few things in my life, and there have been very few things in my life, that Juanita Jo Matkins: affected me like this did with the resolution to make something happen so Juanita Jo Matkins: this wouldn't happen to my friends. Reyes, Leah: Yeah.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: And so I.. Do you want me to go ahead and talk a little bit about..? Reyes, Leah: Yes, please. Juanita Jo Matkins: Yeah. And, you know, this was Juanita Jo Matkins: over 50 years ago. So my memory's kind of...

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Reyes, Leah: No worries. Juanita Jo Matkins: What I do know I did was I went to Student Health. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: And I told them what I wanted to do,

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Juanita Jo Matkins: and the Director of Student Health Juanita Jo Matkins: spent much, much, much time with me, and I don't remember his name, but I remember loving this man, because he was so patient with me. I mean, I was on fire Juanita Jo Matkins: to tell women that they could get an abortion, tell women that they could get birth control, and all these other things. Juanita Jo Matkins: And he insisted that if Student Health was going to support this, that I needed to get training.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: And so he provided access to training for me and then subsequently to the other people who volunteered with the Women's Aid Society Juanita Jo Matkins: in counseling. Reyes, Leah: Okay, so training was… Was it just information? Cause you guys weren't... Reyes, Leah: I imagine you weren't performing procedures.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: No, no, no, and it wasn't training for the physical. It was training for the counseling side. Reyes, Leah: Oh, okay. Juanita Jo Matkins: It was training, and it was also cataloging what the resources were. So if you want Juanita Jo Matkins: to go this path with your pregnancy or if you want to go this path to prevent pregnancy, what are the resources and where are they?

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Juanita Jo Matkins: How can you access them, you know? And what are the addresses and phone numbers? Juanita Jo Matkins: That kind of thing. But it was also training in not Juanita Jo Matkins: telling people what you wanted them to do. Juanita Jo Matkins: It was training in helping people figure out what they themselves wanted to do.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: So giving training, and literally it was training in being a Juanita Jo Matkins: pregnancy counselor, or a sexuality counselor, Juanita Jo Matkins: so that we were not there to take any particular position. Juanita Jo Matkins: We were there to help people figure out for themselves what they wanted to do, and then to provide them with information about how to pursue that.

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Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: And I'm… Juanita Jo Matkins: That was really good for me because I'm a bit hard-headed. And, you know, I tend to think that I know better than anybody. Reyes, Leah: (laughs)

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Juanita Jo Matkins: And this was really a good way for me to leave the sheltered college life and go into the real world and realize that it's a give and take that helps you grow and helps your relationships grow and enriches your life. And it's not, you know, Juanita Jo Matkins: being like a bull going into the world, you know, making a difference. And so it was really good for me to have this man, who I grew to highly respect, Juanita Jo Matkins: helping me figure out what makes a good counselor, and that training in how to give advice Juanita Jo Matkins: and when to give advice and how to listen.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: was provided to all of the people who volunteered. And then I believe what happened was Student Health provided an office. Reyes, Leah: Interesting. So where was that? Juanita Jo Matkins: It was right there at Student Health. Reyes, Leah: Oh, okay. Was that in Glen Esk?

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Juanita Jo Matkins: Yeah, that sounds right. Reyes, Leah: Okay. I read in the paper it was by the rear entrance, but I wasn't sure if Reyes, Leah: it started in Glen Esk and stayed there, or maybe if you moved. But, okay, so your group was supported by faculty it seems. Juanita Jo Matkins: Yes.

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Reyes, Leah: Okay, wow, and it sounds like Reyes, Leah: it must have been a very kind of emotional job, so Reyes, Leah: I guess, how would you describe, like, the mission of the Women's Aid Society with that in mind? Juanita Jo Matkins: Well, the mission was to be there as much as we could be, um,

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Juanita Jo Matkins: for women who had questions, or who had Juanita Jo Matkins: situations and situations that that they wanted help with. Juanita Jo Matkins: and if it was a case of wanting to terminate a pregnancy, Juanita Jo Matkins: we wanted to be there as soon as we could, once a woman decided

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Juanita Jo Matkins: that she wanted advice and wanted options. So we tried to fill the, you know, the slots of a day Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: as best we could in terms of volunteer hours, Juanita Jo Matkins: and I really I don't remember, and you may have information. If you do, I'd love to hear it.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: Recruiting volunteers. I don't remember how we did that. Juanita Jo Matkins: But I know we did. Reyes, Leah: I have some names of the members from 70 to 71, but I did never see any information on how to join. I just saw, like, the operational hours, as well as the location, and, I think, Reyes, Leah: a lot of contact information from Tricia Vermillion.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: Tricia Vermillion. Reyes, Leah: I could read the founding names if you'd like. Juanita Jo Matkins: I'd love that. Reyes, Leah: Okay, so from 70 to 71, I have David Cohen, Patricia or Tricia Vermillion, Richard Golden, Hollis Toal, and Richard King.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: Those names really sound familiar. Juanita Jo Matkins: Yeah, yeah. Reyes, Leah: I have the 71 and 72 members as well, if you'd like to hear. Juanita Jo Matkins: 71, 72. Would that have been fall of '71 and spring of '72?

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Reyes, Leah: Yes. Juanita Jo Matkins: I would not... Juanita Jo Matkins: Unless I… Yeah, read them to me just in case Juanita Jo Matkins: they've been involved.

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Reyes, Leah: Okay, again, we have Richard King, Patricia Vermillion, Leah Bogusko, David Cohen, Susan Rowe, Lindsay Schlottman, Hollis Toal, Reyes, Leah: Chris Edward Voelker, and David Zimbower. Juanita Jo Matkins: Okay. Juanita Jo Matkins: What I do remember was a concern I had that once I left

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Juanita Jo Matkins: it wouldn't continue. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: And it sounds like at least some of the volunteers during my first years Juanita Jo Matkins: there, during the start of the Women's Aid Society, continued on after I left, and I don't know how long it continued after that.

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Reyes, Leah: Yeah, honestly, I'm trying to figure that out as well, because Reyes, Leah: I have, like, newspaper clippings of them up to, like, Reyes, Leah: the fall of 1972, but then when abortion was legalized in 73, they stopped appearing in the paper. Reyes, Leah: So I thought maybe they dissolved because there wasn't a need, but I wasn't entirely sure.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: We had access to clinics that would provide abortions. Reyes, Leah: So you would do abortion referrals? Juanita Jo Matkins: Yes. Reyes, Leah: Okay. Oh, wow. Would you manage transportation as well?

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Juanita Jo Matkins: We didn't advertise that. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: But we would. I mean, we did. I didn't have a car. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: Some other people did. Juanita Jo Matkins: But we would provide whatever was needed. Reyes, Leah: Were these clinics all in-state? Juanita Jo Matkins: Yes.

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Reyes, Leah: Okay, so I saw a bunch of advertisements in the old student paper about abortion services in New York, and I was wondering, wow, did they drive all the way to New York for that? Juanita Jo Matkins: No, I remember that there were downtown in Baltimore, there were clinics that would provide abortions. Reyes, Leah: Oh, wow. Okay, that's amazing. Reyes, Leah: So, aside from

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Reyes, Leah: the counseling aspect, because you were the founder, what other roles did you perform in the Women's Aid Society? Juanita Jo Matkins: Well, I'm sure I helped with recruiting. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: I imagine that I helped arrange transportation,

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Juanita Jo Matkins: helped arrange, Juanita Jo Matkins: advised, part of the counseling would be advising on financing. Abortions were pretty expensive if you were a college student, Juanita Jo Matkins: even for the clinics. And, oh, I just thought of something in terms of the legality. I think abortion was legal Juanita Jo Matkins: then if the mother was endangered in some way.

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Reyes, Leah: Yeah. Juanita Jo Matkins: And doctors would... There were doctors who would certify that the mental health of the mother was at risk and therefore Juanita Jo Matkins: you could get an abortion, and that was how they got around the law. Juanita Jo Matkins: Because the law did not… There was no blanket

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Juanita Jo Matkins: approval of abortion at that time, but that I think that's how they got around it, and we knew the doctors and the clinics that would do that. Juanita Jo Matkins: Oh, Juanita Jo Matkins: I… Reyes, Leah: Huh!

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Juanita Jo Matkins: I can't… I mean, other than that, I… Juanita Jo Matkins: Nothing comes to mind of other things that I… I was very active in the anti-war protests. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: So I was busy doing that too, because I think the Cambodia bombing was 1970.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: And I was... I went to DC with a gas mask and everything. So Reyes, Leah: Wow. Juanita Jo Matkins: I was doing that, but there was the Students for a Democratic Society, an SDS chapter Reyes, Leah: Yeah.

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Juanita Jo Matkins: at Towson. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: And I was not officially a member, Juanita Jo Matkins: but I spoke at some of their rallies, and I…

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Reyes, Leah: Wow. Yeah. I saw they made a lot of noise at Towson. They had a lot of protests, were getting arrested. I hope you weren't getting arrested. Juanita Jo Matkins: No, I got arrested for something different, but… Reyes, Leah: Okay, well. Reyes, Leah: That's hilarious. Oh my gosh, so, wow, so you were kind of

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Reyes, Leah: not officially part, but were kind of working with the SDS. Juanita Jo Matkins: Yes. Reyes, Leah: Very interesting, because I've seen a lot of their protests in the paper, and… Reyes, Leah: It was Mr. Fisher, I think he was the dean. He was just not…

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Reyes, Leah: Never really commented on it, it's hilarious. Reyes, Leah: So, you knew a lot of clinics. I'm not sure the exact date that the Goucher Planned Parenthood opened up, but I talked to Reyes, Leah: a member that came after you, and she did a lot of work with the Planned Parenthood and Goucher. Was there a partnership between you and the Goucher Planned Parenthood, or was it just others? Juanita Jo Matkins: Others. Not me.

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Reyes, Leah: Okay, got it. Reyes, Leah: Interesting, wow, that's amazing that, like, you knew the doctors as well. Reyes, Leah: Wow. Reyes, Leah: Would you say that the other members had different roles than you?

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Juanita Jo Matkins: No, I think we all pretty much did the same thing. I didn't provide a lot of oversight that I remember. Juanita Jo Matkins: You know, I was just another one of the counselors. I think when I was initially recruiting volunteers, you know, Juanita Jo Matkins: we would talk about why I was doing it and why they were doing it, and Juanita Jo Matkins: make sure that they understood they needed to get the training,

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Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: so that they could Juanita Jo Matkins: provide objective assistance. And so, I mean, but Juanita Jo Matkins: I don't think I was doing

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Juanita Jo Matkins: other things other than that. Like I said, I was busy, busy, busy, busy. Reyes, Leah: Got it. Do you remember any relevant literature from the training? Juanita Jo Matkins: Not from the training. It was about that time that a book called Our Bodies, Ourselves Juanita Jo Matkins: came out, do you know about that book?

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Reyes, Leah: Yes. Juanita Jo Matkins: Yes, well, the first edition of that book had some pretty explicit information in it, not specific to Maryland and Baltimore, Juanita Jo Matkins: but just in general, stuff about women and sexuality and our bodies and things like that. I remember that as being something that kind of inspired me and that I used as a reference. Juanita Jo Matkins: I don't remember anything other than that. There wasn't really a whole lot of how to have a women's aid society, you know.

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Reyes, Leah: Yeah, yeah. Juanita Jo Matkins: There's no pamphlet for that. We were pretty much developing it on the fly because of the need. Reyes, Leah: So, what effect do you think that the Women's Aid Society had on campus? Juanita Jo Matkins: I, you know, honestly, Leah, I really don't know. I mean, I could make some guesses.

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Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: I can say that Juanita Jo Matkins: probably it was comforting to women to know Juanita Jo Matkins: that they could come to us

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Juanita Jo Matkins: and it was all confidential, and it was a, you know, we were assured by student health that, Juanita Jo Matkins: um, Juanita Jo Matkins: the names, no record would be kept of the names of the patients, of the persons who came to us. Juanita Jo Matkins: Um...

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Reyes, Leah: No, I've seen that. I've been in the archives scouring for any record about the Women's Aid Society. But of course, like, it's sensitive work, I'd imagine there wouldn't be much information. But even on a small scale, like, your group must have helped so many women. And I guess that's effect enough even you could Reyes, Leah: get one woman one abortion referral. Like, I'm sure that was just life-changing. Reyes, Leah: Oh, I was also wondering if you worked with the Women's Liberation Group on campus? Juanita Jo Matkins: Probably, but I don't remember specifically. I mean, it's something I would have been in sympathy with for sure.

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Reyes, Leah: Okay. Juanita Jo Matkins: I was a big advocate for women, and in my subsequent career, I think that has played out as well. Reyes, Leah: Interesting. Reyes, Leah: So I know a big

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Reyes, Leah: name in the women's lib movement back then, Gloria Steinem, did lecture on campus. Did you go see her? Juanita Jo Matkins: What year was that? Reyes, Leah: Let me double check that for you. Reyes, Leah: That was in the fall of 1971.

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Reyes, Leah: Like, October. Juanita Jo Matkins: I wasn't there. Reyes, Leah: Okay. Reyes, Leah: No worries.

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Reyes, Leah: So, Reyes, Leah: I also read that, but please correct me if I'm wrong, that the Women's Aid Society was also advocating for a birth control clinic on the Towson campus. Juanita Jo Matkins: Yes. Reyes, Leah: Okay, so how did that advocacy go?

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Juanita Jo Matkins: Well, it never came to fruition while I was there, and I don't know that it ever did. You could probably tell me about that. Reyes, Leah: It did. Juanita Jo Matkins: It did? Reyes, Leah: It did happen! It was about

00:30:04.360 - 00:30:35.970

Reyes, Leah: I think the spring of 1972, 'cause at first there were Reyes, Leah: the Goucher College, because it was an all-women's college, which is why I think they had the birth control clinic first, but the Towson Health Center helped set that up in Goucher and would refer Towson students to the Goucher Clinic. Reyes, Leah: But then Planned Parenthood was contracted by Towson, I believe, in 1972. Juanita Jo Matkins: Might have known that, which...

00:30:37.910 - 00:30:53.390

Juanita Jo Matkins: Yeah, I can't remember now. I might have known that. I was... Juanita Jo Matkins: My family had moved to Virginia by that time Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: and I was living at home in Virginia, so I was kind of out of touch with Towson.

00:30:53.790 - 00:31:14.610

Reyes, Leah: Yeah, no worries, I mean it's... Reyes, Leah: I'm still trying to figure out when exactly it was, because there's no, like, concrete dates, but… Juanita Jo Matkins: Mm hm. Reyes, Leah: I think, yeah, maybe late 1972. But at least there was an established relationship with the Goucher Planned Parenthood, which the Women's Aid Society did

00:31:15.110 - 00:31:33.620

Reyes, Leah: work with, and there was apparently a shuttle service as well. Reyes, Leah: So you started something. Reyes, Leah: So Reyes, Leah: do you remember any difficulties that the group faced?

00:31:38.030 - 00:32:12.720

Juanita Jo Matkins: I don't. And I was thinking about what has happened Juanita Jo Matkins: since then in the United States in terms of objection to abortion. Juanita Jo Matkins: And I, you know, for whatever reason, Juanita Jo Matkins: the really radical thing that we felt like we were providing was access to abortion. Access to birth control just didn't seem that, I mean, it was like, yeah, the information's important,

00:32:14.340 - 00:32:34.190

Juanita Jo Matkins: but because there was a controversy about abortion, Juanita Jo Matkins: we were glad that we could provide information that would help women get an abortion if they wanted one. Juanita Jo Matkins: There was no opposition. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm.

00:32:34.190 - 00:33:20.810

Juanita Jo Matkins: I don't remember any, not from the the staff at Student Health, or Juanita Jo Matkins: from my friends, you know, in the theater department, the people I hung out with who knew what I was doing, the people I encountered on campus. I don't remember anybody being opposed to the ideas that we were Juanita Jo Matkins: disseminating through the Women's Aid Society. I don't remember that at all, and I think it would probably be different nowadays. Juanita Jo Matkins: The political climate

00:33:21.280 - 00:33:44.410

Juanita Jo Matkins: has been such that they have engendered Juanita Jo Matkins: a certain group or a certain Juanita Jo Matkins: segment of society to think that no abortion is good Reyes, Leah: Mm hm.

00:33:44.410 - 00:34:07.600

Juanita Jo Matkins: and that women don't really deserve to have that choice. Juanita Jo Matkins: At the time that I was on campus, Juanita Jo Matkins: there was no sentiment of, well, if they just kept their legs together, they wouldn't have this problem. Juanita Jo Matkins: I mean that was not the tenor

00:34:07.710 - 00:34:55.070

Juanita Jo Matkins: at Towson State College in 1967 to 71. It was the sexual revolution. It was a realization and an acceptance Juanita Jo Matkins: of, you know, what it's like to be 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 years old. Juanita Jo Matkins: And I run into that kind of thing here where I live now in rural Virginia. I mean, I have neighbors who are so anti-abortion that they will not consider any scenario, even Juanita Jo Matkins: the health of the mother, the mother is dying, but, you know, there might be a miracle. God can do that, you know? And so, she must not have this abortion. And I just… I don't remember any of that when I was at Towson.

00:34:56.080 - 00:35:18.390

Reyes, Leah: Wow, that's amazing, because even now, there have been anti-abortion protesters on campus. Reyes, Leah: They'll just come on with their signs and try to Reyes, Leah: not debate, just argue with college students. It's like, Reyes, Leah: okay, interesting choice. So there was no social pushback, but

00:35:18.690 - 00:35:34.670

Reyes, Leah: how did you get funds allocated for the Women's Aid Society? Juanita Jo Matkins: The director of student health, I think that was his position, the man who I initially talked to, Juanita Jo Matkins: um, Juanita Jo Matkins: got it in the budget.

00:35:34.940 - 00:35:51.640

Reyes, Leah: Wow. Juanita Jo Matkins: I don't know. I don't know that we had anything to do, except I do... There's a faint, faint, faint memory of me speaking to a board somewhere, a Towson board. Juanita Jo Matkins: about what we were doing. Juanita Jo Matkins: Um...

00:35:51.760 - 00:36:03.460

Juanita Jo Matkins: And that was so that we could, you know, get a line in the budget. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: And we did. Reyes, Leah: Wow, okay. Oh, everything just seemed to come easy. That's amazing.

00:36:03.460 - 00:36:14.630

Juanita Jo Matkins: (laughs) Reyes, Leah: Wow. Juanita Jo Matkins: It may not have been that easy, but Juanita Jo Matkins: my memory is that we had a lot of support from student health.

00:36:14.760 - 00:36:34.390

Juanita Jo Matkins: A lot of support. Juanita Jo Matkins: You know, there were probably people who were glad to let us take it on. Reyes, Leah: And so for the students that came in, did many boys come in, or was it mainly women? Juanita Jo Matkins: Mainly women.

00:36:34.560 - 00:36:42.350

Reyes, Leah: Okay. Reyes, Leah: Did you see any boys come in? Juanita Jo Matkins: We'd have boys come with… We'd have young men come with young women. Reyes, Leah: Okay.

00:36:42.820 - 00:37:11.340

Reyes, Leah: Oh, that's nice. Reyes, Leah: So, you did information on the pill, was there any information on other contraceptive methods? Juanita Jo Matkins: Yes, we had the whole range, IUD, the rhythm method, which we cautioned, you know. Juanita Jo Matkins: You know what you call people

00:37:11.560 - 00:37:26.020

Juanita Jo Matkins: who used the rhythm method. You call them Mom and Dad. Juanita Jo Matkins: I didn't do that. I didn't say that during my counseling session. Reyes, Leah: (laughs) Yeah. Juanita Jo Matkins: So what we provided was the range,

00:37:26.450 - 00:37:55.340

Juanita Jo Matkins: you know, there's this, there's this, there's this, there's this, here's the success rate of this, here's the success of this, and here are the issues with each one of these. So we… And it was all the way from total abstinence to Juanita Jo Matkins: IUD and abortion. Reyes, Leah: Oh okay, so was this all just, verbal communication, or would you send them home with, like, any information? Juanita Jo Matkins: I think we developed a pamphlet.

00:37:55.340 - 00:38:01.960

Reyes, Leah: Okay. Juanita Jo Matkins: But again, that's one of those, Juanita Jo Matkins: you know, Reyes, Leah: Yeah.

00:38:01.960 - 00:38:23.890

Juanita Jo Matkins: things that we would have done. Reyes, Leah: I have heard about a pamphlet, Reyes, Leah: but Reyes, Leah: I think it existed. I'm pretty sure it existed, but we don't have any record of it, and I was just wondering, also, like, who would have written the pamphlet. I heard a segment of Our Bodies, Ourselves might have been in it, if that rings any bells.

00:38:24.650 - 00:38:55.790

Juanita Jo Matkins: Well, it makes sense. Juanita Jo Matkins: Um... Juanita Jo Matkins: Almost certainly the student volunteers would have had a voice in what the pamphlet said. It's possible that we drafted it and ran it by student health, by the doctors at student health, Juanita Jo Matkins: to make sure that it was accurate, and it was worded clearly and was responsible.

00:38:56.260 - 00:39:13.240

Reyes, Leah: Yeah. Reyes, Leah: Okay, Reyes, Leah: so, what I'm getting from you, and again, correct me if I'm wrong, it seems like the Women's Aid Society seemed like Reyes, Leah: an accessible resource for women on campus. Like, there wasn't

00:39:13.800 - 00:39:19.440

Reyes, Leah: an air of shame to visit the… Juanita Jo Matkins: Absolutely not. Reyes, Leah: Okay. Juanita Jo Matkins: Yep.

00:39:19.440 - 00:39:37.550

Reyes, Leah: Wow, that's amazing. Reyes, Leah: Okay. Reyes, Leah: And what did it look like when you entered the Glen Esk room, where, I guess, your office was held? Juanita Jo Matkins: I don't even think there was a reception area.

00:39:37.550 - 00:40:00.410

Reyes, Leah: Okay. Juanita Jo Matkins: I mean, from what I remember, it was a room. Juanita Jo Matkins: And it was… And I don't think there was a desk. We realized that that kind of gave you, you know, an authority that we didn't want to have. You know, we were there to be fellow students Juanita Jo Matkins: who just happened to have some information and a desire to help.

00:40:00.690 - 00:40:20.790

Juanita Jo Matkins: I think it was a couch and chair. Reyes, Leah: Okay, okay, I heard from Reyes, Leah: a different member, there was a kitchen somewhere, but maybe you might have moved rooms. She was talking about there was a cast iron stove. Juanita Jo Matkins: What?

00:40:20.790 - 00:40:30.510

Reyes, Leah: (laughs) Juanita Jo Matkins: Oh, I don't remember that. Reyes, Leah: I know it was, like, a very nice, like, Victorian house, but Reyes, Leah: the building is gone now.

00:40:32.480 - 00:40:55.320

Reyes, Leah: Okay, so are there any names in relation to the Women's Aid Society that you'd like to mention for their impact? Juanita Jo Matkins: Well, I wish I could remember the name of the man who I believe was the head of student health Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: who I went to initially, and who was a consistent advisor

00:40:55.430 - 00:41:18.600

Juanita Jo Matkins: and highly respected by me, and probably by the other volunteers, Juanita Jo Matkins: and a real supporter, and helped us get the funding for, Juanita Jo Matkins: you know, printing the pamphlets and things like that. Reyes, Leah: Wow. That's amazing. I had no idea that there was faculty help

00:41:19.190 - 00:41:41.330

Reyes, Leah: and that it was so supported. Reyes, Leah: So, for you, how has your participation in the Women's Aid Society impacted your life moving forward? Juanita Jo Matkins: I was thinking about that. Juanita Jo Matkins: Uh, I've not really consistently called myself a women's lib-er,

00:41:41.330 - 00:42:14.130

Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: but I have been. Juanita Jo Matkins: Upon graduation I came home to a farm in Central Virginia Juanita Jo Matkins: with a degree in theater. And I did some work in the theater in Baltimore, but I just… it didn't make me happy. And so I came home to be with my family and help raise horses in Central Virginia, and

00:42:14.350 - 00:43:04.520

Juanita Jo Matkins: started teaching, and went back to school to get a degree to teach. Ended up teaching here in Louisa County, and it's… At one point, I decided that I… This Juanita Jo Matkins: may seem really weird. You may have seen this when you Googled me, but decided I'd go back and and get a doctorate in science and science education. Like, theater over here, science over here. Juanita Jo Matkins: But my dissertation was, for my PhD, for my doctorate, was characteristics of women scientists. So I focused on what it was in the lives of Juanita Jo Matkins: five outstanding women scientists that enabled them to do their science and be successful.

00:43:04.960 - 00:43:30.930

Reyes, Leah: Oh, wow. Juanita Jo Matkins: It was a really, really interesting dissertation, but the choice was because I wanted to know Juanita Jo Matkins: what was it that helped women be successful in science when the history of Juanita Jo Matkins: white European science was very few of any women in it. I mean, Marie Curie, and that's it.

00:43:31.380 - 00:43:57.970

Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: So that was exciting and it turned out to be Juanita Jo Matkins: pretty successful in terms of Juanita Jo Matkins: getting me access to university-level jobs. And I ended up with a tenured position at the College of William & Mary and retired as a full professor, Professor Emerita, College of William & Mary

00:43:57.970 - 00:44:27.040

Reyes, Leah: Oh. Juanita Jo Matkins: and found myself advocating for women and for other populations that had been not advantaged. Juanita Jo Matkins: My later work, the work that I was really focusing on when, in the last 4 or 5 years before I retired, was Juanita Jo Matkins: training teachers to teach in communities with a high

00:44:27.560 - 00:44:53.890

Juanita Jo Matkins: percentage, high proportion of low income and minority Juanita Jo Matkins: kids. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: So we're working in the Hampton, Norfolk, Richmond City. So that kind of thing translated into just a sense of everybody ought to have access to those things that help them become the best they can be and help them contribute the most that they can contribute to the greater good of all of society.

00:44:53.980 - 00:45:26.580

Juanita Jo Matkins: So it was... I think the Women's Aid Society was all part of that, because I saw Juanita Jo Matkins: the great loss Juanita Jo Matkins: that the deaths of co-eds embodied. Juanita Jo Matkins: The loss of what they might have contributed to society and to their families and to their world, and how unnecessary things like that needed to stop.

00:45:26.730 - 00:45:58.530

Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Wow, that's like... Reyes, Leah: That is just so amazing, because you've done all this work, and even though we're in a bit of a Reyes, Leah: troubling time right now, like, your work back then has brought us to this moment, which is just so valuable. So thank you. Juanita Jo Matkins: I am still in the struggle. I've been retired 11 years now and I ran for office in 2019 in a very red MAGA area of Virginia.

00:45:58.570 - 00:46:38.110

Juanita Jo Matkins: And I think performed pretty respectably, but I thought that somebody needed to run against the Republican who was saying really stupid, idiotic things all the time. Juanita Jo Matkins: And there's a group of us, and the group is growing, here in rural Central Virginia, Juanita Jo Matkins: who are... We stage protests, we sign petitions, we write postcards, we recruit candidates. Juanita Jo Matkins: We've even talked about forming a local chapter of the Janes. Do you know about the Janes?

00:46:38.440 - 00:46:51.600

Reyes, Leah: The… Is that the abortion group? That's what I thought. In New York? Juanita Jo Matkins: It was a group of women during the same period that I was at Towson Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: who learned how to provide abortions.

00:46:51.600 - 00:47:06.110

Reyes, Leah: Yes. Reyes, Leah: Where you just call Jane, and there's just a network of Janes. Juanita Jo Matkins: Yes. Reyes, Leah: Yeah, that's… Wow, that's amazing! Even if, like, the area you're in, you're outnumbered by MAGA, just, like, your representation is just, like,

00:47:06.540 - 00:47:24.440

Reyes, Leah: giving hope and giving a voice to, like, those who might be too intimidated to speak up. Juanita Jo Matkins: And that's why we do it. Reyes, Leah: That's amazing that you're going to start, like, a network of Janes again. Oh my gosh. Juanita Jo Matkins: I didn't say we were going to, because we really don't need to in Virginia.

00:47:24.440 - 00:47:40.130

Reyes, Leah: Yeah. Juanita Jo Matkins: In Virginia, as a matter of fact, Virginia has a constitutional amendment on the ballot this year to make women's access to reproductive care across the board Juanita Jo Matkins: a constitutional right. Reyes, Leah: Wow.

00:47:40.130 - 00:48:16.550

Juanita Jo Matkins: So it's an amendment, right, that'll be voted on this fall in November, and we're gonna work very hard to make sure that that gets passed. Reyes, Leah: Wow, well, good luck. Oh my gosh, that's amazing. Okay, unfortunately, I'm on my last question, but is there anything else you wanted to share or any memories or experiences that you remembered that you have that didn't come up in questioning? Juanita Jo Matkins: I'll share one memory, and Juanita Jo Matkins: one of my friends in the theater department,

00:48:17.040 - 00:48:31.800

Juanita Jo Matkins: uh, Juanita Jo Matkins: got pregnant Juanita Jo Matkins: in her senior year. Juanita Jo Matkins: And I remember her walking around among the work study group

00:48:32.660 - 00:48:47.080

Juanita Jo Matkins: asking us if we could help her pay Juanita Jo Matkins: for her abortion, Juanita Jo Matkins: and I'm just thinking about Juanita Jo Matkins: how hard

00:48:48.550 - 00:49:21.270

Juanita Jo Matkins: it still is. And I'm sure this happens to women today. I'm past reproductive age, honey, so this is not a question for me anymore. But Juanita Jo Matkins: just the the continued dilemma Juanita Jo Matkins: of Juanita Jo Matkins: pregnancy and the need for women to have that

00:49:21.780 - 00:49:50.280

Juanita Jo Matkins: choice for their lives of whether to embrace Juanita Jo Matkins: being a mother and raising a child Juanita Jo Matkins: or to put it off and not be forced into Juanita Jo Matkins: one choice over the other and just remembering my friend going around the group of people. You become very close when you're in the theater department, you know, you're together day and night.

00:49:50.340 - 00:50:22.980

Juanita Jo Matkins: And asking people, can you give me $20? Can you give me $10? This abortion was $300, I remember that. Juanita Jo Matkins: And she needed to raise that much money to get her abortion. And this is a young woman who had a steady boyfriend. They were in love. That was not the issue. It was that she was not ready to marry and have a baby at that time. And she deserved to be able to make that choice. Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: So that's one memory that I have.

00:50:26.100 - 00:50:40.610

Juanita Jo Matkins: And I wanted to ask you, Reyes, Leah: Mm hm. Juanita Jo Matkins: how long did the Women's Aid Society, by name, Juanita Jo Matkins: persist? And how long did the effects of the Women's Aid Society persist?

00:50:41.540 - 00:51:11.230

Reyes, Leah: I think… I can't find an exact end date, but now I know that the Women's Aid Society did start in the fall of 1970, and I believe that they stopped operating in, Reyes, Leah: I guess February Reyes, Leah: 1973, because I guess after winter break, I didn't see their operational hours in the newspaper anymore. Reyes, Leah: And I think… I mean, your group's advocacy for the Towson

00:51:11.600 - 00:51:35.240

Reyes, Leah: birth control clinic, I mean, it came to fruition. I'd say the effects are just still ongoing, like we can get Reyes, Leah: STD tests on campus, we can get Reyes, Leah: birth control referrals on campus, we can get pregnancy tests on campus, like, I feel like your group was Reyes, Leah: monumental in, like, getting that ball rolling.

00:51:36.200 - 00:52:19.880

Juanita Jo Matkins: That makes me feel so good. Reyes, Leah: You did so much! That's why I was like, how is there nothing in the archives about this group? Because, yeah, your group started, and then Goucher's Planned Parenthood Clinic went up, and then Towson's, and Reyes, Leah: you just did amazing work, and I'm so happy we got to have this conversation, and I'm just enthralled, like, I've learned so much, so thank you so much for your contributions. Juanita Jo Matkins: Well, thank you for your interest. You brought back memories that I haven't had to think about. So they've been back, you know, back here for quite a while and you've given me a little energy for the work I'm doing right now.

00:52:20.240 - 00:52:34.260

Reyes, Leah: Perfect. Well, thank you so much. If this is all we have to say, I think we're ready to end. Juanita Jo Matkins: Okay. Reyes, Leah: Okay, so thank you so much. I think my director's gonna end the recording.