Interview with Judy Kistner

Speaker 1: Judith Richardson Kistner graduated from Towson State College in 1965 with a bachelor's degree in elementary education. Speaker 1: Mrs. Kistner taught in public and private schools for six years. She also served as a substitute teacher for 10 years. These are her reflections. Karen Blair: Mrs. Kissner, it is so nice of you to come in and spend some time this morning talking with you about your teacher preparation here at Towson University and your subsequent career. Karen Blair: I think your experiences will add a great deal to our collective understanding of teacher education at Towson across time.

Karen Blair: And I think a good place to begin is in the beginning. So, would you share with us a little bit about your early social context where you grew up? What kinds of thoughts you were having as you went through school, about what you might want to do when you graduated from high school? Judith Kistner: OK. I was born in Baltimore, in Baltimore City in 1943, May 9th of 1943 and have been in Baltimore all my life. Never lived anywhere else, moved sort of out York Rd. Was born in Waverly. I lived in Northwood after I was married and then moved to Cockeysville, and that's where I live now in Cockeysville. Judith Kistner: I went to Govans Elementary school, Woodburn Junior High the first year it opened. We were the first graduating class from Woodburn, which is now Chinkapin middle and Eastern High School, and I graduated from Eastern High School in 1961. That was a city school. All girls. Judith Kistner: The girls were at Eastern and Western and the boys were at Poly and City.

Judith Kistner: So it was a wonderful education at Eastern. I enjoyed it very, very much and looked forward to going to college. However, I have a brother who's 11 months and two weeks older than I am, and the conversation at the dinner table was he is going to be the breadwinner. So if you're going to go to college. Karen Blair: I see. Judith Kistner: And back in 1961, this is the way it was. If you're going to go to college, you better find something that's going to be a profession and career for you and that you will have a job when you graduate. Judith Kistner: So I had always enjoyed the children in the neighborhood. I was a big babysitter in the summer time I had twins. Their mother worked at the telephone company and I had them all summer long.

Karen Blair: Wow. Judith Kistner: For many, many years and I just enjoyed having them through high school and I also worked after school at Enoch Pratt Library as a page, I started that at 15 and my last year there was when I graduated from Eastern. Judith Kistner: So between the library and the children, it was between library science and teaching. Judith Kistner: And at the time, Towson had a two year payback, like the academies have, that if I went to Towson and graduated and taught for two years I had a full scholarship to Towson, as many of my friends since we were an all girls high school. They also took advantage of that. And we came to town.

Judith Kistner: And so most of my friends whom I'm still friendly with, my maid of honor and other friends, took advantage of that, and we're all still friends and we all get together and we all taught and graduated from Towson. Karen Blair: Uh huh? Karen Blair: So you decide on teaching that two year incentive is really sort of what helps you be here. Judith Kistner: Yes, definitely.

Karen Blair: Tell us a little bit about that experience. You were a commuting student, or did you live on campus? Judith Kistner: Well, since we lived in the Northwood area, my parents lived in the Northwood area, too. I was what was called a day hop. So I came to school and we didn't have too much trouble parking then. Judith Kistner: And we parked our car and went to classes and stayed here through lunch and then went home and did our studying at home. Judith Kistner: The only thing I think we really did miss was the campus life, although all of my friends and I stayed together, so we did see each other on weekends and things like that. But I think when you do that, you do miss the college life. You do miss that separation from home.

Karen Blair: I'm sure. Judith Kistner: It's more like the continuation of high school because you're home. You're doing. You're studying at home. Judith Kistner: But I think that was good for me because I'm I enjoy school and I enjoy studying and I enjoy learning and so it was fine for me to be home. I really didn't mind that too much. Karen Blair: What do you remember about the courses that you took in terms of preparation for teaching?

Karen Blair: Were those courses mainly theoretical or were they practical? Or a combination of both? Judith Kistner: I think they were a combination of both, but I think in my years they were more practical because we took our methods classes out in a school. So I was at 48 at Hollands and Fulton in Baltimore City, which was I think, the new idea for Towson too. And all of our teaching, all the teaching friends. Judith Kistner: We would go out in the morning and instead of coming to Towson, we would go to 48 and then we had our reading and methods classes out of school and then we also were- Judith Kistner: We did spend, I think it was a week at the Ridge school, so we had an opportunity to see the disabled students too if we wanted to go in that direction. So it was an interesting education.

Karen Blair: That is. That you that you actually did observe and see things. Judith Kistner: Right. We would be taught in the morning and then we go into a classroom. Judith Kistner: Yeah. And I think toward the end of our methods classes, we were teaching maybe one small class. Judith Kistner: It's kind of hard to remember that but I think we were.

Karen Blair: Well, I’m sure. Yeah. So at some point, you do student teaching and where did that happen? Judith Kistner: I did student teaching at Lutherville Elementary School in 6th grade because sixth was part of elementary. Then yes and I had Don Rollins as my supervisor and when I left my student teaching. Judith Kistner: I could go in any classroom, I think. Judith Kistner: I think that's why he trained me. I walked in. He took all the bulletin boards down and he said this is your class. So you learn quickly.

Judith Kistner: And he was very, very involved in his class, so I would stay after class and we would do preparation for the forward look for the next day and then I would go home and write my lesson plans and then turn them into him in the morning so he knew exactly what I was going to do. And then at the end of the day we would discuss what the forward look was. Judith Kistner: So I was there till about 5:30 at night, 5 or 6 at night during my students. Judith Kistner: We also took all the 6th grades to Williamsburg. Judith Kistner: There were four buses and it was some of the children's first time away from home overnight. We did have parents go with us and we just spent one night and came back. But he told me these are your children, so don't lose them. So we- And it rained the most of the time we were down there.

Karen Blair: Oh no. Judith Kistner: So it was a wonderful experience on taking a field trip because I was counting heads most of the time, but when I left his classroom- and he did become a principal in Baltimore County then after that- Judith Kistner: but I really did get a great experience of justice taking over a classroom. Karen Blair: And that was your only interaction? That was your only student teaching assignment?

Judith Kistner: Yeah. We had 10 weeks and that was it. And I did it in my junior year. Karen Blair: And that's unusual too. Judith Kistner: Yeah, I did it the last half of my junior year. Karen Blair: But you didn't do any other grade, just sixth. Interesting.

Judith Kistner: Just sixth. And then chose fourth when I… Karen Blair: So that said, you came back to campus then? Judith Kistner: Yeah. For the last year, I was on campus. Karen Blair: For a year.

Judith Kistner: Yeah, finishing up. Yeah. Karen Blair: And are you feeling confident after you student taught, that this was something that you could do with no problem? Judith Kistner: No problem. I really think that man just knew what- He knew how to take a student teacher and make them confident to walk in a classroom. And I really learned a lot through him. Karen Blair: So at the end of your senior year you're applying, I assume, to schools or to counties. And how did that process go?

Judith Kistner: Well, we applied. They were in desperate need of teachers. And so they came to campus asking us to come, which doesn't happen very often, I guess, now days. But they did come. Judith Kistner: They were in desperate need, and Baltimore City was $100 more than, I think $100 more a year than Baltimore County. But I was fortunate enough to be offered a brand new school in Baltimore County, so I thought that should be an interesting experience. Judith Kistner: So I opted for less money and went to Baltimore County at Riderwood Elementary School, which opened in 1965. Karen Blair: How perfect, the timing was great.

Judith Kistner: It was. It was great. Karen Blair: And you said your assignment was for 4th grade. Judith Kistner: My assignment was 4th grade and I got the grade I wanted. 6th grade were a little bit older. I wanted a grade where they were changing and 4th grade is a big changing year. They come in kind of holding your hand and go out, the girls particularly, as adults, or thinking they're adults. Judith Kistner: So I really do like that grade. And I was fortunate enough to get that and go to a brand new school with a brand new faculty together. So it was a wonderful experience. The first year we, I mean, the first weeks, it was an air conditioned school. One of the first in Baltimore County.

Judith Kistner: We had no air conditioning. They hadn't finished putting that in. We had no desks, we had chairs, we had old books from an old school because the new books hadn't arrived. So for about a month, we were settling in, and that was a good experience, too. A new one, but a good one. Judith Kistner: Because you really had to be on your toes with the children because they were coming for a month with very few things to use as far as the school was concerned. Karen Blair: I see. Judith Kistner: And we sort of did that for the first month or two until the books arrived, but it was an interesting experience.

Karen Blair: So, but the books come, the desks come… Judith Kistner: And things settle down and it was- And I really enjoyed Riderwood. Judith Kistner: Riderwood was a very high income level area. Judith Kistner: Most of the students left 6th grade and went to private school.

Judith Kistner: So you had the backing of the parents. They were wonderful. I think the biggest thing that people don't understand about that is if you- You work hard to present things to the students. Judith Kistner: And they'll come in and say dad showed me that last night. So you do have that because the parents are teaching the children. I mean, it's a great home experience because the parents are very involved or were then extremely involved. Karen Blair: Right. Karen Blair: And their expectations are high for their children, so that level of responsibility is just ratcheted up.

Judith Kistner: They're very, very high. Karen Blair: If you have parents that are very involved, so it's not necessarily an easier task. Judith Kistner: Oh no, I wouldn't say it's easier, but the children are involved in the learning and the parents are involved in the learning. Judith Kistner: Because the children, they're all involved in getting this child educated, and many of the mothers were just homemakers. They stayed home with the children at that time. So it was, it was…

Judith Kistner: It wasn't an easy job, but it was an enjoyable job and you could always have- depend on a parent to come in and talk to the children. If there was something in the science area that, you know. Judith Kistner: They were engineers or whatever, they'd be more than willing to come. Judith Kistner: That's wonderful. Judith Kistner: So it was a wonderful experience. It was.

Karen Blair: And how long did you stay there? Judith Kistner: I was there for three years. Karen Blair: Uh-huh. And then what happened? Judith Kistner: Well, my husband came home from Vietnam. He had gotten married the year before, and we were married a year. And he said, why don't you take some time off?

Judith Kistner: Because I had spent a lot of time, I even had him in the room many, many weekends decorating for holidays, and so he was very involved in it too. He came and spoke to the children about Vietnam. We had the 4th, 5th and 6th grades. He did a slide presentation. Judith Kistner: And, because that was very important then in the news, and so then he said, why don't you take some time off? So I said, well, maybe I will. I thought about it over the summer. And I said, well, maybe I will. And I said no, I think I'm gonna give it up. And over the summer, my maid of honor moved or was going to move in September, and she was teaching. Judith Kistner: She went to Towson with me and she said, if I could tell the principal that I had someone who taught 4th grade in Baltimore County, I could have a week off and get my house settled, because she was moving from apartment to a house, and she said, would you come in for me for a week? Judith Kistner: And I said certainly. And I went in for a week and I subbed for over 10 years at Villa Cresta elementary school. And I love subbing. It was very, very creative. I only did the one school.

Judith Kistner: So the students got to know me. Judith Kistner: And it's an interesting… A different grade each time. Judith Kistner: And it's creative and a totally different community. Totally. These were latchkey kids who went home. Both parents worked. Uh, I guess you could call it a blue collar area. Karen Blair: It was a different community.

Judith Kistner: You could bring the children a lot of things that they didn't know or hadn't been taught. Judith Kistner: You didn't have the total backing of the parents like you did at Riderwood. Judith Kistner: It wasn't… But it was an excellent experience too, I enjoyed it. Judith Kistner: And I enjoyed the creative- the creativity of subbing.

Judith Kistner: And not knowing… You go in and the teacher has a plan. Judith Kistner: And the children think it's going to be a day off. So you have to be a disciplinarian. But I would just tell the children, you know, we're going to do all our work and then we're going to do our play, but we're not going to start playing until we get the work done. And they got to know that that was what I was going to do when I came in. So I had a great rapport with all the kids. I enjoyed the school. Karen Blair: Right. Judith Kistner: I was treated just like faculty because I went in just about every day.

Judith Kistner: I took long term. I took heart attacks and pregnancies and illnesses, and so I was there a lot. Enjoyed it. Karen Blair: And it also freed you up, though, if there was something you wanted to do, then you could elect to do that. Judith Kistner: I had the option to say no if I wanted to, didn't do it a lot though. I went in. Karen Blair: So you got to teach all grades one through five? One through six?

Judith Kistner: I didn't take kindergarten, I taught one through 5- one through 6 then, one through 6. Karen Blair: And did you find one group more enjoyable than another? Judith Kistner: Well, first grade I wasn't as comfortable, and 2nd. 1st and 2nd because I hadn't had early childhood. 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th were fine. Judith Kistner: They were fine.

Karen Blair: So 10 years of doing that. Judith Kistner: Yes. Karen Blair: And then what happens? Judith Kistner: The next thing, my husband and I bought a house and the lady next door worked at Emmanuel Lutheran Private School on Belvedere and Loch Raven Blvd. Her daughter. And her daughter asked if I would be interested in coming in and teaching 5th and 6th math and science.

Judith Kistner: And the reason I left Villa Cresta was that they put in open space and I was not happy teaching to the corners. It was one big room with a sofa and a rocker and a chair, and the children just had desks. It was an experiment Baltimore County put in. Judith Kistner: And I was just not happy with it. I liked my contained classroom, so I told them I didn't think I was going to be subbing anymore. And then the lady asked me if I would teach math and science at Emmanuel, and I said I'd love to try it. So I had a private school experience, too, with those two subjects, which I loved. Karen Blair: Right. Karen Blair: Let's go back to and I'm glad that you mentioned open space. What do you think the sense of that kind of setting was by most of the faculty?

Judith Kistner: I don't think they enjoyed it. There were few who were I guess you would say very liberal in their teaching ideas and they liked it. Judith Kistner: But it happened that when they did it, they put the teachers in there. You didn't have the choice. I didn't if they called me for 3rd grade or 4th grade because that was the open space area and I was subbing. But they didn't ask the teacher if they wanted to teach in that area. Judith Kistner: They just- That was where they were going to teach. And I think most of them were not happy with it. It was very difficult because you were teaching to a corner and if you brought in television, set all the heads turned to the television set and somebody in the other corner was trying to teach math or trying to teach social studies and you were trying to show a film or you were trying to show a TV show, or something, for the students and it just- Judith Kistner: I don't think it worked. I think their attention span, and particularly at a school like Villa Cresta, it just was not the school to put it in. It might have worked better at Riderwood where I was in the beginning. But I thought at Villa Cresta it was just not a good choice of school for that.

Karen Blair: I think conceptually there was the idea that you could come together as a larger group. Everybody who was in that pod or whatever you called it and that you could sort of rearrange the kids more easily into math and science or regroup them, according to reading ability or something like that. Karen Blair: I think theoretically that was the concept behind it, but it doesn't sound like… Judith Kistner: I didn't think it worked that well. Now I wasn't involved in it that long because I wasn't happy with it. Judith Kistner: But I think changing classes was the better way to do that, and particularly in math and reading.

Judith Kistner: And then I think in Riderwood, we ended up doing math and reading. I'm not sure we did every subject, but we did do math and reading. So you had, you know, the children change classes like they do in high school and junior high and middle school. Karen Blair: Just an interesting idea and- Judith Kistner: I don't know what they ever did… Do you know what they ever did with those big rooms? Judith Kistner: I mean, they did have folding walls, yes, but you could hear…

Karen Blair: They did. Judith Kistner: That's what they did, so I presume they're still there if they wanna use them for a big room. Karen Blair: Well, some. I think most of them have sort of been… Real walls have been put in kind of thing. Karen Blair: And probably as you said, a big, one or two big spaces where they can do larger group activities and stuff.

Judith Kistner: If they want to do it, yeah. Judith Kistner: This was something came from Baltimore County, so. Karen Blair: Well, it was national. Judisth Kistner: Was it national?

Karen Blair: Yes. Everybody, it was this whole new concept. And I think perhaps a part of it was that it saved money. But I'm not certain. Karen Blair: So you say this is not my cup of tea and somehow you have a neighbor who's inviting you to be involved once again in education, so if you would tell us a little bit about that. Judith Kistner: Well, that was an interesting experience because it was a religious school. Judith Kistner: They taught religion. The children had to go to church. It was a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church. I was not Lutheran.

Judith Kistner: They hired me anyway, and they also had- The Board of the church controlled the school. Most of the students were Lutheran. We, it was very German oriented. We had a German teacher who came from Lutheran High School to the elementary level and taught German to each class once a week. The classes were much smaller than I had in Baltimore County. Karen Blair: I see. Judith Kistner: Um, we had about 38 in Baltimore County and in that school, we had about 25, maybe in the class. So you had a little bit more individual teaching you could do. That was great. I thought that was wonderful. I really enjoyed that, and my math and science students were just wonderful. I mean, they were just excellent students. Judith Kistner: Just went on to Lutheran High School from there.

Judith Kistner: It was a progression. Karen Blair: I see. Karen Blair: And was that a full time job for you? Judith Kistner: It was full time. Math and science. Yeah, 5th and 6th. The principle was also the 5th and 6th grade teacher.

Judith Kistner: So he- When I had math and science he did his principal work. Judith Kistner: But I enjoyed, I enjoyed it. That's the other two subjects I really like. Judith Kistner: Uh, I loved science and math. Karen Blair: And how long did you stay there?

Judith Kistner: I was there for I guess two or three years doing that. Judith Kistner: Yeah, until we moved again. Judith Kistner: And there's been changes when we moved. Karen Blair: Well, sure. I mean moving does make for change, doesn't it? So, and then you moved.

Judith Kistner: It does. Yes, it does. Judith Kistner: We moved into Cockeysville and a neighbor in 90. We moved there in 74 and I didn't do… Judith Kistner: I don't remember that I did things during 74 and 76 but get my house settled. Karen Blair: I was going to say.

Judith Kistner: And get my life settled down in Cockeysville and then in 76, a neighbor ran for office for House of Delegates. He was a friend of my husband's from high school. Judith Kistner: And he asked if, since I wasn't teaching or subbing, would I be interested in working on his campaign, which, I had never done anything like that before. And then he asked, because he came out where he needed to check the absentee ballots to find out if he won. Judith Kistner: He asked if I would go in the Election office for him, and they would check, and I would be his spy, to watch the checking of absentee ballots to make sure it was done correctly for him. Judith Kistner: And I went in the Election office and at the end of checking his, which he did not win, checking his absentee ballots. Doris Suter, who was the administrator of the Election Office at that time in Baltimore County, asked if I could, if she could keep my name and call me back, which I didn't think she'd do, but she did.

Judith Kistner: And the next election called me back and I went in for 10 weeks and 10 weeks where we worked on the elections and did the absentee ballot count, which was done on a machine. It was done by hand. And I did that until in the late eighties. Karen Blair: So for some time. Now, you're out of teaching altogether. However, I guess my question to you is, do you ever really leave teaching? I mean, were there applicants- Parts of your skills that you had learned to become a teacher that applied to these other things that you were doing? Judith Kistner: Oh, definitely. Judith Kistner: Definitely. One of the things a friend who taught at Towson, didn't graduate from Towson but taught at Towson, and I put together a training session for the judges, for the polls, and we did that for many years.

Judith Kistner: So my education background came in there because we taught them what their job was going to be. And as a former college teacher and myself, as a former teacher, we worked together on that, put together a plan, a forward look, everything that we had learned and our education background. Judith Kistner: So yeah, and then I also had duties in the Election Office on election night. Judith Kistner: So you had the telephone ringing, and talking to the chief judges and telling them, answering their questions on what was going on out there in the election places. Karen Blair: Well, it sounds like multitasking, which any teacher has to do in any given hour of any given school day. So that certainly did have applicability for you there.

Judith Kistner: It did. Karen Blair: And are you retired now or what new adventure are you involved in? Judith Kistner: Well, when I stopped- Karen Blair: Teachers, by the way, teachers never retire.

Judith Kistner: They never retire. I understand that. Well, after the experience and I stopped working at the Election Office, my husband changed his job. Same company, but changed from human resources to government and community relations. Judith Kistner: So it really required my time to be with him because community meant that we went to functions outside of the community, and government relations meant that we did government, like, going to- Judith Kistner: If a person had a political rally or a political fundraiser or whatever, we attended that, so we spent some time in Annapolis. I got to know delegates and mayors and councilmen. And so we really did have a wonderful career. Judith Kistner: And that, and I felt like that was part of my career, too.

Karen Blair: Oh, absolutely. Judith Kistner: So it was wonderful. Judith Kistner: And my teaching career well, I talked a lot, and I talked a lot when I taught, in front of people. So that was an interesting experience to be involved in. Judith Kistner: So I enjoyed it very, very much. My mother always would ask what did they have to eat and I would say I don't know, because by the time we finished our talking to the people there, there was no food left. So you know how involved that was. My husband did it worldwide. But I'm not a big traveler, so I really didn't go with them.

Judith Kistner: I did go with him in the states, but I didn't go with him… Because he did some of the states. Judith Kistner: Because the company had had plants in other areas of the of the country, but he did the government relations and community relations worldwide and many of them dealt with schools too. That's interesting. Judith Kistner: In Ohio, in Ohio, he, in Ashtabula, we worked with the school out there and he worked with the school here in the city, put together a garden for the students to work on, Judith Kistner: and then they harvested the vegetables in one of the City Schools.

Judith Kistner: Wow. Judith Kistner: And so we were quite involved, quite involved. It was a wonderful life. We had people from- What I did, since I didn't travel, we had people from Europe come here, and they bring their wives. So then I got to take them on tours of the city. Karen Blair: Wonderful. Judith Kistner: And it was my city. So I really enjoyed that.

Karen Blair: Yes indeed. Born, raised, lived. Judith Kistner: Lived, raised, schooling, everything. So we had parliamentarians and their wives and we had Lord and ladies. And we had people from Australia and South Africa. Judith Kistner: And France. Judith Kistner: And I think that was about it. I think that was it.

Judith Kistner: It was an interesting life. Judith Kistner: Yeah, and now I'm involved in Towson. Judith Kistner: Very, very involved. I am in Towerlight. I'm in Towerlight. I'm on the Education Advisory Board for the upcoming anniversary. Judith Kistner: Uh-huh. What's… 150 years?

Karen Blair: I know. Sesquicentennial. Judith Kistner: Right. And my 50th year will be next year. Judith Kistner: I planned the reunion for the 45th year for my 1970- 1965 year. Judith Kistner: Yes, we had our 50th and I worked on that and got many of my friends here, first time we had ever done anything.

Judith Kistner: So I was very proud. Our class had never done a reunion. We’d never had a cocktail party or anything. So I was very proud to do that. Karen Blair: Your class in 1965. Karen Blair: Wow, well, that- You were getting into sort of a radical group in 65 there. Karen Blair: So, you know, we're beginning to think anti everything. So maybe they're just people weren't thinking in those terms, who knows.

Judith Kistner: I don't know. No, I don't. Judith Kistner: In six- The 60s were different. We were on the edge of that, so. Judith Kistner: Yeah, just on the edge, just. Karen Blair: Yeah, well, how wonderful that you've kind of helped orchestrate that,

Karen Blair: and participated so fully in sort of bringing Towson people back together again. Very nice. Judith Kistner: I just love this school and that's all I can tell you. We're taught Towson tigers, football games and… Karen Blair: Oh, I understand. And you might talk a little bit about that. You were practically at every game this year, I think. Judith Kistner: We were. It blew me away to see the stadium because when I was at Towson Doc Minnegan was here and we didn't have enough men to have a football team, I don't think. There was a six to one ratio.

Judith Kistner: It was Towson State Teachers’ College, and we had- They tell me we had a soccer team. I don't really remember since I wasn't on campus. I wasn't. I'm not sure about that. But I do know we had a tennis team because one of my friends was on the tennis team. Karen Blair: Right. I see. Judith Kistner: So to see that stadium is just wonderful. I just- And now the new arena just is incredible. Judith Kistner: It is just wonderful. And if people haven't seen it, they should come because it is just amazing what the school has become. And it's just a wonderful school.

Judith Kistner: And we've had a wonderful, wonderful time coming back to it and being part of it, part of the alumni group. Karen Blair: Well, and have been such cheerleaders for the university. It's wonderful. I mean that works both ways. Judith Kistner: Well, can I say- Judith Kistner: Can I say that my husband went to Loyola and graduated and he got his masters at Hopkins, but I've got him convinced that Towson is the place. He loves it here. He's met so many wonderful people, and they've just been so wonderful to us and he does, thinks Towson is the place.

Karen Blair: There you go. Karen Blair: Well, and he has a wife who's a teacher by training and, you know, persuasion is one of the things that teachers must do, so… Judith Kistner: I guess I'm good at it. Karen Blair: Apparently so. Absolutely.

Judith Kistner: Well, I shouldn’t probably put this in it, but I will. I've known him since he was four years old, so he lived down the street. Judith Kistner: So we’ve known each other a long, long time. And I guess I can be persuasive. But he loves Towson as much as I do. Karen Blair: Wonderful. Karen Blair: Judy, what have we forgotten? What about your life, what about your preparation, have we missed? Because sometimes that happens.

Judith Kistner: I'll just take a quick look at my notes. Earl Hawkins was president when I was here and he signed my diploma. It's a Bachelor of Science from 1965. Karen Blair: Very nice. Judith Kistner: And I graduated cum laude, and it was elementary education The liberal arts school started while I was here. When I was a junior. And I just walked through the huge building that is liberal- brand new, which is gorgeous, liberal arts building. Judith Kistner: Kennedy was assassinated while I was here, in the beginning of my junior year. And I was walking. We were walking across campus.

Judith Kistner: Coming from the small student center we had, up to Stephens Hall for classes, and someone on the other walkway. Because there were two walkways walking that took you down there. Someone hollered, the president's been shot, and we all just couldn't. We were in a daze. We just couldn't believe it. We just could not believe that that had happened. Judith Kistner: And there was just a pall over the whole school, it was it was just an amazing day that you never forget because everybody in the school was just shocked. Judith Kistner: He was a very popular president, particularly with college age students. Judith Kistner: We, he, the boys combed their hair and dressed like the president, and the girls wore the clothes, like Jackie, and their hair had to be up in a pouf, and we wore the dresses with the pins that Jackie wore. And it was just a shock to all of us.

Judith Kistner: It really was. He was well liked. Karen Blair: Yes. And young. Handsome. Beautiful family. Judith Kistner: And young. Yes, the family life, and we all just fell in love with them. I mean, I think it was, it wasn't even his politics. We just liked what he presented to us. That was just a shock. Karen Blair: Ah, absolutely.

Karen Blair: So when, this is interesting, when you heard that kind of news, where did people turn on radios? Karen Blair: Were there sufficient televisions that everybody could go to their TV? Judith Kistner: No, unfortunately there were no cell phones or televisions around. I'm not sure about radios. There may have been radios in Stephens Hall. Judith Kistner: And we were trying to get the news. I mean, we had classes to attend. I don't think they cancelled classes. I cannot remember if they did. I do remember that I was dating someone at Towson and we went out that night to a hockey game in Baltimore, which they did not cancel. And the people, when they played the national anthem.

Judith Kistner: We lowered all the lights and the people were crying. In the arena. So those were sad times. Sad, sad times. But we didn't have cell phones. We weren't kept up with the news. We just- The news went from person to person. That's pretty much how you got your news. Karen Blair: Uh-huh. Amazing. Judith Kistner: And I don't even remember if there was a television in the student center. Probably not. Karen Blair: I don't know either.

Judith Kistner: That's been a long time. Karen Blair: Yeah, 50 years. Judith Kistner: Uh. Some, like, teachers I had. This is an interesting story. I had science and math I loved. So I had a science teacher in Woodburn Junior High and his name was Doctor Moorefield. Judith Kistner: And I got to Towson and my first year, English lit- English composition and physical science were the two, what they called elimination-

Judith Kistner: What we knew as elimination courses, and when we went to Stevens Hall for our first convocation, Dr. Hawkins got up and said, look to your left and look to your right. Judith Kistner: And only one of you will be here in four years. Judith Kistner: And then we knew that the English comp and the physical science classes were elimination classes, so they were the two hardest the first year. And my physical science teacher was a Doctor Moorefield. Judith Kistner: So we walked into Doctor Moorefield's lab room and he had lab tables with stools, square lab tables with stools, and I was about the third. Excuse me, the third lab table back on the end in the middle. On the end. Yes. And he came into the room, and he had a list of the students.

Judith Kistner: And he started down the list and he got to the R's. Judith Kistner: And he said Judith Richardson and I said I'm here. And he said, oh, no, not again. Judith Kistner: So I had the same teacher for science and in middle school as I did at Towson, and he was wonderful. Just wonderful. Karen Blair: Isn't that amazing?

Judith Kistner: I love science, so we had a great rapport. Karen Blair: Well, you must have been a good student. He remembered you. But you said that was an area that you were interested in. Judith Kistner: Wonderful man. Well. Judith Kistner: That I was interested in. So he knew me from that.

Karen Blair: So that must have been reassuring. Judith Kistner: Oh, it was, it was. Oh, everybody laughed and it was a great beginning for my- Karen Blair: And you thought, I'm gonna pass this course. Judith Kistner: I also had Mr. Beckey for math and he became Doctor Beckey. He's no longer here and doctor Vopel was head of the department. I think Mr. Beckey's passed away and I know Doctor Moorefield passed away several years ago. Not too long ago. He was a good friend of my friend who taught here. Doctor Vopel.

Judith Kistner: And Dr. Gillespie was here in the theater department when I was here. Judith Kistner: So when I see him with the President… And we've had long talks about the classes then and the performances I had many friends who were involved in the theater arts. I was not, but they were and they come back for all the theater alumni, and doctor- and see Doctor Gillespie, whom they just loved. Karen Blair: Uh, I think he was very- Yes, very well liked. Judith Kistner: Our classes were small and I think the best thing about this school we all knew our professors and they knew us and it's true today I understand, they're trying to keep it that way and that's wonderful.

Judith Kistner: Because that's what you should do. You should know your professor and have- Karen Blair: Which is difficult to do. It's difficult with 22,000 students. Judith Kistner: With the size of the school. Judith Kistner: It certainly is, but I hear from the students that they like it. They do know their professors well, and so that's good.

Karen Blair: I think that that was one of the things that Maravene Lusky, our current president did was go around campus before she took the position to get a sense of what students thought, Karen Blair: and I think they said the same sort of thing that you've heard from them. Karen Blair: Is that yes, we know our professors and they know us. Judith Kistner: Well, she came in the year I left.

Judith Kistner: I left in ‘65 and she came in as a freshman the year I left, I graduated, and we graduated from the Glen, and we I think we walked across the porch to get our diploma from Doctor Hawkins. Karen Blair: Interesting. Judith Kistner: There were enough seats there for us. I can't remember how many students. I'm sure it's somewhere in the archives in the library. But yeah, there were enough chairs for parents to come and the graduates. Karen Blair: I'm sure it is.

Judith Kistner: So we were on the grass and chairs at the Glen. Karen Blair: And fortunately it did not rain. Judith Kistner: And it did not rain. Judith Kistner: It was a beautiful day.

Karen Blair: Which is a little risky, but hey. Judith Kistner: Yeah, it worked, and I hope they don't tear the Glen down. Has memories for all of us, so. Karen Blair: Yeah. Space is an issue, but I think there is a commitment to the Glen. Judith Kistner: I hope so. I hope so.

Karen Blair: And I think we’ll see. Judith Kistner: They’ll save it. Yeah, well, we saved Eastern High School, so maybe the alumni at Towson can save the Glen. They wanted to tear- Karen Blair: There you go. Well, sounds like a persuasive teacher needs to be- Karen Blair: There you go.

Judith Kistner: Right. Maybe that'll do it. I'll get them all together and we'll talk about it. Judith Kistner: We would like to see it remain. Eastern was to be torn down for a parking lot for the stadium that they eventually did tear down. Judith Kistner: But the alumni got together and we convinced him not to, and Hopkins took it over. So maybe we can get Towson to use the Glen for something. Karen Blair: Your next career.

Judith Kistner: Here I go. Karen Blair: Yeah, absolutely. Karen Blair: Let me see if there's anything else. Karen Blair: What else do you have on your list?

Judith Kistner: Let's see. I told you about my first teaching experience in Villa Cresta and Emmanuel. Judith Kistner: And my student teaching experience at Lutherville. Now I think I've pretty much covered it. Judith Kistner: Do you have anything to ask me? Karen Blair: Well, we always gotta ask everybody what kind of wisdom you would share with an individual who is considering teaching as a career.

Judith Kistner: For me personally, it was a wonderful, wonderful career. As a matter of fact, at that time we thought of it as a profession. Like a doctor, you would go into it like a doctor or a dentist. It was your profession. I would hope that most people think of it as a profession and a career. Judith Kistner: It is not an easy career. It's not an easy job, and you're handling someone. You have them awake longer than their parents do, when you think about it. And you're responsible for them, you're- The children come to the class and they're under your control longer than their parents. Judith Kistner: Because they go home, they do their homework hopefully, they have dinner and they go to bed, and the next morning you have them again. So when you think about that, from September to June, Judith Kistner: you have responsibility for those children for a long, long time of their life, and I think just that should make you want to be a teacher. If you love children and you love educating and you love learning, that you can pass what you know and what they're to know on to them.

Judith Kistner: Because it's just a wonderful feeling, and to see the smiles and to see them get something and- Division or multiplication, it's just a wonderful feeling. You don't get that feeling from many careers. There you go. Judith Kistner: You don’t. It's very people oriented and you don't get that- That feeling of success, that you can have every day. You know, it's just, it's… Judith Kistner: I enjoyed it very, very much. And it's been a great background for the rest of my career, so I'm glad I picked it. And I would wish that many people would today. Karen Blair: Great. Thank you.

Judith Kistner: You're very welcome. Karen Blair: This has been fun. A teacher in many different roles. Judith Kistner: Yeah, it has been. Judith Kistner: And I hope it hasn't stopped. I hope my- I want my background with Towson to continue for many, many years.

Karen Blair: Oh, heavens no. Karen Blair: There you go. Well, now you have to start the Save the Glen Campaign. Judith Kistner: I guess I do. I guess that's going to be my next project. Judith Kistner: I'm very interested in the library too with Debbie. That's a wonderful, wonderful library. I've been on a tour of it and I'm very interested in that. And of course, the Education Department, and the Athletic Department, and everybody through those areas has just been wonderful. So I’ll be here for a long time, hopefully.

Judith Kistner: Well, we hope so. Karen Blair: Great. Thank you. Judith Kistner: Thank you. Karen Blair: This was fun.

I enjoyed it. Great.