Interview with Linda Morris and Judith Ann Graves

Ashley Todd-Diaz: All right now we're good to go. Allyn Lawrence: hello, my name is Alan Lawrence today's date is July 14 2022 i'm here with Linda Morris and Judith and capital grapes. Allyn Lawrence: And we are interested in talking with them and recording an oral history as part of our unearthing Towson's History project. Allyn Lawrence: which seeks to uncover and understand Towson's history of diversity and the segregation.

Allyn Lawrence: We are particularly interested in learning what you to experience during your time at Thompson and how you remember, and feel about the College, before we begin, we would like to verify that you received the oral history release form, you are okay with us recording this. Allyn Lawrence: Oral history and we may also take a few notes, as you speak, we have approximately 15 questions to ask you, regarding your time and experience that house and state college in 1960s, do you have any further questions before we begin, I. Linda Morris: know we can turn our phones off. Linda Morris: Go ahead.

Okay. Linda Morris: i'm right there. Linda Morris: Okay. Linda Morris: sorry about that.

Allyn Lawrence: Okay. Allyn Lawrence: um So my first question um well is so Linda if I have this correct you came to tell son in the fall of 1964 1965 1965 as a freshman and Judith when did you. Come 2019 62. Allyn Lawrence: Okay, so my first question for you both is why did you choose to study at coulson.

Linda Morris: well. Linda Morris: I didn't really choose my mama chose, for me, she. Linda Morris: She out I got accepted at South and Morgan. Linda Morris: But because integrations you won't need to go to townson.

Linda Morris: So that's why I went to town. Linda Morris: She thought I would do better, I would get better you know better job whatever so that's why I went to townson. Linda Morris: Now it, I think the reason our mother insane with me, she wanted me to go to tell some to but her thing was that she had gone to Douglas haskell thurgood Marshall. Linda Morris: going to Douglas high school, a few years ahead of her and she was very proud of his accomplishments and his accomplishment with.

Linda Morris: The brown board brown versus Board of education decision, and she I think she believed that we needed to support his work as much as we could so she chose to she chose for us to go to integrated schools, because thurgood Marshall had had had a cheap there for us. Allyn Lawrence: mm hmm. Linda Morris: Because we basically have both of us what the integrated schools, once the war, you know brown versus Board of education started so um. Linda Morris: Can you repeat that, because we lived in cherry Hill and once they informed us that we could go to integrating schools and that's what happened we didn't go I didn't finish it cherry hill I went to grade school and West point.

Linda Morris: Which is harder. Linda Morris: Baltimore. Allyn Lawrence: mm hmm. Linda Morris: But I finished at at 159 in cherry hill she Let me finish my school and in cherry Hill and then I went on to an integrated junior high school garrison junior high.

Linda Morris: And graduated from Edmonson high school. Allyn Lawrence: What were you planning to study, when you arrived at Towson. Linda Morris: Well, basically. Linda Morris: I really wasn't thinking about what I wanted to study and I basically want to be a secretary but.

Linda Morris: He said no, so when when I went to South and I said, well, maybe a teacher or something in psychology so I basically majored in psychology and i'm thinking well, maybe I might teach later. Linda Morris: So. Linda Morris: And when I came I had been accepted at the University of Maryland and I really wanted to go to university of Maryland because I wanted to live in a dormitory and but we couldn't afford it. Linda Morris: And I had been.

Linda Morris: Given a scholarship to a school in Pennsylvania, I think, was muhlenberg college, but my mother didn't want me to go to Pennsylvania to live, you know, to live that far away from home. Linda Morris: So when I came to, and the reason I want to go to Maryland is because I wanted to study journalism and but Towson didn't have Thompson was basically a teacher's college. Linda Morris: yeah it had just started adding some liberal arts courses, so I decided that I would study sociology. Allyn Lawrence: Okay.

Allyn Lawrence: um so you mentioned that you couldn't go to you empty, because you couldn't afford the dorm so were you commuter students to TAO Sir or. Linda Morris: Yes, yeah okay. Linda Morris: I had the car well the first year, you can tell by to have you got all the first year I click bus took me a dream cars three cars good number eight number eight. Linda Morris: So the first year I could well all during my use I put the number is three car no you didn't because I had the car and I know, but I was just about finished that one year oh you're right so so for three years, you did i'm sorry we just beat her life.

Linda Morris: So I was on the street COP car and so um I had to it took about an. hour to get there. Linda Morris: From where i'm from where I live, and I remember starting out early in the morning and I around six o'clock but sometimes you get eight o'clock classes and then writing to the school. Linda Morris: But basically walk away students about six blocks the wasn't me I had to walk down the street.

Linda Morris: But it wasn't too bad was a mother gave me a whistle so. Linda Morris: i've been used the woods. Allyn Lawrence: Which is. Linda Morris: When I came, I had a car, so I just drove in the last year Judy and I, and I drove my friends who went to Morgan, so I would drop them off in the morning I go to school and then after my classes, I would go back to Morgan for my social work.

Allyn Lawrence: So did you enjoy being commuter students were most of the people commuting at that time, would you say or. Allyn Lawrence: yeah. Linda Morris: yeah yeah something near some people lived on the door and i'm trying to only one who was only one for me now maybe your class was different, but in my class there was one person sheila Jackson, I think, her name was. Linda Morris: Because at the time we had all we counted everybody, there were 30 black student it wasn't that many when I would say.

Linda Morris: Right, by the time I got there, there were 30 black students and I only knew of the one who lived in the dorm and that was sheila Jackson, I think it was only about can when I when when that many like students. Linda Morris: But then, how many leads in the door, and in about two or three because they get hit something. Allyn Lawrence: So my next question is um did you hear about house and having a certain reputation before you arrived like a reputation for black students were you scared entering the College as young black females or were you. Linda Morris: know I didn't know anything.

Linda Morris: About mm. Linda Morris: hmm no we just knew it was in baltimore county yeah. Okay. Allyn Lawrence: Okay, so when you finally arrived.

Allyn Lawrence: On campus and you began taking classes what were your initial impressions about the racial climate on campus. Linda Morris: Well, basically, I didn't have a real problem. Linda Morris: fitting in and there were some people who were friendly and some people who weren't. Linda Morris: And so I you know I just accept people for who they were, and I just did what I had to do so.

Linda Morris: Well, my experience was a little different I never had anybody who was overtly unfriendly nobody ever called me a name or anything like that, but when we would go to the students Center. Linda Morris: and sit at a table with white students, the White students would get up they you know they would just get up and move somewhere else to another table so as we. Linda Morris: We got used to that we just use that as a mechanism to have our own table, so if we knew we wanted to get together at a certain time we can we'd send one of us a head to sit at a table and the white students would get up and then we would have the table to ourselves. Linda Morris: So that's how so it was it was a cold campus for me that's why I ended up always going over to Morgan.

Linda Morris: In the afternoons after I would schedule, most of my classes early so that I could go over to Morgan and I participated in a lot of the social events that they had so much so, the people thought I went to more than they thought I graduated. Linda Morris: I guess it wasn't like that, for me, I guess, with the black students and then because we usually talk with each other and support each other, so I, and then the white students. Linda Morris: I didn't I didn't feel that way you know yeah we weren't close as a unit, the blacks the 30 of us who were there we were close as a unit, we would try to help each other i'd give people rides. Linda Morris: And, and so in we would always know where you know we're who's going to what class or who's going to be in what building to do whatever we might need done so, we did keep in close contact with each other.

Linda Morris: But that's just the way I think I don't think it's necessarily because the Environment was good, I think that's how black how we are as a race I think we're we're very closely knit once we have identified who's a part of our Community and and I met some some. Linda Morris: Especially men and women, young young people who are nice and and sort of inviting I can't say that I didn't and i'm. Linda Morris: willing to talk and sit down and talk so well, I mean there were people that you true yeah you there were wife students who would talk with you and and try to help you so it wasn't everybody, but it was just an overall. Linda Morris: The Environment, I would say it was it felt like a hostile environment because people were not openly welcoming.

Linda Morris: didn't feel like it was hospital hospital now right yeah nobody ever through any know right right not in that sense, I guess, with two different and this is why, why did you to have because her experience was different mine and I want them to have a well rounded store. Linda Morris: A well rounded experience. Linda Morris: And I guess going back and forth on the bus I you know I really didn't get to know just you know just people in the classroom and I. Linda Morris: To me, they just trying to know treat me like they want to be treated most I can say all but most of.

Allyn Lawrence: It. Linda Morris: uh huh I was just gonna say one experience I do remember it's not that great. Linda Morris: And in one of my classes, there was this unit of students who were going they were going to cheat on a test, so they all had the test and the answer somehow. Linda Morris: And so I knew that wasn't going to go well, because everything was on a on a car, and so they all they did well and then, of course I got a.

Linda Morris: Bad grade because I had to use what I had you know just the knowledge that I have so that's that's one disadvantage I don't know whether I would have cheated and i've been included, but it would have been good to be invited. yeah. Linda Morris: And then I could have decided. Allyn Lawrence: So.

Allyn Lawrence: I know you mentioned that it was well Linda you mentioned that you felt the Environment was hostile more in the social scene, was it also like that inside the classroom with professors are there, certain professors you gravitated towards other ones, you were told to avoid and. Linda Morris: Yes, I did you want to take that. Linda Morris: Well i'm trying to think back, but not professing something I you know i'm someone were over I think I had an English Professor that was but. Linda Morris: You know I I guess I just took it in stride I just the other professors that I had you know we're very inclusive, in fact, that did I make it work, study there, so they were some of them are very inclusive so and try to be very helpful so.

Linda Morris: I don't know but that's that was you know my experience, you know people yeah I had I had two experiences, I think I put an email one experience was with. Linda Morris: Dr by schlock, who was a geography professor and he saw me sitting on a bench in the hallway and he came and sat down next to me, and he told me he said to me now i'm 1819 years old, he says, you know. Linda Morris: nigra he might have said negro students because back, we were changing the terminology at that time so negro and so neighbor was acceptable, he said they usually don't do well here, usually they're saying they. Linda Morris: They fail, they flunk out with the humanities and i'm thinking you know you know, and I don't know why he would tell me that.

Linda Morris: And I did well in the humanities, because I love history, I love English I got an A in English composition, the first semester, I was there. Linda Morris: Then we had I had an experience with again Dr by slog and Dr mccleary who was teaching a class in the history and geography of Maryland and one day in class again I had to be like 19 I guess. Linda Morris: They one day in class Dr mccleary said because we're talking about marrow so he said well there are eight Negroes in Garrett county and four of those are in jail. Linda Morris: And I don't know what relevance that had to what we were discussing, but, as the only black students usually we were the only black student in the class It made me feel very uncomfortable and it also It made me angry that he would do that.

Linda Morris: too, and so um but I had some good professors, I think the English teacher, I think, her name was and. Linda Morris: compton and who gave me the a well she didn't give it to me I earned it because I had very strong English teachers in baltimore city public school, I had a very good education in baltimore city. Linda Morris: And I had graduated ninth in my class coming out of edmonton out of 900 students, so I was very confident go and you to you had been reviewed, he was. Linda Morris: Now she was she could have been the valedictorian but.

Linda Morris: In edmonton this is how this works and edmonson they decided she had the same she and another girl had the same average but they gave didn't give you a test to decide who would be saying Judy just takes this in stride. Linda Morris: But now, they gave them a test to decide who would be the valedictorian and so we're very suspicious about that, but those are the kinds of things that we experienced with black students. Linda Morris: But um I do remember that the kranzler he would George kranzler I think he was in the sociology department it down the he it was for the German promise is that what it was I knew it was something. Linda Morris: It was but yeah but anyway, Dr kranzler was very kind to me he he wanted me to go on, he told me that he could help me get a fellowship to.

Linda Morris: Foot to study a master's at Johns Hopkins but I was just so fed up with school that I because of you know, the experience that I just I said no, I don't want to go on any further and, but he was very good and. Linda Morris: He and he really helped me because, during the sophomore year I got put on academic probation that's how that first year affected me to the point that my grades went down, I think I had something like a 1.2. Linda Morris: And, and I had to really work to stay and I knew I didn't want to flunk out, so I got my pull myself back together and I managed to get out of academic probation. Allyn Lawrence: So just the environment, you when you were in was causing you.

Allyn Lawrence: To kind of how am I trying to phrase This made it harder for you to study and to do these classes. Linda Morris: You know what I think it is, and I think I can just I can figure out why we had two different experiences Judy is an infer so you know she she she stays to her. Linda Morris: I am, as you can tell, I can i'm extroverted and I need that human contact. Linda Morris: yeah so and I need to receive the energy and I need to feel the good energy and I just didn't have that energy there among the student body.

Allyn Lawrence: mm hmm. Allyn Lawrence: So were you able to join any clubs or did you partake in any student activities or did you mainly do that at Morgan. Linda Morris: With all, no, no cuz basic month My concern was just you know, trying to stay there. Linda Morris: So I didn't know if join any clubs.

Linda Morris: I did do like I said I did do work, study in the psychology department that was about it. Linda Morris: Just around a little bit of money on the side, and then I I worked during the summons them. Linda Morris: Five and dime store I don't think they hear those me when I worked on songs that have been done so just to you know earn money for my tuition. Linda Morris: Okay, now I did, I would say that I did participate, but that's how I got to you at the reunion that I attended the 50th reunion i'm felicity.

Linda Morris: Shared a VIP not the video, but she shared the fact that Dr Whitney look like after he was Mr leblanc then Whitney along. Linda Morris: The head done in oral history, and so, once I saw his oral history, I, and I did several things with Mr leblanc the he was the first black teacher at town. Linda Morris: And in the he came that semester, that I was on or either F of SMS is on academic probation and I was so glad to see him, he was like a lifeline. Linda Morris: And so I took every day, he was in the theater department.

Linda Morris: I took every class he taught I also the first year I was in the play he talks about in his oral history, the arm. Linda Morris: He was doing a play called and people all around it was a play about the civil rights movement and the murder of the three civil rights workers in in Mississippi I don't think it was about that specifically but it. Allyn Lawrence: Was. Linda Morris: It was the the material was similar to that, so I am so I had a small part and he needed another black.

Linda Morris: person to take a Parts I got my girlfriend from Morgan, to take a part in it and. Linda Morris: We were very happy because we would come and rehearse and Mr leblanc is just so live, he was just larger than life, he just He really did a service for me 1000 I took his. Linda Morris: history of the theater course he taught a course and stage craft where you made the stage the sets and you put them up and he needed someone he was doing. Linda Morris: That was the merchant of Venice and so he needed someone it was going to be outside and what's it called the Glen.

Linda Morris: Is outside and he needed someone to go up in a tree to wire to to to put a wire on a piece of the set that needed to be held, and I have never in my life before climbed the tree. Linda Morris: When I raised my Oh, I can do it and I go up in the tree and I didn't realize, you have bugs in the tree and everything was in dirt and everything I got all scratched up and I was determined I was going to do that for Mr blah blah. Linda Morris: I was just so thrilled to have him and so that probably my. Linda Morris: Being in that play, and we had my girlfriend and I had no idea about the clan activity that Mr leblanc discussed in his interview so.

Linda Morris: I came home and pulled up the article from the baltimore sun and it did talk about the clan marching about that way. Linda Morris: But that was probably the most that I ever did in will, except for going up in the bell tower that time, yes, and I graduate when Julie graduated they needed someone to ring the bell 100 times because she was in the centennial class the 819 66 in class. Linda Morris: And so they got one of the students Calvin Jones who was on work, study and he saw me going to judy's graduation, and my white dress I was dressed all in my Sunday best because the direct. Linda Morris: graduation was on a Sunday, I believe, and so he needed someone to help him count to 100 while he's ringing the bell.

Linda Morris: And so I just said okay i'll do it i'm just kind of impulsive like that wasn't thinking he I am was white dress like she's gonna in the towel was very dusty. Linda Morris: But it was a beautiful view of the campus once I got up there, and I, I had to climb up, we have to pull down some steps climb up a ladder then go up some wrongs that were bolted into the wall, but I made it up. Linda Morris: And I counted the hundred rings of the bell, so I will always remember that about has those are good memories that I. Linda Morris: Am from the town.

Allyn Lawrence: That sounds like an incredible experience I wish I could have been able to do that. Linda Morris: Really, to see towels and from there into overlook the graduation, you know and see everybody right I couldn't hear what was going on, or anything but. Linda Morris: It was just you know and and Calvin was hit this line, because here, I am in my I had a white straw hat on and widespread my hair. Linda Morris: And my men, and it was a minute hackman then and Jesse said oh my that must have been some he said something like lady liberty didn't have anything on us okay okay.

Linda Morris: But it was such a wonderful that was a wonderful experience. Allyn Lawrence: Now, if you don't mind me, bringing it back to Mr leblanc. Allyn Lawrence: Just he was an incredible man, I had, I felt so honored to talk with him and and learn from him um my question for you is how do you think. Allyn Lawrence: The general student body perceived him as the first black Professor on campus and how did you perceive them and did he teach you any lessons that you took on later in life.

Linda Morris: yeah I didn't have no. Linda Morris: I didn't. know she. Linda Morris: I don't know that he i'm sure he did, but I was just so enamored because he was young, he was handsome I mean I was just just real and he was glad I was thrilled to have him there.

Linda Morris: i'm sure he imparted some knowledge to me, and particularly about the theater now that that that class the history of the theater class got me I was thinking about the theater for a while, but he was just so magnetic and. Linda Morris: That he was just very influential in pulling me out of that hole I had done myself getting on academic probation, so I will always be grateful to him for that, because he gave I think I gotta be in the history of the theater. Linda Morris: And I think I got a mighty dionysian stage craft a mass sure, but I also and that's Another thing I took speech as we had to take that was a mandatory for speech. Linda Morris: speech from him and one Professor I think her name I can't remember her name Schwartz pearls was to wanted me to take remedial speech and I wasn't I didn't want to take for me to speak so I was glad to be able to take the speech class with Mr law.

Allyn Lawrence: Okay. Allyn Lawrence: My next question for both of you is Do you remember any monumental events on campus that you participated in or were there any events that you think change the mood on campus such as Martin Luther King junior's assassination. um. Linda Morris: yeah I was there, then you were you then 68 you at last night on i'm right, I was there and I think I went to the.

Linda Morris: Kennedy assassination 62 in November 62 okay we'll talk about that because everybody was just saying, I think we they send us home early. Allyn Lawrence: mm hmm. Linda Morris: So um you know that was yeah I remember that one but um other than that I can't remember anything else you know just the Kennedy assassination would have been with us 6363 hours something yeah okay. Linda Morris: Tom and I was there after the King riots and I remember class Dr toland criminology class I was taking that I.

Linda Morris: didn't you do it because you went all around well when the riots were going on, I did do a paper, I did, now that you, yes, and my brother had been given an eight millimeter film camera. Linda Morris: For his his Chris for Christmas. Linda Morris: And I was that and that particular Sunday the Sunday of the right because it lasted maybe three days to three days over the weekend I think and. Linda Morris: I went out to film The miss some of the neighborhoods as they were burning and a police officer, they have put there was a curfew and I think it was a four o'clock curfew.

Linda Morris: And I was out in the police officer told me that I had to go home. Linda Morris: And I think I got smart with the police officer. Linda Morris: And so, but so he may have said something to him, but he told me, I had to go, so I went home, and I was telling my parents and I told my father, I said now officer told me, I have to leave and some my father said, and he was right, you should have left my parents were very. Linda Morris: They taught us to respect authority so for the most part, I did respect authority, but that particular day I wanted to get closer, so I feel.

Linda Morris: I was doing my paper and so anyway, so when I went back to school, the first whenever first the first day was. Linda Morris: I was in the sociology class Dr tolan sociology class and he was going around the room asking students, how they felt and I wasn't really going to say anything. Linda Morris: I don't know if he asked how they felt he may have asked what. Linda Morris: You know if they had anything to say, maybe so there's this one guy and I met him, later on, I knew him, I know what I met him later on when I went to work for the Federal Government.

Linda Morris: And he this person became an administrative judge for the equal employment opportunity Commission. Linda Morris: And I worked for them too, and I really thought about what he had said that day, and I could not reconcile the fact that this person who have said, these things became an administrative judge to adjudicate discrimination complaint. Linda Morris: But anyway, what he did was in part, so maybe he changed over the years. Linda Morris: But he started talking about how Oh, we give them talking about black people we give them training we give them this we give them that and they do this to us that attitude.

Linda Morris: That we we had done all of this after we had been given so much, and I remember I just couldn't sit there anyone I just stood up and said, well, we don't want you to give us a damn thing we just want what is rightfully ours. Linda Morris: Okay, and so I knew well I wasn't that great and print criminology so I knew my grade and gone at that point and and I got it but but it wasn't because I did, that it was because I earned the file definitely I did because I just wasn't. Linda Morris: I wasn't going to class and after that I really didn't go to class because it just made me angry so that's the experience that I have after the King assassination. Linda Morris: She wrote a paper.

Linda Morris: I did miss the craft that the kranzler gave me an A on that paper Yes, he did. Allyn Lawrence: you've mentioned a few times about these comments that professors made to you that were just hostile and rude and all these negative words, did you often take a stand when they said that did you take it silently or. Linda Morris: How did buck student to this silently. Linda Morris: What could I say.

Linda Morris: You know I took that finally, and maybe that's why I kind of blew up by the time does the time the king's assassination was I was a junior. Linda Morris: So maybe I just couldn't take anymore, but I just took it because I didn't know exactly what what they were doing what I think they were trying to do was to just undermined my confidence. Linda Morris: And so, no I didn't say anything now the one time I did say something to an official Dean Murphy oriol Murphy was the dean of student at the time. Linda Morris: And when I was when we were rehearsing for Mr leblanc play, we would get out maybe 10 o'clock we would get out late because rehearsals were after the school day, so I started to park my car right in front on the side of stephens hall.

Linda Morris: And I got a ticket, so I went to D Murphy, to try to explain to her, the reason I practice that I did not feel safe walking down to the parking lot, which was down by like really, really tall used to be, I don't know if you remember, because it's not. Linda Morris: But like really tall was down by burden call and I didn't feel comfortable walking down to the parking lot at night, and so I thought she would understand and. Linda Morris: She may have been sympathetic but she said, there was nothing she could do about ticket and I had to park down on the left, there was no accommodation may for me to park closer. Linda Morris: So I resented that but um and I in fact I was so angry that I did not speak to Dean Murphy I can't remember how that manifested, but I do remember she called my mother tell her.

Linda Morris: Like I would since grade school she called my mother to tell her that I was not speaking to her, and so my mother made me go back and apologize to Dean Murphy because, again, they were very. Linda Morris: They wanted us to respect authority, and I think now that i'm an adult I think that was the right thing to do, I think it was the right thing to do. Allyn Lawrence: yeah I remember Mr leblanc during his oral history mentioned he had problems with parking as well. Linda Morris: The police that will get you a good.

Allyn Lawrence: um Okay, so my next question for both of you is how did you feel about graduating from Tulsa. Linda Morris: Well, I. Linda Morris: I well I just I guess I just took it in stride you know, I was just glad to graduate you know and. Linda Morris: Because.

Linda Morris: I had worked so hard to get through. Linda Morris: That I was just glad when everything was over, and I was able to go out and do what I wanted to do, and you know make my own money do what I I. Linda Morris: Just explore and see what I what kind of job. Linda Morris: So for me townson was just a tool.

Linda Morris: To get what I wanted to do get through what I want to do and what did you end up doing teaching. Linda Morris: Well, well, I well the first teaching and then going into social work. Linda Morris: Now, with me graduation was a sore spot I had to go to summer school, which meant that I was kicked into the class from the class of 69 into the class of 1970. Linda Morris: And at the time I was upset because I had skipped A grade in school, so I was very proud of the fact that I had skipped A grade and would be graduating early.

Linda Morris: So what this meant was that, by going into the class of 1970 I was graduating at the same time, I would have graduated had a MAC skip the worry, so I did not. Linda Morris: Go to the graduation why couldn't go to 69 I did not come back for the 1970 graduation, I did not even pace, I wouldn't even want to pay for my diploma. Linda Morris: And I didn't find out till after my mother died that she had paid for my diploma I found the diploma in her chest. Linda Morris: In this she had this chest of things that were important to her and I found the diploma in this chest that my mother has so she had paid for the diploma so but it back end because I found it that way, the diploma has a special.

Linda Morris: significance to. Linda Morris: determine. Linda Morris: we're going to finish, she was my mother, my both my parents my mom and dad were determined that we weren't going to go to college. Allyn Lawrence: And what were each of your favorite parts about passing or favorite memories if if that's better.

Linda Morris: Well, I think, when I was doing work, study. Linda Morris: I enjoyed working with the staff there. Linda Morris: and Linda Morris: Just being part of the group there, and you know because, basically, I wasn't part of anything but when I became when I worked in the work, study group I became part they knew me and they.

Linda Morris: told me, and so I was I enjoyed that it was in the psychology department. Linda Morris: So I enjoy working with the staff here. Linda Morris: And my favorite part would be gone to the student union and the the cook staff because the cook stamp, where do I remember, Mrs Mrs the cook. Linda Morris: You know you go and you place your order and she could really go again burgers Fries or whatever, and so being able to be with them.

Linda Morris: That that really helped to get me through so my That was my favorite part of the day, to be able to go to the student union and to be with the cook staff and get my burgers and Fries and and. Linda Morris: You know, feel feel and Oh, and they had just started what was this so far, because I used to go to the student union and watch. Linda Morris: Days of our lives, I think that started when when I was there, back in the mates it had to be the early 70s, like not Muslim the late 60s, they were yeah yeah, so I would go and watch the soap opera and then talk to Mrs in the club staff. Allyn Lawrence: And after listening to you both say your favorite memories, it sounds like a common theme is just finding a community within.

Linda Morris: The call is. Allyn Lawrence: Finding a place where you felt included and belonged and could enjoy your time and it. Linda Morris: is very good assessment. Allyn Lawrence: i'm glad you both were able to.

Linda Morris: find your place and friends, I met some lowest there and I met a mother personally or so it's, not that I didn't have any friends, when I did have what I call more associates that you could talk not so. Linda Morris: You have one song, I found it interesting, I really do I can't say that I didn't like it, it was just part of my life. Allyn Lawrence: mm hmm. Allyn Lawrence: Then you skewered.

Allyn Lawrence: Did you keep in touch with many of the people you met at Towson. Linda Morris: I we may have in the very beginning, we did remember how we went to the marty's party that's in the in the beginning, we did. Linda Morris: But then we lost touch maybe after three or four years because you know, everybody was starting their own lives, people were going off getting married and so forth, so we haven't had touch with people over the years. Allyn Lawrence: My next question is for you, Linda and it's what led us to get in contact with.

Allyn Lawrence: You what led you to attend the 50th anniversary, for her was it for your class you're graduating. Linda Morris: Well, within remember that didn't consider that my graduating class, but when I got it. Linda Morris: Something just said it was well, first of all, it was such a simple program i'm on my high school reunion committee and everything is so complicated, we always have these elaborate programs, and so I said oh wow this is real simple, it would be nice to go to something simple and. Linda Morris: And I went in the first day there, the first dinner that Sam because when I first went and I called God, I was sitting in the garage because the reunion was in was the built the new building.

Linda Morris: Was not new way anyway, the dinner was there, but they were having the bus tour, so I parked in the garage and I sat and I called Judy and I was telling her how all these emotions were coming on and I didn't realize they were there I hit bird. Linda Morris: And I don't know how I can do this, and so I had to get myself together and I got on the bus. Linda Morris: And they taught the campus now that was good, because I didn't know the House and had grown so they were over in the other side of tell some town boulevard at the siku Center and showing us everything but the people on the bus or a little rowdy and it was taking me back. Linda Morris: To the people in the student Union.

Linda Morris: And, as they were talking about all the panty raise and we did this and and it just kind of took me back so that affected me a little bit negative. Linda Morris: But um, but when I got to the dinner, there was a young girl and her father there. Linda Morris: For the dinner, and I was walking into the dinner and her I heard her voice behind me said, would you like to sit with us and just that simple, as it kind of turned my whole attitude around. Linda Morris: And so, as a whole, I guess, I could, and I sat with her and her dad and dad was talking about me it wasn't like it was they were overly she was very friendly, but then I understood because she's in an occupation she's like a social worker in a school for.

Linda Morris: In Howard county and she deals with interventions with troubled students so she was used to dealing with black people and so. Linda Morris: her father was he was friendly enough, you know wasn't like and so he was talking that he was talking to her, and they would chat and then he would talk to me, and we would just exchanged some things some memories and. Linda Morris: But her simple act of saying, would you like to sit with us that made all the difference in the world, and so my attitude changed at that point and. Linda Morris: And then, of course, when for listening did her presentation, so it got better, but the thing it just was that it was just a simple way and I was free that weekend I said i'm just gonna go and i'm really glad I did, because it has reconciled all the bad feelings.

Linda Morris: That I did. Linda Morris: So, so now I don't have that to deal with anymore, because that was taking up a lot of space. mm. Linda Morris: hmm.

Allyn Lawrence: that's beautiful, thank you for sharing. Allyn Lawrence: um OK, so my last question is Is there anyone else we should talk to any names, we should know or. Linda Morris: I asked. Linda Morris: Oh, goodness, who is Gemma, the the event organizer at X time if she had if they didn't find students who were who attended and I was really anxious to see if Calvin Jones was still.

Linda Morris: Whether he's still living, you know what he's done if they had information for him, because we have people like Calvin Jones we have a CEO daily notes and Milton duggar yes Milton duggar is very he's he's two years, and he asked, I emailed him the other day he. Linda Morris: He had a very active life, he wasn't a politician, but he was very involved in baltimore city schools so Milton duggar. Linda Morris: Oh Cathy case I forgot about her but seeing that she may have been in Mayra daily my reminder of them i'm a CEO and Mayra we're sister and brother i'm rose I can't remember well since last night, you remember rose. Linda Morris: And there is Linda word Linda bird came there and I met her at eat again at ios when I went to work their.

Linda Morris: butts house and I have to find out if it did it gave me a well rounded. Education. Linda Morris: and Linda Morris: I was able to do a lot with it, I went to work for the Federal Government started out as a social worker in baltimore city and then I became an equal employment opportunity specialist that that was created when the 1964 civil rights as.

Linda Morris: Well, as that occupation. Linda Morris: And so I got into that and then eventually I went to the national institutes of health, where I retired from there, as the equal employment opportunity discrimination complaints manager so. Linda Morris: i've had a very good professional life as a result of my education at house. Allyn Lawrence: mm hmm.

Allyn Lawrence: Thank you, I wrote some of those names you both for mentioning down. Allyn Lawrence: Well, that will help us um. Allyn Lawrence: Do you both have any final comments or anything else you would like to say I mean. i'm out of questions.

Linda Morris: Why, I want to thank you all for doing these oral histories, because it's so important that people have first hand accounts of how. Linda Morris: How how life was how people were treated and, as you can see, we all have it's not a monolith the way people react to situations is different and it just depends on your makeup. Linda Morris: And and just a lot of other things other factors so but i'm very pleased to know that you're doing these oral histories now what well. Linda Morris: Now that what will, how will they be packaged that's what i'm in how will they be announced, how will they be used.

Allyn Lawrence: Okay um so so we're recording this. Allyn Lawrence: zoom call and then. Allyn Lawrence: we're going to send it to a transcription company and then they'll. Allyn Lawrence: make a transcription so we'll have pages, so people can read them, as well as follow, along with the.

Allyn Lawrence: Video and we do post them to the archives. Allyn Lawrence: Page online and we're still in the process of trying to to spread the word about this, I know, there was talked before about posting mentions of it in the alumni magazine. Allyn Lawrence: But also Ashley and felicity are working and one of my old professors Dr Christian coat are working to spread the word about this to other departments as well, because the history department has gotten involved in so as the. Allyn Lawrence: Diversity.

Allyn Lawrence: i'm forgetting. Linda Morris: Ashley you maybe know the. Allyn Lawrence: names for this, but the diversity. Ashley Todd-Diaz: Inclusion institute's.

Allyn Lawrence: Yes, yes. Allyn Lawrence: We have someone from there, working with us as well, but yeah that's what we're doing. Ashley Todd-Diaz: And I can say, as I mentioned a little earlier our classes are utilizing the oral histories, for their research projects and to better understand houses history and. Ashley Todd-Diaz: Their place within our campus community, so the this project is a few years old, at this point, but it's gaining more and more awareness and more traction.

Ashley Todd-Diaz: And we're hoping to be able to fill in the gaps and silences in our history as much as possible. Linda Morris: So, so, so this is a project of the library, or is the archive separate from the library. Ashley Todd-Diaz: We are within the library so it's a. Ashley Todd-Diaz: yeah so we were under the the dean of the library.

Ashley Todd-Diaz: But it's a project that was initially started between myself and the Center for student diversity and then it got more visibility and the president's office provided some funding for us to hire student assistance and in bold bigger programs so. Linda Morris: I think it's going to be significant i'm glad you're doing this. Linda Morris: And I am going to send you ought to have told alley I was going to send her a copy of my book, I sent it and the. Linda Morris: Post Office screwed up.

Linda Morris: The delivery I don't think you can I didn't arrive at testing I think jenna got hers the way because I sent a priority mail and. Linda Morris: But the one I sent to felicity I sent a copy to felicity and a copy to Alex and actually i'm going to send you one too, so if you email me the correct address, so that the post office can deliver it next time i'll send you a copy of my book on cherry hill. Linda Morris: And i'm also doing work on turn a station, the. Linda Morris: First black student was Barnes Mayra Barnes is was she had the first black one of the first black she's from terminal station so i'm trying to get to interview her.

Linda Morris: about her life Internet station, because that was a very prosperous black Community at the time, and I would like to get her experiences into So if I do by getting her into the book I also send you a copy of that but that's going to be a year before I finished that. Ashley Todd-Diaz: That would be wonderful. Ashley Todd-Diaz: And, did you. Ashley Todd-Diaz: hear the the University has named one of our dorms after.

Linda Morris: Yes, I was so pleased to hear that for the first two black women there, yes, and I was able to see that site on the bus tour I know where it was yes uh huh. Ashley Todd-Diaz: I was, I had the honor of being on the committee that made those recommendations so. Ashley Todd-Diaz: Oh, I was very pleased as well. Linda Morris: That goes a long way that really does go a long way to to to healing and to reconciling the past it really does.

I agree. Linda Morris: We just want to thank both of you for taking the time to interview Judy didn't want to do it, but I told her, she claims she couldn't remember anything but I said no, your story is important. Allyn Lawrence: yeah thank you both so much it was so nice to talk to you. Linda Morris: And thank you for interviewing as Ali, I really liked your interview style you're very good at it, so I wish you well, what are you doing now.

Linda Morris: What i'm doing now. Allyn Lawrence: So I am going to attend you md college park and get my master's in library and information science, so I. Allyn Lawrence: So I can continue to do more stuff with archives and these sort of projects and oral histories, because. Allyn Lawrence: I really do have a passion for it.

Linda Morris: It comes across in your answer revealing thank you both so much for having us. Allyn Lawrence: yeah. Linda Morris: Thank you hear. Allyn Lawrence: You to.

Linda Morris: It don't forget email me your address, as the correct way so that I can send you these books. Okay. Linda Morris: Okay. Allyn Lawrence: Have a nice day.

Linda Morris: You too bye bye. bye.