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Sisson, Elizabeth: There we go. Gerhardt, Christine: Okay. Sisson, Elizabeth: All right. So, a summary of my research so far. The Unearthing Towson's History Project, this summer, is seeking to Sisson, Elizabeth: uncover the stories of women leaders on campus, and when I first started my research, I came across mentions of the Women's Center, but I kind of found

00:00:26.780 - 00:01:12.460

Sisson, Elizabeth: pieces of information all scattered, and I couldn't really put together a cohesive picture of Sisson, Elizabeth: how it functioned, what it looked like. So that was my main goal over the course of the summer, and I found many materials in our archives, but I kind of lacked an experiential piece to my research, and that is the goal of these oral histories. Sisson, Elizabeth: And I'd love to just get the perspectives of people who were actually there and involved with the Women's Center. Sisson, Elizabeth: So what I've found so far is that the Women's Center was an outgrowth of the Women's Liberation Movement, and in 1971, faculty and students came together to meet with

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Sisson, Elizabeth: President Fisher to establish the need for women's studies courses, a child care center, and the Women's Center. Sisson, Elizabeth: After that meeting, the Women's Center was established in a temporary building behind Stevens Hall in 1972. Sisson, Elizabeth: And by 1973, the Center was holding discussion series on issues pertaining to women and skills workshops about things like automobile repair, home repair, self-defense. Sisson, Elizabeth: By 1974, On Our Minds debuted, which was a newsletter that was in conjunction with the Women's Studies program.

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Sisson, Elizabeth: It allowed students to publish their thoughts on women's issues, and it spoke to the happenings in the Women's Studies program and the happenings in the Women's Center, and it ran until 1995. Sisson, Elizabeth: The Women's Center's activities were programmed by the Women's Center Board, who met monthly to discuss administrative and planning matters, and by 1975, the Women's Center relocated to the second floor of the Health Center. Sisson, Elizabeth: By 1980, Leah Schofield was appointed the first director of the Women's Center, and she held the position for many years. Sisson, Elizabeth: In 1993, the Women's Center was put under the direction

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Sisson, Elizabeth: of Division of Student Services, and shortly after that, budget cuts ensued, and some positions were cut. Sisson, Elizabeth: The Sisson, Elizabeth: director stated that a lot of the past duties of the Women's Center had become taken up by other organizations on campus, and this also coincides with the same time that the second wave of the women's movement was ending, and the third wave was starting. Sisson, Elizabeth: And then in around the early 2000s, the Women's Center became incorporated into the Center for Student Diversity.

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Sisson, Elizabeth: And in around 2010, it was reimagined Sisson, Elizabeth: into the women's resources program. So, currently, there's not a physical space like there was at the Women's Center. It's more of a program that just hosts events that are catered to women and providing them with adequate resources. Sisson, Elizabeth: To further my research, I'm, like I said, I'm gathering oral histories for members of the Women's Center to really document what it was like in those walls, whether it be in a temporary building by Stevens, in the library, or in the health center. Sisson, Elizabeth: Because the Women's Center was a very huge part of many women's experiences at Towson, and has influenced them to become and inspire leaders today.

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Sisson, Elizabeth: So that is my spiel of research Gerhardt, Christine: Okay. Sisson, Elizabeth: that I've conducted so far. Gerhardt, Christine: A lot more than I knew about it.

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Sisson, Elizabeth: So, if you have any, questions, or if there's anything I say that might not be 100% accurate with what you remember, you can also let me know, and we can talk about that from there. Sisson, Elizabeth: Alright, so could you tell me about who you are and where you're from? Gerhardt, Christine: So, Christine Gerhardt, and I'm from Baltimore, lived in Baltimore County, I now live in Harford County. Who I am… Gerhardt, Christine: It took me many years to graduate from Towson because I was a part-time student. The first semester I was there, the first year, I was full-time, but because of finances and so forth, I went part-time.

00:04:51.490 - 00:05:17.130

Gerhardt, Christine: So I didn't graduate 'til… Gerhardt, Christine: I tell people I was on the 7-year plan, or… Gerhardt, Christine: Took me a long time to graduate, but Gerhardt, Christine: I worked at Towson State, in one of the offices, during my part-time attendance, so that was very convenient, because, you know, at the college, it was like, you know, I got out of class, okay, and you walked out of your office and went to class, you know.

00:05:17.130 - 00:05:32.450

Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: So it wasn't like, Gerhardt, Christine: the kind of, you know, real jobs that you have out in the world, you know. And my career, I'm retired. I retired about 4 years ago. Gerhardt, Christine: I worked in government

00:05:32.940 - 00:06:08.920

Gerhardt, Christine: my entire career. After I left Towson State, I went to work for Baltimore County Social Services. Gerhardt, Christine: Then I worked for the state of Maryland Health and Mental Hygiene, and then I moved on to the federal government, which is where I retired from. My whole career has been in the, Gerhardt, Christine: you know, public service programs, Medicaid, Medicare, food stamps, public assistance, and so on. And what else? As I said, I live in Harford County, I'm married, have a couple grandchildren, that's it. Sisson, Elizabeth: Wonderful.

00:06:09.110 - 00:06:32.440

Sisson, Elizabeth: So, what led you to attend Towson State? Gerhardt, Christine: Convenience. I lived in Parkville, Maryland, and, you know, Gerhardt, Christine: 8 miles from the school or something, you know. It was, you know, I went to a high school in Towson. Gerhardt, Christine: And, you know, Towson State was, you know,

00:06:32.660 - 00:07:03.980

Gerhardt, Christine: it was the cheapest. I don't know if it is anymore. It's not cheap anymore, because my great-niece just enrolled there. It ain't cheap. But it was fairly cheap back then, but even with it being fairly cheap, I couldn't afford it, but anyhow, Gerhardt, Christine: so that led me to Towson. I had great aunts Gerhardt, Christine: who were, as I believe, among one of the very early graduating classes, or maybe the first, Gerhardt, Christine: of when it became Towson State

00:07:04.310 - 00:07:27.760

Gerhardt, Christine: College, because you know it used to be, I don't know if you knew this, but it used to be called the State Normal School. Sisson, Elizabeth: Yes. Gerhardt, Christine: So somewhere, I think in, like, the 30s, it became a state college, or a state teacher's college, you know. And my great aunts, my three great aunts attended and were among the first women to graduate, you know, so… Sisson, Elizabeth: That's amazing.

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Gerhardt, Christine: So anyway, we had a little bit of history with Towson, but it was mainly the convenience and the, you know, the finances that led me to Towson. Sisson, Elizabeth: Wonderful. Sisson, Elizabeth: How would you describe Towson State Sisson, Elizabeth: during your time there?

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Gerhardt, Christine: There were two separate experiences there. Gerhardt, Christine: As a full-time student, I didn't like it at all. Gerhardt, Christine: And please don't take offense at anything I'm about to say. Sisson, Elizabeth: None at all.

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Gerhardt, Christine: When… Gerhardt, Christine: You know, I was fortunate enough to work my way through a private high school. I went to Towson Catholic High School. Gerhardt, Christine: And that was a good education, and it was a better education than I thought it was when I was there. Gerhardt, Christine: Because when I came to Towson as a freshman,

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Gerhardt, Christine: there was nothing new that they were teaching me. My whole first year was a complete snooze. Gerhardt, Christine: Because it was, like, Psychology 101, really? You're gonna tell us about Freud and id and ego, you're gonna tell us about, you know, operant conditioning? Honestly? I gotta listen to this again, you know? And it was the same thing with most of my courses that first year, Gerhardt, Christine: were very… For me, because I'd had them in high school, you know? Gerhardt, Christine: And I'd probably had them in junior year of high school. So the first year, for me, it was not worth the financial struggle.

00:09:00.220 - 00:09:27.150

Gerhardt, Christine: And the kids, and again, don't take offense at this, okay? Gerhardt, Christine: But the kids were very immature, you know? So I was in class with, you know, Gerhardt, Christine: teenagers, and I didn't feel like one of them, you know? Gerhardt, Christine: When I went part-time and went to night school, it was a completely different school. Completely different.

00:09:27.260 - 00:09:49.480

Gerhardt, Christine: At night school, everyone there wanted to be there. Gerhardt, Christine: Nobody comes home from a full-time job, hurries up and puts dinner on the table, runs out the door, because obviously no online classes, you know, it wasn't like... Sisson, Elizabeth: Yes. Gerhardt, Christine: Runs out the door, drives to Towson, finds a parking place, goes to class, if you don't want to be there. So at night school,

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Gerhardt, Christine: everyone wanted to be there. They were paying out of their own pocket, they were struggling, you know, to balance their jobs and their homes and their school. They wanted to be there, and they brought experience to the table. Gerhardt, Christine: These were people who were in the work world, so people who already had jobs and could comment in class about, okay, this is what happens in government, this is what happens in private industry, and so on and so forth. So, night school was a totally different experience for me, and I liked it, you know. Sisson, Elizabeth: That's interesting. Gerhardt, Christine: Day school was a bust.

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Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Oh, that's… I've never thought about, you know, the different, I guess, like, demographics of students, like, from Sisson, Elizabeth: you know, day school and night school, and… But that's pretty interesting, because I know Towson has always been a school that has had more, like, non-traditional or, like, older students. Sisson, Elizabeth: That's something I never even thought about, that's awesome. Gerhardt, Christine: It made a dramatic difference in what you learned in class, you know.

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Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: I mean, in day school, the teacher would say, write an essay, and people go, what do you mean, an essay? What's an essay? It's like… Sisson, Elizabeth: No, yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: Anyway.

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Sisson, Elizabeth: So, how were you introduced to the Women's Center? Gerhardt, Christine: I don't even know. You know, it was up there behind Stevens. Gerhardt, Christine: It was a trailer. They call it a temporary building, it was a trailer, you know, and I was in art classes, which were in Van Bokkelen Hall. I don't know if Van Bokkelen is still there or not. Sisson, Elizabeth: I think so.

00:11:26.380 - 00:11:55.910

Gerhardt, Christine: But that was the art center before they built the new, you know... New. Now it's like, you know, 40 years old, 50 years old, but anyway. Art used to be in Van Bokkelen Hall, which is right behind Stevens. And so, you know, I just found the Women's Center, I guess, just wandering around campus. I'm sure I didn't look for it, and I'm sure Gerhardt, Christine: you know, I didn't respond to anything formal, it's like, there's this building, like, what's in there? You know? Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: I think I just stumbled on it.

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Sisson, Elizabeth: Wonderful. Sisson, Elizabeth: Did the Women's Liberation Movement influence you or the Women's Center's workings? If so, could you elaborate on how? Gerhardt, Christine: Women's Center was all about women's liberation. I mean, Gloria Steinem was our hero, you know? And, of course, there were women's studies classes at Towson, you know, Gerhardt, Christine: where we studied, you know, the women's authors and, you know, Maya Angelou and Sylvia Plath and so on and so forth. Did it influence me? It did.

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Gerhardt, Christine: At the Women's Center, in those days, and this will be hard for you to believe, okay, but Gerhardt, Christine: we, in the world, you really did not speak of sexuality, you know? Sisson, Elizabeth: Hmm. Gerhardt, Christine: at the Women's Center, you know, people would walk through the door and they'd go, I'm not lying,

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Gerhardt, Christine: where exactly is my vagina? Gerhardt, Christine: Truthfully, you laugh, but truthfully, these were women who were 19, 20, 21, walking in, wanting to know where their body parts were, you know? And I remember Gerhardt, Christine: us sitting around in circles, drawing pictures, and, you know, labeling what we could label, and arguing about what comes out of where, and, you know, all this kind of stuff. So that was important. Gerhardt, Christine: Because

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Gerhardt, Christine: it allowed us to speak frankly about something that was important for everybody to know, and it enabled me, you know, as I was raising a daughter, to realize you can't skip this stuff, you know? Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: You can't skip it, you have to directly address Gerhardt, Christine: these matters, you know? And in those days, we did indeed, on Towson's campus, there were transgender people,

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Gerhardt, Christine: and, you know, Gerhardt, Christine: I guess gay, yeah, there were lesbian people, you know, gay people, you know, that wasn't a big deal. But anyway, so that was one thing, that area of being free to speak of sexuality, that was important, because Gerhardt, Christine: remember, birth control pills only became available somewhere, like, in the 60s or something, and for us, they only became readily available then, you know, through, like, Gerhardt, Christine: I think the health center might have had a program in Planned Parenthood and whatnot, but anyhow, that was important to enable us to talk about this

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Gerhardt, Christine: whole chunk of your life Gerhardt, Christine: women weren't allowed to talk about before, you know? So that was one thing. And then, Gerhardt, Christine: I think as far as women's liberation... Gerhardt, Christine: So I grew up in a household with four boys, okay?

00:14:49.120 - 00:15:12.730

Gerhardt, Christine: So there was no shrinking violent stuff in my house, you know? Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: And so I grew up, you know, Gerhardt, Christine: my dad showed me how to do home repairs, you know, I knew how to change, you know, light switches, and I knew how to fix a trap on the sink, and blah blah blah blah blah, you know.

00:15:12.840 - 00:15:39.660

Gerhardt, Christine: But I think that at the Women's Center, it helped us to also see ourselves as leaders, Gerhardt, Christine: you know, Gerhardt, Christine: not in any big formal way, you know, I don't remember any, you know... Gerhardt, Christine: And you talked about discussions and stuff. Truthfully, I don't remember any roundtable discussion. We talked all the time, but it was more like a drop-in type thing, you know?

00:15:39.820 - 00:15:57.080

Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: Cross between classes and throw down their books and, you know, start talking, you know. Gerhardt, Christine: But I do think it was important for us to be able to Gerhardt, Christine: see ourselves in a different light. You know, my mom always thought

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Gerhardt, Christine: that she always… And this is weird… She always wanted me… Alright, she wanted my brother to be a senator, right? And so forth. She wanted me to be a secretary. Gerhardt, Christine: As you wanted me to be either a legal secretary or a medical secretary, because they were the ones that made lots of money, right? Gerhardt, Christine: And, you know, like, the last thing I wanted in the world Gerhardt, Christine: was to be somebody's secretary. I didn't want to… I didn't like typing, I didn't want to type.

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Gerhardt, Christine: In that day and age, people actually took shorthand, because we had no computers, you know. I didn't want to learn shorthand. I was sick of it, you know. But that was my mom's vision for me, as a success, Gerhardt, Christine: was to be a great secretary, you know? And I was like, even before I went to Towson, I was like, Gerhardt, Christine: I ain't gonna be a secretary. I'm gonna have a secretary. Sisson, Elizabeth: There you go.

00:16:53.920 - 00:17:05.930

Gerhardt, Christine: I had many secretaries, you know. Sisson, Elizabeth: Wonderful. Gerhardt, Christine: But the Women's Center did allow us that platform, and did allow us, you know, that Gerhardt, Christine: way to see ourselves differently, you know.

00:17:05.930 - 00:17:39.750

Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Sisson, Elizabeth: I was reading one of the newsletters, and a student was talking about how the Women's Center kind of gave them this place to Sisson, Elizabeth: talk and, like, release all this energy and, like, discussion from things that their professors had, you know, they just learned all this information in class, they've just talked about this, and now they have somewhere to go where they can release all this information and talk about it with their peers and discuss. Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: Yeah. As I said, it wasn't…

00:17:39.950 - 00:18:14.100

Gerhardt, Christine: It wasn't formal at all. I mean, it was, like I say, drop in between classes, and whoever was there was there, and whoever wasn't was… Gerhardt, Christine: Start talking about whatever. Sisson, Elizabeth: So, I know you said that the Women's Center kind of gave you a platform to, you know, develop your leadership or become leaders. So, how would you say that the Women's Center influenced or impacted you throughout your life? Gerhardt, Christine: I can't say that the Women's Center by itself

00:18:15.250 - 00:18:37.210

Gerhardt, Christine: was a dramatic influence on my life. You know, I mean, there were other positive Gerhardt, Christine: female figures in my life. Gerhardt, Christine: You know, I had a high school teacher that Gerhardt, Christine: I kept in touch with 'til the day she died, which was only, like, you know, 10 years ago, but, you know,

00:18:37.580 - 00:19:10.430

Gerhardt, Christine: there were… But the Women's Center, I can't say, I can't know what to attribute Gerhardt, Christine: to the Women's Center. It was important to me, you know, it was important. Gerhardt, Christine: But it was part of the totality of what was happening in society at that time, I guess I'd put it that way. You know, my high school education, you know. Gerhardt, Christine: And seeing women, I guess, in leadership roles, and seeing women in the news was important, you know?

00:19:10.430 - 00:19:19.110

Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: I don't know Gerhardt, Christine: exactly how my life might have been different without the Women's Center, it's hard to say, you know. Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah.

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Sisson, Elizabeth: Do you recall any, friendships, or what types of conversations that you guys would have there? Gerhardt, Christine: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: Yeah, well, like I said, we had plenty of conversations about sex, you know, and we had conversations about sexism, and racism, and so on and so forth, all the isms. We had a lot of fun. Gerhardt, Christine: It was a fun place to be. I mean, you know, like, you would go to any party and sit down and start talking to people. We did. We didn't go there. No one came to the Women's Center, like,

00:19:56.720 - 00:20:17.680

Gerhardt, Christine: I'm gonna go in here and get liberated, or I'm gonna go liberate these people. No. Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: You know, we came in and started sitting around, talking, drinking Cokes, eating lunch, you know. Gerhardt, Christine: And so, yeah, and friendships… Now, 50 years later, I don't think

00:20:18.400 - 00:20:32.300

Gerhardt, Christine: I have any of those friendships remaining in my life. You know, everyone's gone different ways and so forth. Gerhardt, Christine: But, you know, they were important. Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: And,

00:20:32.330 - 00:20:56.680

Gerhardt, Christine: yeah, they allowed us the freedom to say what we wanted, and ask what we wanted, and talk about what we wanted, and laugh about what we wanted. And you did mention a couple things that were important. Gerhardt, Christine: Like the car maintenance class, that was important. You know, I drove a big ol' clunker, and it broke down all the time. Gerhardt, Christine: And I could actually lift the hood and fix it, you know. Sisson, Elizabeth: Oh, wonderful.

00:20:56.680 - 00:21:25.780

Gerhardt, Christine: I knew how to change oil, and my friends knew how to change oil, you know. And, you know, now there's a Jiffy Lube on every corner, so maybe it's not as important, but first of all, we were broke. Gerhardt, Christine: So paying, you know, mechanics was, like, sort of out of the picture. And we were not… Gerhardt, Christine: We were not people whose mom and dad bought us a car Gerhardt, Christine: and made sure that car was maintained. We were people who went out and scrunched up money and

00:21:26.470 - 00:21:45.950

Gerhardt, Christine: got an ancient car that broke down every 10 minutes, so… Sisson, Elizabeth: Get you to point A to point B sometimes. Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: That's exactly it. You know, got us from our house to our school. And also, like, the self-defense, I will say, you know, women Gerhardt, Christine: what I learned in the self-defense course.

00:21:46.600 - 00:22:04.900

Gerhardt, Christine: We don't like to hit each other. Gerhardt, Christine: When it came to where we had to punch another woman in the stomach, Gerhardt, Christine: we couldn't do it. The teacher was like, okay, just give her a whack! Gerhardt, Christine: See, I saw the look on your face, like…

00:22:05.170 - 00:22:15.750

Gerhardt, Christine: whack somebody in the stomach, you know? And we were like. Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: And she's like, no, you gotta put your… you gotta make that person go, oof, you know? Sisson, Elizabeth: Oh my gosh!

00:22:15.750 - 00:22:54.540

Gerhardt, Christine: the room had literally rubber walls, so she said, alright, everybody turn around and face the wall and punch the wall as hard as you can, you know? And she did teach us techniques of self-defense, and she taught us... Gerhardt, Christine: You know, as women, we're not used to that physicality. Gerhardt, Christine: Guys will mix it up. You know, a guy at a party, you know, you've probably been to places where guys mix it up, they punch each other out, they fall to the floor wrestling. Women don't do that, you know? Gerhardt, Christine: We didn't do it then, we really don't do it now, you know. And it was important

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Gerhardt, Christine: to learn that experience. And I will say that at one point later in life. Gerhardt, Christine: Someone tried to rob me, and I beat the crap out of them, and put them through a plate glass window. Sisson, Elizabeth: Wow! Gerhardt, Christine: Which, I don't know. Now, I'm not saying it was the brightest thing to do, alright? I'm not saying, you know, in retrospect.

00:23:16.490 - 00:23:35.250

Gerhardt, Christine: Had the person had a weapon, I'd have been up the creek, you know. Gerhardt, Christine: But he didn't. Gerhardt, Christine: You know what I mean? And, you know, I got my money back. Gerhardt, Christine: There you go. I pinned the guy, made him give my wallet back, you know, and so anyway, but I don't think

00:23:36.240 - 00:24:05.680

Gerhardt, Christine: I would have responded that way Gerhardt, Christine: if I hadn't had that experience Gerhardt, Christine: of learning to be physical. You know, learning to grab someone, learning to be close to their body, because that's when you're wrestling. You don't go like this, you know, because then they can Gerhardt, Christine: hit you into all sorts of… You grab them close to your body, you stay close, and I don't think, I probably wouldn't have done that had I not had that little bit of

00:24:06.230 - 00:24:27.260

Gerhardt, Christine: exposure to self… Gerhardt, Christine: You know. Sisson, Elizabeth: I'm really glad that some, like, the information that they were teaching really came useful, because, you know, I've just been reading so much about it, like, they offered, you know, self-defense, they offered the, you know, auto repair, but it's really interesting, like, I'm glad that it was actually able to, you know, be used Gerhardt, Christine: Yeah, we did.

00:24:27.260 - 00:24:42.910

Sisson, Elizabeth: by people. Gerhardt, Christine: We used it. Yep, we used it. Yep. Gerhardt, Christine: And my friends, I had friends that changed their own oil and so forth, so yeah, we used it. Sisson, Elizabeth: Who… Do you recall, like, who the instructors were? Maybe not by name, but, like, how they were found, or…

00:24:42.910 - 00:24:59.130

Gerhardt, Christine: Not even. Sisson, Elizabeth: to campus, yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: Not even, no. Now, I think the instructor was one of the phys-ed instructors, and one of the... Gerhardt, Christine: The maintenance person, the core maintenance person was from the campus police, you know, so…

00:24:59.910 - 00:25:30.460

Sisson, Elizabeth: Wonderful. Sisson, Elizabeth: So if I were to walk into the Women's Center when it was in the temporary building, what would I see, and what conversations could I hear? More probably what I could see, because we have talked about the conversations. Gerhardt, Christine: So, it was plastered with, posters, you know, Gerhardt, Christine: that… One of the posters, actually, I kept one of the… It's probably still in my garage.

00:25:30.880 - 00:25:49.840

Gerhardt, Christine: When they closed down that temporary building, I took one of the posters, and it was so funny that… I loved the poster. Gerhardt, Christine: It was called Old Mistresses: Gerhardt, Christine: women artists of the past, and the Walters Art Gallery had had this exhibit called Old Mistresses. Gerhardt, Christine: What I really liked about it

00:25:50.360 - 00:26:10.030

Gerhardt, Christine: was that… The difference between male and female, okay? So when you talk about the old masters. Gerhardt, Christine: You think of Rembrandt, right? Gerhardt, Christine: And it's Gerhardt, Christine: an honor to be called one of the old masters. You know, that's something to be admired and, you know, held up.

00:26:10.340 - 00:26:30.360

Gerhardt, Christine: When you talk about old mistress, that's a different thing, isn't it? You know? Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: When you talk about a mistress, she is not, you know, the one that you hold up as a model, right? You know, Rembrandt, yes, is a model. Artist. A mistress is, like... Gerhardt, Christine: She's his mistress, really? And we still think that way.

00:26:30.500 - 00:27:15.400

Gerhardt, Christine: None of us are still happy to hear that someone is someone else's mistress. We're always, like, a little sleazy, you know? Gerhardt, Christine: So anyway, the title of the exhibit, I just thought was such a good Gerhardt, Christine: paradox or irony or whatever, to call it old mistresses, you know, and had profiles of three women artists. But anyway, that poster was great. So if you walked in, you saw lots of posters. Gerhardt, Christine: You know, music posters, and art posters, and Peter Max posters, and just all sorts of stuff like that. We had pillows on the floor, you know, big,

00:27:15.800 - 00:27:27.190

Gerhardt, Christine: you know, hippie-type stuff, you know. Gerhardt, Christine: Pillows sitting on the floor, and Gerhardt, Christine: we had an old sofa Gerhardt, Christine: stuck in there, you know?

00:27:27.310 - 00:28:10.870

Gerhardt, Christine: So it was very catch-as-catch-can, and just, you know, I mean, you know, frankly, Gerhardt, Christine: imagine a teenager's room times three, you know. So, art posters and music posters and Gerhardt, Christine: it was dingy, because it was a trailer. So, it's not like there was light streaming in or anything like that, and it was cold, and it was wet, because it was a trailer, and those trailers were literally... Gerhardt, Christine: I had other classes, and they were literally rusting apart as we were using them. You know, I had other classes in the trailers, and I remember going into one, and it had rained during the night, and the whole roof had collapsed in, you know, so there was, like...

00:28:10.870 - 00:28:22.090

Sisson, Elizabeth: Wow. Gerhardt, Christine: You know? And so it was… Gerhardt, Christine: Not only was it a trailer, but it was a deteriorating trailer. Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah.

00:28:22.090 - 00:28:39.630

Gerhardt, Christine: So what you would have seen was that, you know, you would have seen a room with a bunch of stuff on the floor, food every... You know, we ate, you know, ate our lunches there and stuff. It was not Gerhardt, Christine: some clean, tidy little classroom-looking Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: place. It was just

00:28:39.940 - 00:29:05.260

Gerhardt, Christine: a place for young people to gather, for young women to gather, you know, and that's what we did. And what you would have seen and heard was… You would have seen and heard us laughing, people were smoking pot. Gerhardt, Christine: That was campus at that time. Gerhardt, Christine: And so, you know, that's what you would have seen, a bunch of young women, and occasionally a young man. We didn't throw them out, you know. Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah.

00:29:05.260 - 00:29:25.940

Gerhardt, Christine: They didn't especially want to come, but once in a while, somebody wandered in, so it was cool, you know. Sisson, Elizabeth: Nice. Gerhardt, Christine: So… Sisson, Elizabeth: Do you feel that your experience with the Women's Center while you were a full-time student and a part-time student were different, or is that just not something you've thought about in great detail?

00:29:26.800 - 00:29:38.090

Gerhardt, Christine: I think the experience of the Women's Center was the same Gerhardt, Christine: in either case. Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: I'm sure I did not go there as often

00:29:38.830 - 00:30:07.240

Gerhardt, Christine: in my… Like I said, I was at Towson for a long time, you know, and once I was working full-time and going to school part-time at night, Gerhardt, Christine: you know, I didn't have as much time to dawdle around in the Women's Center, so… Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Do you have a favorite memory of your time at the Women's Center? Gerhardt, Christine: You know, one thing, and this is just… This is not meaningful.

00:30:08.690 - 00:30:24.410

Gerhardt, Christine: In those days, something that was popular was streaking. Gerhardt, Christine: I don't know if you are aware of that. Sisson, Elizabeth: Yes, I saw a lot of, some articles on it in the Towerlight about it when I was researching the time period. Gerhardt, Christine: Yeah. And

00:30:24.890 - 00:31:00.810

Gerhardt, Christine: the location of where the Women's Center was was frequently one of the streaking venues, and so I gotta say, that one's funny as heck. You know, you could… It was just funny. Gerhardt, Christine: It was not evil, there was nothing, but it was just a funny thing, you know? We… Gerhardt, Christine: I remember one time, we're in the Women's Center, and they're like, oh, there's gonna be a streaking at... Gerhardt, Christine: So there were… The student housing, I think there were only four buildings at that time on campus, and we called them the Quad, as I recall.

00:31:01.010 - 00:31:34.220

Gerhardt, Christine: And they say, oh, there's gonna be streaking over at the quad, you know, and so everybody in the Women's Center hurries up, you know, runs over to the quad. Gerhardt, Christine: And it was the funniest event I had ever seen in my life. They… Gerhardt, Christine: First of all, women were running from one… They'd run from one dorm to the other. Gerhardt, Christine: You know, and so you see one door open, and one streaks across, and you know, and then somebody else streaks across, but then this truck came, this pickup truck with panels on the side.

00:31:35.750 - 00:32:04.510

Gerhardt, Christine: And it was lined with guys. Gerhardt, Christine: And all these guys are hanging off the side of the truck, with their behinds out, you know, they were naked. Gerhardt, Christine: A whole truckload full of naked guys comes driving around, you know, it was just hysterical. We were just… We just laughed so hard, couldn't stand it. Of course, eventually the campus police came and broke it up, but you know. Gerhardt, Christine: They were laughing too, you know?

00:32:04.510 - 00:32:41.020

Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: Hysterical. It was just hysterical. My next-door neighbor Gerhardt, Christine: at… This is not the Women's Center, this is streaking story. My next-door neighbor went to Towson, and he just… You know, in Stevens Hall, that was where they had all the plays and assemblies and big meetings, and all that kind of stuff. Gerhardt, Christine: So, there was some kind of event at Stevens Hall, and the guy that used to live next door to me decides he's gonna streak across the stage, because that's what people would do, is at some unexpected moment, you have a speaker up here at the podium, and somebody runs behind him naked, you know.

00:32:41.170 - 00:33:08.510

Gerhardt, Christine: And so, my next-door neighbor He decides he's gonna streak across the stage, but he trips! Gerhardt, Christine: Got halfway across the stage and tripped and fell, and it was just so funny to see this naked guy scrambling around trying to… And then to realize it was my next-door neighbor was even more funny, but anyway, that has nothing to do with the Women's Center, that has to do with Gerhardt, Christine: how funny streaking was. Sisson, Elizabeth: No worries. Oh, that's hilarious.

00:33:09.110 - 00:33:40.810

Gerhardt, Christine: It was. So that's one of the most amusing stories about the Women's Center was it was located… It was a good streaking location. Sisson, Elizabeth: So, if you were to do it all over again, go back to Towson State and, you know, relive this period of your life. Sisson, Elizabeth: What would you prioritize, or what would you do different, if anything? Gerhardt, Christine: I don't think I'd do anything differently, you know? I mean…

00:33:41.000 - 00:34:12.330

Gerhardt, Christine: You know, as I said, my first year at Towson, academically, was a bore Gerhardt, Christine: and a waste of my money. Gerhardt, Christine: But I couldn't have known that ahead of time. Gerhardt, Christine: And it's not true for everybody. You know, it was true for me, but it's not true for everybody. For other people, you know, it's what they need at that time, so that's fine. So, you know, I couldn't have seen that, I couldn't have foreseen that, no one foresaw that, and

00:34:13.300 - 00:34:37.980

Gerhardt, Christine: I had a lot of good Gerhardt, Christine: relationships with people at Towson. I had some excellent professors, Gerhardt, Christine: you know, where I could walk into their office and sit down and chit-chat about life, you know, and they took the time to do it, Gerhardt, Christine: you know? They got me out of scrapes, you know.

00:34:38.380 - 00:35:01.380

Gerhardt, Christine: And when I say scrapes, I mean the bureaucratic scrapes, you know, Gerhardt, Christine: that, oh, this paper wasn't filed, or this piece of whatever, or, you know, they lost your such and such, da-da-da, you know, all kinds of stuff. But, you know, they were faculty members Gerhardt, Christine: that I could go to and say, you know, hey, you know, they said Gerhardt, Christine: I can't take this class.

00:35:01.690 - 00:35:27.360

Gerhardt, Christine: I had a problem that I wasn't what they call a matriculating student, you know, and I really wasn't there at Towson Gerhardt, Christine: to get a degree. Gerhardt, Christine: I was there just to learn, you know, and so I just took the classes that interested me. Gerhardt, Christine: I never… I was not counting credits and so on and so forth, but

00:35:27.710 - 00:35:48.550

Gerhardt, Christine: one day, I get a letter in the mail from Towson that says, Gerhardt, Christine: you're now in your Gerhardt, Christine: senior year, and you haven't declared a major. Gerhardt, Christine: I am? I'm in my senior year, and I haven't… No, I hadn't declared a major.

00:35:48.890 - 00:36:24.610

Gerhardt, Christine: So I had to go through some paperwork. Gerhardt, Christine: I really just looked at how many classes I had in different areas, and one that… I had the most sociology classes. So, okay, sociology is my major, you know what I mean? I had to take… I think I had to take some phys-ed classes, that was torture for me, Gerhardt, Christine: to fulfill requirements, I've had to take tennis and swimming. I still can't swim to this day. Gerhardt, Christine: But, you know, the teachers were good, you know, and the staff was pretty good. So, you know,

00:36:25.020 - 00:36:43.510

Gerhardt, Christine: I can't think of anything I would have really done differently. When I Gerhardt, Christine: was looking, you know, when I was in high school, I had a brother who was very, Gerhardt, Christine: quite, very smart guy. Gerhardt, Christine: and very, you know, like a high achiever type person. And he wanted me to go to a more

00:36:43.690 - 00:37:11.520

Gerhardt, Christine: prestigious school. He wanted me to go to Goucher, or to Smith, or to Brown, or, you know… Gerhardt, Christine: But I, you know, knew that I didn't want to do that, because I knew, Gerhardt, Christine: you know, I was not in the same socioeconomic bracket as those folks, and I didn't want to try to be. Gerhardt, Christine: You know, so Towson's a pretty egalitarian school, you know.

00:37:11.520 - 00:37:33.280

Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: So, yeah, I think what I did at Towson was fine. I'm glad that I went to the night school, because I know I wouldn't have continued in the day school. Gerhardt, Christine: You know, so I'm glad I went to night school, I'm glad that I worked there full-time, because Gerhardt, Christine: I developed relationships with staff, and developed more relationships with faculty.

00:37:33.480 - 00:37:56.010

Gerhardt, Christine: So, you know, yeah. Sisson, Elizabeth: That's wonderful. Sisson, Elizabeth: Do you have any recommendations of avenues, in my research that I could explore that I haven't talked about or have left untouched? Gerhardt, Christine: No, not really. I mean,

00:37:56.170 - 00:38:26.640

Gerhardt, Christine: I'm sure that everybody's experience there is very different, you know? Gerhardt, Christine: Yeah, everybody's experience is different. You know, for some people, coming from high school to college is a big challenge, you know, and it's a struggle, and they have to really put their nose to the grindstone to get through it. Gerhardt, Christine: And, you know, it wasn't the case for me, but it's the case for somebody else. And for other people, these courses may have been really eye-opening, you know? Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah.

00:38:26.640 - 00:38:42.610

Gerhardt, Christine: For me, the most enriched part was night school, Gerhardt, Christine: when I listened to people who had jobs, and who said, well, you know, at my job, they do XYZ, you know? Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: Or I had this situation at work where blah blah blah.

00:38:43.280 - 00:39:06.260

Gerhardt, Christine: Because that's real life. Gerhardt, Christine: You know, I think that now, you know, there's more educational opportunities. Gerhardt, Christine: My actual great-niece is going to start at Towson in the fall, you know, and Gerhardt, Christine: it's so very different, you know, with different kinds of learning opportunities. There it was the classroom, that was it.

00:39:06.880 - 00:39:31.960

Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: It was a classroom, you know, so anything like the Women's Center was extra, you know, and you had to seek it out, you know? Like I said, I'm sure I didn't seek it out, I'm sure I stumbled on it, you know? But… Gerhardt, Christine: Yeah, I forgot your question. Sisson, Elizabeth: No worries, it's just, if there's anything you think that I should explore going forward.

00:39:36.270 - 00:40:05.520

Gerhardt, Christine: No, I don't think so. I mean, I feel like, as I said, Gerhardt, Christine: the way professors related to the students was good, you know? You Gerhardt, Christine: could meet with your… I don't know if it's still that way. You could meet with your professor, go to their office, they had office hours. Gerhardt, Christine: You know, even if it wasn't office hours, if they were there, you still went, you went in, you sat down, you know, they were honest, they didn't lie, you know.

00:40:05.520 - 00:40:12.580

Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: If your work was not up to par, it's like, what is this? This isn't you. You know? Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: And

00:40:12.850 - 00:40:55.360

Gerhardt, Christine: so I felt like they were good professors, and I don't know if that's still the same atmosphere, because now you have classes like this, and I don't know if you can develop a relationship. Sisson, Elizabeth: When we have online classes, like, a lot of them are, like, options, and for me, I don't choose to take an online class, like, Sisson, Elizabeth: that's just not my preference, but a lot of the professors that I've had, one of my favorite things to do, like, if I'm really enjoying a class, or maybe having a little more trouble, is I am an office hours Sisson, Elizabeth: attendee, and I feel like that really does… I can develop a real relationship with my professors, and, you know, I'm able to talk about, like,

00:40:55.800 - 00:41:37.210

Sisson, Elizabeth: the class material, but also, like, more, and how that is applicable to my life, or some other situation I just heard about on the news, or whatnot, and it really… Sisson, Elizabeth: I feel like I have a lot more to learn from the professors, like, socially as well, on top of just the classroom. Gerhardt, Christine: Yeah, yeah, and that was important, and I'm not sure they, you know, that happens with online classes. And the size of Towson is massive now. I mean, as compared to what it was when I was there, it was all that, you know, the whole school Gerhardt, Christine: was that central campus. The Fine Arts Building was far away

00:41:37.210 - 00:42:08.500

Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: When they built it. So far away! How are we gonna get there? You know, and we had… And then the admin building, you know, I don't even know if it's still the admin building, but off Osler Drive, you know, that was so far away, you know, and, Gerhardt, Christine: you know, so I don't know what class sizes are like now. Gerhardt, Christine: I just have no idea what the college experience is now. I don't know, you know, your housing is all over the place in Towson, you know.

00:42:08.500 - 00:42:24.960

Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: When I went there, it was either in those, like, maybe four dormitories, and then there was some across, like, Burke Avenue had a few, you know, rental properties, but, like, that was it. So everybody was sort of, like, Gerhardt, Christine: nestled together, so to speak, you know? Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah.

00:42:24.960 - 00:42:56.240

Gerhardt, Christine: I don't know what the experience is now that there are, you know, tens of thousands of people scattered, Gerhardt, Christine: you know, throughout Towson and, you know, as I said, online classes and whatnot, so… Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Sisson, Elizabeth: No, there's, like, there's way more dorms and apartment-style dorms, and then, you know, some people will do, like, rentals off-campus, and then there's some buildings that are kind of, like, associated with

00:42:56.240 - 00:43:13.480

Sisson, Elizabeth: Towson, but they're not Towson properties, so there's a lot more options now. Sisson, Elizabeth: Right. Sisson, Elizabeth: And the campus, like, definitely from my research, like, what I saw in the past compared to now, it's much bigger, much more expanded. Gerhardt, Christine: Yeah, and Towson's very different, too. I mean,

00:43:13.480 - 00:43:27.010

Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: when, you know, when I was there, Towson was a little town. It was a little town. I mean, what they now call the old courthouse, the courthouse that you know, was not there. Sisson, Elizabeth: Yup. Gerhardt, Christine: There was just a literal

00:43:27.570 - 00:43:50.230

Gerhardt, Christine: small town courthouse there, you know, with fountains out front and all that kind of stuff, you know, and the post office with big pillars out front. It was a very walkable town, lots of… You know, it was a college town, so all up and down York Road were the bars, and Gerhardt, Christine: trust me, we went from one end. Gerhardt, Christine: Pardon me? [inaudible]

00:43:50.820 - 00:44:29.180

Gerhardt, Christine: Yeah, my husband says it's more like the way Bel Air is right now, but, you know, as students, we started at one end of York Road. Gerhardt, Christine: I don't know, these bars, the Kent Lounge, the Angel's Grotto, we worked our way all the way up, and it was all the way up York Road, you just went from one to the next, to the next, to the next, and then down the other side of York Road, you know, and it wasn't the healthiest thing to do. And, you know, I thank God I'm still alive, because Gerhardt, Christine: we also didn't know, we were not aware Gerhardt, Christine: of the dangers of driving and drinking. We, you know,

00:44:29.870 - 00:44:44.070

Gerhardt, Christine: if my kids and grandchildren and nieces and nephews did what I did, I would be apoplectic, you know? Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: I hope they don't, because I was just, Gerhardt, Christine: you know, a dumbass, you know, to do that.

00:44:45.390 - 00:45:17.220

Gerhardt, Christine: I did it, and again, thank God I'm here to tell about it, but it was a mistake, but that was part of campus life, too, that's what we did. And we started on Thursday night. I don't know if you still start Thursday nights, but yeah, you started Thursday because you could make it through one day with a hangover. Gerhardt, Christine: So you could get through Thursday, you could get through Friday with a hangover, and then you had the weekend to do it again and recover, you know? Sisson, Elizabeth: There you go. Gerhardt, Christine: But

00:45:17.750 - 00:45:42.570

Gerhardt, Christine: that was part of campus life, you know, and again, I mean, many of those places are gone, they've leveled Gerhardt, Christine: the, you know, where the dorms are now, like, across... Gerhardt, Christine: I guess it's on the other side of Burke Avenue. There's apartments that are student housing and all. And that used to be Gerhardt, Christine: regular people living there.

00:45:42.710 - 00:46:01.010

Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: So you had more of an interaction with regular people. Gerhardt, Christine: You know, so… And then I worked, you know. Gerhardt, Christine: After I left Towson State as an employee, I went to work at social services up in Towson.

00:46:01.480 - 00:46:19.340

Gerhardt, Christine: So I had a kind of a more comprehensive Gerhardt, Christine: view of the population of Towson as a whole, not just the university, but Towson as a whole, you know, Gerhardt, Christine: which was very diverse at that time. It no longer is, but then Gerhardt, Christine: it was quite diverse, you know.

00:46:19.710 - 00:46:42.170

Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Sisson, Elizabeth: Is there any additional memories or things that you'd like to share about your time at the Women's Center or with Towson? Gerhardt, Christine: No, Gerhardt, Christine: I mean, no, I don't think I have anything to add, I mean, just, the Women's Center was a place to relax, it was a place to speak freely, you know.

00:46:42.420 - 00:47:06.120

Gerhardt, Christine: Anything you want to speak about. Gerhardt, Christine: There were no holds barred, you know, and no one ridiculed anybody, you know, no one Gerhardt, Christine: was shocked at anything, you know. No one denigrated anybody, nobody was judgmental, it was just, like, Gerhardt, Christine: you know, you live and let live, and, you know,

00:47:07.830 - 00:47:33.140

Gerhardt, Christine: you couldn't conduct a world like that, you know? You can't go to the work world and, you know, have an employee doing XYZ on the job and say, yeah, that's okay, that's cool. No, you can't do that. Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: But Gerhardt, Christine: you know, it was good, though. It was a good experience, because I, you know, for me, I come from a very, you know, conservative background. I had 12 years of Catholic school.

00:47:33.280 - 00:47:59.340

Gerhardt, Christine: [inaudible] Gerhardt, Christine: And so, these were not things that were talked about in my past. So it was good for me, you know, and it was good for Gerhardt, Christine: my relationships with women, because as I said, I was brought up with boys. Gerhardt, Christine: And I didn't have any close girlfriends, because I was brought up with boys. And ironically, even in my neighborhood where I lived as a kid,

00:47:59.500 - 00:48:16.520

Gerhardt, Christine: they were all boys. I don't know why, but there were, like, no girls in the neighborhood. Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: So I didn't have a lot of close female friends. So it was, you know, a good place to develop Gerhardt, Christine: woman-to-woman relationships, you know.

00:48:16.520 - 00:48:37.600

Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Gerhardt, Christine: Not girl to girl, not, you know, Gerhardt, Christine: talking about your date, or where you went, or, you know, did he kiss you, or what did he do to you, you know? You know, but it was good. It was good for developing relationships, and as I said, having a space that was free Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah.

00:48:37.600 - 00:48:59.900

Gerhardt, Christine: to talk about, and we did talk about everything. Sisson, Elizabeth: Yeah. Sisson, Elizabeth: Thank you so much for all of this information. You've really added so much to my research, and like, the things that you've said have been so helpful to me, and I've had a great time talking, so thank you so much. Gerhardt, Christine: Well, I'm glad it was helpful, you know, when you said… When you

00:49:00.410 - 00:49:41.730

Gerhardt, Christine: approached, and I got your… I was like, Gerhardt, Christine: the Women's Center, my God, where is that out in my brain? It's like, let me think about this. Did I, you know, do I even remember? And how did my name ever get on any list associated with that? How, you know… Sisson, Elizabeth: No, yeah, so you were on, the Women's Center Board, when you were Sisson, Elizabeth: a part of the Women's Center, and I was going through an issue of On Our Minds, and it listed the members of the Women's Center Board, so I, you know, went through that, and, you know, I was trying to get creative, because at the beginning, it was really hard to find a lot of women,

00:49:41.970 - 00:50:11.550

Sisson, Elizabeth: because, like, a lot of women have changed their name, or they're just not online, and one of my Sisson, Elizabeth: colleagues in my research cohort had said, well, I'm on Facebook, and I've reached out to some people on Facebook, and I was like, wait, let me try this, like, maybe this could be, Gerhardt, Christine: Oh. Sisson, Elizabeth: you know, a beneficial way, like, maybe I could get somebody's contact from here, and it worked, so I was so glad that I got a message back.

00:50:11.670 - 00:50:29.860

Gerhardt, Christine: That's good, because… And I do keep my own name, even though I've been married twice now, and Gerhardt, Christine: now very happily, you know. Gerhardt, Christine: But I have always kept my own name, and that was important to me. Gerhardt, Christine: That was new. I mean, at the time of the Women's Center,

00:50:30.110 - 00:50:54.500

Gerhardt, Christine: keeping your own name was a big issue. You know, you had to get special permissions and crap from, like, DMV and stuff like that. Sisson, Elizabeth: Wow. Gerhardt, Christine: And you could not hyphenate your name Gerhardt, Christine: on your driver's license, they wouldn't allow you, they wouldn't allow hyphens, you know. So it was an issue, but I'm glad I kept it, because professionally, when I would go from one job to another,

00:50:55.420 - 00:51:29.540

Gerhardt, Christine: Chris Gerhardt, they knew Chris Gerhardt, you know, when I went from the local social services to the central office in Maryland, Gerhardt, Christine: people knew me, you know? Yeah. I went to the federal government, people knew me, you know, by my name, which is important to me, so yeah. So I'll say that the support of the Women's Center in that small… It's not really small, but being able to encourage people to keep their names Gerhardt, Christine: and their identities, you know, is important. But, yeah, Facebook is something, isn't it? You know? Sisson, Elizabeth: Oh, yeah.

00:51:29.540 - 00:51:39.930

Gerhardt, Christine: If you look at my posts, all you see are my granddaughters and my dog. Sisson, Elizabeth: Oh, I love that. Sisson, Elizabeth: Well, thank you so much. Sisson, Elizabeth: I hope you have...

00:51:39.930 - 00:51:48.450

Sisson, Elizabeth: It was so nice to meet you. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your week. Gerhardt, Christine: Thanks very much, you too. Good luck on your project. Sisson, Elizabeth: Thank you. Bye-bye. Gerhardt, Christine: Bye.