Interview with Tamisha Ponder

Hi. Can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you now. Hi, Jayden. Yeah, sorry about that.

I was on the wrong Zoom account, so. OK, so, this is an interview with Doctor Tamisha Ponder conducted by me, Jayden Daniels on November 7th at 12:00 PM. So my first question is, when did you come to Towson and how

long did you stay? OK. I started Towson in the fall of 2009 as a master's student in Women's and Gender Studies.

I graduated in May of 2011, so let's say September 2009 to May 2011. OK. And what made you decide to come to Towson?

So I had just completed my undergraduate, my bachelor's degree, and I had minored in women's studies at Louis State University. And I wanted to further that education.

And I looked into a local program. I looked up some programs and discovered that Towson had the master's program and it was the only one that was pretty much in the area, in the region.

And that is the only graduate program I applied to. So I wanted to further my education in women's studies and Towson had the program. OK, so then what is or what was your relationship to the women's

studies slash women's and gender studies program at Towson My relationship? Can you elaborate a little bit more? So, like, if you do anything in the program or, like,

did you like... Yeah, like, stuff like that. Thank you, thank you. That actually I'm so glad you asked that because I forgot until you said it.

I was a graduate assistant. I received a scholarship. I forgot, it's really been some time. I received assistantship with the program.

Wait, hold on, did I? Wait. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me go back. Let me go back.

So, I was a graduate assistant, but I don't believe it was with the program. So, when I was a master's student at Towson, I was a graduate assistant, but I was a graduate assistant with the Center for

Student Diversity. And in that I was the program coordinator for the SAGE program, the Center for Women's Studies, and [inaudible] women's and for the LGBT Rainbow Lounge.

I have to go back and see if whether or not I'm crazy, I don't remember whether or not it was with the department, but I did receive a... OK, so, just know that I was a graduate assistant.

That's the funny thing 'cause I'm not sure. Are you in masters or undergrad? You undergrad? I'm an undergrad. So when you go for your master's, you can get a, you

know, program. I'm trying to see if... I'm trying to remember whether or not it was with the department or whether or not it was with the student affairs.

I think it was student affairs. I think I applied for a GA position and I got it with student affairs. It wasn't with the program, but I was a GA.

So in the program while I was a master's student, I did a couple of things, not only being a GA at Towson, but I was also involved in planning our first ever conference. I'm quite certain it does not continue anymore, but it was

called Sex Fest. So Sex Fest was in 2011. It was a sex positive convention - conference, sex positive conference talking about shaming, sex shaming, slut

shaming, sexual health and reproductive health. And that was held in the spring semester of 2011. So I would say I spent that last year of my graduate program coordinating that conference and it was quite successful.

That was the first ever, it was called Sex Fest 2011. So that's what we did. In terms of my relationship with the program, I was very involved considering I was a graduate assistant.

So I did attend, like, the meetings, I stayed after, I was in study groups and so forth. So I was pretty involved with the program. Yes. Hopefully that answers your question.

It did. It did take me back. That was a long time ago, OK, that takes me back. OK, so how did your educational experiences and life experiences

lead to your interest in women's and gender studies? OK, so I entered the program. Like I said, I had an interest because I had a prior minor in women's studies in undergrad.

But what led me to women's studies was actually my personal... So I majored, sorry, my concentration on my track, I did the health and sexuality track with women's

studies. At the time it was women's studies, it wasn't women and gender studies, but it was health and sexuality track. What sparked my interest is because I had endometriosis and

I was diagnosed with endometriosis when I was fifteen. So around the age of fifteen, I was very intrigued with the health aspects of women because I... And here I was diagnosed, this was 20 years ago at 15 or 16, diagnosed

with endometriosis, and I was fairly young, typically something that many women who were in their 40s are diagnosed at that time. And I just grew immediate fascination with the

reproductive system at that age. Now, I'd already been involved and interested in, like, politics in undergraduate, but it was my interest in women's studies in undergrad which let me go further in master's. Women's

studies in undergrad is the reason, what sparked my interest attending Bowie state I was at an HBCU. So I learned more about Black women's studies in undergrad and I wanted to learn more in the health side.

So when I got to Towson, I explored holistic health, reproductive health. So I would say that my first introduction to women's studies as an undergraduate,

it was more of, like, a history side. My master's knowledge of women's studies was all health based. So it was it was reproductive health, reproductive justice, health advocacy.

And that stems off of my personal experience with endometriosis and fertility. OK. And if anyone did, who offered you support for your involvement

in women's and gender studies? OK, Doctor Wilkinson, Kate Wilkinson, I remember her. I know she's still there. There was a professor, she has since deceased, but her name was

Karen Dugger. Karen Dugger. Another professor named Celia Barwell Jones. She is no longer, I think, at the college, the university.

And I. C. Daisy was another professor I had. Those four professors during that time, I'm sure if you, like, pull up the roster for the professors then, but those were some influential professors in the

program. I'm forever grateful for the program because I learned more about women's health, which has, which created my career that I have now.

What was the question? I want to make sure that I answer that. Just basically saying who offered you support and... Who offered me support.

So, the professors, definitely, and the Center for Student Diversity offered me support, but the professors challenged my thought process, enhanced my writing skills as well. I really enjoyed, like, the critical eye of women's study

scholarship. So, definitely, I would say Celia Barwell Jones, I'll never forget her, is one of the professors who I will never forget in a good and bad way 'cause she was a really harsh grader and

definitely, definitely always challenged my my critiques of things. And Karen Dugger. And did anyone oppose your decision to go into the field or

discriminate against you for that choice? No. And do you identify as a feminist? And if so, describe your path to claiming that identity. Answer is yes.

I think it has evolved. I would say where I am now, and now at 36, I resonate with a lot of the types of feminism I learned when I was 21.

So Emma, what's her name? Tong, there's a book that we read my first semester. It was A Feminist Thought, and in that book there's about, like, twenty different types of feminisms.

I can say that I now identify with some of them In the book. When I was first introduced to it, I really, I just learned about it, but now I understand them a lot more. But I do identify as a feminist.

I spent a large part of my master's program delineating between feminism and womanism and black feminism. So a lot of my papers and research was on black feminism and womanism.

So of course we know that feminism was relegated to mostly white women, but the concept is more familiar. So we say feminism, but black feminism is where I would say I'm in that space, and womanism, which is a form of

black feminism. So I would make a little bit more confined to black women specifically. Because we have different needs. And how did your association

with the women's and gender studies program in Towson shape your feminist conscience? Sorry. Did you see that? That's alright. And I'm allergic on top of that so this would have been fatal, OK.

Isn't it fall? Why these bees out here? OK, how did my... I would say tremendously, in one word. To be more elaborate,

it provided a framework. It furthered the framework of feminist philosophy that I had just broached upon in undergrad. In undergrad, I learned about black feminist thought, in my

master's I learned about global feminism. I also learned more about reproductive health, which really sparked my interest in reproductive justice. If I could... So the question is how did it enhance my feminist studies or

enhance my feminist position? So, like, your feminist consciousness. OK, so basic.... So the discourse alone,

the discourse, the topics, the classes and the papers, to always challenge and be more [inaudible] in approaching the critical eye. I definitely credit the program. Where I saw things at surface value,

my professors always challenged me to go deeper, go more, do it bigger, and I would definitely say the critical lens to things. As I mentioned, that Tong book where it expanded my idea of feminism a lot further,

that, just learning the different types of feminism alone. I can say for example, where I am currently in my life as a new mom, care focused feminism resonated a lot with me. Over the years

eco-feminism resonated a lot with me. And of course black feminism has. But I would say the knowledge and the discourse of what feminism is and the branches, most definitely. Reproductive health, especially

where I learned a lot. I learned... At that time was the first time I learned about black women's bodies being subject to the reason behind gynecology.

I had never learned that prior. And so what's very interesting is now we see the huge push for black internal health, right? And that's where my career is currently.

But I am so glad to say that I started that research back in 2009, and that was with the books from Dorothy Roberts, Killing the Black Body. That is a foundational book for me and The Black Body and Black

Woman's Body. So I would say the text, the readings, the text, the exposure to black women and genocide from Planned Parenthood, those things, it lay the framework and foundation for me to have a more

critical eye towards women's health. And women's health is feminism, because who else was going to advocate for us besides ourselves, especially in a day and age where abortion rights are being denied.

What feminist thinkers, writers, or activists have been most influential in shaping your thinking about feminism at different points in life? Patricia Hill Collins is #1. Angela Davis.

And they're tied. I'll say Angela Davis is always my number one. However, when it comes to feminism specifically, because Patricia Hill Collins creates a framework, I'm gonna put Patricia Hill, but Angela Davis, Patricia Hill

Collins, bell hooks, Alice Walker, primarily because of womanism. And is it Annmarie Tong? That's who I've been talking about, the feminism book.

My phone died. Tong. I'm gonna Google it. Tong, who writes the entire book on feminist thought. I meant to ask you, are those familiar?

Are you familiar with them? OK. OK. And Tong as well.

Yes. OK. OK. I didn't know if that was still a text that was being used.

Yeah, they still use it. OK. I mean, that means it was good. OK.

So this is what, 2009, 8. So. OK. Did your involvement in the Women's and Gender Studies

program have any effect on your involvement in organizations or activities on campus? It definitely impacted my graduate assistantship. So yes, being a graduate assistant enrolled in the

women's studies program allowed me to be in more diverse spaces and be a thought leader in them as opposed to being in a major that was less humanities. So say, if I was a science, not to put anything on a science

folks and so forth. But being a women's studies scholar and student allowed me to pretty much, I'd say, like, color my input when I'm in the graduate assistant meetings.

And being a women's studies student allowed me to get the graduate assistantship with the Center for Student Diversity because I wouldn't have gotten a GA position in the diverse student side if I wasn't in a degree program that

encouraged inclusion and diversity. So it's definitely responsible for, women's studies is responsible for that. I'm gonna pause and say that my brain is all over the place.

Mommy brain is very real. And I cannot remember a lot of things. So apologies. And what courses in the women's and gender studies program did

you find most interesting and why? I don't remember the names of them. However, the names of the professors I gave you are the ones that I remember, like, the professor specifically.

Now, there was a religious class that I took with Doctor Wilkinson. That's one class. All of my Women's Health classes. Yeah,

I don't know the names of the classes, but I know the material in the books that were assigned. There was a class I did specifically one semester on Cyborg feminism and Cyborg reproductive systems,

and that was pretty much on, like, the medical assistance in pregnancies, like IVF and surrogacy and stuff like that. So that, and, yeah. How did other students and faculty in the women's and

gender studies program inspire you? Faculty challenged me. Yeah, they challenged me. And it was inspiring to engage in these types of discussions

being one of the limited black folks there. I come from my previous degree where it was an all black school, of course. And so we were like-minded.

And so I would say that my master's program, everyone was open minded, but I, being one of the few black women, it was probably two of us in the program at that time, two or three, which is a pro and con because I somehow become, like, a

spokesperson for all black people there. And that was also my first time being in a higher education, being a minority in higher education, like being in that space because my, like, K through 12 was always diverse.

But to be in a graduate program and be one of the few Black women in there was a growth point for me because I was delicate with my subjects that I selected and my research inquiries because it appeared that I was probably the only

person who was interested in learning about and really researching more about Black women. While we all discussed it. I really spent time in Black women.

All of my research projects were all focused on Black women, every semester. So I took the other route and focused on what I was most interested in. Did you have trouble finding a job after after graduation?

If so, what obstacles did you face? No, I did not have a problem. That was the quickest answer, wasn't it? That was just no.

What is some advice that you could give on how to build a career with women and gender study as a major or focus of study? One venue was always professorhood and professorship.

While I did not take that route immediately, that is always the first thing that people go to. Advice on where to take a degree in women's studies is in student affairs, which is where I took it, which was my easy in.

When I say easy, meaning I didn't have an issue getting, you know, getting a position in was in multicultural affairs or a women's center inside of colleges. So my first job out of master's program, I was

coordinator of multicultural affairs, coordinator of student life. And that knowledge and that discourse of being in inclusive space put me right there to be a premier candidate for a

multicultural office or women's center, like director of women's center and stuff. So I would say the student affairs approach was the most, was my route that I took.

So you have professor side, which most folks go into if they're into scholarship, they want to be somebody's professor, which is a very limited scope because it's not that many positions, right?

Student affairs is probably the most doable because there's many universities, but you had to be willing to move. However, that's an approach. Third, depending on your track that you're doing, if you're in the politics side or if you're in

the health side, if you're in the health, you could move, you could go further into public health. If you're in the politics side, then you employ the degree you just earned with pretty much a knowledge consumption.

You may not be working specifically in women's rights, but it does inform how you make decisions in politics. So if you want to join someone's campaign or join, like, a local office type of thing, that can work for you.

Most of my colleagues said that they work in government sectors. So it's like my classmates when we graduated, some of them took the route of government agencies.

I took the route of higher education. I stayed in higher ed and I was, like, a student affairs, and, like, I was a director for some years. Career choices, and I'm saying immediate out of college, like,

just out of that versus, like, a seasoned career where you can... I would say another career choice could be a doula, birth and postpartum or abortion doula. One of those things, which I am. I'm a doula. And

prenatal and, well, I could say maternal health care is a direction to take. Oh yeah. Mm hmm.

There's lots of opportunities. I wish, you know, I mean, I don't regret anything. I don't know if everyone knows that, but I'm that type of person where I'm always looking and searching.

And which is why last year or two years ago, I created that internship for students from the program to work at my company who are out of this degree, who are out of, who are minoring in women's studies, because I knew that they could be easily, they

could be probably be better directed. So two years ago I started an internship program with the department. And, so, I own a health and wellness company and one of the

undergrad students was applying for medical school and she was a biology major, minor in women studies. She interned with me at a semester at my health center and she got accepted into med school.

So I've been able to create opportunities for students who are in those types of degrees or folks that, you know, can get a job. I like to create positions and opportunities for them to be

able to get a job or to or be able to get into postgrad degrees. So I'm a person where I create my own stuff. I don't wait for people, so I create jobs for myself.

So there's always opportunity. That's how I look at it. And the glass is half full because you created it yourself.

Ain't nobody's gonna do it for you. You gotta do it. And what do you think could be done to attract more students to the Women's and Gender Study Program?

Bee. I'm.... I'm watching the bee. Oh, God.

OK. I'm out here because my baby's on the inside and you either going to hear the dog or the bee or the baby. So which one we got? OK.

So I think what we're doing right now, it's a lot of things. This right here is a good way to hear more about what the alumni are doing. I think notable alumni is a good way to bring learning to the

program. Career tracks I believe is a great way. So even highlighting folks in different careers and letting them speak on what they do. I believe, which will be quite

interesting, is taking a world issue, say, for example, what's happening right now with Israel and Palestine got, you know, all of that, right? Maybe saying a response of what women's studies would look at,

like, how would a women's, how could a women's studies student critique the situation, right? So you're showing what happens when you have a more critical thought view.

So, say, for example, right now, if you're a women's studies student, you're looking at it as what's happening to the mothers and children, right? Like, what is happening?

This is the only view that I can occupy because I'm looking at the babies. I'm looking at them, you know, where they're birthing, I'm looking at,

they don't have, you know, feminine, you know, feminine healthcare products, things like that. I think if you were to take current day issues and trouble it and say what would a women's studies student do?

You'd be able to see the benefit of the degree. OK. And what do you see as the relevance of women's and gender studies in today's world?

Exactly that. What I... So, current events. Currently, of course, we have war, right? But more on a more... Less fatal... Well, no, because it is fatal.

Maternal health is fatal as well. So it... So, everything is serious. Everything is serious. Women's bodies are at stake.

Women's, women identifying folks. We're talking about trans folks. We're talking about black women dying during childbirth, babies, you know, neonatal mortality.

Right now there's a, epidemic Black women's maternal mortality rate. And that is what can be applied right now. So, yeah. If you could basically do, like, school over, like, your

undergrad, your masters, would you do it over again? Do it over, like, a different way or do it over like... Just, like, would you just do it all again? Yeah, it was cool.

I have, I have... No, I mean, I have no complaints. I have...

No, I have no complaints. Yeah. About education. Nope.

Everything was cool. Everything was cool because what I did got me ready for the next thing. My master's program, my paper and my master's program allowed

me to... That was my sample paper I did to get into my PhD, so clearly it was good enough. So my master's work I did at Towson enabled me to be a

graduate - a PHD student at UMBC. And my work at Towson allowed me to have a career in higher education and where I am currently as a business owner of a health center that services nearly 10,000 patients.

So I'm good. OK, for my last question, what schools of feminist thought have you found most useful and navigating various aspects of your life?

So, like, for work, personal relationships, like, anything like that. Black feminist thought is number one, will always be. Ok. Well, that was all my questions. Ok. Thank you for doing this with me.

I know you busy. Where is this going next? What's the next steps? So then we're going to upload it to, it's something a part of the

library. So we're just going to upload the interviews and everything like that, 'cause everybody... So me chasing a bee is going to be on live TV?

Yeah, so show this part too, OK? Be like, disclaimer, she was outside, it was bees chasing her and her dog was barking. OK, edit it.

They better edit the video. OK? Oh man. OK.