Interview with Marie Heath

Karen Blair: Ms. Heath, thank you for sharing with us your story about your own preparation to become a teacher and your life as an educator. This will add greatly to our understanding of the evolution of teacher education at Towson University across time. I think a good place to begin is at the beginning. So, would you share with us some of your early social context: where you grew up, what you particularly liked in school, what kind of thoughts you had about what you'd do after high school? Marie Heath: Well, I grew up in this area. My parents went to Towson University--both in the College of Education. And they were both in Baltimore County Public Schools. My dad was an administrator; my mom was a teacher. And I went to Baltimore County Schools growing up. And so Towson was always on our radar because they were alums of the school. And we lived in the area. And so, I always in school loved history. I loved it at home and I loved it in school. My dad was a history teacher before he was an administrator. We would, you know, have conversations at dinner where I would say, “Could you tell us again how World War I started, how all those alliances fell out?” And he would go into his library and bring out a book and we would sit there and that would be--I loved history from a young age. And I also always loved performing. K.B.: Oh! M.H.: So in a perfect world I would have a voice that I could sing. And I would - I always wanted to be a singer, but that's not actually a reality for my actual natural talents! So! And I also always liked--I'm the oldest sister--and I always liked being a helper too. And my parents always said, “You know, Marie, I think you should look into teaching.” And I said, “I don't, I don't want to do that. That's what you guys do, you know? I'm not interested in becoming a teacher.” And my mom said, “You know, you have a lot of the qualities of someone who would make a good educator.” And I felt like that was not ever something that was ever on my radar because that was what my parents did. And I certainly . . . you know. What child wants to do what their parents do when they're a teenager? So, as I was growing up, I wasn't quite sure what I was going to do. But it made sense when I went to college that I studied history, just because I loved it so much. So that was the reason I did it, because I loved it. K.B.: And you came to Towson. M.H.: I did. K.B.: But not really at that point for teacher prep. M.H.: Right. I came to Towson because I had a full scholarship here. And it paid for me to live on campus and it paid for me to go to classes. And the vice president at the time was Joanne Glasser. And she was really instrumental in encouraging me to come and to accept the scholarship. And she was just always very personable when I was on campus, and she would always say hello. And I lived in my senior year in the Burkshire Apartments. K.B.: Oh sure. Yes. M.H.: And I think that she lived there because I would see her on the elevators. And you know, I just had a personal connection to the school, not just through my parents but because the people at the school were personal and personable with me. And so that influenced my decision to come here. K.B.: Of course. M.H.: And I had a really nice experience. K.B.: And was that a scholarship because of academic excellence? Could you tell us . . . M.H.: Yes. It was an academic scholarship. K.B.: That's great. Wonderful. So here you are at Towson, we hope having a good time, learning a whole bunch. And suddenly it’s senior year, and what were you thinking about in terms of after the bachelor's degree? M.H.: Right, so, the question that everyone always asks, right? Your senior year! You hate it! So what are you going to do? So and I brought . . . When I was an undergraduate at Towson, I was the mascot. So I brought my jersey--each season the tiger wore a different jersey to match the team, so this was my lacrosse jersey. I didn't know, but I thought I would bring that. And my mom--it was funny, when I told them that I had tried out and become the mascot, my mom said, “You know, Marie, you're not going to college to, to become a mascot, are you? This isn't something you're going to turn into a career, right?” And I said “Oh, no, no, no, no!” But, when I was in my senior year, I ended up getting a job with the Baltimore Ravens! K.B.: Did you really? M.H.: And so I was the Baltimore Ravens’ mascot for a while. That was one of the things that I did as I graduated from college. K.B.: Isn't that interesting? And which, which Raven were you? M.H.: I was Allan. K.B.: You were Allan. M.H.: And the previous tiger was Poe. K.B.: Oh, isn't that interesting? M.H.: So, I did that, and I also wasn't quite sure what I wanted to do. I also, because I had been active on campus as the mascot and doing a bunch of other things, I was familiar with the Development Office and the Alumni Office and the people who worked there. And they said they had a position opening and would it be something I would be interested in, working in the alumni office. So I applied for that. And I worked there for a year after my undergraduate degree. In fact, when I interviewed with them, because they knew me as a student, and they said, “Well, were you at one point thinking about becoming a teacher?” And I said, “Well, I am, and I'm not totally sure.” And, in fact, I had talked with Dr. Vocke in my senior year and said, “I think maybe I kind of might even though I don't really know maybe want to become a teacher. Could you tell me more about it?” He sort of explained if I were going to get a post bach, if I were to do the MAT program, kind of what that would look like. And so, that year after college I worked in the Alumni Office and it was a lot of fun. And we worked with, you know, the class of 1920 and the class of 1930 who were all women who had become teachers. K.B.: Right. M.H.: And I continued--I tutored students in math, actually. So, I was working with kids. And it was a fun job working in the Alumni Office. You traveled all over and talked to people who loved the institution. And I really enjoyed it. But I felt like something-- there was something more that I wanted to do that wasn't quite being captured in this job that I really liked. But it wasn't quite everything, which is when I went back and applied for, to the MAT program and entered that to become a teacher. K.B.: So, and that was the one year program plus summers? Something like that? M.H.: Right. So it started in May of, I guess, 2001. And you went through the summer of 2001, the school year of 2001-2002 and graduated in May of 2002 with a master’s and a teaching certificate. K.B.: Okay. So that--you went after a teaching certificate at the secondary level--in history, social studies? M.H.: In social studies. K.B.: Can you tell us a little bit about that experience? That must have been a very intensive experience if you were trying to do all of those education requirements in essentially one year. M.H.: It was. It definitely was. And I was still not 100% even sure that education was what I wanted to do. K.B.: Right. M.H.: I think it's one of those things where you have to kind of live it a little bit and then realize that oh, this was it. And that's when I had my first class. The very, very first education class was with Gloria Neubert and Jim Binko and they co-taught it, so it was really a morning and an afternoon class, and they sort of taught them both together. It was Principles of Secondary Education, and a reading course, which was Gloria's course. And they sort of support each other because it was brain-based research and everything. And it was the best course! Hearing Dr. Binko talk about what it was to be a teacher, and hearing him say teaching is an art, it's something that you perfect your whole life and that you are learning your whole life and it's this incredible profession, and I was in class and I was like, I did the right thing! I made the right . . . it was like he’s speaking to me! This is what I want to do! And then working with young people that . . . So the summer is all classes, you're not really in the schools because no one's in school. And then when we got in the schools, I just realized I love the energy of young people. Just their--I love teenagers! K.B.: So you went into, you went into schools that fall semester before you student taught. M.H.: Right. So it's like a two day a week internship, kind of. K.B.: I see. And what did you do in the schools? Did you mostly observe or did you actually interact with students at all? M.H.: A little bit of both. So the first - we went back that week that teachers are back before the students are there. K.B.: That's a great idea. M.H.: We were with our mentor teacher. Yeah. So we were seeing what they were doing to get their classroom ready, which was really valuable because we were going to be doing that in a year. And then how they started the year off, and we were with them then observing. And then as we got more comfortable, we were encouraged to, you know, write a little part of a lesson, or if they taught at first period then we could teach a little bit of it second period using their lesson and they were there to support us and make sure we felt comfortable. So that was what we did the first half of the year. Then the second half of the year is when we student taught. And we stayed with that mentor. K.B.: Oh, very nice. M.H.: So we stayed--I was in her class for the first eight weeks for my high school rotation, I was with the mentor and the classes I had been with, you know, in the fall. K.B.: So the students already knew you? M.H.: Yeah. K.B.: So that works out very well. But you had to do a second, different internship placement? M.H.: Yes, mmm hmm. K.B.: And where were the two? M.H.: So my first one was at South Carroll High School in Carroll County. And I had ninth grade government and some electives which I can't remember what the electives were now--the name of the course that was the elective. And then my second rotation was at Dumbarton Middle School with Jane Umstead. She taught seventh grade world cultures. K.B.: And so, for those, those internships, you were in schools for what, eight weeks? M.H.: I think two eight week sessions. So that semester, so 16 week semester, I was eight weeks in the high school and then eight weeks in the middle school. And then you graduate. K.B.: Other than that first course with Gloria and Jim, is there anything about your preparation that, as you look back, seemed to be especially meaningful or important in your development as a teacher? M.H.: Well, their course for sure was a great overview. And then we had a course with Bruce Damasio, who still teaches here. And it was a curriculum and instruction course and it was backwards design, and that was just like an, “Ah! Oh! This is how I'm supposed to look at curriculum!” You know I still have my McTighe book. And that was very helpful. And so it was a nice mix of theory and what that looked like in practical application. Which is what I liked about Gloria and Jim's class too. It was the theory, and here's why and here's how students develop and here's what we know about it, and here's why we care about that. Here's why you need to know this, because here's what it's going to look like in practice. So, those were useful. K.B.: Absolutely. So here you are. Whirlwind. Did you have coursework the following summer? M.H.: No. K.B.: Or were you through in May or June? M.H.: Right. K.B.: And have you applied for a position, do you know where you're going to go? M.H.: So I was applying for positions. And my sister was, interestingly, graduating as an undergraduate from University of Maryland with a dual major in mathematics and education. And, you know, math teachers, they're hot. Everyone wants a math teacher! K.B.: That's right. M.H.: And social studies teachers, we're a dime a dozen! So, you know, we're looking for jobs! My sister had applied to multiple places in both Prince Georges and Baltimore County, and I was applying to different schools in Baltimore County. And my sister was interviewed by the department chair, math department chair at Hereford High School in Baltimore County. And he really liked her and he told the principal, “You know you need to hire this one, I think she's going to do a really good job.” And I sent my resume to the principal, and he called me and said, “Ponzillo. Are you related to Holly Ponzillo?” And I said “Yes, that's my sister.” And he said “Well, apparently she's really good, so come on in for an interview!” K.B.: Oh! M.H.: So! She always says she ran point for me! K.B.: She did! And she'll never let you forget it, I'm sure! M.H.: No! So I interviewed with the principal, and at the time she still hadn't decided where she wanted to teach. She was, you know--Hereford is a pretty rural school, and she had student taught in much more sort of urban/suburban schools in Prince Georges County and she really liked that dynamic mix of students. She wasn't sure if that's where she felt comfortable. So she hadn't said yes to Hereford at that point. And the principal interviewed me and he said “Great, the job is yours if you want it.” K.B.: Wow! M.H.: “My question is, if your sister accepts this position, will the two of you be okay working together?” And I said “Yeah, I think that would be great! I would love to work with my sister!” So I accepted the position on the spot. K.B.: Immediately. M.H.: I thought this is great. It's a nice place and it's a job and I'm really looking forward to it. K.B.: Yeah. M.H.: And I called her and I said “Holly, I took the position at Hereford and the principal wants to know if you want it.” And she goes, “You know, I think it will be fun. I'll do it!” K.B.: Really! M.H.: So we both started our first year of teaching together at the same school, which was pretty cool. K.B.: Amazing. M.H.: Really special experience to go through one of the hardest, you know, years of your career ever with someone who you know has just got you and understands what's going on. So it was pretty neat. K.B.: Absolutely! Well, and I'm sure they thought that was a special prize to get both of you! M.H.: Two for the price of one or whatever! K.B.: Yeah, really, really. So tell us about that first year. M.H.: So the first year of teaching is overwhelming. But I was very lucky to have had excellent mentors before I started teaching, so that system where I was in the school two days a week and sort of supported, and then worked with that mentor teacher, and then both my mentor teachers were phenomenal and totally different in styles. And then I had a department chair who was very supportive and kind of intimidating but was good because I wanted to work! You know, I wanted to work not just for the kids but also for her. And I realized that I was so glad that I had decided to go into teaching . . . K.B.: Oh. M.H.: . . . because it felt like such a nice fit of skills that I have, and working—I had always wanted to, going back to that sort of helper role, want to work with people. And I just found out that I happened to really like teenage people. They can, you know--they can make you want to pull your hair out, but they're just very hopeful, and very--they're jaded in the way that they, like, you know, want to be cool and sort of perceive the world as what they think an adult would perceive it, but they just have so much child in them too, and they just bring--it's like, so nice to work with young people all day. And, you know--yes, there are days when it's frustrating or difficult because you're working with human beings--but it was very nice that first year of teaching. It was hard and a lot of work and a lot of planning, but overall I felt like this was it. This was good. And I got married at the end of that year . . . K.B.: Oh my heavens! M.H.: . . . and my husband is a teacher who went through the MAT program in Elementary Ed. K.B.: Ah! M.H.: And so, it's, you know, kind of neat to--it's like a lifestyle choice when you have two teachers married together. Because you have--it's just an interesting season of work, you know. It's kind of intense, intense, intense; then there's a break, and then intense, intense, and then there's, like, the time together in the summer, which you're doing other things still, but it's just pretty neat. K.B.: Yeah, yeah. To share that schedule alone, it's very helpful, beneficial because your lives sort of are on the same schedule. M.H.: Yeah. K.B.: And as time went by, did you take on any administrative responsibilities? M.H.: So I did. I started picking up . . . I was mentoring. My department chair had me mentoring new teachers coming into the school, and also the social studies-- the Office of Social Studies--had me mentoring new teachers coming into . . . throughout the school system in sort of--I wouldn't say --I didn't have the title of mentor. But I would partner with new world history teachers across the system because that's what I taught across the school system, and then they would provide substitutes for that person to come to my classroom or for me to go to that person's classroom. I took the courses to become a department chair; Baltimore County has you go through certain leadership courses so that . . . should you want to apply for that position, you have that background. K.B.: Right. And how did you feel about that? M.H.: I thought that that would probably be something I would be interested in doing except that the certain subjects . . . the department chair has more administrative responsibility and less teaching responsibility. And I didn't want to be in a place where I was not teaching. So I liked the idea of the leadership responsibility and working with other teachers and the idea that I could still affect students by helping teachers, but I didn't want to be in a position where I was not teaching, because I really have a passion for my content and for the kids. I think I would miss that - I thought I would miss that if I were fully in an administrative role. K.B.: Right. Yeah. So you're doing this for a few years? And did you start taking on some higher ed responsibilities even as you continued to teach? M.H.: I did, yes. K.B.: Somebody made a phone call, or . . . ? M.H.: Right. So I was writing curriculum in Baltimore County. And then in Baltimore County, Betsy Neville was still--she is now the Special Ed. department chair here. She was over in Baltimore County at the time. And she was running a class through TLN--the Towson Learning Network--where she wanted to develop, design a curriculum for differentiated instruction. And it would sort of . . . the first class would be run by her. And she invited the people to, invited the students . . . so we would be designing the curriculum with her. And then we would go out and teach the course for TLN within the schools. K.B.: Right. M.H.: So she said . . . actually it was, it wasn't Betsy. I didn't know Betsy. It was Liz Berquist. K.B.: Oh, sure. M.H.: So, she knew Betsy and she knew me. And she said, “Betsy, we should ask Marie if she wants to do this.” So that's how I ended up helping design the curriculum, and then I started adjuncting for Towson, because since I helped design it, then part of the process was that you taught it the next semester. K.B.: Of course. Absolutely. M.H.: So that's what happened there. K.B.: Yeah. And you did that for a little while? M.H.: A couple of years. I adjuncted - uh, adjuncted? Is that a verb? I don't know! K.B.: Oh, why not? M.H.: I taught adjunct classes, I was an adjunct for a couple of years! And then, again, Liz, by this time, was a lecturer at Towson. And I had left Baltimore County. So I had my first--I have three children. And they're currently six, four and two. K.B.: Oh my heavens! That's a job in and of itself! M.H.: It is a job! That's why I thought maybe I had yogurt on my face before this. So when I was pregnant with the now four-year-old, is when I left teaching full time and went to doing several adjunct classes a semester. K.B.: Yes. M.H.: And then Liz--a position came open in Towson, which interestingly was actually--my dad had been filling. And he had been working with new math and science teachers in Baltimore County and mentoring them, and it was a partnership between Baltimore County and Towson. And he was fully retiring and they were looking for his replacement. And of course my dad does not say, “Oh, you know who might be good is my daughter.” No. They're saying, who could we have for this? And Liz said, “You know, I think Steve's daughter might actually be interested and may be ready to go back to work full time.” And my dad goes “Oh, you think?” So they said “Hey, would you like to apply for this position?” So I put my resume in and I interviewed with Jeff Kenton and Judy Reber. And they offered me the position, and so I did that for a year. But in the meantime the economy had turned sour and there wasn't a need for teachers. So it was mentoring uncertified teachers and helping them earn their certification, but the partnership ended and the job was no longer! K.B.: Yeah. M.H.: But I really liked working here, and so the dean and Betsy and Judy said, “Is there somewhere we can, you know, put her? Because we think that, you know, she's a good fit, and I said “I'll do pretty much anything! So fortunately, Secondary Ed.-- Jeff Passe, at the time, was the department chair--interviewed me. And he said, “Yeah, we have a, a PDS liaison position coming up and I think that you would work well there, and would that be something you were interested in?” So that's, then, how I kind of transitioned from MAT over to Secondary Ed., which is where I am now. K.B.: So, tell us about what you're doing as a member of the Department of Secondary Ed.? M.H.: So right now, this semester, I teach Social Studies Methods classes, which I like because I do have the passion for the history content, so it's kind of fun to keep, keep current with that part of the field as well as the education part of the field. So I teach Social Studies methods. And I teach one of our TU Core classes, “Ethics, Education and Change.” So I have lots of different students in that class actually, so I have education--pre-education majors, and I also have students from all over Towson's campus because it's an open class. K.B.: Yes. M.H.: So I feel a little connected back to my undergrad roots . . . K.B.: Absolutely. M.H.: . . . when I have all these, all kinds of students that are in my class, which is pretty neat. K.B.: Very nice. M.H.: And I'm now in the doctorate program at Towson. So I don't know if that's part of my role in Secondary Ed., but Towson has the Instructional Technology Ed.D. So, I'm in my second year of that program. K.B.: My heavens. And now have three children. M.H.: And along the way, there was a third one added! Yes! K.B.: Yeah. I don't see that there's much, you know, boring, spare time in that schedule at all. M.H.: I've decided that the doctorate is my hobby. That's how I approach it, so it's my time. K.B.: I think that's wise on your part. One of the things I noticed as I was looking over your vita was that you continue to stay very much connected to public education, and that's always one of the things that we are concerned about, is that our faculty at Towson remain connected with what's happening sort of preK-12. Can you tell me a little bit about some of the things that you've done in collaboration, I think, with Baltimore County? M.H.: First, I think that that is true, and sort of having a foot in both worlds, and kind . . . somewhat recently . . . not so far away . . . I think I can still picture my K-12 self, or my secondary self thinking, “Well, that's really all fine and dandy for, you know, the folks in the tower, but what does that mean for me, who is actually in practice with this?” K.B.: Yes. M.H.: So I do think that it's important to make sure that I remain in touch with what is actually happening within the practice of the field as well as the theory of the field. And so one of the things that we do in Secondary Ed. is our students - and I think this is college wide, is we have our students in professional developments schools, so, and I student taught in a professional development school, which is why I had that mentor for the spring and the, or the fall and the spring. K.B.: Fall and spring. M.H.: So we have our classes, especially I teach in the middle school program, too, in the actual middle school--so I teach at Loch Raven Academy. I have the Social Studies methods course there. The students get to the first part of the class, we sit in the back of a social studies classroom and we observe, and then we meet as a class and we talk about what we saw and the methods we saw and social studies methods. And, because of that partnership, I do professional development with the school, so I just last Friday presented--they had a professional development day--so I worked with the staff there to come up with appropriate professional development for the teachers, so we did integrating technology. And so that was the presentation there. So, just partnering with the schools and making sure that it's a genuine partnership, so that they do a lot of work to help our student teachers and that takes a lot of energy and time and resources, and to make sure that we are also – it’s genuinely a partnership and we're not just asking them to help with our student teachers, but that there's something for them in it too, which is also for us because we're still - then we get to remain in the K-12 schools. So part of it is the professional development and access to resources that hopefully our institution can provide for the schools. K.B.: That's a lot of effort as well. And it, and especially to do something in a partnership way, is a whole lot more work than just sort of not doing that. M.H.: Right. K.B.: But it sounds like you feel that that's not only appropriate, but something that definitely should happen. M.H.: Plus, it's still - and I still feel it's a little bit selfish, because I walk in and there's just a buzz, when you walk into a - when you walk into a high school you can just feel it, you know? And they all have their own feeling, but it's just - I think it's just the buzz of the age, you know, of the students that are there, that are sort of in this transition point in their lives between kids and adults and it's just neat! It's just nice to be there. And this happens on campus too, because we're still in that kind of, you know, transition between the students. K.B.: Sure. M.H.: It's just different when you're in high school. It's just a neat feeling. So. K.B.: Absolutely. Marie, what have we forgotten? Were there things that you wanted to talk about that come to mind? M.H.: No, but I will say that Towson, for me, has been just great--professionally and personally. I mean, it's been a wonderful institution for me and I hope that I can serve and give back to it, too, by just working here and presenting the face of the university in a positive way. And I'm thankful that you asked me to do this because I hope that this can be one of those ways to just memorialize how helpful and wonderful it's been for me. K.B.: Well I'm thankful that I asked you to do this too because this has been a wonderful conversation! Our last question is always the same, and that's, given your numbers of years in Secondary Ed., what would you say, what wisdom would you share to individuals who are considering teaching as a career? M.H.: Well, fortunately, I get to work with people who are considering teaching as a career, and I tell them it is the best job if you love kids, and, for secondary, you also love your content. So if you genuinely like humans and you like kids, and you genuinely like whatever that content is that's driving you, that you want to teach--so for me it was social studies--you will love this job. It will be tiring on certain days and hard, and it's unique, but it's really wonderful if you can say yes to those to two things. So. That's what I tell the people who want to be teachers! K.B.: Absolutely. Well, and that's good for them to hear and those are two, two very important “ifs” indeed. Well, thank you so much for spending some time with us and sharing your own autobiography in terms of your career. M.H.: Well, thank you. It was a pleasure.