Interview with Tabatha A. Uhrich

Karen Blair: Dr. Uhrich, thanks for sharing with us your career in education. You are helping us enrich our understanding of teacher education across time and that is a very important piece, particularly because you come from physical education and we need to have that program represented. I think a good place to begin is in the beginning, so would you tell us a little bit about your early social context: where you grew up, what you were thinking about while you were going through school about a possible career or college or whatever? Tabatha Uhrich: Okay. Well, that’s a great place to start. I’m kind of the accidental teacher. I think in retrospect it’s always been meant to be. For as long as I can remember, I knew that I would need to have a career. I come from a blue collar background, so work is expected. I knew I would be going to college, so that was never a question. What did become the question is where, and that unfolded as I was having my fifteen minutes of small town fame as a field hockey player. K.B.: Ah! T.U.: So my parents were gracious, in retrospect, because they allowed me to pick my college for the field hockey team and coaching and what not. So I wanted to go somewhere else. I was from a very rural community near the Amish country and Hershey, Pennsylvania, and so I wanted to experience something different. Virginia Commonwealth in Richmond, Virginia met that goal, as well as the type of program where I wanted to play. I felt like I could make a difference there. So, at that time, I thought I might major in nutrition. K.B.: Mmm . . . T.U.: And all the schools that I visited on my official NCAA [National Collegiate Athletic Association] visits had that major, except for the school I chose, where I went to play field hockey! So I didn’t want to go to college without a major and without some focus, so I picked the backup plan, physical education. And jumped right in. I was a member of the majors club and secretary by November of freshman year. The irony that I always think about is well, NCAA makes you pick a major and field hockey isn’t one. So, physical education was a good fit. And I felt that that was a job that I could perform and I could find happiness and I knew, from growing up, that you could support yourself with that. So that was just an easy decision, but I wasn’t sure that’s what I wanted to do. K.B.: Right. T.U.: So I changed my major at least two times, and I always came back to physical education. K.B.: Can you tell us a little bit about that program? Do you remember? And really I’m just thinking this in contrast or comparison to what you now do in your position. T.U.: Right. Well, fortunately what I didn’t know at the time is that Virginia had a dual licensure where the certification to teach K-12 physical education required also health. K.B.: Oh! T.U.: So interestingly, Pennsylvania also does the same, unlike Maryland where you can get a degree and a license for K-12 physical education absent of health. So that was fortuitous. I could not have predicted that I would need that, but that worked out well for me. So the program was Health and Physical Education K-12. As having taught the history of and philosophy of physical education here at Towson, in recollection, it was very much like all the programs were back then: a lot of half-credit activity classes where you performed the sport, the skills for the sport, the strategy if it was a sport, and then you practiced teaching it, and usually among your peers. And the program seemingly had a good reputation when I went to the state association, the state convention every year. But I was less concerned about that because I was in good company. It was not a program that was . . . we worried if we would have professors next year, if it was going to stay or not. I say that because last year the program closed. K.B.: Oh. T.U.: So that’s unfortunate, you hate to see your program where you graduated from close down, but I have no idea what the reason for that is. K.B.: Did you have an opportunity to go into schools regularly, not just for - I assume you did some kind of student teaching-like experience, but in addition to that or before that? T.U.: Yes. We had required internship hours . . . K.B.: Ah. T.U.: . . . at an elementary school that was assigned to us. I don’t remember filling out a form or anything like our students do now, but we were assigned a school. You went to that school, you were expected to observe, help, mimic at some point, and then to teach a lesson. I don’t recall having to write my own lesson plan, let alone do it again and again like some of our students do now, but that probably would have been a good thing back then. K.B.: Mmm. T.U.: Then we repeated that at the secondary level. I was assigned to a high school. It was a program that very much looked like the one I had come from, so that was comfortable. The elementary program . . . in fact, I remember two internships for the elementary experience and I don’t know if that’s because together they equaled the hours for the high school. I don’t recall that. The only thing that was interesting is that we did not have an internship for the health education part of our degree until we student taught, and then if your mentor teacher was assigned health, you taught health. Otherwise you could leave that program without having ever experienced K-12 health in the classroom, which probably wasn’t a good thing. But I did have that experience when I went to student teach. The student teaching experience was just like it is here for the physical education major. We had eight weeks in an elementary school and then eight weeks in a secondary school. And I remember that much, much better and the detail is much richer in my mind than from the smaller internships. K.B.: Sure. T.U.: But, I cannot imagine what it could possibly be like to go into a classroom and teach having never had that schema in your head for what it looks like--what it should look like, and having that day-to-day direction about what we do and what we don’t do. You know? K.B.: Yes. T.U.: We have a lot of knowledge, just all of us, whether we’re teachers or not, from those 12-13 years of sitting and watching as a student, but it’s just so different from the other side of the desk! K.B.: Indeed it is! T.U.: Yes. K.B.: And that’s hard to describe, much less get somebody to understand. So we move into student teaching. Tell us about that experience. T.U.: Well, I was assigned a high school to a mentor teacher who taught driver ed. all day. K.B.: Interesting. T.U.: Yes. And that was not revealed or found out until about August before I started that fall. K.B.: Oh no. T.U.: So I got assigned to Jim Vega at Swift Creek Middle School. I felt a little bad for Jim because, at that time, all of the male phys. ed. teachers had their office in the locker room--the boys locker room, not the girls. They gave me a desk in the girls’ locker room, but I really needed to be with Jim, kind of reflecting on . . . So they put butcher paper up on the walls, the glass windows of the office. So that was a problem for them to be able to observe and keep an eye on the kids, but Swift Creek Middle School has great students so that was never a problem. And then . . . K.B.: So how long, I mean, did you teach drivers ed.? T.U.: No, no. They moved me. K.B.: Oh, okay. T.U.: So I was assigned to a woman at a high school; I don’t know what high school. But then, because I never even pursued the driver ed. certificate, which was an add-on, kind of like athletic training was at that time . . . K.B.: Huh. T.U.: Everybody majored in phys. ed. The department was physical education. Health was in there. There was some driver ed. There was always athletic training as an add-on certificate. Now they’re all majors by themselves, except for driver ed. I don’t know how that fits in any longer. But anyway, yeah, I was there. Jim taught most; I don’t remember how his schedule was. I know I was in a trailer teaching health. I remember it was eighth graders. I remember finding that unique because, when I did frame myself as a teacher, it was always in the physical education environment. So what’s interesting is that’s the flip of what every other teacher would say, because most teachers are in a classroom where everybody is sitting and doing, you know, sedentary work. K.B.: Right. T.U.: So that was interesting. I was there eight weeks. I taught field hockey for a unit--that was wonderful for me, because it was comfortable. I don’t really remember what else I taught. I remember being nervous having to do the warm up, the group warm up of all of the classes before they separated with their teacher. It was the high time for aerobics. It was the 1980s. And I have no rhythm. Dancing is difficult for me. I was very nervous about that. But the more significant experience for me was the next eight weeks, where I went to Swift Creek Elementary School, which was right down the road. And some of the students who I taught at the middle school had little brothers and sisters at the elementary school. Another wonderful situation. I was flattered to work with Marsha Little. She was my mentor teacher. And flattered, and yet very challenged, and that is because Martha--excuse me--Marsha Little, had done her graduate work for her masters with Kate Barrett at University of North Carolina Greensboro, and Kate Barrett had brought and is known for bringing this movement education approach to the United States. And that curricular model, which is what it is now, was not taught at VCU [Virginia Commonwealth University]. So she was aware that I did not have that background, and the background I had had in preparation was very, very disjointed in terms of what the expectations are from any kind of . . . for many of the learning domains. So it was structured. She provided as much education as she could, but it was brand new and I had no schema in my head for what this physical education should look like. And it didn’t even always sound right because she expected the students to, at times, be quiet, because they were to be cognitively engaged in practicing this psycho-motor skill. And my point of reference was games, play, enjoyment, fun. So that was challenging. But she was a good mentor and really, I’m so gracious for that experience because without it, I’m not sure I would be able to do what I do now as effectively. K.B.: Mmm. T.U.: Because I probably would not ever have moved into that type of teaching and that is the direction we’re going in terms of skillful competence, rather than game play. K.B.: Isn’t that interesting. T.U.: Yes. So I was really lucky. K.B.: Yeah! So you were ahead of the game, actually. T.U.: Yes. Yes. So I did something really odd and strange and perhaps stupid. The principal called me from Swift Creek Middle, as I was completing my elementary last few weeks, and offered me a job and I said no. K.B.: Oooh . . . T.U.: I was going to graduate school because in the course of me figuring out what I wanted to do, I always turned away from teaching and I wanted to study exercise physiology. K.B.: I see. T.U.: So I had taken my GREs [Graduate Record Exam] that summer, applied to Florida State. My parents had moved to Florida from Pennsylvania a few years before. My father had played football at Florida State, so that was kind of one thing I had always wanted to do, is go there. So I enrolled in January and loved the information, loved the coursework, the theoretical part, but the lab work--I’m collecting air in these big canvas Douglas bags that had holes in them that were duct taped--was a really unnerving experience and I realized I’m stuck in this lab and it’s beautiful outside. This isn’t going to be a good fit. So a friend called from back home in Pennsylvania and said, “Hey, we’re building another elementary school in the school district where I actually went myself. Are you interested?” They needed a phys. ed. teacher. And I said, “Yes.” So I applied for that job and I got it. So, I packed up the car, said goodbye to the few people I had met while I was at Florida State, and became an elementary physical education teacher. K.B.: In Pennsylvania. T.U.: In Pennsylvania, yes. And that was an amazing experience. I had a great deal to learn. I had a great deal of maturing to do. But it afforded me a lot of opportunities. I was surrounded by good quality people who were either still teaching or recently retired who were in the course of, as I was, learning how to do this, this teaching thing. And I also had the opportunity to coach, and share my enthusiasm for sport in that way. So yeah . . . so I thought I’d stay there two or three years and get my master’s and maybe go on. I kind of at some point decided maybe being a professor and teaching at this level might be a good fit for me. So I didn’t leave. I stayed for 11 years. K.B.: Yeah. And what kinds of things did you do? T.U.: As teacher? K.B.: Yes. T.U.: I tried to do everything. I tried to do everything! K.B.: And what does everything include? T.U.: Well, the first year, in terms of field hockey, the varsity field hockey coach, who was my high school coach, and I, we started a Falcon Youth Field Hockey program. It was for girls in grades three, four, five and six. We felt that if these girls had this unique experience to play high school field hockey, they should maybe have a little bit more than that unit in middle school in seventh or eighth grade prior to trying out for the team. So we started that, and that is, according to what I’ve heard, still going. So that’s neat. In addition, a unique opportunity that really gave me a lot of different insight to the learning experience for the students was this. We had a cohort of children who were getting . . . they were going into first grade, but by first grade they were not on grade level for reading. And then, of course, that affected second grade and third grade and on up. And what the teachers . . . I don’t know if they had read the research or if they had just noticed this trend . . . but those students year after year were the students who didn’t know their middle name, their address, their phone number, maybe what their parents did for a living, those kinds of basic things. And, then, that went along with they didn’t know letter recognition; they didn’t know what the sound of a letter made, let along be able to put all of that together. So, I don’t know who decided this, but it was decided that a learning support teacher who worked out of the guidance office, would have been a special ed. teacher at that time, the speech teacher-- were going to do some intensive work over the lunch hour for this cohort as soon as first grade started in the next academic year. And they were going to be the kids who didn’t know the information I had just mentioned. They wanted me. I was going to be the fourth person. I think they really just knew that these kids also happened to be the itchy movers, the movers and shakers. And so if I could just kind of provide an outlet so that they sit when they’re trying to do some speech and letter recognition and whatnot. So, I said, “Yes.” And the cohort was created. The hour, in addition to the rest of the academic day for these children, was planned. And children were put into smaller groups. So they rotated from one person to another, 15 or 20 minutes. I don’t know how many days a week this was, but it was at least twice a week, perhaps more. So knowing how kindergarten, first grade students are, I knew that I was going to need more than one activity, you know . . . K.B.: Certainly. T.U.: . . . these weren’t older children, you know, 15 minutes, one game, that would be fine. So I had had a few games that involved some interdisciplinary with reading literacy, and I went through all of them within about the first 10 minutes of the first day we did this. And I thought wow, okay. I’m going to need some more activities! And we know that we can repeat them, we can change the name and the kids don’t realize that, so that was doable. So I modified some of the other activities that I did with children for the psychomotor skill purpose. I modified them to address literacy as best I could. And then at some point it became evident that I still didn’t know what I was doing. While I was, perhaps, giving the kids an outlet for their itchy need to move, and that was helpful, I didn’t feel like I had any knowledge if I was helping them to become more literate. K.B.: Uh huh. Right. T.U.: And so I started spending more and more time talking to some of my colleagues about how it is we learn to read. Because, in general, I don’t need to know that information. K.B.: Right. T.U.: And even though there was a reading in the content area course required of every major at that time, and now its six credits, not just three, it did not go to the level of detail for my needs. So I learned how it is that we need to recognize letters, know more importantly the sound they make, the ability to blend them, simple sentences are easy to comprehend because of how long it takes to get to the end. And then it became apparent, “Wow, this is really hard!” And it’s really hard because what this little boy knows is different from what this little girl knows, and this is just five of them! What if I was a first grade teacher and I had 20, 25? So I really tried to embrace the importance because, while I feel that physical education is important and that if our bodies are not healthy, we really can’t do what we love or what we need to do, but we can’t do a whole lot of things either if we can’t read. So that gave me a venue for learning in a different kind of way. Well, I don’t know what I was going to say, but I still . . . but yeah. So that was part of what I did. An extension from that was a decision to continue over the summer months for some of these same children. K.B.: Ah. T.U.: So I was invited to be a part of that again. It was more of a day camp like experience at the school. So I was doing a lot more gross motor activities outside in addition to whatever I could get the children to do in terms of literacy. So that was a unique experience. A different cohort of colleagues at the same school recognized that some of our children were coming from other places with English as a second language. Their parents . . . if they liked school, if they had good quality experiences, were unable to really communicate about the needs of their student because they didn’t speak English. So they were very much marginalized in our schools. So we decided that maybe what we could do is create a camp over the summer for these kids. It would give them a safe place to go, and it would provide unique, fun experiences so that these children had a good belief about school and a comfort there. So the camp was only open to certain children for that purpose. And that was really, really a tough thing to do. There weren’t a lot of colleagues other than the ones who believed in this and helped start this; there weren’t a lot of folks who really wanted to invest in that. K.B.: Ah. T.U.: That was very challenging. But the local college had just started a new major, I think it was dual Special Education/Elementary Ed. And they needed an internship for these students to get them through in four years. So we had some of the local college kids helping us out. K.B.: Very nice! That worked out well. T.U.: That did work out well, yeah. But it was very draining. So that was a, unfortunately, one summer and done. K.B.: Mmm. Did you ever get any feedback, going back to when you started this interest in literacy and people came to you with the first grade level students and I think you said there were five--did you ever get feedback on whether their reading skills had improved? I mean, anything? T.U.: I don’t recall that. K.B.: I mean, this could be teacher observation. It didn’t have to be some kind of standardized assessment or anything. T.U.: Right. I don’t recall that and I don’t know if that’s because that information was provided to me and I just said, “Okay, that’s great” and moved on, or if I didn’t have the thought process to ask. I really don’t know. That’s a great question. K.B.: So you’ve now sort of meandered into . . . found yourself doing literacy and English as a second language. So this sort of Physical Ed. focus has really broadened itself. T.U.: It has. It has really broadened itself. And at some point I realized I had this whole package of games and you know, at some point when you’re teaching the lesson plans are written, but what is created and modified and improved isn’t always written down. It’s in your head. K.B.: Right. T.U.: And I thought, “Wow, I have all these things in my head.” And I had to make them, because there wasn’t anything out there for it. So a colleague and I got together. We wrote a book. I thought, “If I’m ever going to write a book . . .” It wasn’t on the bucket list, but if I’m ever going to do that . . . K.B.: Now this was still when you were in Hershey? T.U.: Uh, yes. K.B.: Wow. T.U.: Near Hershey, yes. I was in Cornwall Lebanon School District. So yeah, so we did that, and . . . K.B.: So what did the book, what was the book about? T.U.: The book is Simon Says Reading is Fun, and its movement based activities to increase reading skills. So it gave a little bit of background about, bare bones, what is needed for a physical educator approaching how to learn how to read in a movement-based activity environment. And then most of the book is the games and explaining them. It’s a little rough around the edges, but it’s done. I’ll have it for the rest of my life. K.B.: So you’re having a good time. Do you do this for almost a decade, more than a decade? T.U.: I had good friends, good company. Yes, I did. K.B.: But you . . . T.U.: And while - while I was there and felt like I was making a difference, an overarching, nagging issue for me was, “What is the purpose of what I’m hired to do, which is physical education?” And that’s interesting because at first glance, it is so obvious. And yet, I felt that the expectations were a kitchen sink approach. And the NASPE [National Association for Sport and Physical Education] standards hadn’t even come out yet. When they did come out or were available at that time, before the internet, and ease of availability, they were the kitchen sink. And they still are. When I say the kitchen sink, they address the psychomotor domain, the cognitive domain, the affective domain, and then fitness, which sometimes is the fourth expectation, while not a learning domain, and sometimes it just falls under the psychomotor learning domain. But I felt that, at times, my students needed focus in the affective domain, whether it’s about sportsmanship or simple civility. Sportsmanship is really just civility in a sport environment. And I thought, “Wow, well, if I focus on that, what am I neglecting and at what expense?” And the next piece is, are we all doing that, and should we? I mean, is a librarian doing this? Is the music teacher doing this? Is the fourth grade teacher doing this? K.B.: These are good questions. Yup. T.U.: And it became apparent to me that somebody needed to, because what might have been happening in the home, in another generation, or in church or in the community somehow, this was a need. But at the same time, I was not sure if I should be providing this fun environment so that the children loved the activities so much they want to do it for the rest of their life. And yes, that’s definite - definitely a piece of that, because hopefully they will be lifelong movers for a healthful outcome, but enjoyment is what drives that. And so I guess I thought that the answer was out there, and I just missed it as an undergrad. And having gotten my Master’s in Health Education, there was no opportunity to get that. So curiosity and wonder is a strength of mine, so I felt that the answer must be there. You don’t want to reveal you don’t know something. So I just figured if I took the course work, I’d have the “ah-ha” moment personally to myself, and that would provide focus and clarity about what is the purpose of, and it did not happen. And, in reflection, it wasn’t there to be made. It’s here now. It is here now and it’s about competence and confidence and competence and skillfulness because if you don’t have just good enough skill, you’re not going to be confident, so you’re not going to play golf or soccer or bowl or do these things. And generally, we do things that we’re, at least, just good enough, or that we’re good at. So it’s become really apparent that the competence and skill must be the focus of physical education. So that’s exciting because while I don’t have K-5 students that I can directly impact, I have much more than that because if every student of mine in my methods class, in my elementary methods class for physical education that I teach now, if every one of those 20 students goes out and has 500 students at their elementary school, it’s multiplied. K.B.: Right. T.U.: Changing their schema from what they’ve had to do something different, like I had to do with my mentor, Marsha Little, is the challenge. Because what they experienced was not what is needed. K.B.: So Tab, is that what, sort of, made you decide to pursue an advanced degree and come into higher ed.? Was this wanting to reach a larger number of people who then could do what you were beginning to believe was necessary? T.U.: I’d like to say that. I’d like to say that because it sounds really good and altruistic, but no. I had had the thought of maybe being a professor back when I was leaving college and doing the exercise physiology moment in time. K.B.: Uh huh. Right. T.U.: I was also a little itchy to do something different. K.B.: Sure. T.U.: And “different” often for a teacher is satisfied by going into administration or perhaps a different content area. And I didn’t have that interest at all. So this was financially different because if I had gone into administration, I could have continued adding to my retirement kitty. I had to freeze that, leave, and, in essence, start over. But I’m still in this movement-based discipline, and that’s a world that apparently I’m going to just continue to prosper in, because I keep finding myself back here. It’s meant to be. Yes. So no, I didn’t do it so I could reach more people, but it has become apparent that I get to do that, as a result of finding that personal answer to, “What is really the purpose here?” K.B.: And so what doctoral program did you pursue? T.U.: Well, not knowing if I was smart enough or had the ability to do it, I wanted to find a program where I could keep my day job. I had a great school. I had a great group of folks to work with, so I drove two hours to Temple University where they had a doctoral program in physical education. And that’s what I did. So I was doing course work fall/spring/summer while teaching. I was still coaching part time at the local college. I thought, “You know, I’m due for a sabbatical. I’ve never had one.” So I took a year sabbatical to finish the course work, and I figured I would come back then and hopefully use my students or a colleague’s students for whatever research I would end up doing for my dissertation. So when I was at Temple in my year sabbatical, I had heard that the interviews were rather demanding for higher education, that it could be a day, it could be two days. I thought, “Wow, I’ve only really had one professional interview, and I got that job, so I probably should have some practice.” So I saw the job at Towson, and thought, “Well, it says ABD, I’m not there yet, but I’ll just put my materials in.” And they were interested and so I had the opportunity to have the experience of this interview and then I got the job and I thought, “This is it! This is my chance!” I don’t know if this will happen again. So I took the job and I never went back to my elementary school. Yeah. So I’ve been really lucky. And I wanted to be in a more metropolitan area, so this has been a good fit . . . a very good fit. K.B.: So when you were offered the position and you took it, what kinds of responsibilities did you have when you first came? T.U.: Well, I taught the elementary and early childhood majors; at that time, they still had to take a credit or two or three of physical education. So I taught them. I taught the Introduction to Physical Education course for the Phys. Ed. majors. How we do it here at Towson is . . . here’s the bigger picture within this movement-based discipline, and then within, against, and up against, athletics, coaching, the sport world and wellness. And then the Field Court II class, which is comprised of Ultimate Frisbee, floor hockey, field hockey and lacrosse. So that was a great fit and I had taught that in a field hockey lesson when I was here for my interview in the Field Court II class, so that was a great fit. And the program had just adopted the tactical approach to teaching sport, which is just so simple and yet, so beautiful. I really think it’s the way to teach of all of the curricular models that you could adopt because what we, as athletes and enthusiasts, know is some of the very basic things tactically that you do in soccer, you can use them in basketball, flag football, rugby, field hockey--all the other invasion games. And if we could tell our students that secret, we’d have so many more people knowledgeable about--Oh! Oh! The only thing that really changes is the three or four skills that are needed! So if you can give the competence and skills, teach about that little secret of once you know how to mark, you can always mark or defend, we might have more people who are enjoying, feeling competent, and wanting to be physically active, rather than joining the fitness center, run on a treadmill, in three or four months burn out, and then languish in taking care of themselves. K.B.: Right. T.U.: Yeah, so, that’s what I did. The charge for me personally, professionally was to finish my dissertation. K.B.: Absolutely. T.U.: Yes. And that was quite challenging, because what has become apparent to me that I can say now is, “I am a teacher.” That is what I do. And it is really hard to cut your students off because it’s time to go so I can go upstairs and work on the research for the dissertation. They’re here because this is an institution to learn, and that’s what they expect us to be able to do is to be there for them. Our students, our… What’s the word I want? Consumer--doesn’t understand or care about all the other expectations. They’re paying for our expertise, so it’s hard to say no to that. K.B.: It is. T.U.: It really is. And some students really are curious, and you want to be there for those kids. Not the kids who are too unmotivated to pursue finding out answers for themselves. K.B.: So that was difficult to . . . T.U.: That was challenging. K.B.: . . . to be able to . . . to be that kind of teacher, which clearly you want to be . . . T.U.: Yes. Right. K.B.: . . . and at the same time take care of this other business that probably was important for you to remain a teacher. T.U.: Right, exactly. K.B.: And be who you wanted to be as a teacher. T.U.: And having had that 11 years experience, I thought, you know, if I do a really good job planning and teaching these courses, with the kind of knowledge I was going to be doing it again in the spring, I will have less work to do in the spring. I mean, we have the three year--everybody knows--well, teachers know you plan the first time, and then you have to tweak it the second time, and there’s a little more tweaking the third time. So everything takes three times, even if it’s just a rubric for one assignment in a class, it takes three times. But the workload would be less if I spent a lot of time invested in doing a quality job the first time, rather than a shoddy job to get through it and then fixing, fixing, fixing. And I wanted to have a good reputation. I mean, that was just something important to me. K.B.: Of course. T.U.: So yes, it was challenging. Very much so. K.B.: Now, were you doing something with your dissertation work that you think has informed your practice as a teacher? T.U.: Good question. Probably not so much. In part, I’m like most, many of us. I needed to finish and be done. My advisor, while wonderful, my dissertation advisor, wonderful guy, wasn’t doing a lot of research of his own. K.B.: Ah. T.U.: That was a hole, a weakness. K.B.: Yes. T.U.: But at least I didn’t have to do something because I chose Temple out of convenience, something I didn’t agree with or believe in. So I was sitting at national convention, and he said, “You know, that cup stacking, which is now known as sport stacking, is really, is neat.” He thought that was cool, and I did not. So I found a way to--he kept bringing it up and bringing it up. I said, “Okay, well, it’s apparent this is what I’m going to be studying.” So I thought, “I have to find meaning in this.” K.B.: Yes. T.U.: And I was not into motor development and motor learning, so that piece was not an option for me to study. So the brain-based research, that is what we call it now, was kind of a revisit of some of the work that was done in the 60’s in terms of cross brain development, crawling, those kinds of things. And a lot of that research that shows up in the physical education genre was debunked. And I thought, “Wow. Why are we bringing this back?” K.B.: Yeah. T.U.: So do we know more now? So because cup stacking requires both hands, which requires crossing with corpus callosum, I thought, “Okay, I wonder if there’s any carryover to something.” So I studied reading comprehension in second grade students and fifth grade students. And I had a control group. They did not get cup stacking, and the research group did. K.B.: And? T.U.: So interestingly, there was no significance with the second grade students, but there was with the fifth grade students. K.B.: Huh. T.U.: However, I have to say that the group that had cup stacking had a teacher who was in his 31st year and the control group had a teacher who was brand new; it was her first year. K.B.: Ah. T.U.: So we have no idea if it had anything to do with cup stacking at all. But I did finish that part of my life, and I was able to move into a new level of comfort with that behind me. K.B.: Yeah. T.U.: And that’s very, very important to be able to be effective. K.B.: Yes, absolutely. T.U.: Right. I really enjoy my work here. I feel that this institution . . . Well, when I got the job, all of a sudden everybody heard of Towson. I knew of Towson. The last time I had been here was my sophomore year to play field hockey, and I just remember it was such an awful experience. We were playing so poorly the first half, my coach made us do sprints on the field at half time. That was my knowledge of Towson. At that time, Towson State. So. Everyone had heard of Towson University that I knew and a lot knew that this program has an excellent reputation for physical education, and I thought, “Wow, what a bonus for me. I’m just grateful to have a job.” So got here, found that the program is big, has a variety of folks - good quality folks who are leaving our program and doing a super job, and I can say that first hand because every couple of semesters I request an opportunity or part of my work load to supervise student teachers. I feel like that’s a very important thing to be cognizant about, what I’m doing in my classroom at the phase two level, the methods. Because if I’m seeing a disconnect with one student, it’s, “Hmm, is that the student or is it me?” So I think that’s really, really valuable. So I’m seeing effective teachers and I’m working with our graduates as mentors who are doing a phenomenal job. I’m really at a spot, because I’ve been here enough, long enough to see that turnover and feel proud of it. K.B.: Uh huh, yes. T.U.: So yes, I’m really excited about that. K.B.: Well, I don’t think there’s anything better or more rewarding than to see the students that you taught doing a wonderful job at what you’ve prepared them to do. T.U.: Yeah. K.B.: I mean, yeah! That’s gratification. T.U.: It is. And you know, some of the things that are unsettling for all of us is this sea change toward assessment. Unsettling in part because the expectations have been increased in terms of the commitment to collecting data, not just grading a paper, but recording it. And then not recording the grade, but recording how they did on each portion of the assignment, so you can track--well, okay, there’s a unit plan, so it’s a good quality one, but the assessment’s really weak. So they need help with assessment, even though they got a good grade on it. So all of that taken into consideration really nickel and dimes time. But what I am especially tickled by is that our graduates are doing the things that can’t be assessed, nobody cares to assess, if we could, that make a difference. They’re building relationships with students and making connections and keeping an eye on them in terms of letting them know that they care about them, even if they aren’t excellent in this content area of physical education. And I think some of those things really make a difference in terms of K-12 students graduating to be happy, productive people in society. K.B.: And physically active people. T.U.: And physically active, yes. That’s a bonus on top of it all. K.B.: Where are you going now? I mean, do you have any professional goals that you haven’t met at Towson that you would like to be involved in? T.U.: Funny you should ask. I was at my elementary school for 11 years. I am in my 11th year now. And I, about a year ago, started thinking, “Hmm. Am I gonna . . . is this what I’m going to do for the rest of my life?” And not because I’m dissatisfied, but just because I get itchy and kind of wonder, “Okay, what else, what else, what else?” And I spent some time thinking about what else I might do. And pretty much focused in academia. I wasn’t thinking about leaving education. And I kind of collected my thoughts about what I do. I had a little bit of change of focus in attitude about the impact I can make. Especially with the things that can’t be measured, don’t show up on my work load or my annual report about graduating happy, competent, effective, novice teachers. And that is what brings me joy, and it’s paying the bills. So I have no thoughts about doing anything other than hopefully making full professor someday. Associate now. So. K.B.: Yes. T.U.: I don’t really see myself going somewhere else to do this work. I think Towson really has the opportunity to grasp what has been mentioned about this institution as the state school for teacher education, teacher preparation. I think that there’s a truth in that. And not only because of the history being a state normal school, but because of the influence we have around the state with our graduates. I also think that state schools--I kind of feel bad for them, because there’s the trend of wanting to be this Research I institution and being this everything institution and we’re only ever going to be second in that, because we aren’t that. K.B.: Right. T.U.: So I think adopting this approach toward being the best teacher preparation institute is a great fit. And it is the historical underpinning of what we do, so. It’s exciting. And I’ve had wonderful experiences in the College of Education. I feel very, very comfortable when I come across campus to the College of Education. There is a warmth and an acceptance and upstanding expectations and follow through on all things that matter, so that’s wonderful. K.B.: Yes. Very nice. Is there anything that we’ve forgotten that you want to mention about your career or teacher education at Towson? I think you’ve given us a lot of good information and insight into things. T.U.: Thanks. Thank you. K.B.: We always . . . you were going to say? T.U.: No . . . K.B.: And I don’t want this to end before . . . our final question is always: what kind of wisdom would you share? You’ve had a decade in public education and K-12 level and a decade in higher ed. What would you say to someone who’s considering a career in teaching? T.U.: Make sure you like children. It seems so obvious, but I guess from the perspective I have in physical education is this: most students, when I was an undergrad and now, choose physical education because they love sport. K.B.: Ah ha. T.U.: And/or want to coach and this is a good fit. That’s still happening. And secondary to that is, “Oh yeah, I’m going to work with kids all day. Okay.” But, because the content is movement and activity, there’s a belief that it’s a good fit . . . until you really think about the fact that you have a typical class schedule, 45 minutes, kids are coming in the door and out the door, and you might have five minutes between classes, you might even have ten minutes to go to the bathroom or talk to a colleague, but you are working with children or teenagers all day long, and if you don’t like them or at least one of those levels, it’s not a good fit at all. I’ve worked with some teachers who appear not to like kids. And they know it. They can’t express it or communicate it when they’re in; say; third grade, but they know it. And it affects everything, it affects them. That seems obvious, but in physical education, I wonder if that’s true in, say art or music, too, if you love art, you love music, and you forget about you’re spending this time with the kids so that’s all I have. That’s all I have. K.B.: Thank you. T.U.: Thank you for your time. I appreciate this. This is a wonderful undertaking. K.B.: Oh, this . . . yeah. This is wonderful. And how nice that we have a representative from physical education. T.U.: Thanks for having me, and us, our content area. We appreciate it. K.B.: Absolutely.