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Greetings. We welcome you once again to another interview in the Oral History Project sponsored by TURFA, the Towson University Retired Faculty Association.

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Welcome, Fran. Glad to have you here today. Thank you. Good to be here.

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We're going to start at the very beginning. Where were you born? I was born in Baltimore on January the 8th, 1934. My parents were immigrants to this country from Italy and so they settled in

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the Italian community, Little Italy. So that's where I spent my early years. I was baptized at Saint Leo's Church Francesca Madalena Torino and then went to Saint Leo's school until I was about eight years old.

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And then we moved to northern Baltimore City, and it was like the suburbs, there were trees and grass and such. And so we lived there. And I went to parochial school and went to parochial high school there,

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the Catholic High School there. And then at some point you graduate from high school, decide to go to college. And it happened to be Towson. Why did you pick Towson?

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Well, when I graduated from high school, I was seventeen years old and I wanted to go in the convent and my father and my mother felt that I was too young and they wanted me to wait until I was at least eighteen to go in the convent. So in that interval year, they thought it was best if I went to

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college for a year. And lo and behold, Maryland State Teachers College had a program where you could go four years tuition free and become a teacher, but you had to pledge to teach for two years after you graduated.

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So this just worked out wonderfully then. I did go to college and never thought back to the convent again. And it was called Maryland State Teachers College. Yes.

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And what year did you come? I came in 1951, and when I came in 1951, I remember like it was yesterday, standing on the steps of Stevens Hall with maybe 150 other freshmen ready to enroll in classes.

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And at that time, Stevens was the administration building, and the classroom building, and there were about, I guess, five other buildings on campus, the physical plant, Glen Esk, Van Bokkelen, and two women's dorms.

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And shortly after that, two men's dorms were were built during that time. So that was the campus. And honestly, there was something that happened to me

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standing there. I fell in love with Towson. And as I said, I never looked back to the convent. But then in the next couple of years more men came and that's why they had to build

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two dormitories for men West and Ward that were billed for men because more men were coming into the college. So after you graduated from Towson what did you do next? Well, I was in early childhood education and

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that encompassed teaching kindergarten to third grade. And I knew in my heart I wanted to be a kindergarten teacher. But there were very few counties, Montgomery County and Baltimore City had kindergartens in their programs at that time.

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And so I took a job teaching kindergarten in Baltimore City and I loved it. But then I stayed with teaching for for a while with the kindergarten class. At some point you went out to graduate school then, didn't you? Yes, I did.

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And where was that? Well, Towson offered a graduate program in 1957, and the program was completed in 1960. And there were seven of us in the graduating class.

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And because I had changed my name from Francesca Torino to Fran Bond, I was the first one to walk across the stage. So Towson truly designates me as the first graduate of the graduate program at Towson.

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And a few years ago, they had a celebration for the graduate school and they invited me to speak as the first graduate of the graduate program at Towson. So that's notable. That's wonderful.

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So you got... So that was a master's degree? Yes. OK.

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Any other degrees beyond the master's degree? Yes. I got my PhD in human development at College Park. At that time, I had four children.

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My youngest son was five and I had four sons and I commuted to College Park and there was not the highway that it is now from Baltimore to College Park. And what I did was take two classes on one day, like class at four and class at seven. And that was as much as I could handle because I was working full time and had

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these four children. My mother and my husband were very supportive. But it took about seven years, I think, for me to complete that that PhD. I got that in human development with a concentration in early childhood

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education. But it was a long haul. One day I remember I was going to, taking my five-year-old to kindergarten and I said to him, oh I'm so nervous because I have a big

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test today. And this was when I was at College Park. And he said to me, oh, don't worry. He said, I took that test the other day and the first answer is red.

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So. So I was completely relaxed taking that test, knowing I could pass that test. Now you eventually, of course, have a career in higher education. What made you decide to develop a career in higher education?

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You know, the career in higher education, I think, decided on me, which sounds very unusual. But in 1962 I received a phone call from a faculty member in the College of Education or the Education department at that time, Maud Broyles.

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And she said, Francis, we have half day kindergarten available here at Lida Lee Tall. Would you be interested in interviewing for that position? Well, you know, I thought I had died and gone to heaven

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because I remembered the campus school as being a focus point for the students in education. We would go to the campus school, observe the teachers, work with the children.

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I mean, it was a privilege to do this. So I went for my interview on a hot summer day, met with the faculty in the Department of Education and the faculty at Lida Lee Tall and got the position working half-time kindergarten.

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At that time Lida Lee Tall had kindergarten to sixth grade, two classes of each. It had just... I started there in '62. In 1960, they built a brand new state-of-the-art

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children's school. It was wonderful. And Doctor Genevieve Heagney was the principal. She had been a student at Teachers College in New York and had just very

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progressive ideas about teaching young children. Most of the children who attended Lida Lee Tall were children of faculty. But then that expanded into the 70s where we took in more community children.

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I enjoyed that so much. In 1991, Lida Lee Tall closed because of budget constraints. It was just so sad for everyone, so sad that we no longer had that

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wonderful model campus school where teacher education students could see premier teachers and children working together. So I was very sad with that. And where on campus was the Lida Lee Tall school located?

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Where the arts and science building now is located. The school closed in 1991, but then the building was not demolished for a couple of years. But every time I pass that arts and science building,

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I just get a little ping in my heart thinking about the wonderful years that I had there. And as I said, I taught there in 1962 and in 1964 I was invited to teach at Lida Lee Tall half-time and come to the

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Department of Education part time. And I did that, but it was difficult because I was really part of two faculties. I was part of the Lida Lee Tall faculty and part of the department faculty,

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but I didn't want to lose that opportunity. In the department I mostly supervised kindergarten teachers in Baltimore City, so that was primarily my job there. I see what you mean when you said you backed into higher education, that it was

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through Lida Lee Tall. Yes. Who was Lida Lee Tall? She was one of the principles of, I guess, Towson when it first started and the

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building was named for her in 1965. I left Lida Lee Tall and became a full- time faculty member in the department. When you first came here, who was the president of the university? Earl Hawkins was the president.

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He was a wonderful progressive person and it was just the time when he arrived here that higher education was given significance in the whole United States and he even travelled to Pakistan and to Philippines to see their higher education program and brought back some of those things.

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He made significant gains in this university. First of all, enrollment improved from 800 to 8,000 when he left. There were eleven new buildings on campus when he left and he wanted to take away,

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and I don't mean stigma as such, but that we were a teacher education and he wanted to focus more on the arts and sciences. And when he left, there were programs in business and international education in the arts and sciences.

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So he did a significant role in changing the whole focus of Towson and then the name changed because of that. And we were no longer Teachers College, but Towson State College. But he was very, very progressive and very,

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very respected in the community and in the state. One of the things that I thought was just so interesting, he lived with his wife in Glen Esk, which was the president's home. And every year they had a tea for freshmen and their home had a wraparound

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porch to it, and they had the tea on the grounds of the home and the girls all dressed in their finery with their gloves and their hats. And they were such wonderful hostesses.

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And then when I was a faculty member, they had dinners for faculty and their home and their downstairs had five rooms. And because of his travels overseas, he had memorabilia all over the house from the countries that he had visited.

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They were wonderful, wonderful people. And he was just always smiling and always interacting with people. Are there any other presidents... There were several presidents, I know,

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were there any other presidents you remember that you'd like to talk about? Yes. After Hawkins came Jim Fisher, and again there was somebody who was charismatic and who was going to take where Hawkins left off and take Towson to

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another whole realm. And from there, when he came, enrollment was about 8,000 and it went to 15,000 when he was there. He created programs and places in the

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governance for deans and for vice presidents, the first office of minority relations, and he was very, very strong. And I understand that there was some friction between he and the governor in

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changing the name to Towson State University, and he had to fight for that, you know, tooth and nail. But that was something that he accomplished. Another thing that he accomplished which affected me and was very,

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very successful was the scheduling for classes. Prior, the fall semester went into January and then the spring semester started later. Well, he did away with that and had the fall semester end in December and then there was a whole month, January,

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called minimester, and that gave students an opportunity to take classes or to travel. And as I said, it affected me because I had an opportunity then with a faculty member, Eleanor Karfgin,

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to take early childhood students during minimester to England. And we went to England for two weeks in minimester. The students stayed in people's residence and then had an opportunity to visit schools in England, the early childhood programs,

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and again they had some very progressive ideas about learning with young children. So we took the first group of students, I think ten students, and that program increased every year. And then we brought it even to the summer and had the travel abroad.

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So that minimester was good. It gave an opportunity to do that. One thing about the Fishers, he and his wife Barbara had four children and they moved into Glen Esk when they first arrived.

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And after a few months, they felt where Glen Esk was located, that, and Barbara told me, they felt they were living in a fishbowl, you know, with the children all around. And so they moved, they left the the president's house and

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they moved to Wiltondale, which was close by. And that was the end of presidents living in Glen Esk. The building turned into a counseling center. I was very close to them because I had a son, James,

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who was in kindergarten with John, who was in kindergarten the same. And they became the best of friends. And so we would have play dates as they call them. And often James went over to their house and played with John in the afternoon

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when I was teaching. So that was a fun time for them. And he kept in touch with John for quite a long time. And any other presidents after Roberts you want to come?

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Well, I think I'll leave it there. There were so many, I mean Hoke Smith and so many that I had a great relationship with. But those two did so much in bringing this university further with the

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enrollment and the classes and the governance of the university, just so much. When did you first come to Towson to teach? Well, I came 1962. I consider my job at Lida Lee Tall as my official date of

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beginning. 1962. And when did you retire? I retired in 1994. Are there any other physical locations on campus that are just dear to your heart?

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Yes, I think the Glen itself, you know, and now that ten acres of wooded area for decades has been used as a lab and research, but it had even more meaning to me because it was also used for social events.

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You know, the Glen Players had a lot of plays there in the Glen. And then there was May Day that was celebrated right there. And I was fortunate to go to two weddings in the Glen, one wedding,

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a faculty member's daughter got married and another was a student who got married there in the Glen. So the Glen, it was just a very tranquil place with just lots of beauty and calmness.

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What went on there on May Day? There was the maypole and then they had little concession booths where they sold peppermint sticks and lemons and food to eat. And then there was the crowning of the May Queen. And with Glen Esk,

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some of the... One thing that just has surprised me so much about Glen Esk, it was built by a family in about 1903, 1905, and Maryland State Normal School bought it in 1915. And when I think about the building itself, it was, it had electricity,

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it had running water, it had all of these amenities that I feel so surprised about that a house built in that era would have all of those things. It just surprised me

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so. And of course, now the building isn't there at all. And that, oh my goodness, that and Lida Lee Tall. I always felt that that building, as historical as it was,

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should have been moved somewhere on campus. I mean, I think it's wonderful that the health professional building is there, but I did not see any reason why couldn't they take that building to move it somewhere else because it was just such a

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historical place on campus. And when you had that joint appointment with Lida Lee Tall and the education program, where was the education program housed? In Linthicum, I believe.

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Over the course of your career, what courses, undergraduate and graduate, what courses were you teaching? I was teaching undergraduate and graduate courses in early childhood education and then supervising student teachers.

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And at one time I taught or I developed an independent study course. And this was something that I just wanted to try. I would give my lectures on cassette tapes and the student would take the tapes home, listen to the lectures and then we would

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meet one day a week to discuss the information on there. It was a very naive, primitive way to begin independent study courses, but that worked extremely well. And when you were full-time in in the education program,

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what was your teaching load? Well, it was four three-credit courses, but student teach... If you had student teaching, I think it was four student teachers equaled one class hour.

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So that made the change in that. And what were the courses that you taught? I taught a course called Block One, which was an early childhood course, an introductory course to early childhood.

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Now, that course, again, was very unique. There was a physical education person, a science person, a music person, and an art person and an education person. And we didn't have separate disciplines.

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All of us met together every Friday and planned the course. So if we were talking about clouds, it would be not only the science person relating to that subject matter, but then how do you relate dance to that? How do you relate art to that?

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How do you relate, you know, music to that? And you know what happened with that course? It became too expensive because everybody's load was counted in on one course and so they couldn't carry it.

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But that course was used as a model for other courses and we did lots of presentations across the country on that course because it was so unique. And the faculty members who worked on that course with me, we were just so congenial.

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We had so much fun that that fun and closeness very reflected on the students learning. Then in your supervising student teachers, tell me what took place when you were doing that.

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Well, I would observe in the classroom. And most of the time, of course, they knew I was coming and they planned, you know, a special lesson for me to observe. And I would sit, probably, not to be too, you know,

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visible in the classroom because the children would say, who's that lady? Who's that lady? Is she your mother? I'd say, no, I'm not her mother.

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And after that, then I would sit down with the student and I would try to have them reflect on how did you think the lesson went? What would you do differently? What might you change in the lesson?

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And then I might give some suggestions and such for that and say, well, you know, did you notice that the children were not responding? Or, you know, did you notice that someone wanted to say something and you just went on, you know, with the lesson and such.

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And early childhood education goes up to to what level? Kindergarten to third grade and then elementary was first to the fifth grade. Were you ever an administrator in the College of Education? I was, I was.

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Well, first, I was chairperson of the early childhood department and we were, as I said, a small department, but a very dedicated group of teachers. One time, and this sticks in my mind, Middle States came to do an evaluation

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and in their final evaluation, when they presented their evaluation to the whole college, university, they pointed out that early childhood had such a wonderful, focused, well-run program and they just pointed out early childhood out of the whole place.

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Well, I felt like I was going to fall off my chair with that and it was just such a wonderful thing. When I was chairperson of early childhood, two programs emerged. One was the student daycare.

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There was a place in Lida Lee Tall where students could drop off their children any age, any time of day, there was not a set schedule, and have certified teachers work with their children during the the time.

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I think there's still a student daycare, but I mean, it emerged and emerged and emerged, but we started the first student daycare program. And then another program, and I keep saying, you know, this was just an innovative program,

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but this was truly an innovative program. It was called the Parent Infant Center. Aliza Brandwine was, again, another very creative person. And this was an idea where parents and teachers and children would come together

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so parents would get expertise in working with their own children. And some of the parents in that program were there by order of the court that they were ordered to come and get some parenting skills. The room in Lida Lee Tall was basically divided into two parts.

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There was a part called the lounge where the parents met and sat around and discussed parenting. And then another area was a play area where teachers worked with their children so they could observe their children working with teachers and then they had

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an opportunity to work with them. And as I said, there were a few parents in there that were court-ordered. One of the things about that program was it was funded by the university,

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but there were outside funds that were very, very well done. Procter and Gamble contributed a lot to that program. When that program closed, when Lida Lee Tall and the education program lost those, the program was moved to Baltimore County.

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Baltimore County wanted that program as part of their system, and it was called the ABC program, the Aliza Brandwine Center, and all of that money that was in the foundation from Procter and Gamble and other sources went to Baltimore County to provide sources

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for them. And that program was about in three or four different public schools in Baltimore County. Last time I heard it was still in existence, but I don't know.

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But it was so innovative to help these parents become good, responsive parents with their children. You know, we often take parenting as just, you know, it's there and we do it. But there are people who do need help in using that skills.

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And I think you were also another administrator too, at work. Yes, I was. I was Associate Dean in the College of Education. Jim Binko became Dean in 1979, and then there was no other Associate

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Dean. So in 1980, I was appointed Associate Dean and Jim and I worked so well together and it was like finding our way because he'd never worked with an Associate Dean.

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And being an Associate Dean, I didn't know. But we just worked so well and our jobs just meshed. I worked primarily with the chairs, the early childhood in the elementary and the secondary chairs, as my job as Associate Dean.

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And then I had responsibilities outside with associations like Maryland Association of Colleges of Teacher Education and such. So that was my job as an Associate Dean too. Over the course of your career, did you see any changes in the student

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population? You know, I thought about that. I don't think I really did because I think, again,

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the students I saw were very dedicated and many of them were first-generation college students and there was a sense of pride to be there and a sense of pride to accomplish what they came to do. So that's the kind of spirit I saw in the students with that.

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And were the students all interested in going into early childhood education or were they just experimenting, maybe that's a possible future? No, I think they were.

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And I... There were steps along the way that would have them determine. Their first course, maybe, introduction to teaching, where they would have the opportunity to say, this is not for me, or faculty would say, you know,

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have you really thought that this is for you? So that there were step places along the way where they could make decisions about that. We didn't wait until they, you know, here it is,

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June graduation and I'm a teacher. Oh, I didn't want to do this. You know, we did.... We really did some helping to ensure that this is what they wanted to do.

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Was there ever a point where you really wanted to go back and teach in the early childhood period? Absolutely. And, you know, I used to say when I did some other

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things, you know, I don't know if I've gone up or down in my career because teaching kindergarten was the best time that I had. And have I gone up, taking these other jobs? Have I gone down with them?

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Now let's go on from retirement. And when you retired from Towson, did you teach anywhere else afterwards? Not teaching per se, not classroom teaching per se, but I had other careers in which I had used my teaching skills.

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And, you know, I think it's important for students or for graduates to know that, again, they're not limited to teaching in the classroom, being an early childhood teacher, The skills that they obtain in teacher education really penetrate to other other

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jobs and so that they can use their skills in other ways with that. And a lot of them at the time went into daycare. A couple of the students went into programs in hospitals and were teachers in hospitals too, hospital care, so that they were early

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childhood teachers. But I think that the teaching and learning that we gave to them spread beyond the classroom, made them essential to learners all over. I know that you did several things after you retired,

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much more than most other people do, I must admit. But let's go through each of them. You were a consultant. What kind of consultant were you?

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Well, I was a consultant when I... Kind of my last step there, was a consultant in Baltimore City with Baltimore City teachers, kindergarten, early childhood teachers in literacy.

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It was a program, they had been funded for a year to update their curriculum to include literacy through literature, through children's literature. And so I worked with the teachers in expanding that skill and incorporating

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that in the programs. And then you had a presidential appointment of some kind. What was that all about? Well, it started out, and again, it's serendipity.

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And for a while, I think people thought I couldn't hold a job, but it was just going from one place to another. Towson had, and I don't know how many people even knew this.

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Towson had something called a Peace Corps Fellows program. And this was a program, the teacher education program, and I was the coordinator. This was a program for returning Peace Corps volunteers where they could go to colleges, get a master's degree for free,

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and teach in underserved areas in Baltimore. And for them, it gave them a chance to continue their volunteer spirit. So we had a program here at Towson.

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And the director of the Washington program was Henry Fernandez, and he came to Towson to evaluate the program at some point. And in 1994, he came to Towson and we sat down and talked about the program and he said, you know,

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we have a position in Washington as an associate director of the Peace Corps Fellows Program. And what that involves is we want to expand the program beyond teacher education.

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We want people to come back and get health education or business education, and we want the programs to be throughout the country. Do you think you'd like to do that? And I said, I don't know.

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He said, oh, you know, you could be in Washington and do all this. You get free rein. And the more I thought about that, the more I thought, well, you know,

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I've been here thirty-two years, maybe I should retire and do something like that. And so immediately I retired, went to Washington and took this program and we were able to expand it.

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It was in Texas and in California, all over the country. And we had programs in business and in health education. And the volunteers would come. That program is still in existence in the Peace Corps today.

00:34:45.160 - 00:34:56.080

And my grandson is in the Peace Corps now in Columbia. And when he comes back, we had a program at Teachers College in Columbia in New York.

00:34:56.360 - 00:35:08.480

And when he gets out of the Peace Corps, he said he's going to go to that fellows program there. So it's tuition-free and you get to serve in the areas. It was a wonderful program.

00:35:08.480 - 00:35:27.090

And honestly, not because my grandson is a volunteer, but because volunteers are just so dedicated and so wonderful. And when I was in the Peace Corps, working in Washington, the director of the Peace Corps was Mark Garrett,

00:35:27.090 - 00:35:42.630

and he had been in the communications department of Bill Clinton. And he said to me, you know, you have all these teacher education skills. He said, how would you like to go to Third World

00:35:42.630 - 00:36:01.630

countries and do some training there for the volunteers? I said I'd love to. And so I went to Nepal and Kazakhstan and Romania and a few other places and with short-term visits, but I would do training for cultural

00:36:01.630 - 00:36:15.320

experiences so that the volunteers would be aware of what are the cultural differences in this country. Do I look a person in the eye when I talk to them? Do I look down?

00:36:15.640 - 00:36:22.960

Do I speak first? Do I let them speak? I mean, just little nuances like that were so important.

00:36:23.160 - 00:36:47.860

So I would go for maybe two weeks of training and then and then come back. One day I was doing training in Romania, and one of the rules was the director of the Peace Corps program in the country was very, very careful of anybody going over to the country because there were some mishaps

00:36:47.860 - 00:36:57.300

that happened. And he said to me, you're not to leave. At that time, I stayed at a hotel, but sometimes I stayed right with the

00:36:57.300 - 00:37:05.760

Peace Corps. And he said, you're not to leave your hotel room by yourself. If you want to go, you take a Peace Corps volunteer with you.

00:37:06.560 - 00:37:25.440

I said OK, and so I looked out my window and I saw, like, a fair right outside and I thought, oh, I need to buy some gifts to take home. So I went down and bought some gifts. And the next day he said to me, I heard you left the hotel on your own.

00:37:25.880 - 00:37:36.860

And I said yes. And he said the last thing I want to do is to call Washington and tell them something happened to you. And I said, oh, no, the last thing you want to do is call my

00:37:36.860 - 00:37:55.320

mother and say something happened to me because that would be really devastating. But I did try to sneak out a little bit on my own because even with a language barrier, I had no trouble. What's one of your fondest memories of doing your Peace Corps work?

00:37:55.840 - 00:38:14.880

I just loved travel. I loved working with the volunteers. I just loved being part of that community and the people who were associated. And as I said, Mark Aaron, who was the director, was so wonderful.

00:38:15.360 - 00:38:27.640

I'll tell you an experience that, I mean, here's the director of the Peace Corps. And one day he called me into my office. He called me into his office and he said, Fran, he said, I wanted to ask you something.

00:38:28.040 - 00:38:44.520

He said they had a little girl, Madeline, and she was four years old. And he said, I wanted to tell you that we're having another baby and how should I go about telling Madeline that she's going to have a a brother or sister?

00:38:44.720 - 00:39:01.120

I thought that was hilarious, but that's the kind of guy he was, you know, just right on the line with that. And he was the one that pushed me on to another career because in the Peace Corps, and this still holds true,

00:39:01.760 - 00:39:16.800

Tthe Peace Corps has a five-year limit on your work experience. And so when my five years were coming to an end, he said, what are you going to do? And I said, go back to Baltimore. He said, no, no, no, you can't go back to Baltimore.

00:39:17.360 - 00:39:33.160

He said, I have just a place where you should go, and I'm going to call on some favors to do this. And so he was the one who got me a presidential appointment with Secretary Riley at the Department of Education.

00:39:33.400 - 00:39:46.400

So that was from the Peace Corps. I went to Secretary Riley's office with that. And I have to say with Secretary Riley, he... My job number one was in charge of America Reads program.

00:39:46.720 - 00:40:02.910

But the second part, and this was the best part, Secretary Riley was promoting pre- kindergarten education, education for four-year-olds. And so I went around the country talking to school systems and parents about

00:40:02.910 - 00:40:18.600

preschool education and the importance of the early years because we'd learned so much about... The first three years of life were so important for a child's learning. So I went around the country talking about that and promoting that.

00:40:19.440 - 00:40:31.960

And you'd be surprised, or maybe not, how many parents said to me, Nope, nope, not going to send my child to school at age four. The government's not going to take over my child at age four.

00:40:32.440 - 00:40:49.960

Nope, nope, not going to do that. That their perception was that they wanted to have four-year-old programs so they can indoctrinate their child in some kind of learning and such. But I loved doing that and working with Secretary Riley was a real gift.

00:40:50.600 - 00:41:14.880

But unfortunately, because it was a presidential appointment, when the election turned the other way, I was out of a job. And but again, the door opened and PBS in Alexandria, Virginia, had an opening for a grant that they had just gotten called Ready to Learn.

00:41:15.320 - 00:41:31.840

And it was for children's programming. And they needed someone to work with the directors of the program and to have something on the Internet for parents on how they should work with their children when they watch these programs.

00:41:32.240 - 00:41:44.960

And the programs were Mr. Roger's Neighborhood, Sesame Street, Clifford the Big Red Dog, all of these, my grandchildren thought, oh, that's the best job you ever had. That's it.

00:41:44.960 - 00:42:03.780

That's wonderful because you get to meet all these people, you know. So I worked with PBS in Alexandria doing this for three years. And then I said, OK, you're going to go home. And so I came back to Baltimore and I took a job. Again,

00:42:03.780 - 00:42:17.360

it was through a meeting in a grocery store. I met the chairperson of Stevenson University Education Department and she said, oh, are you back in town? I said yes.

00:42:17.360 - 00:42:29.720

And she said, we're looking for people to supervise student teachers. Would you come and consider that at Stevenson? And I said sure, I'm not doing anything.

00:42:30.000 - 00:42:41.160

So I did. I worked with Stevenson for two years supervising student teachers. And then, as I said, I did some consulting work and and now I do volunteer work.

00:42:42.000 - 00:42:53.920

Let's go back and talk a little more about Towson. I could tell from when you're talking about Towson that you think it is a special place to you. It is. What really makes it a special place to you?

00:42:54.600 - 00:43:13.370

You know, I think it's not one thing. It's a combination. It's a combination of the administration, the teachers, the students, and the campus. And I think it's how they feel about this institution and how they portray that to

00:43:13.370 - 00:43:28.200

each other and to the students. So it's a special place because people work together in combination and it's not, you know, one-shoe-fits-all kind of thing. So that's what makes it so special.

00:43:28.400 - 00:43:46.120

And that's what makes it number one in the state because of that relationship that they have. The narrative that I just gave about Towson, the students and the faculty, I hope that shows people my love for Towson.

00:43:46.840 - 00:44:01.320

I hope it shows them how dedicated that I have been to Towson for 73 years, 73 years. Towson has given so much to me. You know,

00:44:01.800 - 00:44:18.290

it gave me my stellar education that I was able to do all those things. I met my husband here, my children went to school here, and then, of course, I had that wonderful career in teaching here that was just marvelous, where I met colleagues and friends and

00:44:18.290 - 00:44:38.400

such. And I think about all the Towson over those 73 years has given to me. And I kind of hope that one day I can just narrow the gap between what Towson has given to me and what I can give to Towson.

00:44:39.240 - 00:44:46.760

Well, you just maximized my love for Towson, that's for sure. Thank you. Let me see if anybody else has questions for you.

00:44:47.720 - 00:45:00.910

I have two questions, Gwen. One of them said, I wish you... Would you talk a little bit about the amazing spiral staircase, not really a staircase, but the spiral in the middle of Lida Lee Tall,

00:45:00.910 - 00:45:15.480

which is how people got in and got up the various floors? As I said, that building was designed for children, you know, and that was something that that was Genevieve Heagney's idea for that.

00:45:15.800 - 00:45:30.580

And the upper classes were up on the upper level and then there was like almost a slide that came down to the kindergarten. And I know, in fact, I was just talking about this

00:45:30.580 - 00:45:52.560

recently, on Sundays when I would work at the campus in the kindergarten, my children would come with me and they loved going to the top of that, down on some kind of movable truck or something like that. The building was designed for young children.

00:45:54.160 - 00:46:10.880

OK. And now on another topic, I wanted to just say that I don't think you retired when you retired because when the Towson University Retired Faculty Association was formed you were one of the first people, you were...

00:46:10.880 - 00:46:18.480

You were the president for a year and you did so much with that. And you're still a member. Yes, I am.

00:46:18.480 - 00:46:35.880

I was one of the initial people to start that organization. And I smile monthly because when I started as president, every month I would send a newsletter to everyone and that still has gone on and on.

00:46:35.880 - 00:46:45.600

And I kind of smile and say that was one of my contributions to that. I joined you and being a founder of the organization and I'm kind of, I'm very loyal to it too.

00:46:45.800 - 00:46:53.480

And what do you remember about the creation of that organization? How did that happen? I don't know.

00:46:53.480 - 00:47:11.920

I was invited to a meeting one time because they thought about we needed to get faculty to stay together, you know, and even more than an informal way, in something, a formal way. And how can we give opportunities for faculty too?

00:47:12.480 - 00:47:26.920

And I just remember just sitting in a group and somebody came up with an idea to have an organization just for faculty. And now I know it's been expanded for other areas on campus, which I think is wonderful.

00:47:28.000 - 00:47:54.600

You know, as I said, working as a faculty member here was an opportunity to have long-time friends and people in early childhood education. Eileen Cohen, Pat Waters, Barbara Pour, you know, some of them have passed away, but I still keep in touch with the people in early childhood education.

00:47:55.080 - 00:48:09.410

And we have formed a long past of togetherness with us. Well, thank you, Fran, for the wonderful time that we spent to you. This was really a terrific interview and I appreciate it and much happiness to

00:48:09.410 - 00:48:12.600

you in whatever lies ahead. Well, thank you very much.