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Ashley Todd-Diaz: Ah, well, my name is Ashley ToddDiaz, and we are here today to speak with Miss Froma Willen. Elaine Mael: I'm Elaine Mael, and I've known Froma for so long, and I'm so delighted to be here with her.

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Froma Willen: And I'm Froma Willen. I am the former coordinator of the Baltimore Jewish Council Holocaust Survivor Videotaping Project, which was in existence from 1988 to 1994. Ashley Todd-Diaz: So thank you for taking the time to speak with us today,

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Miss Willen. We're interested in speaking with you to learn about the Baltimore Jewish Council's initiative to collect Holocaust testimonies during the 1980s and 1990s. And we're particularly interested in getting your first-hand insight

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considering your position at the council at the time and the various groups of people who are part of the project. So before we begin, we would like to verify that you are OK with us recording our conversation today.

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Froma Willen: Yes. Ashley Todd-Diaz: All right. So we have approximately twelve questions to ask and we will start. So our first question, when did you start working at the Baltimore Jewish Council?

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Froma Willen: I started working there in June of 1989, but the program was well underway before I started working there. And I certainly am happy to tell you a little bit about the beginnings of the program if you'd like me to.

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Ashley Todd-Diaz: That would be great. Froma Willen: Well, the original concept of videotaping Holocaust survivors started back in 1979 in New Haven, Connecticut. And that was how the original group of videotapes and the subsequent

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many videotapes wound up at the Sterling Memorial Library and with funding from the Fortunoff family, became the Fortunoff Video Archive for Holocaust Testimonies. And the archive, after several years, thought it would be beneficial to have

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input from other communities around the country. And Baltimore got wind of this and they were interested. So as early as 1987, Toby Brookes and Michael Andorsky, who were the professional and lay leaders of the Holocaust Remembrance Project at

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the Baltimore Jewish Council, they contacted Yale and set up the procedures for being an affiliated project. And subsequently Toby Brookes was no longer employed there. And Annette Lieberman, who was known as Netsie,

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came on board and she was really the guiding light behind the project. What had to happen was that they needed, first of all, they needed funding, Fortunoff was lovely about guidance and training, but they didn't have the funds to fund these various projects.

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But we were very fortunate that the Associated [Jewish Federation of Baltimore] had one of their funds, the Jacob and Hilda Blaustein fund for the enrichment of Jewish education. They were the initial funders of the project, and they continued to fund it for the next three years.

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And the other thing that had to happen was, well, two things. One was to get a list of the Holocaust survivors. But because the Baltimore Jewish Council was already involved in Holocaust remembrance, there was a small list, but an important list of the existing

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Holocaust survivors in Baltimore. That list expanded under my regime, so to speak. And the other thing was to train the interviewers or first of all to get the interviewers.

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Netsie Lieberman put an ad in the Baltimore Jewish Times to the effect that anyone... Any sensitive person who would be interested in in interviewing Holocaust survivors to please contact the Baltimore Jewish Council.

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And there was an overwhelming response to the point where they had to cut it off at, I think it was, excuse me, about 24 interviewers in the beginning. The others who were still on the list came on board later when our efforts increased.

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But that was how the program got started. And at that point, Netsie Lieberman was assisted by a young woman named [Sidriya Quate]. I'm not sure exactly what her role was at the council.

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I think she might have been an intern, but they, to their credit, they did 22 interviews I think that first year, completely.... Wait, I forgot one important thing, the training. The interviewers had to be trained and they had to be... Robert...

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Robert... What was the professor's name at Hebrew University? Robert Friedman. Not Robert Friedman.

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Oh, I'm sorry, I'm blanking. Elaine Mael: Shapiro? Froma Willen: Robert Shapiro. Sorry.

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He conducted historical training for these interviewers. But then Yale came down. The manager of the archive, Joanne Rudolph, and the chief interviewer, Donna Klein, came down to train the interviewers

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because one of the unusual things about the Fortunoff interviews was they were very freeform. It was not like today where you asked me a question and I give you an answer. We encouraged the survivors to just start.

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You know, my name is so and so. I am 82 years old. I was born on this and such date and this and such place and just to keep going. And that's how most of the interviews went, the majority.

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Sometimes the interviewers would interrupt to clarify something like how old were you then or where did this take place? But this required a certain amount of training on the part of Yale to disabuse the interviewers of the fact that they were going to be asking

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questions and getting answers. And the other thing was with Robert Shapiro's training, they also had to know something about the Holocaust, which unfortunately many people in our generation didn't.

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So it was a lot of work. It was all volunteer, wonderful, wonderful people. And that's how it got started. And by the spring of '89, when I came on board,

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[Sidriya] unfortunately had gotten ill and she couldn't continue. But you have to give a lot of credit to her and to Netsie Lieberman for getting the the program started in such a powerful way. And we just kept going after '89.

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Elaine Mael: So you've answered some of these questions along the way. So the next question that I have was how were the interviewees selected? Froma Willen: The interviewers? Elaine Mael: Interviewees, the ones who... Froma Willen: The Holocaust survivors, you mean?

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Well, we... As I said, we did have a list there. In the Holocaust remembrance efforts of the Jewish Council, there were speakers who would go around to schools or to homes to talk about their experiences.

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So there was already a list. I must say that that list increased many fold after the videotaping project started. But we relied on word of mouth, on HIAS [originally Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society], Engel

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Weinberger helped us with some names and it turned out that... And then other things would happen. For example, there was a movement several years into our project to interview people who were children because obviously they were

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younger. They didn't always remember as much as the older people, but they were younger and more able to give an interview. That was a fascinating part of our journey.

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And when there was a convention in New York of a national group of children of the Holocaust, it raised the consciousness of a lot of those children who lived in Baltimore. So that was another list.

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And little by little, you know, we would hear... Somebody would call and say, have you interviewed this and such a person? And that's how the interviewers, the interviewees were selected. Elaine Mael: Just a follow up on that, was the project going to continue as long

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as there were people to be interviewed? Froma Willen: That was our goal. And actually that is what happened. We were doing great in '89, '90, '91, '92.

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By '93 things were slowing down a little bit. What we did, though, which was unusual, but we worked it out with Yale and they were quite accepting of it. We started to interview Russian survivors because, as you know, in Baltimore,

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there was a great influx of Russian immigrants when they were allowed to leave the Soviet Union and they had some experiences that you really don't hear about very often. So what we had to do was, and we were very successful,

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we trained Russian speaking interviewers in the same way that we had trained the other interviewers. And, by the way, I should add at this point that as we went along, we increased the number of interviewers

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that... It had been cut off at 24, but it wound up being some 40- some interviewers, but some of those were Russian-speaking interviewers and some were Yiddish- speaking interviewers. And we did get material that was hard to get and was fascinating.

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And, unfortunately, we didn't get the groundswell of interest in the Russian community that we had hoped to get. But we were able to continue our program into '93 and part of '94. And that's when we had to decide whether it was worth asking for more funding.

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The Blaustein funding had lasted for three years and they were actually a program to initiate Hebrew education in some form. So they were not supposed to fund something indefinitely. But again, through the Associated, we were able to have funding from the

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Harry Weinberg Foundation, Family Foundation, and that took us through to the end of the program. But there was a point in late '93, early '94, where we had to give serious thought whether it was a good idea to keep

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asking for funding or whether we had pretty much finished. The other thing that was happening was that Schindler's List had come out and Steven Spielberg, to his credit, had started this Survivors of the Shoah Foundation.

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Now Steven Spielberg had unlimited money and the most advanced technology, and he also had the name Steven Spielberg. And we could not compete with that. We thought for sure that he would be in

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the Baltimore, Washington area. And anybody that we might have missed would have the opportunity to give a training, I mean, an interview. So that was when, by the end of '94, we decided that for the time being we

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were done. I should say that we did complete 142 interviews, which we were very proud of. Elaine Mael: Did that include Liberators? Froma Willen: Liberators, yes, there were at least two that I remember.

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Liberators. It included one or two witnesses, which I know I have that in my file, but I did not, was not present for those. There was a Righteous Gentile and there were interviews of people who had been throughout Eastern and Western Europe.

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Our rules, so to speak, were that anybody who had been affected by the rise of the Nazis in the 1930s onward into the war years was considered as a survivor. So even if they had to leave, and if they were fortunate enough to be

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able to leave, they were considered survivors because their life was completely disrupted. And so we had people who had left, people who had gone to Shanghai, which was one of the only places in those years where you could go without a visa,

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people who had escaped into parts of Russia where the Nazis did not go. Of course, the people in Poland, France, England, we had survivors who were on the Kindertransport. Just about everything that happened to the people,

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the Jews in Europe between 1933 and 1945 is represented in our archive, I'm happy to say. And it was fascinating, just fascinating. And really we just could not thank the survivors enough because it was quite

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something for them to come forward and talk for two hours. But the interviews lasted usually for two hours. We took a break at one hour. And there's other things I can say about the job of the interviewers,

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if you're interested. The interviewers... I was the coordinator, so I was the one who picked the dates, got the survivors for the dates, got the interviewers for the dates. But the interviewers played a tremendous role and these are all volunteers.

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They had to call the survivor who was going to do the interview on the day they had chosen and introduce themselves, make arrangements to pick up the survivor and take them back home. But more importantly, they got a sense of what their story was,

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Not all the details, but where they lived and what had happened to them. And it was up to the interviewers who communicated with each other. There were two interviewers for every interview.

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They had to bone up on this material. They had to come into the interview knowing something about Buchenwald, about Auschwitz, about wherever the person was born, even to the point of the town in which they were born.

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There was also at the interview a recorder and that person took notes. And then it was my job afterwards to transcribe the the notes. So the interview... And the interviewers also after the interview were required to get in touch with the survivor, make sure they were OK, you know,

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keep up the relationship for some time. And many of them became friends, as did I. So it was quite a job for these volunteers who were doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.

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And, interestingly enough, we never really vetted them. You know, it turned out that anybody who wanted to answer this ad was OK, you know, and they were just the most wonderful people, really.

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You might be interested to know where we did the tapings and how that happened. In the beginning, Netsie Lieberman thought that they would do the tapings at television studios, but that turned out to be very expensive, even though the television studios were very gracious in giving us some kind of

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a break. But it was just too much for our budget, which was never very high. The grant money that we got was for a very small salary for me and mostly for the tapings.

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That's what the money was for. After we decided that was not going to work, we were very, very fortunate that Larry Katz, who recently passed away in our community,

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a pillar of the Jewish community. He was, had been the president of the Baltimore Jewish Council, but he was also the Dean of the School of Law at the University of Baltimore.

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And they had someone there like you who was in charge of the audiovisual, and he was the most wonderful person. And Larry... He was a young man, and Larry asked him if he would like to do some freelance work and he said he would.

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Of course we paid him and and on two Sundays a month for years afterwards we went to the University of Baltimore and he videotaped the interviews. Never was late, never forgot to come. He was the most wonderful person.

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Brian Kocsis was his name and we were so fortunate to have him. Somewhere along the line, Arnold Kleiner from WMAR did give us a gift of ten free tapings, which was very, very gracious. And also at some point, which I was having trouble remembering

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why, I think there might have been construction at the University of Baltimore, because that's where we were doing the interviews. We asked Beth El if we could use one of their pretty meeting rooms,

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and Gil Kleiner at the time was the executive director. He was very gracious. So we did a good number of interviews towards the end of our program at Beth El. So we were really very, very fortunate because doing a videotaped

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interview, as you can tell from what's happening today, is quite technical and requires a lot of of things that a audio tape interview does not require, including the presence of the survivor and the survivor being able

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to, being willing to be honest and show emotions and maybe show pictures and that kind of thing. So it's quite a project and we were very proud to have done what we did. Ashley Todd-Diaz: Well, to that point,

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I mean, how many people weren't willing to provide an interview? Froma Willen: Not many, not many. There were some who

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just didn't want to do it. They'd never talked and they didn't want to talk at this point. It might interest you to know that when Steven Spielberg came along, some of those people changed their minds.

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You know, I think they really thought that Steven Spielberg was going to be in their living room, which was not what happened. Steven Spielberg had his own cadre of interviewers, of course. But you had asked me in some of the preliminary questions whether there were

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any problems with the survivors after the interviews. We had set up with the Jewish Family Services that if there were, they would have counseling immediately and Jewish Family Services would step in.

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It only happened one time after 142 interviews. And I think it was partly due to the interests and the preliminary rapport that we established with the survivors. I mean, by the time they came, they had talked to me several times,

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they had talked to the interviewers several times. They were coming to a familiar environment in terms of the people that were going to be interviewing them. And also the very fact that they agreed to do the interview meant that they were

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ready. The one time that we had a problem, and it was a serious problem, but the woman, who I became quite friendly with, had gone to Aruba and married a non-Jew to get her out of Germany. It was right after Kristallnacht and there was some movement at that point

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between the German government and this Shell Oil company. I'm pretty sure it was Aruba that there were people there who would be willing to marry young women if they wanted to get them out of Germany. And it turned out that she had a very happy marriage and had two wonderful

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children, but never really identified herself as Jewish. She lived in a non-Jewish neighborhood of Baltimore and it was only later in life when people began to talk about the Holocaust more that she realized she

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might have something to say. And one of her friends... She volunteered at the Science Museum and one of her friends there who was Jewish encouraged her to do this interview. But it was difficult from the get-go.

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And I think part of it was the story and part of it was that she was exposing herself in a way to the Jewish community that she had not her whole life, but she was completely taken care of by Jewish Family Services and anyone else that needed to be involved.

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And interestingly enough, years, several years later, she moved to Memphis, Tennessee, where her daughter lived. And she wrote to me one day, we had a very close friendship, that she

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had been interviewed by Steven Spielberg and it went beautifully. So that's the one story I can tell about. But otherwise, the survivors, all 141 of them, they were just wonderful. Wonderful, wonderful people.

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Elaine Mael: I would want to follow up and ask about the interviewers, if they needed any kind of support. Froma Willen: Yes, I saw that that was one of your preliminary questions and it was never an issue.

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Our interviewers were all well educated generally, they were active in the Jewish community for the most part. One or two were not, but nevertheless sophisticated people and they knew what they were getting into.

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And we... They were well trained, as I said, they had the history. They were trained by the people at Yale. They had many, many hours of training. So by the time they sat down for an interview, they were prepared.

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And if they were not, they would have said so. You know, if they didn't think they could do it or it bothered them too much, they would have said so. We never had one moment of problems, and we all stayed friendly for many years.

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And, as I said before, many of them stayed friendly with the survivors, which was even more important. Excuse me. Ashley Todd-Diaz: Did the interviewers typically conduct more than one interview or did they

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really focus in on... Froma Willen: Oh, yes. I mean, we had 42 interviewers and 142 interviews, so there were many and I... After a while I got to know who would be the best interviewer.

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It wasn't a question of who was available, it was a question of who I thought would work well in this setting and who might have expressed an interest in this particular subject matter. So I was very keen on getting the right interviewers for the right interview.

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And many of them did several interviews. And we had... I remember I had a party at my house once for the interviewers. It's just so we could get together and talk about what we've done and what some

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of their questions and concerns were. And we did one year have a reunion of the people that had given the interviews and of the interviewers. And that was wonderful.

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The survivors were so happy to come and so happy to see their interviewers, even though in some cases they hadn't seen them since the day of the interview, and express their pride in having been given the opportunity to tell their story. It was a very warm and and loving moment that we did.

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Ashley Todd-Diaz: Well, it sounds like this really was a project that touched many aspects of the community and many institutions in Baltimore. And Baltimore Hebrew College was selected as the repository for the finished videos, and in addition to cataloguing and

00:27:11.450 - 00:27:21.720

processing and housing the testimonies, BHC was the location where the videos could be viewed. So was that partnership something that was intended from the beginning of the project?

00:27:22.120 - 00:27:34.640

Froma Willen: You know, I am embarrassed to say that I don't remember. I have been over all of my notes several times and I just don't remember what the impetus was.

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I do remember working with Doctor Leslie and Andrew Johnson and being very involved in the cataloguing of the interviews and in making it clear that the privacy issues were respected, and all of that came from Yale.

00:27:56.320 - 00:28:11.940

There were lots and lots of privacy restrictions. How it started I don't know, whether it was Netsie Lieberman who started it or maybe somebody from Baltimore Hebrew University, but in the end, I, you know,

00:28:11.940 - 00:28:29.320

it was my job to make sure that it got done. And we were very, very happy to do it. And I must say, we were a little concerned, you know, when Baltimore Hebrew University was no longer going to be Baltimore Hebrew

00:28:29.320 - 00:28:42.800

University. But it turns out that it's been wonderful, that this association with Towson University has been beyond our wildest dreams. We couldn't have imagined it would be so wonderful,

00:28:42.800 - 00:29:03.440

but because Yale had so many restrictions on how these interviews would be used and privacy of the names of the survivors and all of that, it was not easy to get this set up. But the people, especially Andrew Johnson was just wonderful,

00:29:03.440 - 00:29:18.920

and we really work together very well. And by the time I gave him the last couple of tapes, I felt very good about the fact that we had this in the community, but I really didn't know how much it was used.

00:29:19.360 - 00:29:36.110

And I don't know from your perspective, you know, how much it is used at Towson, but we hoped that it would be used. Ashley Todd-Diaz: That is a good question. I mean, Yale has continued to really be the

00:29:36.110 - 00:29:52.360

primary leader in terms of access, but we could probably find out. Froma Willen: How many people use it and who they are. Ashley Todd-Diaz: Yeah, and how many people within the Baltimore area have been accessing that. Froma Willen: Right, right.

00:29:52.880 - 00:30:16.120

It would be interesting to know. But we always felt actually that our primary job was to put our tapes at Yale. And at Yale, they were known for having scholars come and write books and dissertations and make films based upon those interviews.

00:30:16.120 - 00:30:31.120

Now, how many they made based upon our interviews, I wouldn't know, but we were... We were very happy that we were able to contribute, even in a small way, to the success of the Fortunoff Archive.

00:30:31.880 - 00:30:47.230

The Baltimore Hebrew Archive was an extra added attraction as far as we were concerned. Elaine Mael: Was there any attempt made, excuse me, by the council to promote the existence of the tapes, to let people know that they were there?

00:30:47.230 - 00:30:59.880

Froma Willen: At Baltimore Hebrew? I can't remember that there were. Whenever we did a report for the Associated, it was always included. I have all the paperwork here to show you.

00:31:01.440 - 00:31:18.880

But as far as... Well, I think that's probably not true because there were articles in the Jewish Times and in the Baltimore Sun about our program and it was always mentioned once the archive was set up, but it wasn't set up until I think '91.

00:31:19.360 - 00:31:38.730

So we had already been taping for quite a while before '91. But once it was set up, we definitely made mention of it when it was appropriate. And it seems to me that we had a meeting once at Baltimore Hebrew

00:31:38.730 - 00:31:50.960

University, trying to remember what the circumstances were. I remember speaking, I had a speech to give about the tapes.

00:31:50.960 - 00:32:11.560

I think it might have been the dedication of that archive. I think that might have been what it was because it was a fairly important meeting. Shale Stiller ran it and there were a lot of people there and I remember talking about what was contained in the archive and how we had assembled them

00:32:11.560 - 00:32:25.440

and what the process was. The same kind of talk we're having today. And I'm pretty sure that must have been the dedication of the archive. So we didn't ignore it by any stretch of the imagination.

00:32:25.800 - 00:32:47.520

We were glad that it was there, and I worked very closely with Andy Johnson whenever we gave them a tape to make sure they were catalogued properly. Ashley Todd-Diaz: So when you think back about your time at Baltimore Jewish Council, do you find that this project kind of gave definition to your time there or...

00:32:47.920 - 00:32:59.760

Froma Willen: Well, that's an interesting question. I wouldn't have been there had it not been for the project. I mean, I was a freelance person, more or less. Netsie Lieberman and I had worked together at Park School.

00:33:00.560 - 00:33:15.600

She was the development director and I was the alumni director. And for various reasons, we no longer worked there, but we remained in contact. So when [Sidriya Quate] got sick, Netsie called me and asked me if I'd be

00:33:15.600 - 00:33:31.440

interested in this. And it sounded like some pot of gold had been dropped in my lap. You know, having grown up in the Jewish community and been educated in the Jewish community, it was something I couldn't turn down.

00:33:31.440 - 00:33:46.200

And it really did change my life in that sense. When... For those six years or five and a half years that I was there, I was fully engrossed in the Jewish community in terms of Holocaust remembrance.

00:33:46.720 - 00:34:08.040

The fact that we had assembled this larger group of Holocaust survivors meant that when Holocaust Remembrance Day came around, Yom HaShoah, we were able to spread our wings into the community and give talks and go to people's houses who invited people to hear stories.

00:34:08.440 - 00:34:24.830

And I was extremely involved in that, assembling them and going to some of the houses. It changed my life in many ways. During the the time that I was there, I went to Yad Vashem for their summer

00:34:24.830 - 00:34:36.930

institute for Holocaust educators. At the time, I thought maybe after the program was over I might do some teaching. It turned out that didn't happen, mainly because we spent half the year in

00:34:36.930 - 00:34:53.620

Florida, but at the time I didn't know that was going to happen. But I did have this wonderful experience in Israel for a month, and it was just unforgettable and learned an awful lot about the Holocaust during

00:34:53.620 - 00:35:10.970

that time. There were other things that we did in conjunction with this. In December of '93, we, Netsie and I put together... It was really Netsie's baby, a concert at the Museum of Art featuring

00:35:10.970 - 00:35:27.260

one of our survivors who was a concert pianist. She was from Hungary and what we did was... And it got support from the Catholic community. I think the Archbishop even spoke that day,

00:35:27.260 - 00:35:45.780

and we had a full house at the museum. And Agi, the pianist, gave a concert. And then she and I talked about her experiences, which were, sadly, the typical Hungarian experience, which happened late but which was

00:35:45.780 - 00:35:57.860

terrible when it happened. And she was well-known in Baltimore, and I think that's why there were so many people there. But that was another way in which what seemed like a simple job, you know,

00:35:57.860 - 00:36:07.840

coordinating Holocaust interviews, turned out to be something much bigger than that. So it made a big difference. Even though I did not...

00:36:08.440 - 00:36:22.000

I could have taken over the role of Holocaust remembrance at the council had I wanted to. But by that time we... My husband was semi- retired and we were starting to go to Florida.

00:36:22.000 - 00:36:36.400

It just wasn't possible for me to have a real job, so I didn't. But I remained very interested and active in terms of Holocaust remembrance. And I did actually... I did interview for Steven Spielberg a couple of times.

00:36:36.960 - 00:37:00.930

And when I was in Florida, there were some things that I got involved with because of my knowledge of the territory, so to speak. Elaine Mael: You've given us such a wide view of what was going on before, during, and after. So I would have to ask you if there are any other thoughts about the project that

00:37:00.930 - 00:37:13.600

you'd like to share with us. Froma Willen: Well, as I say, it changed my life. It gave me a real understanding of what my mother was trying to teach me all those years.

00:37:14.480 - 00:37:33.090

Oh, and another thing I forgot to tell you later on, In fact, in 2001, right before 9/11, I went with Beth El to Eastern Europe. And that, again, was another facet in the whole way that

00:37:33.090 - 00:37:48.530

this program changed my life. I don't know that I would have even gone had it not been from my experience and Rabbi Loeb of blessed memory asked me to talk at the Martyrology service at Yom Kippur

00:37:48.530 - 00:38:06.150

that year about our trip and what we had found and what we hadn't found and how the Holocaust impacted everything that we saw and what was left and wasn't left. And it was very meaningful to everybody,

00:38:06.150 - 00:38:21.320

but it was especially meaningful to me. And I did give that talk at the Martyrology service. So really Netsie Lieberman did me a big favor. But more importantly, I am proud of the work that we did.

00:38:22.720 - 00:38:34.370

It was hard work. We worked very hard. I myself, not only scheduling the interviews and scheduling the interviewers, but typing up the notes,

00:38:34.370 - 00:38:50.320

making sure that tapes got to Yale, being in touch with the survivors. There was a lot to it, and it kept me very busy as a freelance person who was only supposed to be working one or two days a week,

00:38:51.040 - 00:39:05.920

I was practically there full time. But it was the hap... And I don't want to use the word "happy" because it was not a happy subject matter. And people would ask me, they would say, weren't you depressed?

00:39:05.920 - 00:39:24.320

And I would say no. In some ways it was inspiring, but it was very serious work. That was what I would tell people. When, on those rare occasions during those six years that I went on a vacation,

00:39:24.320 - 00:39:34.840

I was aware that something had been lifted, not a depression, but it was serious. It was something that we couldn't mess up. We had to do right.

00:39:35.440 - 00:39:52.730

And we did, you know, with all of us together, the interviewers, Netsie, myself, the wonderful survivors, it was something that we did well and we were very proud of. Elaine Mael: Was there, to your knowledge, a community of other people in different

00:39:52.730 - 00:40:10.210

cities who were doing the same thing that you were? And if you were aware of them, did you have any interactions with them or any kind of communication or networking to help each other? Froma Willen: No. The only communication we had at the time was with Yale,

00:40:10.210 - 00:40:22.320

and they were extremely helpful. I mean, if I wasn't sure about a certain interview and wasn't sure how to approach it, I could always call Joanne or Donna.

00:40:22.320 - 00:40:34.800

Donna, it turned out, was one of my childhood friends and she had moved to New Haven. I hadn't seen her in years. And we reestablished our friendship and to this day are the best of friends.

00:40:35.160 - 00:40:49.000

And because of that, through Donna, in Florida, I have met several of the other people who were doing this work, but I didn't know them at the time. But we did have a lot in common

00:40:49.000 - 00:41:03.480

and, you know, we had a lot to talk about when we didn't meet each other. But at the time, I think we were just too busy to think about what other people were doing.

00:41:04.000 - 00:41:24.090

Going to Yad Vashem did raise my awareness of what was happening and what wasn't happening in the rest of the world and the rest of the country and how important the work we were doing was. And some of the people that I met at Yad

00:41:24.090 - 00:41:41.520

Vashem, I think there were some conferences afterwards that that somehow touched on the subject of videotaping, but it was still so new then that even, I remember at Yad Vashem, some people just didn't think it was very important.

00:41:41.560 - 00:42:05.350

It was too new and too untested. But then, I mean, after 1992, when the Holocaust Museum opened and they started videotaping and also filming because, again, they had the technology, it became obvious that there was just no comparison to an audio tape interview and

00:42:05.350 - 00:42:22.380

a videotape interview. There had been a lot of audio tape interviews. Once the Eichmann trial took place in '61 and the Holocaust survivors opened up after many years of not being asked to and not wanting to talk,

00:42:22.380 - 00:42:33.720

there had been a great number of audio tapes and audio archives, but it couldn't compare to a video archive. And it took a while. I mean, it took a while

00:42:33.920 - 00:42:54.560

even when Steven Spielberg started his program in '94, it was already, you know, six years after we started our program, and it was still considered something unusual and something new. So it took a while for people to accept that this was really the best thing to do.

00:42:55.480 - 00:43:12.240

And... But as far as knowing what other people were doing, no, we didn't, or even who they were. But I have since then found out who they were. Ashley Todd-Diaz: Well, thank you.

00:43:12.720 - 00:43:27.120

Froma Willen: Oh, you're welcome. Ashley Todd-Diaz: I mean, that concludes our questions. We really appreciate your time and being willing to share. Your thoughtful answers are a great contribution in terms of the record of

00:43:27.120 - 00:43:45.660

what occurred in Baltimore and what was done to help remember the Holocaust survivors experiences and... Froma Willen: Well, thank you. It's, you know, in some ways it's sad, in a way, that we're in the place where we are now in our country and in the world with

00:43:45.660 - 00:44:01.100

anti-Semitism again on the rise. You know, we really thought that we had solved the problem, you know, that the Holocaust Museum was open and people would see all of these videotapes and realize that the Holocaust deniers

00:44:01.100 - 00:44:15.520

did not know what they were talking about. This was real. And yet it hasn't really worked the way we hoped it would work. Those of us who did this work were are very sad right now at what's

00:44:15.520 - 00:44:35.400

happening. But we realize that it's ingrained in history and in people's minds, and it's probably never going to go away, but we had hoped for better. But we certainly hope that the work we did at least helps it, at least

00:44:35.400 - 00:44:47.040

ameliorates it a little bit, if nothing else. And we just have hope for the future. Ashley Todd-Diaz: Thank you. Froma Willen: You're quite welcome.