00:00:02.080 - 00:01:05.060

Todd-Diaz, Ashley: All right, take it away. Firebaugh, Bethany: Okay. So before we begin, I just wanted to go ahead and go over a few things. First off, I wanted to take the opportunity to formally introduce myself. My name is Bethany Firebaugh. I am a rising senior here at Towson, and I am majoring in history and minoring in environmental sustainability. I am currently one of the 3 student research assistants working for the Unearthing Firebaugh, Bethany: TU History Project. Would you prefer to be called Lonnie or Mr. McNew? Firebaugh, Bethany: Okay, I definitely want to take the chance to thank you for taking time out of your day to speak with us. As I mentioned in my first email, this interview request came as a part of the Unearthing TU History Project, which aims to uncover Towson's History of Diversity and Desegregation. I just wanted to verify that you signed the oral history release form and are okay with us, recording this call as an oral history.

00:01:05.710 - 00:01:54.180

Lonnie: Yes. Firebaugh, Bethany: okay. So we have about 18 questions to ask you today, which are a mix of general questions about your time at Towson, and then I have several specific ones about disabled student services. Do you have any questions from before we get started? Okay. Firebaugh, Bethany: so I understand that you attended Towson, both for your undergrad and graduate degree, doing undergrad in the late sixties, and then your master's in the early seventies. What made you decide to pursue an education at Towson? Lonnie: Well, I actually went to school at Towson. When I was 13 years old my mom was at Towson to get her certification to teach

00:01:54.730 - 00:02:34.640

Lonnie: and So we we drove every day to school. I mean, the reason I went is because I was a little jerk. She she couldn't. My mom couldn't leave me home with my sister, who was taking care of my my 2 younger brothers, Lonnie: because I would drive her crazy. So I had to go, and I would complain that my grades are okay. Why am I going to summer school? But when I got there, I loved it. There was a professor, but when the Professor, then a teacher Lonnie: name David Cornfo, who became a a professor, at Towson education program later. I knew it Lonnie: that. But he was a wonderful teacher. And

00:02:34.870 - 00:03:04.150

Lonnie: I just, I enjoyed that whole experience, wanted to go back to next year we couldn't and so that was my first exposure to Towson and my mother got her certification. She had a long teaching career. Lonnie: She was a one of the few working mothers in those days, in the fifties Lonnie: she worked at the My dad was an electrician worked with pulling company railroads, and my mom worked at the Lonnie: Here at engraving and printing.

00:03:04.310 - 00:03:34.920

Lonnie: and so Lonnie: we were. We were. We didn't raise ourselves, but we were we. We were Lonnie: without a mother and a father. During the day we went to school. We caught the bus, and and and then, Lonnie: but, that was my my first exposure to Towson. And and if you ask why we, I picked Towson, I wanted to go back. So so then after high school I went to the Marine Core for 4 years, and I got out 5 days later, I was a freshman at Towson.

00:03:35.580 - 00:04:02.220

Firebaugh, Bethany: Oh, thank you for your service. I come from a military family myself, with all of my cousins in the marines. Firebaugh, Bethany: And then, likewise Firebaugh, Bethany: Did Towson have any reputation you knew about prior to choosing to attend? Lonnie: it it it's reputation with the the best

00:04:02.230 - 00:04:43.480

Lonnie: teacher educatation, in fact, the year before I came as a freshman. It was called Towson State Teachers College, and it was a when I got there. It was Towson Lonnie: State College, but I was there to teach. I majored in biology, and I want to teach biology. And then that's why I went there. It had a great reputation for teacher education Lonnie: best in state by opinion. But Firebaugh, Bethany: thank you. And then I know over the 40 plus years that you worked at the university, you held a variety of different positions. Could you briefly explain those positions that you held throughout the years?

00:04:44.280 - 00:05:03.830

Lonnie: Yeah. Well, actually, we Lonnie: my wife also went to Towson, and and she she Lonnie: left school after her sophomore year when I graduated and she worked a year, and I taught a year, and we got married, and she she wanted to come back to Towson to finish her degree. Lonnie: So

00:05:03.900 - 00:05:46.450

Lonnie: I was the the this gets con-diluted. This this is the Director of Residents, Mary Lee Farlow. asked me to come back and work, and she had a she had a long standing application for full time positions to replace Lonnie: retiring house mothers in the residents halls. So Lonnie: I was coming back actually to teach in Baltimore County, moved from Anne Arundel county to Baltimore County, and she offered me that position and and I took it so that I that that fall Lonnie: I started in margin. I moved into it by by the way, all her residents, staff members, had to live on campus in resident halls.

00:05:46.750 - 00:06:21.630

Lonnie: and that was an experience we had a 6 year about 6 year. experience living on campus in various residents halls Lonnie: the first year, was Ward Hall. That's now, I understand, the counseling center or the health center. but it was a men's residence hall, and that I'll stop it. 52 or so young man. Lonnie: And there was an apartment there then. That was that was where we live, where house mother used to live, I guess. Lonnie: and early on I just, funny story, and early on during that that fall

00:06:21.640 - 00:06:54.740

Lonnie: Margie was walking back from class, and a young man student, probably a senior Lonnie: caught up with her, and and as to walk along with it. So she said sure so, and he said, do you live on campus? She said yes, and then and then he asked, Well, which one? And she says 'that one' and she pointed to Ward Hall, which he knew apparently it was a mens residence hall, so he went ahead and scratched his head, she explained I guess, but boy, but she had experiences like that. But she Lonnie: she was young, and she was very young looking. Lonnie: but That was that was that

00:06:54.810 - 00:07:22.170

Lonnie: my first year at Towson I worked in the residence department as assistant director of residence. Lonnie: and my responsibilities were to, several residents Lonnie: and I was in charge of those residence halls, and I work with the RA's in those halls to keep the order into to make make for Lonnie: a good educational experience living on campus.

00:07:25.750 - 00:07:58.470

Firebaugh, Bethany: Okay? And Firebaugh, Bethany: correct me if I'm wrong. Did you do that from around 1970 up to 1974? Lonnie: Yes, but but I I did that. But in 1974, I believe we were Lonnie: we. We were the the residence department was in student affairs. I I can't remember whether it was called student services student Affairs or Dean of students office. I don't know. But anyway, we we were in that division

00:07:58.530 - 00:08:21.800

Lonnie: And our responsibilities were Lonnie: housing, but also student services. Lonnie: And and that's what I I guess I got involved in, and as did all the other Residents folks, and and the services that Lonnie: disabled students because they started coming. Actually, when when I was a senior a a, a a classmate

00:08:21.960 - 00:08:51.100

Lonnie: his name was Paul Mcgraw was an African American, totally blind student. And he'd been blind since 3, I think. Lonnie: and he had a friend. I'm trying to remember his name. I remember it this morning and forgot to write it down, anyway. He had a friend, also totally blind, and both of them, they were classmates at the Maryland school for the blind. Firebaugh, Bethany: and kids come out of that school. Blind Lonnie: individuals that come out of that school

00:08:51.310 - 00:09:26.350

Lonnie: are very independent. They he didn't. They weren't any services. And he didn't need them. And and the the people I have good friends that lived on the same floor as him, and they're they're still good friends and still talk to him, and they say he in that back I do then that that Lonnie: they would try to help me. He wouldn't accept that but he was just one of the guys Lonnie: and but he after Lonnie: I I guess the first week of orientation he knew where his classes were, and he knew how to get there, and he got there using his cane and he had braille.

00:09:26.960 - 00:09:50.090

Lonnie: so he didn't he? Later on we we had. We did some services for the blind students. but Lonnie: They they weren't as independent as he and we have. Lonnie: I'll tell you. I I guess in a follow up question. If you had that, how we that we did that. and almost an ad hoc way, because we didn't have Lonnie: there where no formal services

00:09:55.910 - 00:10:25.820

Firebaugh, Bethany: okay, So you went from the resident director to you worked as the assistant to the Vice President for student services next correct, and that's what there was a reorganization that that that moved Lonnie: the the residence staff, the director, and and her staff Lonnie: from Lonnie: and student affairs to auxiliary services. And that's the unit on campus that works with the the

00:10:26.120 - 00:11:00.240

Lonnie: food services, residents and anything that that brings income brings revenue to the university Lonnie: And the president's staff, they didn't like that because they saw themselves as as student affairs people, and that Lonnie: assisting, you know, being part of the education of students and and they always were in my opinion. But anyway, they they did move to that, and that that sort of turned out to be not a bad move at all for them, they good leaders, and and Lonnie: and more resources, because it was one of the one of the

00:11:03.050 - 00:11:34.690

Lonnie: financial divisions of the University Lonnie: but I stayed in, and I stayed in my same chair in the same office. But I stayed in the Student Affairs Division were and reported to the A. Lonnie: you know, dean of students, who at the time it was Dorothy Siegel. but I was responsible before that change. I was responsible for Lonnie: those kinds of services. I was. I train I select oh, well, we we

00:11:34.770 - 00:12:01.460

Lonnie: a group selected resident assistants, and I trained them. Lonnie: I was at the time working on and eventually completing my masters in guidance and counseling. and I was teaching a I was in included in their training. Lonnie: So some basic not counseling skills necessarily, but but understanding and and helping skills Lonnie: that, that. the students.

00:12:01.690 - 00:12:28.840

Lonnie: the student assistants or RA's. really, really enjoy that. And and Lonnie: appreciated that. That program worked pretty well. Firebaugh, Bethany: Yeah, I can only imagine. Lonnie: We started, there was a a student organization under SGA called F. A. C. Freshman Advisory Council

00:12:29.020 - 00:12:51.400

Lonnie: and they were That was student. It was students selected and Lonnie: and student trained, I guess, and they Lonnie: they assisted the orientation folks in welcoming new freshmen and helping them get adjusted and and Lonnie: and individually helping them with with issues. This is for students, not just on residence, but across the whole campus.

00:12:51.530 - 00:13:38.830

Lonnie: And I love that program. I knew some of the students in it. And I I wanted to do something like that within the residence program where students come and live And the freshman. Lonnie: What I want to do with that is, is as students closest to the age of the entering freshmen that I want them to start as sophomores and train them as freshman, and start them as sophomores. It's being essentially peer counselors or peer helpers is better. But Lonnie: and that work mostly. Well. we we Lonnie: that's a it took some of the same students to run that as a that freshman advisory council So, by the way, the SGA and the and the this all most got me boiled in oil because they they were very proud of that program was very effective, and and I knew it would continue and be very effective but for for commuter students, and that

00:13:38.970 - 00:14:35.320

Lonnie: but that was a that was a hard time for you, because they were mad at me for a while. I partially took care of that by by hiring some of those same people, but wasn't hiring them if we don't pay them. But So we we selected them during their their first semester freshman year and trained them during their second semester freshman year, and then they they were in business. They were working. Lonnie: as sophomores welcoming these students on campus and living in same areas as them. The program worked well. I wrote a, Lonnie: not book, but a pamphlet about that, that we shared with the professional Residents Association and they kept asking for more copies, and so on. That worked well. Lonnie: I was also as as a associate director of residents. I got a promotion into somewhere, but working in student services continuing to.

00:14:35.340 - 00:14:58.660

Lonnie: I was responsible for training a resident assistant. Lonnie: and many of them were, as as distinct progress, that many of them were actually Lonnie: fracks. We call it the Freshman Residence Advisory Council Lonnie: students that we chose from that population for some of our resident assistants, not exclusive to the population.

00:14:58.730 - 00:15:40.470

Firebaugh, Bethany: and then out of curiosity at this time in terms of like on campus housing, were there any modified dorm rooms, for. Lonnie: like disabled students like where they're no, not at this point there were some that work work for disabled students. Wheelchair bound students we put in a hall that had at least one entrance, where they wouldn't have to be carried up the steps that eventually got that we didn't have enough of those those kinds of spaces. So Lonnie: we had to. We had Lonnie: students, help them. And we'd hired students actually to help, but we we started from scratch. We didn't

00:15:40.570 - 00:16:02.150

Lonnie: know a lot about that. Lonnie: I, I and others, a colleague, started going to Lonnie: organizations. Lonnie: state organizations and and that's not something blanking on the name of it, but there was a there's a a State office for for handicapped individuals, and and that

00:16:02.250 - 00:16:31.950

Lonnie: I I Lonnie: don't can't remember the name, and I don't want to name now that I should have put all that up. But They held meetings, and they were. They were working with schools. but not as they what it's a section 504, Yup. Section 504. At the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. Yes. Lonnie: It called for a lot of changes. Lonnie: Got it done, calls

00:16:32.230 - 00:16:55.060

Lonnie: it. It calls for a lot of the changes architectural and and and service. Lonnie: and let's see Lonnie: in Universities and the State buildings. But like that that has to be money appropriated to make those Lonnie: very expensive changes.

00:16:55.220 - 00:17:22.950

Lonnie: At Towson, finally, Lonnie: years after I left that building, what was the Administration building, Lonnie: on Osler drive Lonnie: That was, you could get to the first floor, but you got it. It it wasn't so the the first. There was no ramp on the the front of the building where people would enter, the admissions office was right there, for peats sake, so we couldn't get into the admissions office.

00:17:23.010 - 00:17:49.010

Lonnie: and it just took a long time without the money to do that. Lonnie: and then when they, when they did it, when they Lonnie: they do X-rays to to determine the structure of the building, whether it's because another concrete ramp was going up there, and they discovered that that the building didn't meet code when it was built. Lonnie: You know I at that time I was in charge of the financial aid, and and also the registrar, and all these, these, all all the offices, were in that building, and

00:17:49.880 - 00:18:25.120

Lonnie: I had a riot on my hands as we where working in a building that was going to fall down so that they they put reinforcement in there which which didn't really make people feel that much better. But we did for that for a while. So they they had to make those changes and then build the ramp. so, and they're at at every building. They I think there may be only one building, Lonnie: Smith Hall, you could get in there. Lonnie: Actually, Stephens (Hall) you could get to the first floor in a wheelchair, but Lonnie: so we had to, we hired students

00:18:25.520 - 00:19:00.860

Lonnie: to pay them to to to assist those students, and we had to find students who had similar schedules, or at least a schedule where they would be free to go help the student in a wheelchair up, up steps. Lonnie: which is, it probably wouldn't be legal to do that now. But you know we had to get the kids to class. Firebaugh, Bethany: Well, and then you mentioned Firebaugh, Bethany: Paul Mcgraw, and his friend that came from the Maryland school of The Blind. When you first started working at Towson were there many disabled students and professors?

00:19:01.140 - 00:19:50.190

Lonnie: uh Lonnie: the only student I know was Paul and his friend, best friend, who was also totally blind, and a white student. And Paul was African-American. I don't know whether I mentioned that before. but they were classmates. I guess at the Maryland School for the Blind. Lonnie: and they're, I'm sure they were up. But but when I was a student, but not many Firebaugh, Bethany: And I know when you served as Vice President, as the assistant to the Vice President of Student Services, And you were in charge of these services for disabled students that you served as a liaison for to assist faculty. what were faculty attitudes like towards the introduction of these services?

00:19:50.280 - 00:20:19.670

Lonnie: Well, some of them where nervous, you know. They they were. Nobody was. Nobody was angry about it but they they were concerned about it, you know what. But so we had to Lonnie: not only find students to help them, but we had to Lonnie: help them find schedules and I didn't do that. I did some of that personally, but I didn't do all that personally, but Lonnie: it didn't... It wasn't part of my job description as

00:20:20.460 - 00:20:42.690

Lonnie: what's it called, you just said it, Firebaugh, Bethany: the Assistant to the Vice President of Student Services. Yeah, well, that that was after I moved over to Assistant to the Vice President of Student Services. That was promotion. Lonnie: and I moved over to the to the Administration Building Lonnie: and

00:20:43.150 - 00:21:20.720

Lonnie: I took services to disabled students with me. Didn't know it at the time! But I because... a lot of people were doing that, but somebody had to coordinate it and I was doing that. Lonnie: and a lot of other things that, I don't know wether you know of Dorothy Siegel, but she was a very active vice president. She, Lonnie: She come up with a with a program design, Lonnie: while she's eating her breakfast in the morning, and we'd be implementing it the next day. So there was a lot to do. So I knew we needed, we needed an office for that. I requested a position.

00:21:20.990 - 00:21:48.270

Lonnie: and we actually started with graduate assistants Lonnie: and we had... graduate assistants from schools that offered Lonnie: degrees... working with handicapped people. So we had a couple of them and a couple of others that didn't, but had some experiences that would make them good for the job. Firebaugh, Bethany: I was definitely curious as to how you came to be in charge of these services.

00:21:48.970 - 00:22:14.660

Firebaugh, Bethany: How did that responsibility end up being placed with you? Lonnie: I wondered about that a lot! But because, Lonnie: many handicapped, disabled students needed housing. Lonnie: and as we were the housing staff, and I was the is in charge of programming for it and

00:22:14.840 - 00:22:53.050

Lonnie: So it, Lonnie: just, naturally fell to me, you know, and everybody worked on it, but it naturally was my responsibility. So not request funds for because, we were hiring students that served it. And we hired students, but we also depended on just the goodness of students, because we weren't going to pay them. Because what, for example, if a student, a disabled students, was in a class Lonnie: and the student had a difficulty writing Lonnie: or couldn't take notes fast enough, then... we'd

00:22:53.350 - 00:23:09.360

Lonnie: give a fellow student Lonnie: ... and our students, the students that worked for us, would help us find the student in that class Lonnie: who wouldn't mind putting a piece of carbonized paper Lonnie: under her note, his or her notes.

00:23:09.640 - 00:23:59.550

Lonnie: and they had a copy of, and they people who were good students and had good legible notes, and so the disabled student had another set. They were... making their own notes, but they had another set. Firebaugh, Bethany: That was definitely one of the things I was interested to find out about because we still do that today. And I had no idea this is where that originated from Firebaugh, Bethany: And then so these services started at the University due to Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act. Lonnie: Actually, when it started I hadn't heard of that. It actually started, I got there in the 70s, it may have been students that year. I can't remember, but with the so all the other things that the RA's would already come back and talk about over, what we note going in is if there's a disabled student

00:23:59.930 - 00:24:15.840

Lonnie: we knew we were. Lonnie: There has to be some accommodation to the living arrangement, and there and then, and we we had to get them to get them in their classes. Lonnie: Thats a resident staff responsibility, and Lonnie: I just

00:24:16.010 - 00:24:50.690

Lonnie: picked up from there, and it didn't fall on me, but I was enjoying doing it so... when the reorganization occurred, I just Lonnie: took it with me. I don't really go. Firebaugh, Bethany: The reorganization, did that take, when did that take place? Did it take place in 1976? Because I noticed in 1976 that's when Firebaugh, Bethany: There is a little blur that began appearing in the student catalogue advertising these services.

00:24:51.380 - 00:25:22.770

Lonnie: Well... the change occurred before that. I, I'm a little foggy on when I moved over to the Administration Building. but I was doing that, Lonnie: coordinating that, not not doing that, but Other other duties as well, but that that was Lonnie: something that just went with me. Lonnie: as I said, that reorganization didn't move my chair... immediately and but by 76' I know I was in this in the Administration building.

00:25:23.020 - 00:25:53.690

Firebaugh, Bethany: and at this point Firebaugh, Bethany: was there like an official office, or was with like additional staff. Or were you just? Was it more loosely coordinated? That's what 1976 might have been. I requested a position Lonnie: and Lonnie: confiscated an office to do it, and it needed to be a big enough office to get more than one person seated, and so on, that people could be be comfortable.

00:25:54.350 - 00:26:12.850

Firebaugh, Bethany: And did you have additional staff assigned to help you? Lonnie: Well I hired people..for that staff, usually one physician. And then we had graduate students and Lonnie: undergraduate student employees. Firebaugh, Bethany: okay,

00:26:13.310 - 00:26:53.090

Firebaugh, Bethany: and I know one caveat with disability services in college is, students have to go ahead and identify themselves to the university. did you have a lot of students in these early years coming and identifying themselves, or were not a lot of students reaching out? Lonnie: ... Well, we found them. So you know, we got people in residents letting us know, letting student services know that they had a student with these needs they couldn't meet. Lonnie: So some were deaf students, particularly where very, Lonnie: yeah,

00:26:53.440 - 00:27:14.700

Lonnie: they were up front about it. They, they need services, and we need to give it next. Lonnie: That was a hard one, because Lonnie: signers expenses are very expensive. Lonnie: So that was, we never were comfortable with how we able to handle that. Fortunately we had state agencies that would help, and and so on.

00:27:15.250 - 00:27:49.810

Lonnie: But we did it. We, we put money in it where we had. Firebaugh, Bethany: So I know you just mentioned signers, in addition to signers, I also know services such as Firebaugh, Bethany: early registration and note takers, which we are talking about, and special parking, where all offered. Was one of these services, would you say was utilized the most by students? Or would you say that it was kind of spread out, and everything was equally utilized? Lonnie: It wasn't equally, it was as needed. We had a period ,especially

00:27:49.860 - 00:28:02.720

Lonnie: later on, we had a flood of Lonnie: But we have a lot of students. Lonnie: with Lonnie: learning disability, learning disabilities.

00:28:02.900 - 00:28:29.000

Lonnie: and that wasn't defined very well for us at first. So it, you know, we Lonnie: we knew we had to make accommodations but.. faculty wanted to know where the accommodations line was drawn. So we we, you know, it's easy to say well, what we wanted to make certain that that that student has Lonnie: an opportunity to meet the requirements of the course. Lonnie: but

00:28:29.790 - 00:28:56.420

Lonnie: that it only goes so far. It, you know, we had to help people understand. Is it still possible for that to fail the course. Lonnie: We'd made the accommodations that we needed to make, you know. If the student didn't pass so, but Lonnie: I mean, that was sometimes hard to draw that line. So that was the Academic Standards Committee got very good at that Lonnie: and so

00:28:56.580 - 00:29:16.520

Lonnie: these students, some of them, many of them, did extremely well. But some, didn't we. We were talking about accommodations like Lonnie: ... Lonnie: ...with more time on, on tests and those things. And we never, you... asked about faculty members Lonnie: ..., if if

00:29:16.760 - 00:29:49.490

Lonnie: faculty resisted, that we found another faculty member. It was not. We didn't want to make, you know. We didn't want to Lonnie: like faculty member uncomfortable. But we find that we, Lonnie: before registration, we our people would find faculty members that understood and helped them understand how that's going to be different. Lonnie: That works much easier with other disabilities. It... was a learning experience for all of us with the

00:29:49.940 - 00:30:04.340

Lonnie: learning disabled students. Firebaugh, Bethany: I'm sure that's going very well now. Firebaugh, Bethany: Yes, I think Firebaugh, Bethany: it is impressive, because I know I was doing a lot of reading and seeing so early on Towson

00:30:04.480 - 00:30:39.470

Firebaugh, Bethany: implementing and trying to help kids with learning disabilities. Because I from what I've read, it wasn't until, like the nineties, early 2000s that they got on the State honesty and Federal level, they really stepped up and started helping kids with learning disabilities. So it was, it was definitely very exciting for me to be reading through and being like 'Okay, Towson was trying very early on'. Lonnie: There's a whole unit for that, in Student Affairs eventually Lonnie: and Firebaugh, Bethany: And then, also

00:30:39.510 - 00:31:11.710

Firebaugh, Bethany: through my research, I found out in 1980 you were the first recipient of the Baltimore County Medical Association's Distinguished Service award. Firebaugh, Bethany: And I know you won that for your work with disabled students at Towson. Would you be able to tell me a little more about that. Lonnie: Yeah, that was Dorthy Siegal. She knew Lonnie: that they did that every year. She she submitted by name, and it

00:31:12.750 - 00:31:37.240

Lonnie: I'd like to meet the person that was as good as she described me when she sent that in but that was, I was, I was very humbled by that, and Lonnie: I think I still have the Lonnie: award plaque that they gave me. Lonnie: but... so many people where involved in that, I wasn't too much else to do, though I wasn't doing a lot of it myself.

00:31:37.440 - 00:32:05.930

Lonnie: Of course, Lonnie: I was sort of a zealot for it, to get people involved there. But Firebaugh, Bethany: I was a little embarrassed that she did that Firebaugh, Bethany: next question I have for you is, I know well, so unfortunately, there's not much documentation in the archives on all of this, which is why I was so excited when you said that you would be willing to speak with us. But

00:32:06.480 - 00:32:43.150

Firebaugh, Bethany: from what I figured out was Lynn Dowell took over services after you. When did she end up taking over as coordinator of handicap services? Lonnie: Actually I hired her. I knew her well. She was happy, and she was working in the advising office...and Lonnie: loved it. But... she was terrified that she was going to be asked to do this. And I said, I'm not going to make you do it Lonnie: but I am gonna pay you to do it, but a little bit about Lynne;

00:32:43.820 - 00:33:20.610

Lonnie: you must know she was a poet, she was one of the most sensitive people I've ever know. It, it tortured her. See, she first of all, she immediately developed these relationships, and she, I remember there was this one kid, from Baltimore City that was a commuter Lonnie: and he was not a paraplegic, but he was confined to a wheelchair Lonnie: and was the nicest kid, and... was not healthy at all, and he died.. well before he got his degree. Lonnie: and it just destroyed her. She...

00:33:21.700 - 00:33:59.160

Lonnie: formed a personal relationship with, with every one of the kids she worked with and then died not that long ago. Firebaugh, Bethany: Yes, unfortunately, I did see that. So... Do you know Firebaugh, Bethany: when was she hired? Was that like, I couldn't find the exact date on that. Was that like 1980? Lonnie: No, it was. It long before that it was, I think, the late seventies, I think. That was a regular position, so I think the personnel department will have

00:33:59.170 - 00:34:24.960

Lonnie: that there. There'd be a personal record on that, when we filled (the position). She was the first Lonnie: permanent person (apart from the) graduate students. and I may have had contractual people and so on Firebaugh, Bethany: that I Firebaugh, Bethany: okay, and then moving on, what would you consider your greatest accomplishment at Towson to be?

00:34:26.760 - 00:34:53.960

Lonnie: Well. Lonnie: I know that's a little bit of a loaded question. Lonnie: I have an immediate answer, but it doesn't have much to do with disabled students. I was, as Associate Vice President for enrollment management, I was in charge of admissions, Lonnie: financial aid, the registrar's office, and on and off institutional research, I did a lot of research doing that.

00:34:54.420 - 00:35:12.540

Lonnie: And Lonnie: we came up with, oh and another named Camille Clay, Lonnie: who was in the Lonnie: the position's name, its name's changed over time, but she was responsible for

00:35:12.710 - 00:35:23.020

Lonnie: diversity. Lonnie: She was the diversity officer of the University, and Lonnie: so, since she was an associate Lonnie: provost for

00:35:23.090 - 00:35:55.450

Lonnie: diversity, I wouldn't call it that then, I can't remember what it was. But anyway, she would come and bug me forever about 'Why aren't you admitting more African American students?" Lonnie: and Lonnie: I said, 'well we want to admit students who can succeed and we're recruiting as hard as we can to bring students in'. And she wouldn't back back off. She kept coming over. So we sat down, and and I said, 'Well, let's let this' or maybe she did Lonnie: and work out a way to find out whether there are students who can succeed that we are not admitting.

00:35:56.070 - 00:36:18.180

Lonnie: and that sounded like a wonderful idea to me. So, so we started, but you know that Lonnie: Towson is a big school, and even when it was smaller Lonnie: the admissions offices read those essays and they look at all these things, but Lonnie: when it comes down to it, except for certain exceptions,

00:36:18.440 - 00:36:45.390

Lonnie: the students are admitted based on the test scores, the SAT score and their grades high school grades. Lonnie: That's the, yup, So Lonnie: I said, 'why don't we go back and look at every student who's ever been...' We looked at... the University kept, I guess they still do, an application file. And all this wonderful data on every aspect of that student's life Lonnie: high school students life or transfer students

00:36:45.670 - 00:37:23.240

Lonnie: we just use the the great point average and the SAT. Lonnie: And the question is, 'how well, are we doing a good job of looking at those 2 statistics to predict whether they can be successful?'. Lonnie: So we went back and... I know I drove the institutional research folks nuts, because I would keep going back for more data. And what we ended up doing is taking, we went back years, many years and Lonnie: collected data from the applicant pool. We collected it on students who were admitted. and students who enrolled. And then we added data.

00:37:23.270 - 00:37:57.350

Lonnie: I got to be an expert, not an expert, but I get pretty good with SPSS. And then the last couple of years I was at Towson, they changed to SAZZ, which is a a different Lonnie: statistical package and I couldn't use any of it so I had to give it somebody else. But anyway, we started looking at that data, and Lonnie: we found out that there were students Lonnie: ... who had come here with certain profile. Oh, I put all the data in the form of an admissions grid.

00:37:57.620 - 00:38:22.240

Lonnie: I don't know what machine the admissions office used, but they have a grid that has the Lonnie: great point average across the top Lonnie: in sections, and the SAT scores. Lonnie: So you had this cross tabulation and... then they make decision based on experience. Which students, which of these cells

00:38:22.550 - 00:38:46.080

Lonnie: ...was successful. And then they determined ... who they where going to admit. Lonnie: and thats we get our number, because Lonnie: all in those years I was associate vice President Lonnie: Towson was designated as the Growth Institution because there was this demographic coming. A lot of students and the schools, other schools couldn't

00:38:46.100 - 00:39:14.870

Lonnie: college park didn't want to grow that much, and because they wanted to stay selective, and the other schools didn't have the room to grow, but Towson and Salisbury could could grow and take it. Lonnie: But Salisbury had some limit on how much they could grow. So it's going to be us. So Lonnie: So my charge, then, was to to enroll, to keep admitting students who can be successful Lonnie: and grow, and how we kind of know who we successful. So we went. We got all this, this data

00:39:15.030 - 00:39:51.430

Lonnie: and changed the admissions grid to centiles. So it's have a hex, a whole tenth of the population by grade point average in... tenths Lonnie: ...but Lonnie: then you could, you know it's a tremendous amount of great, I'm getting too much into the nitty gritty of this, I'll make it go faster, they Lonnie: when we started pulling that data we noticed that there were students who were successful, who graduated in very high percentages

00:39:51.630 - 00:40:31.950

Lonnie: in cells that we weren't admitting anymore. And that's crazy. And they were about 60% African American students in those sells we weren't admitting. Lonnie: And there I'm been pushed bring more students in, and not just from from Camille, but for the President. So that that was our charge. And and so we came up with ways that we, we admitted students. Oh, but, there's so much grade inflation going on, we had to... put them in the centile. So we had to. Lonnie: you couldn't compare the 1975 Lonnie: class grade point average with later, because

00:40:32.070 - 00:41:25.140

Lonnie: the high school started putting, students were coming in with with 4.3, because they were in in advance placement courses. So they were, you know. So it's, just polluted all that kind of data. But if we put it in, put them into Lonnie: centiles... ww were getting the same group of students. We're getting students with the same comparative SAT and GPA. So we pop, we put that together, we start admitting students. Lonnie: And and we had to wait 6 years. But we actually we can see it with our retention rates in the first year. And they started. So year after year, graduation rates went up, and I can't remember the exact years and if you go back and just look at the at the you see tables of our graduation rates and they, Lonnie: one year,

00:41:25.290 - 00:42:08.790

Lonnie: I should remember what that year was. But, in one year the graduation rate of African American students with it was, it was improving faster, and and that they were and no, no, we had really good students, student services, and a lot of changes that would've impacted this. But Lonnie: most of the difference was who we admitted and who we deny, and we denied students that are capable. So if you, if you go look at that data. Then you're going to see that they constantly get better and better. And they went down Lonnie: because we had a, we had a program called the Top 10, that the University of Texas did it. Lonnie: and the Provost wanted us to do that. So we did. And I was all for it, because it's depending on grade point average

00:42:08.900 - 00:42:43.310

Lonnie: and not SATs. Well, it turns out that most it's done in Baltimore City and in Baltimore County and in the areas where the students living in poverty with the schools where 80 to 90% students below the, from families below the poverty level. Lonnie: They just didn't have skills. So if we weren't looking at Lonnie: at the SATs, we didn't know Lonnie: that they it's a so much. So then we're, this is a couple of years before I, I'm retired, I've retired actually.

00:42:43.730 - 00:43:30.560

Lonnie: okay, cause I got sick. But, that is the greatest disappointment that I know it's I think you're probably still doing something like that. So so we we're probably okay. Lonnie: That was my greatest satisfaction and my greatest disappointment. That's it. Sorry to take so long. Firebaugh, Bethany: No, it's okay. I was actually reading about this student retention program a little bit. So I know that was something that Towson was working to implement. Firebaugh, Bethany: So my next question is, what drove you to stay in the University's employment for the majority of your career? Because I know, as I mentioned earlier, you worked for the University for 42 years. Correct?

00:43:31.910 - 00:43:54.220

Lonnie: Yes, and it wouldn't fire me, so I guess I loved it! I knew what I was doing Lonnie: so and it was, you know it it was. We had Lonnie: really high turnover, Provost, and the President and I were staying there for, you. but then he got sick. but Lonnie: that was, that was

00:43:55.830 - 00:44:21.610

Lonnie: good years. So Firebaugh, Bethany: So this includes the other branches that you've worked, in an additional to disabled student services, where there any general services that you wish you could have implemented, but didn't have the chance to do so? Lonnie: Well, I wish we could have done more for Lonnie: disabled students. We

00:44:22.020 - 00:44:44.220

Lonnie: eventually did, the university started plenty. But we have, we Lonnie: I was never, it was never, technically part of our responsibilities..., Lonnie: but everybody in residence wanted to do. And then it became, that when I, when I was promoted to Lonnie: Associate Vice President,

00:44:44.260 - 00:45:00.930

Lonnie: of Lonnie: student services. And then Lonnie: I, we can make it. We can make it a permanent responsibility of somebody, and that's why I hired Lynne Lonnie: and we set up that office.

00:45:02.210 - 00:45:49.150

Firebaugh, Bethany: And then, is there anything else that you feel is important to be shared that I did not get a question to ask about? Well, I wish I could have remembered more. It has been over 50 years! Firebaugh, Bethany: Well, I appreciate all of it like, I said. Unfortunately, there's not much documentation in the archives on any of this, so Lonnie: this was extremely helpful. You are. One thing you might try, I don't know whether, we did annual reports and I would look at the annual reports of the Lonnie: the Residence Department in

00:45:49.290 - 00:46:16.460

Lonnie: the early seventies. 70 to 75 and then it's Lonnie: check and see if they had once Lonnie: Lynne had an apartment that they should have been, Lonnie: it should have been out annual reports. And so that's a lot of work you might need some other students working on that to go through all those departments.

00:46:16.670 - 00:46:46.490

Lonnie: And I don't know what is there, is the tower light indexed? Firebaugh, Bethany: Yes, the Towerlight, a lot of the articles from Towerlight have been uploaded online into the digital archives. So they're all searchable. Lonnie: Good. You might find something there, because it was, we tried to plug it Firebaugh, Bethany: I did find quite a bit of information in the Towerlight articles.

00:46:46.580 - 00:47:02.830

Firebaugh, Bethany: And is there anyone else that you think we should talk to regarding these, this topic. Lonnie: oh, Tracy Miller. Firebaugh, Bethany: Tracy Miller! Lonnie: she's no longer at university, but she's

00:47:02.950 - 00:47:27.440

Lonnie: hangs around a lot. So you should locate her.She's probably Lonnie: in the the faculty administrator organizations retired. Firebaugh, Bethany: I will have to look her up. Lonnie: and I'll think of some.

00:47:28.210 - 00:47:57.360

Lonnie: I'll think about Lonnie: some of my retired colleagues and see Firebaugh, Bethany: if that would behelpful to you. Firebaugh, Bethany: Well, thank you. I really appreciate you taking time out of your day to meet with us, and I'm sorry that we were not able to go through all 42 years of your legacy at Towson, but I appreciate you giving up your time to answer these questions.

00:47:57.830 - 00:48:41.270

Firebaugh, Bethany: You'd be numb by the time I finished this. Lonnie: but, I tried Firebaugh, Bethany: thank you for taking the time to talk to us, and if you think of anything else, and have any other questions feel free to reach out to either me or Ashley. And if you're interested in the work that we've been doing this summer, my research and other 2 research assistance stuff should be up on the website in August or hopefully, September. Firebaugh, Bethany: it'll be on the archive website under the Unearthing TU History tab.

00:48:46.520 - 00:49:04.920

Lonnie: I will, thank you. Firebaugh, Bethany: of course. Any questions, concerns comments, before Firebaugh, Bethany: before we log off. Lonnie: No, it but I will, I'll see if I come up with some of the names I couldn't remember that we went through and send them to you

00:49:05.050 - 00:49:15.420

Firebaugh, Bethany: well, thank you, I appreciate it, and it was wonderful to meet you, and I'm glad I got to hear about some pieces of your legacy here. Lonnie: Thanks. Firebaugh, Bethany: of course.