Telling the Whole Story event recording

Good afternoon, everyone. Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome. My name is Brian Jara. Here at TU

I serve as Director of Inclusive Excellence, Education and Support within the Office of Inclusion. Play trailer of the song Chris. What?

Thank you for that, Brian, and thank you everyone for being here. Let me add just briefly a couple of things. OK.

I think I have a mic too. So yeah, you can put yours as high as you'd like. All right, So welcome, everybody. Thank you for joining us.

So we're going to dive in and provide a little bit of history if you would like to. Dr. Jaky, you can join if you'd like. You're fine.

No worries. We'll be informal. It's our last panelist. Thank you.

I'm glad you found us. Yes. No. It's a very descriptive name.

It is hidden in plain sight. All right. Well, so as Brian mentioned, this project really started off with collaboration at its heart.

So when I started, I believe at my welcome party about a week into being at TU, Christian attended and sidled up and said, I would really like to talk to you about internships and and potential collaborations.

So our partnership has gone back to the beginning. And in 2017, I had the opportunity to start working with Brian to think about how we could mobilize our history, our local context as a way to engage our community more with

understanding these more challenging concepts like diversity and inclusion. Understanding that I mean as if any of you were at yesterday's faculty symposium, the idea of using your local context as a

jumping off point to really engage students and help them connect with some of these larger, perhaps more complex topics. So it's become a much larger project obviously.

And I will say on Friday, we are Azariah and I are both being included in a panel and poster presentation at Goucher College that's also talking about similar projects. So I think we let's go to the next one to the next one organs

enough. So as Brian suggested, Ashley, I think we're up to seven total people, that might be right, is thinking about what do we already know about history of housing protection, The things

that I just need. And I'll just say, I mean, these research assistants, typically when we think about the archives, we think of history and old stuff, but our research assistants have come from all

disciplines across campus. So women's studies, communication studies, history, the arts, psychology. It's been interesting to see different people's

perspectives and what they bring to the project. So one of the first things we did was research right materials together. And I think, yeah.

And essentially one of our goals is to create a set of resources and so to talk just briefly about some of the projects and the resources that have come out, one is a primary source list.

So, we have over 1,000 records that we have identified within our collections, identifying different topics, themes, points in history that relate to diversity and inclusion, equity. But this research has also shown us where the gaps are, where we

don't have a lot of information, where voices have been silenced. And so that was a jumping off point for us to start building out the resources that we can through connecting with our community members and collecting oral histories.

So one of our panelists, Allyn, was one of the first student researchers that was bold enough to reach out to our first oral history participant. So some of you may have been at the event earlier this year

honoring Whitney LeBlanc, who is our first Black faculty member on campus. Sadly, we lost him about a year ago. So I mean, these people, these community members aren't

always going to be around. So the more that we can reach out and build those relationships again and capture those pieces of history, the richer that our collections and our community will be.

One of the other things that second or third people that came before have done it maybe five or six times now knowing not just about how to do the stories that might be that might be it. Yeah.

OK. So our plan for the time that we had for us some of our. None. Ari and I have the pleasure of introducing our alumni.

So, Miss Linda Morris graduated from Towson State University in 1969. She spent her entire career in public service. After working at the Baltimore City Department of Social

Services serving families on public assistance, Linda left Baltimore to work for the federal government in the field of Equal Employment Opportunity. During her federal tenure, she worked at the Equal Employment

Opportunity Commission, the Patent and Trademark Office, and she retired as the EEO Complaints Branch Manager for the National Institutes of Health in 2003. Linda began freelance writing in the mid 1970s and her work

appeared in Essence and Baltimore Magazine. She's the author of Cherry Hill Raising Successful Black Children in Jim Crow Baltimore, which was published in 2018 and is available in the TU Bookstore.

If you are all heading to the Union after this, she is currently working on a similar book about Black families in Turner Station and Sparrows Point between World War Two and the late 1960s when Baltimore was an industrial giant.

Doctor Jacqueline L Banks came to Towson from Wicomico County, Maryland in 1973, financed by a four year academic scholarship from Campbell Soup Company. She became involved in campus life immediately by joining the

Black Student Union and becoming a cheerleader. Two years later she made history as a charter member of of Mu Mu Chapter of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority responsible for membership, forever changing the cultural campus life at Towson

with the introduction of the Divine 7 Black Greek organizations. Dr. Jaky B has enjoyed a life of community service, civil and

social justice activism that was fueled here at Towson University that resulted in her being a political appointee of the Ehrlich-Steele Administration. Currently, she is engaged in projects designed to improve the

self esteem of black girls by using academics and the arts that include an interactive online learning platform. She is an award-winning author and publisher of a children's book that is based on school integration that uses mermaids

to share the experience. Additional books are slated for publication this year. She has been a voice for change to improve the lives of children and their families.

And our last panelist is Edna Primrose. She's the founder and president of Differenza, LLC, a 1984 graduate of TU. She has over 20 years of executive expertise leading

comprehensive programs and organizational management, workforce development, and community development in the public and private sectors. During her tenure at a federal as a set the GOSH.

As a federal senior executive, she served in Administrator and Chief Operating Officer positions in the US Department of Agriculture and Labor for multibillion dollar programs in youth education, water infrastructure, public private

partnerships and administrative operations. As a private sector executive in multiple industry sectors, Miss Primrose managed complex programs, developed leadership and organizational structures for growing companies, and led

major policy initiatives. She is a TU alum who serves as president of the TU Foundation Board of Directors and on the College of Business and Economics Advisory Board, as well as environmental boards on

water access and equity. All right, so we've got some questions, though this can be sort of we can take. I'll go first.

I wanted to do it. When I came back to the 1970 reunion and met Ashley and Gemma, they had the interview with Mr. LeBlanc and I was just so thrilled to see him and because

I had taken three of his courses and he talked about his experience here at Towson and it was not a good experience. And I had not had a good experience. And when I saw him, I felt this though.

Oh, it wasn't just me. Because as a young person, that's what you think. So that's why I wanted to get involved to validate his experience.

Oh, the mics on they're on a testing, testing. I invite you to make it. Testing. Testing.

It's on. Mine is on. Oh, OK. Well, then I'll talk.

And I'm not sharing the mic. I'm just kidding. Well, I participated because you asked. And actually, I was really floored that you asked and felt

that it was definitely an an honor to be to be asked. And so that's why I'm here. But as as part of this asking and requesting in this process is maybe even visit a lot about my time at Towson and not only

and that history as well as the history that has sprung in my life and has moved me forward beyond Towson. So it's been a very reflective process for me to even to have to participate and think about what was I thinking as a 18-year-

old, you know, 19, 20, and what's that impact on me today as in May I will be 69 even. So it's... Towson has played a tremendous part in... I guess in who I am, laying the foundation.

But yeah, so just because you ask, yeah, I would say the same. I was surprised to be asked. I think when when I was at Towson, we weren't really part of the fabric and so we weren't really heard.

So it was really an opportunity to be part of Towson's history because we are part of Towson's history and it means a lot that someone is interested to find out what our experiences were. Not only that, even as I think about my own family, if it, this

project has made me be more intentional around writing things down from the older people in my family, you know, where the stories just travel by word of mouth. And so I think that this project has helped me reflect on the

rich legacy of Towson and the fact that even in my small space, I'm a part of it. So it's been really rewarding. 2 BHK did a great job.

I would say I have a very... Not a similar story to Allyn as to how she got here, but I read the job description actually on Handshake and I had that same moment of, like, Oh my gosh, I need to be a part of this.

It was an instant. I just knew I really had the same passions. It really aligned with everything I was doing. This was around the time also that I had become the the Co-

director of Towson freedom School, which is where we we really work hard to lift up underrepresented voices. And so as I was really getting into that, this job kind of came around the same time and I was like, OK, I really should apply.

And then I got it, thankfully. And ever since then I've just been here working. And like Allyn said, there's a lot of gaps in the work. And so it makes me, it made me very motivated to, like, meet the

people that, you know, I'm reading about or, like, I worked a lot of reading about the minority retention plan. So actually getting to meet the people that it was made for and, like, hearing how they felt about it.

That was really important to me to actually hear the experiences of the students here. Yeah, that's my answer. One of the things I want to add, yes.

Well, so I'll ask the next question. In thinking back about your time at Towson or in thinking about the research that you did for this project, what is something that stands out to you?

Well, for me, it was Allie's compassionate way of interviewing. As I said, I had a bad experience with Towson until two years ago.

I would not. I didn't change my opinion about Towson until two years ago when I met Ashley and and Gemma and I came to the night. Well, first of all, I was upset because I didn't like being put

in the class of 1970. And I'm so glad you said 1969 in your in your interview because that's when I was supposed to have come out. But I came through Towson at a time right when we had the riots

in Baltimore. That was my junior year. But when I came to Towson, it was not a welcoming environment. Nobody called me any names, but it was not welcoming.

People would get up when black students came into the student center. If we entered a room, they would leave. So I didn't.

And I was just angry with Towson because I feel as though everything I went through caused me to come out late. And I, it was very important to me to graduate in 1969 because I had skipped a year in school.

So it's a convergence of things. But Ally's compassion in interviewing and how she developed questions that brought this all up for me. It took it out of my system.

I had it bottled up here and it took it out and it helped me to reconcile, to reconcile all of these events. And so when I left the reunion in 19, when we had a two years ago, I just felt better about Towson because I

had been hurt my backgrounds. I came to Towson in 73 and I never realized the part of this, being part of this project has made me realize that we were part of the what Towson is today.

We were part of the change. You know, it was a handful of African American students, black students. Then all of a sudden it's an influx of us.

And I didn't realize until this project that I was part of that influx, the beginning of the change of the of the whole culture and demographics of this university. So being a part of this has helped in that way.

But I came from a rural area and when we are always the minority. So coming to Towson didn't look any different for me. You know, I came through a school system where and I was most times only black in my class.

So I didn't so come to Towson get an instruction from black and professors interacting with white administrators. That was part of my norm. So it wasn't anything unusual for me.

I didn't maybe feel the same way this and I've got, not that was accustomed to racism, but I knew what it looked like. I couldn't identify it all the time. I couldn't verbalize it and I'm part of coming to Towson and

becoming part of the Black student Union was the process that helped me to verbalize all that was happening. It was a great time, but cultural shifts in America and in 73, you know, we got the Vietnam War going on.

We got, you know, our president, you know, I'm innocent, you know, resigning. You know, we have the drug culture, you know, we have, you know, we can vote now at 18.

It's, you know, it's legally drink at 18. We've got, you know, the sexual revolution. All this is happening when we hit the ground running at Towson University.

It was a lot going on in America during that, the 70s, the early 70s moving forward. So we survived it, thank God. But it was a lot.

But but being a part of this project has certainly made me reflect on that. And as my sober has said, also on my own family history, on my own family history and wanted to make sure that that is properly

documented. And it started me on another search and in another direction of my family history. I'm so excited to share, but I won't, but some of the

information I had found out. But yeah, being a part of this does make you reflect on then and now, then and now. So I wouldn't say that I didn't have any feelings of animosity.

And maybe part of it is because I still kept the connection to Towson because of the sorority connection. So I've never really left Towson in that sense. And that are the Mu Mu chapter's always been in existence and

it's still in existence today. So to allow me to always have a connection back to Towson that way. So for me, it's interesting when I think about how I got to

Towson because my mom had gotten divorced when I was young, so we lived in different parts of Prince George's County. And the way that I put it is that she kept moving us to better neighborhoods to help change the trajectory of our

lives. So ultimately when I right before 6th grade, I ended up in Bowie, MD and I lived there until my second year in college at Towson.

So I wouldn't even have thought of going to college or I didn't have any role models. I'm the first one in my family not only to go to college but also to graduate from college.

So it would not have necessarily occurred to me. But being in Bowie was awesome because it opened up so many resources and all kinds of cool things, a lot of things I couldn't afford to do, But it was it was it was pivotal for my

education and I made a lot of lifelong friends. Now, the thing about Bowie is that it was a Levittown community. And if you know anything about these planned communities that

were built by Levitt, they were also heavily segregated. So I was one of five, four or five black families that actually lived in Bowie. The other African American students that went to Bowie were

bussed in. So there was a whole divide between people who lived in Bowie and people who didn't. And then and as a black person who lived in Bowie, I straddled

both worlds. So I was very comfortable choosing Towson because I was used to being in the majority white environment. Now, the thing that surprised me when I got here is even though

it wasn't segregated, it was really segregated. So everybody went to school together, but the white students sat alone, the black students sat together. Unless you played sports or in a club, you might intermingle, but

not really. So for me it was, it was a rediscovery of my blackness, if that makes sense, to discover a whole family, a whole community of people that helped me get back into, back in sync with who

I am and and my family legacy. I think the other thing is that I think that's one of the reasons why we're still very close. I think we were somewhere between 3 and 8% of Towson's

population when I was here. But there were a lot of commuter students. But people didn't ask our opinion. We weren't really included.

We had the Black Student Union. I was very active in that. But in terms of mainstream Towson, I was a pom pom my first year, I will say that.

But mainstream, we were not really included. And I think that, you know, to do this project meant a lot to me to be able to tell my story. I also think about Miss Barnes and Miss Harris, the first black

graduates of Towson. And I was there and I know my store, Jaky was there. Many people were there when we rededicated the halls to them. And to hear, to hear Miss Harris's or maybe Miss Barnes

son talk about the fact that they started in 1955, the same summer that Emmett Till was murdered. I was born. I was just like, wow, I cannot even imagine being the 1st 3, 4, 5

black students here. And, and Towson really only integrated because they forced them to implement the second Brown versus Board of Education. So when you think about that and I stood, you know, under that

tent and there were, I don't know, 4 or 500 beautiful black people who graduated from Towson because they started it. So I felt compelled, you know, to do this project. I just cannot tell you how touching it was to be seen that

day. I'm going to share this background. I come from a community of 200 people, about 100 black, 100 white, and all the black people related to me somehow through

family or marriage to family. Let me just share that. So when I came to Towson and saw, I just learned last year, 200 black people in one space, that was a town for me.

And I just gravitated towards that and wanted to interact with as many black people as I could. That was, you know, at this level. So I did the reverse.

I had no desire to really interact. You know, I've done all the little high school stuff and student government all like that and, and fitting in. And I just said I didn't have that same desire when I was at

Towson to do that. And looking back, and there's some, you know, so I didn't feel that draw to try to fit in or I didn't even feel excluded in that sense because I was making my own choices.

So I was choosing not to be involved in student government, even though I knew it was there. And does that make sense? Yeah.

I was just choosing not to do it. But the cheerleading, I could not resist. That was fun. That was fun.

I would say for me, sorry, I would say for me, this project has also been something that's definitely shaped my undergrad career. And I would say something that's been really important to me as I

do this research and I continue to do it, is talking to the alumni. It's been, like, a really important part to me because, you know, when I read the documents and I'm sitting there,

you know, all day, it's one thing to read it, but it's a different thing to hear the experience and to actually, like, look at the person and know the person that was on that paper. You know, it's very different.

And it kind of like what Allyn said, like it kind of hurts sometimes when you listen to these things because it's like, the black students and especially like the 70s and the 80s, they went through so much from some so much overt racism.

It's also, like, subconscious racism, like, not even, you know, maybe people didn't realize that they were being very discriminatory, but they were being very discriminatory.

And it was both students and faculty that I've seen in the archives. And it's like, it shocks me now because as a student now, that's not what I experienced, but it's like, the people before

me, that's what they experienced. So it's been really important to me to take the time to really, like, listen to their stories. And like, after my interview, I go, I re-watch it and I do the transcripts and, like, that part

is also very, and it allows me to, like, reflect on what you guys said and take it a little bit more in. And it also gives me a chance to, like, think more about what can I do more to, like, help stories

similar to yours be heard and all the names you guys give me and I'm always appreciative. But yeah, I would say it's been really, it's, like, almost an emotional job I would say, like you kind of take it home, but I

really appreciate everything. You guys let me in. You're wonderful. One of the things that that came up, it has been so amazing for

found out that kind of collection. OK, so question do you ask me? What question do we just ask #3 OK, so oh, it has meant a whole catharsis for me to participate and be able to get all of that

out of my gut when I came to. Well, the reason I wanted to come to the 1970 reunion was I got a postcard and it said it was only $50.00 and it was two meals and I love to eat.

I said, I'm going to go. I said, I don't want to be associated with the class in 1970, but I'm going to go. And of course I didn't know anybody.

And so when I went, I was sitting in the car. My sister also went to Towson and she was in the class of 1966, the Centennial year. And I have a story about the bell tower that you could ask me

later. I went out in the bell tower with the guy. There were thirty of us black students here at the time. And this guy was we when the several of them on work study

and Calvin Jones was charged with ringing the bell 100 times. So I had come that day, it was to my sister's graduation. I was all in white and a nice white roller brim hat. And he said, look, I need somebody.

He said I can ring the bell. He said, but I can't count at the same time. So I need somebody to help me count. And so I said, oh sure, you know, I didn't think anything of

it. And so we went to Stephens Hall and pull down the steps to go up and I'm dressed in these little pointed toe shoes, white stockings, white dress, white hat, and then get up there and

see how dusty it is going up. And then we get to the last part of it with the rungs on the wall. And I had to take my shoes off because the point of the shoe

wouldn't allow me to get a grip. So anyway, I went up. I counted the 100. And so while we're up there, Calvin is saying, wow, he said.

And we were making all sorts of Esmeralda and Quasimodo jokes, you know? And so he said, wow, Lady Liberty has nothing on you. You are a vision.

I thought, oh, wow, that was worth it. So that was the best thing about me coming to Towson. I wasn't going there, but any, I'm sorry, I was so interested in stuff.

I know, I know. I forgot you, Jackie. So the question was, Oh, well, you feel seen, you know, you feel valued.

I, you know, once again, I had no idea. And you think about it, oh, that I history is not even there in the archives. I didn't even know there were archives, you know what I'm

saying? So it's, I mean, of course, you know, but you don't really think about it of what's in them. And so this, you know, this whole journey of making sure

that all the voices of Towson are included, this is quite remarkable in and of itself as we tried to, I guess, balance out the journey of what it means to be a university. We... It's 2024 and we already know where we are.

But the journey, the journey. So it's been a lot, it's been a lot. So a lot of reflection, a lot of reflection, a lot of reflection. I absolutely agree.

It's definitely taken me down memory lane on so many levels. And you know, you mentioned the communities. We're still a very close knit community. Tell ourselves the TU old heads, you know, we had all the

good music in the 70s and 80s and, like, so we had dances every Friday and Saturday in Newell Hall. I'm sure people can't even imagine. Didn't look like Gryffindorf.

There was a big open space and we had dances every Friday and Saturday. And then sometimes you go over to the residence tower for parties. But I'm just glad there was no social media.

But we're still really close. So this is like over 40 years, you know, of relationships. So it's awesome. And I pledged Delta Sigma Theta sorority in 1981 and very proud

to be a member of the sorority and to be devoted to public service. So at the same time that we rededicated the Barnes and Harris halls, we also had the dedication for the Divine 9,

the historic Black Greek Fraternities and Sororities Memorial that's at Towson. And like you said, when I was here, I was looking at charter members.

I know my own sorority charter members. Yeah, thank you, but not the others. So it was weird for me to see people's names that I went to Towson with.

I didn't realize they were just starting that chapter when I was here. So it really kind of gets you to be more reflective about all the history that that was built, that was created,

that wasn't recognized or talked about. And again, to be able to feel so valued. And I think that, you know, the more people you interview, the more stories you'll get.

And just those perspectives. I want to say the other thing is that I became part of the Towson Foundation board in 2017. And my very good friend Sarah Metzger asked me if I'd be

interested in joining the board because she met my friend Gigi and I tagged along. And then she called me a couple weeks later and I was like, why? Why would I want to join

Towson's board? And then I thought, you know, am I going to be part of the change or am I going to sit back and complain? So I decided to join and it's been really rewarding. I think what makes this project so important is because we see

Towson now and we see such a difference. I never thought I would see Towson be a majority minority university ever. I never thought I would be president of the foundation

board. And it's... The vibe is great. It feels great to be a part of everything here. We have the coolest students.

When you walk on campus, it just feels wonderful. And everyone is together. So. So it means a lot to be part of this project, you know?

Especially because Towson is being intentional about making things right and then moving forward and making things better. I would say for me, something actually was innocent to me

during our interview together was me being part of the project is becoming part of the history that has really stuck with me and kind of shaped how I move forward with the things that I do with this project.

I feel like at first I was thinking, oh, it's just, you know, of course I am highlighting and honoring the stories. But I think some of you also just said it again, was being

intentional with it. I think it's really important to be intentional with how I ask the questions, how I, you know, document the histories, what I look at in the archives, how I just do my job really.

And I think it's been really just honor. I'm just very happy and grateful that I got the opportunity to become part of the history and become part of, you know, telling it because it's not something that a lot of students

said. Seven. So seven students have gone to do what I do, and I'm very grateful that, you know, I've been able to become part of the

history and not just know it, but actually, you know, do something with it. Well, I think that something that has been very amazing and humbling for me, and I don't know if it affects you as well,

is to see our students utilize these resources when they come in for classes or to answer their own personal questions and to understand aspects, voices, things that would not have otherwise been available to them.

So to be able to gain inspiration from our alumni, to know that we have accomplished people in our midst, writers and executives and, you know, people that are doing things, they're making history that allows our current students to

see what's possible, you know, just to see what leadership went on amongst their peers and to be able to appreciate that they were here as well, right. They have a lot in common, even if they often might feel alone

or might feel like they don't know what they're doing as freshmen in their first few days. So thank you all, I mean, for for being a part of this project and helping pass that forward and continue to enrich the

history that we have. Thank you for doing well. Thank you for asking. We want to take credits.

Yeah. I mean we don't want to hog all of the question opportunities. No pressure. I feel compelled to say and listening to to Linda

particularly and I hear that pain. I don't and then based on what I have said, I don't want anyone to think here that I'm not feel this the brunt of racism while a student here at Towson.

Now we all felt that. We all felt that and I in what case the particularly I mean, I remember taking a summer school course and speech. I was a communications major by that time.

I had some several changes along the way, but communications major and I'll never forget that class and the students. I was only black student in the class and the white student came to me and said, you know, you were the best student in this

class, you should get an A. And I knew I was not going to get an A, I knew I was not going to get an A. And sure enough, I got a B. I got a B.

And because I knew that particular professor who's well known, just retired from university long ago, was not going to give me that A. And I remember his own attitude towards me of such disdain, you

know, it's the attitude, the non verbal communication that that will come across that you're not wanted here, you know, whatever the negative feelings that would come from that. So I just wanted you to know that don't think that I had

because I had a great time as a cheerleader, I was in the sorority and, you know, I was, you know, the social butterfly. I too lived under that umbrella.

We all experienced it. So we're glad that this is part, this is where the journey is today, you know, and we are claiming that history. We're not shying away from it because it is part of Towson's

history. But look what we are today. So, yeah. So wow, that's a long time.

Wow, I probably gave it away. Yes, thank you for that. History is a marvelous teacher. This may have 8006 months.

I've heard a lot of people met a lot of people some about the edges topics talk about this incredibly important camera for me to hear from conversations have. So I first want to really say how much how appreciative I am

meeting at my office a month ago. I think a program this week. I want this conversation program because I think it's part of the legacy that if we ignore we won't remember and if we don't

remember. So the question I have if you were to say to be responsibility. I've been hearing but an institution I've been hearing

too that has legacy about the members talking together before too. And I mentioned it was not great. Remember that comment was yesterday.

It was only a couple of piece of book. Tell me maybe each of you, if there's lesson that you've learned that you want to make sure that I also I've learned without necessarily experiencing, but what that

lesson is so that students who are housing tomorrow will not have to experience. I think a lesson that's important is to learn to share our stories and make make it conversational without assigning

blame, but upfront, let young people know when they are telling these stories of the hurt that we're not blaming you, but we have to get it up and out. We have to get it out, but don't you take it

personally, but understand that this happened. You need to be true to yourself, what you're feeling and thinking, and if it feels uncomfortable then you need to, as a student, speak up.

So I would say on the other end, it's to truly listen. I felt one of the major components of racism is that you think you already know what the other person is thinking and feeling before they say it or whatever.

So just truly listening to what people are saying. It may sound minor, but if that person is expressing it, just listen without passing judgement. And if you start to ask questions, you may really find

out some, you know, may go on a path that you never even expected that would benefit the university and and your performance. Are you the new president by Chase?

Well, welcome. Thank you for being here. That's, you know, just really listening this one. Listen, we had a very engaged black alumni alliance and I

think like Ken Abrams is doing a great job. Partly conversation. Yeah, yeah, yes, he's on a great job. And I would just say just listen to voices like that, people who

represent the people, because he doesn't work in isolation. He does come back and then chat and have conversations with alumni. So you accept what you're saying.

And I took it to 50 meetings. I think it's there. Been listening and hearing but most important things. So when I think about the students, the students that are

here, I would say surround yourself with good people who will help you speak your truth and don't be afraid to speak your truth. You know, always stay your authentic selves, be true to

yourselves and when you have something to say, you should say it. And if you have to take somebody with you, your ride or die, you know, your best friend, whatever, then then you should

do that. So to you, Doctor Ginsburg, first of all, I think you just hit the ground running as a listener and I know that you have a rigorous schedule and have been doing that since even

before you started here. So I appreciate the fact that you're talking to many groups that are represented as part of the Towson community and really taking the time to listen and learn.

So I think that that's the right thing to do it and to be transparent with that as a leader myself, and working for large organizations where I helped to shape the organizational culture.

I sometimes also think about how much you can impact the culture because, you know, Doctor Schatzel was able to really, like, literally change the face of Towson and you bring a lot of richness to the position and a lot of inclusivity.

So just continue to be who you are because I think you're wonderful for Towson. Absolutely, stamp of approval, but you're amazing, you're amazing. Well, I've actually been one of the people, one of the groups

you met with, and so I think just continue doing that. I think from the meetings I have had with you, you are a good listener. You really do hear what we like.

I think when someone... Miss Linda just said about just letting us get it out. I think that's, like, honestly what we do in those meetings, like a lot of it is just students kind of blurting

at you and Doctor Patricia and just you guys just listen. And I think that really helps us feel heard and not judged or not put down for our thoughts. I'm not going to lie, I remember telling Ashley in my first

meeting with you, I was very nervous. I was like, I thought I was going to get, like, slapped on the wrist type thing. I was like, oh, I'm scared, like, I'm not going to go.

But it actually turned out to be, like, I feel like a really important conversation that we had. And I walked away feeling a little bit better. And then, you know, in the following days, you know, I feel

like there was action that came out of that meeting. So I was really, you know, impressed by that. And so I think just keep doing what you're doing and keep, you know, taking action and listening to the students, and

it'll be fine. Yeah, aye. All right, what does PWI stand for OK, doing from from Allie's interview?

It's not, it may not be a particular question, but she would ask how, how it made us feel because I did my interview with my sister Judy and we, she did both of us together.

Judy had a totally different experience. Judy said she didn't notice anything. She was oblivious to it. And that's why I wanted her to do it, because I wanted a

complete picture. But it was more that she drew... How she drew the information out because some of it I had forgotten and and we, Judy and I were fussing amongst ourselves while she was doing the

interview. But she did an excellent job and it was just how she managed to get the information. I would think for me it was the beginning, like just getting

started. I was new to the archives. I'm not... I'm an International Studies major. So, oh, that's so funny.

So, like, the history part is there, but I never got super into the history part of our major. So coming into the archives, I was completely oblivious to, like, what I was doing.

I had imposter syndrome really bad. I was like, I think Ali said it or Ali said it earlier, like, I'm not the right person for this job. I was really, like, doubting myself.

The archives are huge. Like, when you go in the backroom with all the folders, like, I guess I got so overwhelmed. I was like, where do I even start?

Like, so just starting, honestly, is the hardest part for me. It honestly, a lot of it is just reading over and over until you find something that really, like, interests you where it's like, I

want to know more. And for me, it was, like, the minority retention plan and, like, the study skills center, like, things that were made for Black students and how it worked with them.

So that was probably, like, when I started getting really into it over the summer. But the first month I was, like, really struggling to, like, find my groove almost.

But I think once you get started, you'll just find your thing. And then talking to people also makes it a lot better. So yeah.

Oh, that's easy. No, seriously, one year, for one full year, I had a white roommate stalling and we lived in the dorm, the high rise building, and her best friend in the singer room and I quad.

So she was able to maintain that relationship. But I was her roommate for a whole year. And I'm going to tell you right now, that was the best year I had academically at Towson because these girls, these young

ladies were straight A students, straight A students. They were speech pathology majors and yeah. And that's now the other side to that is, and it was a great year, but I also learned about nodos and it took to stay

up all night so you could get those aids on those exams. But I don't think I've never shared this before that. I had it for one whole year, one whole year. I had Sally for a roommate and it was a great year.

It was a great year. Yeah, yeah. She was from Hagerstown. No, I would just maintain that level of academic achievement in college.

And it was truly, you know, I came from a very strong academic background. Towson quite honestly, was not academically challenging in that respect because I did have, you know, I came here well prepared,

but I wasn't the best student. So that's why I don't fuss too much about what Towson did or did not do. I have to look at myself first also and what I was bringing to

the table and and and I know that I was not doing my very, very best. OK, but was it? But I grew in other ways.

I learned in other ways. I mean, I came from a very rural background, very rural. You know, I am and I want semi urban environment all of a sudden.

Then all of the calls for shifts in America just like this. So but Towson, but the black student union. The Black Student Union helped to give me voice what was going on on campus, what was going on outside of campus.

The leaders of the Black Student Union, I was just so impressed with them and how they were able to verbalize, how they were able to hold their meetings and bring the issues to the table, what was going on and for us to to respond.

So I would say just just be a better student academically. That's what I for myself, because I know what I was capable of. So I did want to say one thing too, about just sort of the

historic and systemic racism that sort of set the tone. I was just thinking about just how hard it was for me financially to get through Towson every semester.

I wasn't sure I was going to be able to make it, but I did because my mother sacrificed a lot. So I'm thinking about the Pell Grants. And when I went to school, Ronald Reagan became president

and it ultimately eliminated them. But the name of that grant was the other race grant. Can you even, can you even imagine that was the name of it? I got one, yeah.

Other race grant. I did get those very, I got them until he obliterated that program. And that's when I had to start getting student loans.

So it's really great to see, you know, what we have now. Yeah, yeah, it's true. It's true. So what I would tell my 18-year- old self is to stand in your

truth and to be open to say yes and to have fun. Because I think about times in my classes where I might have been the only black or the only black woman, you know, I didn't raise my hand or I might not have asked a question or I might

not have volunteered for something because I felt intimidated. So just, you know, just just be you. Be your fabulous self, be your authentic self.

And I was at an event a couple weeks ago in the College of Business. And so we had this great speaker. He was awesome.

And so, you know, students could ask questions. And so there was a young black woman sitting behind me who was just kind of going like this. And and the person with the microphone never saw her.

So they said one more question. I said she, it's her, she's going to ask the question. So she did. And I said afterwards, I said, girl, raise your hand up and be

proud. You belong here. You're supposed to be here. So you raise your hand so everybody sees you.

And that's what I would say to my 18 year old self. So anyway, yeah, I might have become a, I was a commuter student and most of the thirty, there were thirty of us here and I think maybe 28 of us were commuter students.

You know, I only remember one girl living in the dorm. But I think I would change. I would probably hearing the fun that they had and the sense of community.

I probably would have tried to get my parents to to let me come as a, you know, to stay on campus. And the tuition at the time sounds little now was $100 a semester.

But that was so hard for my dad and my mom. You know, they almost had to mortgage the house to get that. So I think, but I would want to be on campus. I think mine was 25, 25 hundred a year, a semester.

I was 1500 a year for it all. 1500 a year? I'm sorry, I don't have any really. I just can't think of an answer. it's any regrets? That's a great question.

Thank you. I got to go to high school and then I went to Michigan for college. It was pretty wide and I went back pastor's degree.

It was like, oh, back again. Thanks for City University. That was Nebraska. And when I came here, I didn't expect to be back in the East

because I did American history and I thought about lesson. But I did end up here and I got to town and it was much wider than I ever imagined. And I was like, oh, Maryland, it's on the state.

I had to recalibrate and so it's changed a lot. But I was wondering the question I had for you is that Baltimore is often called as that story of black and white for understanding the basics of black and black relations.

Huge part. I was wondering if your experiences you've had any interactions that might be able to share students cognitive route or whatever, not to speak of them that, but if there's

something in your experience with other minority students that could find it in that, I think it changes from just being your authentic self. You know, you've and you have to be willing to to speak

up and speak out. If you're not, then find someone else who will. But you just have to be yourself and you have to take a strong stand.

You know, life is not easy for any of us. So, you know, just be seen and be heard. Don't be invisible and expect things to to come about in a way that's better for you.

You have to be a participant in my experience coming out of Baltimore City. Baltimore City has always had, well, they had the second largest free black population.

So Baltimore City was totally different. I was in integrated schools from the time I went to junior high school. So that's why Towson was such a shock.

I did well in, I was in a two year accelerated program and came out with the National Honor Society. I went to Edmondson High School, came out about a 900 students nice in that class.

I get here to 1000 and it's like I hit a wall and I could not understand why. I just didn't understand it. But I would tell minority students that like you said, you

belong. You belong. And so you claim what's yours while you're here. Yeah, absolutely agree.

And when I think about Bowie, that is probably where I had more interaction with Asian, Latino, gay students. I mean, let's see, I started here in 79. So it was like Saturday Night Fever and you know, Grease and

all of that stuff happening. So there was a lot of self-expression. But when I got to Towson, you know, I'm sure that the Asian students and Latino students were in there.

In their microcosms as well. So if I didn't have a class with them, I didn't really see them. They didn't come to our parties or dances. We just didn't... We didn't hang out together.

And as far as the gay community, yes, I had quite a few gay friends and we were just a family. We just accepted each other for who we were at the time, you know. So it was really warm and

welcoming. I would say also they need to, it's OK to have your own support group. We all need support.

But be reminded, you want to say what if I were to go back and do things over again, would be reminded that you also need to interact and integrate with the larger community. Yeah, OK.

And I think I know I deliberately did not do that and about choice, but I would say to anyone else, you know, don't segregate yourself that way 100%. It's one thing and it's OK to have a support group, to have an

Asian whatever, to have a black student, you need that support, but make sure it's within the rims and interact with the larger community as well. Yeah.

Yeah. And I would say, Doctor Ginsburg and Doctor Anderson, absolutely just keep creating spaces where people can be together, you know, So that's, that's real important.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, I was forced. I did not know anything about... I knew about Towson because my sister was here.

But my mother was at Douglass High School, segregated school in Baltimore, and Thurgood Marshall had been a student there. So when Brown versus Board of Education became

law, she said, you all are going to integrated schools. And she made us come to Towson and I wanted to go to the University of Maryland, which I probably would have been more lost. I think that Maryland would have been a disaster for me.

But then I always when I would leave classes here at Towson and I'd go to Morgan for support for my social life, but I was forced to come. She said he did this and you all are going to go.

Go ahead. You go a little order here, right. Yep, Yep. It was my clearly my mother's decision.

I had never heard of Towson University. I had won this academic and national scholarship Campbell's Soup company and for four years and my mother at that time single.

My father died when I was 14. It raised me her husband and asked for advice from the plant manager and he recommended Towson for nursing because I started out as a pre-nursing major and like I said, I have

some changes along the way. But I have a great admiration for me with the medical feeling to say that. But it was my mother's choice.

I had never heard of Towson. So because it was a big deal that, you know, I was in the newspaper, I got the scholarship, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

So people knew I was coming to Towson and there were already two people from, I only had two high schools in my county, from the rival high school that were here and knew I was coming. And they made sure that they found me when I came to town.

And they both did successfully graduate from Towson. So, but I'll just, they have nursing. That's where you're going. OK.

So for me, we were really broke, so I knew I had to go in state. And I was a cheerleader through middle school and high school. So I'd been to a lot of the colleges in Maryland for

cheerleading camp. And I thought about University of Maryland, but it was too big, and someone mentioned Towson. Some of my friends from Bowie were going to Towson.

So I ended up coming to Towson for Early Decision Day and fell in love with it. It just felt right. And I applied and got in. It is the only school I applied to because

I just knew I was getting in and I did. So you know, so by December or January, I knew where I was going to go, but it felt, it felt like the right size. I thought I would get lost at College Park and, like, Salisbury

or Millersville, some of the others were too small and it was close enough that I could get a ride home very easily, but far enough that I had to live here. All right, so we have a few minutes left.

So we wanted to make some shameless plugs. So we are hiring for the Summer 2024 research team. So it is open to all of our undergraduate and graduate students.

All disciplines welcome and encouraged. So if you would like to follow the QR code, it'll take you to the application. Also on Handshake, if you're a faculty member here, I want to

share it with your students. Please do that and you can find it. We'd love to have you. I think you heard some good testimonials today.

How much about you? Yes, I will say that we have an amazing amount of alumni and former faculty and staff who would like to talk to students. So we need applicants.

So it is the application is open until April 22nd and there are a couple of flyers over there if you want to take one on the land. Yes, I also put some brochures for the Special Collections and

University Archives. You also could donate to the project if it's so cheering. You can find this on the foundation page. We don't have our own little drop down menu.

You can write in. You can write, I think if you write in, yes. Oh, good. So highlighted in the big give this year.

April 17th, 24 hours to donate. Joint project of the Library and College of Liberal Arts. So please tell me. I also want to say, which I meant to say earlier, Ashley is

going to tell you the best way to get there. So I put some brochures over by the door. But if you go to archives.towson.edu, you can navigate to the owner thing to you history project and you'll

see those interviews and they really are worth your time, I promise you. And there are more being added, so I will put in another plug in.

So alum Marcy Jackson just had our most recent oral history last week, so stay tuned for that oral history to be added to the website. So thank you all.

It's just our pictures, in case you weren't familiar with the three of us yet as well. There would be no projects without our student researchers and our people being willing to share their experiences.

Sometimes painful, but joyous to you. So thank you from the bottom of our sweet thank you. Thank all of you for coming. Yes.