Interview with Johnella Butler

Allyn Lawrence (00:04): Okay. Hello, my name is Allyn Lawrence. Today's date is November 8th, 2021. I am... Ashley Todd-Diaz. We are conducting an oral history with Dr. Butler as a part of the Unearthing Towson's History project here at Towson University. Allyn Lawrence (00:22): So, Dr. Butler, um, this past summer I had the opportunity to work in the archives, and as I was digging through, um, various academic counsel records, I came across your name very often. So, just to learn about how you came to Towson, um, I saw that you came in September of 1970 and began teaching in 1971. So, how did you come to apply for the job? Johnnella Butler (00:49): Okay, well, in June, '68, I began studies towards the Master of Arts and Teaching at John's Hopkins. And, immediately after... That was immediately after I graduated from college in, um, Massachusetts. My BA is in English with a minor in Spanish American Literature, and I had studied music, specifically voice, while I was at the Elms. So, I had been awarded full scholarships to Southern Illinois University for an MA in English, to Hopkins, and was accepted at Julliard, uh, School of Music to self fund the first year to complete- to compete for a full scholarship. Um, I couldn't afford to do that, and I was torn about not pursuing singing. I was a lyric coloratura soprano, that's important later in some questions here. Johnnella Butler (01:36): And I decided to pursue college teaching, largely because of the Civil Rights Movement, and because of my family's history in education. So, the Hopkins degree appealed to me for Dr. John Walton, its founder, fashioned a degree to prepare students to teach in liberal education. So, I caught, um... He was a visionary and the program was kind of wedged in at Hopkins. So, I wanted to do college teaching, but I had to do- practice teaching. I taught at Dumbarton Junior High School. I taught in the summer at Dumbar High School in Baltimore, but my sights were set on college teaching. Johnnella Butler (02:15): So, my first year in college, I had written an essay in freshman orientation, and argued for the faculty development and curriculum change to meet the changes in higher education. And so, my first job was at Mount Providence Junior College in Catonsville, which is now closed, and, uh, where I taught English, it was in 1969. And I was the, um, what do you call it? The transfer counselor. And, I s- when I said I had studied voice privately and I sang, I think I heard about the possibilities at Towson from friends at the Baltimore Choral Arts Society. Johnnella Butler (02:53): So I went to an interview with Dr. Bevins, the chair of the English department, who offered me a part-time job teaching Composition and American Literature. And as I recall, Dan Jones, the legendary Dan Jones, was chair when I arrived and set my schedule to teach Composition and American Literature and Black American Literature. (laughs) Allyn Lawrence (03:14): Wow. Johnnella Butler (03:16): (laughs) That gives you a sense of me and why I came to Towson, I wanted to. Allyn Lawrence (03:20): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative). So, when you arrived, what were your initial impressions of Towson? Johnnella Butler (03:28): Well, I knew Baltimore City fairly well then, because I had great aunts and uncles who lived there who attended, uh, Saint Peter Claver Church. And Towson was at the tip of the iceberg of integrating the Maryland higher education system. And, it was at the tip of the iceberg for African Americans and I've... As we felt, I think the contradictions of race and gender in that environment when I first arrived there. Department faculty were very welcoming. Dan was a superb chair. He was willing to really grapple with all the undercurrents of change that were going on. Johnnella Butler (04:07): I shared an office with a young white woman, Jeanie Thomas, from Seattle, who was studying for a PhD at Hopkins, and we became lifelong friends. President Fisher was making appointments of Black administrators and minority affairs, like Julius Chapman and student affairs like Dr. George Pruitt, who later became a president, and was seeking to make other appointments. So it seems to be a place that people wanted change, and the old guard was retiring or were accepting of change. So I thought Towson was the place that I would like to teach. Allyn Lawrence (04:45): Thank you. Um, going kind of in line with that, how would you describe the racial climate at Towson and on campus during the time you were there? Johnnella Butler (04:57): So, I experienced Towson as a place that was growing as a college and as a place for leadership. And most of the faculty were trying hard to combat racism and make Towson a productive place for Black students as well as white students. Johnnella Butler (05:14): After my interview with Dr. Bevins I was told he described me as, "A young colored woman who smelled like a rose," and that was the kind of microaggression I sometimes encountered. He was a very nice and kind, but that was, you know, he was surprised. And, others were surprised, I think, that was I smart, attractive and that b- Black and white students liked me. Johnnella Butler (05:38): On the other hand, there was welcoming of my expertise and presence, and it was my growing expertise. It was at a time of high energy and, you know, they were establishing the Minority Affairs Office, the Towson Opportunity Program, the Black Studies Program, ultimately, and a time of slow, steady change in the composition of faculty. So, Black students experienced racist inci- incidents with white students. Johnnella Butler (06:05): I'll give you an example: athletics were taking advantage of Black students. I got a call from a c- football coach asking that I pass a Black student who was failing. I said, "No, but I will tutor him," and I did, and he passed on his own merit. Johnnella Butler (06:21): So, overall, it was a racially charged environment that I felt had good people who wanted to make Towson a good place to be. Allyn Lawrence (06:34): Would you say that, um, the students that you taught, particularly the- the Black students, had a voice on campus? Johnnella Butler (06:44): I sensed that it was growing. Uh, their voice was growing on campus. The Black students were looking for anchors in what they saw and sometimes experienced as a hostile environment. And so, you know, Morgan State had been the Black counterpart to Towson, and some whites and Blacks challenged why Black students should even be there. A Black faculty would come to Towson. Johnnella Butler (07:07): So, there had been somebody before me who had taught Black Studies courses who only used colored chalk. So, there had been confusion around integration, separatism, what it means to be Black in a new environment that was in the process of integrating. So they were finding their voice. You know, establishing organizations. I think the office of, uh, I don't know if it was called Minority Affairs then, um, was very important in- in helping Black students and the few Black faculty that were there, like me, um, you know, worked with them. Johnnella Butler (07:41): And I always felt that Black students needed to find their voice, but white students needed to find their voices too, as to what was going on. And, I, in the courses I taught, and my approaches in working with students, I was very aware of trying to make connections among the students. Allyn Lawrence (08:04): Um, my next question is a little specific, but Towson has its student newspaper, The Towerlight Johnnella Butler (08:11): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Allyn Lawrence (08:13): Excuse me. Which is how I learned about this particular event. So, um, after the death of two black students at Southern University in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, during a rally in November of '72, there were- there were two deaths and, um, so Towson students held a rally in front of Linthicum Hall and dug two graves in honor of the students who died. Do you remember this day? This event? Johnnella Butler (08:40): You know, I don't think I was on campus that day, but I remember the event, and students told me about it and we talked about it in class. Allyn Lawrence (08:48): Mm. Johnnella Butler (08:48): Um, Black and white students. I think that represented to Towson's Black students, a recognition of- of the pain they experienced and also, a catharsis to express it- Allyn Lawrence (09:02): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Johnnella Butler (09:02): ... in an all-white environment, um, the racism that they experienced from some white students and faculty towards them, and, you know, in the surrounding area of Baltimore. The white students in my class, I tried to help them see their connections to what we- what we were learning about one another as they studied together and their eyes were open. You know, kinda to that pain and horror. Johnnella Butler (09:25): I- I wanted to say a little bit, maybe on ant- anticipate your question about relationship with African American students because, um, around that event and then in my classes, uh, I- I had a very good, in- in a sense, extraordinary relationship with some of the students. Uh, three of the students still are in t- touch with me. Um, I walked into a fundraiser at Spellman, uh, some years ago, and somebody said, "Ms. Butler, you taught me freshman composition." (laughs) There was Sonny Gatston. I'll... You should really talk to him, I'll give you some names afterwards, like that. Johnnella Butler (10:03): But, I was one of the few Black members- faculty members, and at that time, remember, I was only about five years older than my students that I was teaching. I was- I was 22. Um, they were respectful, eager to learn and fascinated, there was some kind of fascination that I was there. They also showed a lot of support for me, and as minority students do, you know for- for mi- with minority faculty today. But I had to gain the trust of some of them, and I have a little anecdote, um, shows you that in a way. Johnnella Butler (10:35): I was teaching one day, and I think it was, um, freshman composition, and the class was... No, I was teaching Black Literature, actually. This was a Black Literature class, and I had really racially diverse classes, okay? And I loved teaching at Towson because there were... You had Black students, you had, uh, African American students, you had, uh, Greek American students, Jewish American students, Italian American students, you know? It was just really a good mixture, and my class showed that mixture. Johnnella Butler (11:06): So this young woman stood up, I remember her name, I don't know if I should say it. But [inaudible 00:11:11], 'cause I- I Googled her and she's still (laughs)... I mean, she stood up and she put her hands on her hips and she said, "So, what do you, a bougie Black woman like you, gonna teach us about Black Literature." And I thought, "Okay, what am I gonna do here?" I said, "Well, I'm gonna teach you a lot of what you don't know anything about." She sat down, kind of huffy puffy, and I used the opportunity to talk about class difference, racial difference in class, and how Black Literature addresses all of that. Johnnella Butler (11:45): So my hair was- was long then, and I had decided to cut in a- a short fro, but I decided to wait. I waited about 10 years before I did it, because I wanted students to see that someone in mini skirts, boots, a flip style hair, was Black too, and that being Black was, you know, more than one how- than how one looked or what- it was really what one knew and how one used that knowledge for Black people and all people. And so, you know, that was just, um, something that I- that helped me in teaching years later, to anticipate, um, how students might respond. Johnnella Butler (12:29): Also, you know, when, um... I don't know if it was in The Towerlight or not. It helped me with African American students and all students, that I was really kinda known in Baltimore, because I sang all over Baltimore. And I sang with the- the city... Oh, goodness. I sang with the, um... I studied voice with Marjorie [Vallum 00:12:50] and an accompanist, Maurice Murphy, who was at Coppin State. Sang in the Choral Arts Society, the [inaudible 00:12:57] Society. I sang with the Towson State Community Chorus concert one time, was a soloist. And I sang at the Basilica downtown, where Lou Sheets, who was the, um, uh, in the English department, was, um, the organist. And so I had a job there singing for- for years and was the feature soloist for city summer concerts, and sang at Memorial Stadium. Johnnella Butler (13:25): And the Italians would follow me around and say, you know, um, "She's not black, she's bruna, she's Italian." You know? Whatever. That helped me at Towson because students, the white- many of the white students saw, um, me as someone who was Black and like them, in a way, in some ways, and then not like them. Johnnella Butler (13:47): So I think it was an article in The Towerlight, I think so, that, um, I have... I'll take a photo of it and send it to you, um, that, um, a student, Ray [Alexauser 00:13:57], wrote, um, about that. So, that helped. All of that helped students see me as- as I said, as blackness is multifaceted- Allyn Lawrence (14:08): Hm. Johnnella Butler (14:09): ... and, um, and me, personally, is multifaceted. Allyn Lawrence (14:15): So, you mentioned your singing. Um- Johnnella Butler (14:18): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Allyn Lawrence (14:18): ... was the... Did you participate in the Gospel Choir on campus? Was that around when you were- Johnnella Butler (14:24): No, I don't... It wasn't around when I was there. And I did, uh, classical singing, and so- Allyn Lawrence (14:30): Oh, classical. Johnnella Butler (14:30): Yeah. And sang with the [Comic 00:14:32] Opera and sang with the- in th- the Lyric Opera in Baltimore. Th- it was just, it was- it was- I was a very strange person in that (laughs) I was- had- had two careers going, you know? But the one that I really, um, that was deeply me, I discovered about 15 years later, was teaching. You know? Though I had kept, sort of, that dual track. Allyn Lawrence (15:04): Okay. So, my next question is, can you tell us about the process in creating the African American studies major? Johnnella Butler (15:14): You know, I don't remember an awful lot, but I'll tell you what I remember. I remember- Allyn Lawrence (15:18): Great. Johnnella Butler (15:19): ... that I chaired the committee. (laughs) And I remember that I was only an instructor. Remember, I did not have tenure, I was on a part-time line, and, uh, Dan was always trying to find, um, ways to hire me full-time, um, because I really wanted to stay at Towson and get my degree at, um, uh, my PhD at Howard University. But that's another story I'll get to a little bit later. Johnnella Butler (15:47): Um, but in chairing that committee, um, I think it helped that faculty knew me in another context as well. I also, um, I don't recall the exact members, but I worked very closely with the history department, English department and sociology. Uh, it was someone named, Marge in history, and Gary. I can't remember their last- their last names. They were very- so, allies were very important, um, to go out beyond that committee. Johnnella Butler (16:20): And then I was able to, as an instructor, to hire part-time faculty. And I was able to hire Manny [Marible 00:16:27], who, um, has- he died young, actually, a few years ago. But Manny was a stellar, um, graduate student back then at University of Maryland, and then became a stellar, um, historian at Columbia University. And so, he was there, and that helped. Johnnella Butler (16:45): Um, so I'd say, you know, alliances, uh, uh, outside of that committee, joining that committee with alliances. And I think it helped a lot as to who I was, because that was big, um, um, obstacle to overcome when someone had come before and kinda defined Black studies in a separatist way. And so, you're always, you know, walking that fine line of- of both/and in- in fields like Women's Studies and African American studies. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Allyn Lawrence (17:18): Um, when it was first announced that, um, your committee was making a major, was there pushback from administration? Johnnella Butler (17:27): No. Allyn Lawrence (17:28): No? Johnnella Butler (17:29): Not that I re... No, huh-uh (negative). You know, uh, Dr. Fisher was- was trying very hard and did a lot, I think, to set a tone at Towson that these were the kinds of things we were gonna do. And, it was part of you, you know, of establishing the- what became the Towson Opportunity Program. It was a part of- of the kind of- of change that was- he was- it was very- had very wise administrators at that time. And, you know, Dan was- was a- a- Dan Jones was a real force and a- of- of, um, (laughs)... He had a very... I don't know, um, uh, Ashley, if you knew him, but, um, he had a- a very quiet way of moving people and being very logical and very caring at the same time. So, people respected... Johnnella Butler (18:21): So, if you had Dan kind of behind you and the administration at the time was behind... Despite the resistance you might have in- from individual people, you could move forward. Allyn Lawrence (18:32): Hm. Were students interested in, um, what's the word, pursuing the major when it was first announced? Johnnella Butler (18:45): Yes. Yes. Allyn Lawrence (18:45): Yes. Johnnella Butler (18:46): Students were very excited about it, yeah. And because, you know, the only courses we had before were, um, my courses and a few courses in history. And so, we were able, I just can't remember, you know, how we put it together, but were able to put together many more courses. Johnnella Butler (19:01): And what I wanted, and what I've always done in my career, I thought African American studies was not just for African American students, just like Women's Studies is not just for women students, you know? And so, you have to have African American studies and the context. And so, um, you know, the context of the rest of the world with that. And, um, students were very, very interested in that. Johnnella Butler (19:25): Also, um, something I developed later on in my own career, beyond Towson, started at- a lot- everything started at Towson for me, really. Um, I taught a comparative Black American and Jewish American history course with Evelyn Avery, a professor, uh, at- at Towson, and that was very successful. We had like, 40 students show up the first time around- Allyn Lawrence (19:49): Wow. Johnnella Butler (19:49): ... that was part. You know, we- we taught that. Um, and then, you know, just sort of seeing African American studies, I had a presence on the, um, on- on different committees. Like, I would do, um, I did inservice teacher workshops in Baltimore County. I planned and directed- co-directed an Ethnic Studies conference in 1974. And I had connections with the Freedom School in Baltimore, and so, um, I brought some of the drummers and some other people from that with that conference, something that hadn't happened before. Um, developing the courses in African American studies, and then worked with Education Department on their Human Relations Committee to lay the groundwork for that department's curriculum change. Johnnella Butler (20:43): So, people then, would see African American studies as, yes, this program, but also it had resonance and meaning elsewhere on campus. And so, I was able to... It was- it was- it was an interesting time. It was... I had a- I... It was challenging. I had a lot of fun. I remember people fondly. Um, and it was- it was hard to leave Towson because I loved the place and I loved the people there. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Allyn Lawrence (21:15): Yeah, from all that you participated in with your singing, your teaching, these outside activities, it sounds very busy but also very rewarding. Johnnella Butler (21:25): Yes, yes. It has been very rewarding. (laughs) Allyn Lawrence (21:29): Um, my next question is also about is also by reading The Towerlight. Um, it is, how did you get involved with the Black Task Force on campus? Johnnella Butler (21:40): You know, I honestly don't remember specifically. But, it was just the thing to do, you know? Because, um, we were- it was all part of a whole and so, if I was a faculty member there... I- I was very vocal and w- and was a part of, you know, would work with, um, George Pruitt and Julius and all the others that were on that task force. Allyn Lawrence (22:06): Do you know some of the accomplishments of the group, um, while you were part of it? Anything... Johnnella Butler (22:13): You know, I don't. Allyn Lawrence (22:14): No? Johnnella Butler (22:14): I don't remember. It- it was all- it was all a part of... I know one important thing was establishing that, um, the office that Julius chaired for, that I think now is the Diversity office. Allyn Lawrence (22:28): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Johnnella Butler (22:28): I think that was [inaudible 00:22:30]. And that r- gave guidance to that. The other thing, it might be hazy for me, but I taught in the- was the faculty advisor for the Summer Enrichment Program, it was called. And that, I think, became the Towson Opportunity Program. I think that- Allyn Lawrence (22:45): Oh, okay. Johnnella Butler (22:46): Yeah. Yeah. So, that was part of the- the task force as well, uh, work. Um, so it was really paying a great deal of attention to the- to student life side, and so my role was kinda connect that with the academics, as well. Allyn Lawrence (23:06): So, would you say the same thing for the Towson Opportunity Program, like it was just something that you became part of? Johnnella Butler (23:14): Yes, yes, yes. Allyn Lawrence (23:16): Yeah? Johnnella Butler (23:16): Just... Yeah. Just worked with... You know, you- it was- you know, I was young, I was excited about things, and something would come up, you know, said, "Okay," and I'd see the connection and I'd do it and then I'd go sing a song and go do it. (laughs) But I just really, um, you know, I was just- just a part of it all, very much so. (laughs) Allyn Lawrence (23:38): You mentioned working with, um, Julius Chapman. How do you remember working with him? Johnnella Butler (23:45): I remember just- just really, um, meetings, planning, um, uh, meeting other students through Julius. Um, I remember students being very fond of him and working closely with him. So, a lot of students that were in my classes were working with, um, Julius on vari- various topics. And as they were getting together, the- the- the, um, Minority Affairs office and- and center there. And, um, you know, sometimes there were meetings over incidents on campus. And then, George Pruitt was a vice... He was a- an Assistant Dean for Student Affairs, and, um, so I remember having, you know, meetings with Julius and George, um, mostly around building things and incidents that would- would occur there. Johnnella Butler (24:47): And I- I'll share one incident, um, with you that I recall that will give you a sense of the- the, um, the student, if you might, racism on campus and- and we had to deal with. So, one day... Okay, George Pruitt was the- was Assistant Dean of Students, and it's important to know what he looked like. Julius was very- was dark skinned. George was light brown skin- light, like, olive complexion and he had real curly hair. And so... And he wore it short and curly, that's important to remember in this story. Okay. Johnnella Butler (25:25): So, he was walking across campus on day, and he saw two young white men fighting. And so, he said- he went up to, um, break up the fight and they- they said, "Well, who are you?" He said, "I'm Dean Pruitt and I want you to come to my office right now," you know, and- and to stop this. So, he went back to his office and they didn't come. Instead, he got a call from President Fisher, and President Fisher said that there were students in his office who said that someone who said he was the dean, um, broke up their fight, and he said, "First of all, they shouldn't have been fighting, but nonetheless, he broke up their fight." Johnnella Butler (26:06): And he said, "Does that sound familiar to you?" So George said, "Well, yes." And he says... But, he said... As- as I remember Dean Fisher, uh, President Fisher said that the young man said that when he asked who this person was, that he was r... And George was about 5 feet night, something, said he was real tall, he was real dark and he had a big afro. And so, I... That story, I like to re- to recall sometimes because, particularly today, um, because the minds of some people, when they see Black people, they don't see the person, they see a stereotype, they see an image, and that was one example that happened there that showed that we really needed to do the kind of work we were doing at Towson, you know? Johnnella Butler (26:53): And it's not just Towson, it's every, you know, every... I've had similar incidents at other schools. Um, but that one, you know, struck me as- as really poignant, um, at Towson, and it's one that we dealt with. Allyn Lawrence (27:09): Thank you for sharing that. Johnnella Butler (27:10): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Allyn Lawrence (27:12): Um- Johnnella Butler (27:12): On one hand you have that, and the other hand, I had the Black students saying, "What are you gonna teach me?" You know? (laughs) You know. Allyn Lawrence (27:22): Um, so, what would you see as your greatest accomplishment at Towson State College? Johnnella Butler (27:29): Hm. Well, I tried to think about that. I think in concrete terms, I'd like to be remember that I was leading the creation of African American studies program. And that I made the difference in lives of students I taught, um, by connecting Black literature, American literature, their composition classes at 8:00 in the morning to their lives in Baltimore, as African Americans, Jewish Americans, Greek Americans, Italian Americans, white Americans, during a real conflicting time of integrating Towson. And then, the setbacks of the Nixon administration, 'cause it was a contradictory time. Johnnella Butler (28:18): In a more abstract way, I guess I would say, um... What would I say in a more abstract way? I always felt a certain connection with Towson, um, when I was there and when I left. I learned a lot there about academia, how to move through difficult situations. How to establish programs. However, in more sociological terms, I think my greatest accomplishment, I'd like to think, was sort of clearing a path for other to follow, who were minorities, maybe African American, maybe Asian American, who were women, but who have complicated, multi-faceted selves in addition to being that racial minority. To be seen as whole people. And, uh, and to- who bring their whole selves to an institution, with African American studies and curriculum change being a very important part of that. Johnnella Butler (29:19): So, I guess the other thing was, in 1989, I was invited, uh, Dan Jones invited me to keynote the Towson Workshop for Multicultural Studies and the curriculum. So, it was held on the day the English department was reuniting the American and World Lit Division. I don't know if- if that's... I'm sure that's written about. But, one day I was- went to an English department meeting and we were a whole department and then next thing, in that meeting, somebody asked me which side did I wanna be on? And I said, "What do you mean?" And they said, "Well, there's the Americanist and the World Lit," and they were splitting. Johnnella Butler (29:59): Well, I knew I was an Americanist and so I said, "Well, I would be an Americanist." But, it was clear that the choice wasn't really about the field you were in, it was about who you were and, you know, and who your allies were. And so, I had a peculiar position because I was an Americanist, I worked with George Friedman and- and, um, Dan and others. But, I sang at Lou Sheets' Church, he was the organist I sang for, and Lou was part of the World Lit. So they always sort of teased me about, you know, sort of being in between. But I s- I was with the Americanists. Johnnella Butler (30:35): And I came back to give that talk on the very day that the English department was reuniting. And, I think that experience, um, helped me and it helped my colleagues see that one can bridge many worlds. Um, that, you know, you could teach literature, do program development, curriculum transformation, music performance, racial and gender differences were there, and- and provide and example than invigorates others to accept challenges. Um, challenges to injustice and racism. Um, on the other hand, academic challenges like departments splitting and things like that. Johnnella Butler (31:21): So, that really wasn't an accomplishment of mine, but it's what I learned at Towson, and maybe I think others, um, um, experienced something from that. My husband and I considered returning to Towson. Uh, Dan wanted me to come there to be Dean of Humanities and for my husband, John, to be the Director of Honors. It wasn't convenient for us to do it at that time. I was taking care of my mom and all sorts of things, so we stayed in Seattle, we had just moved to Seattle. Johnnella Butler (31:51): Um, so, yes, I think, you know, the African American studies program, um, living a life as a faculty member there, as an instructor, um, and by my example, connecting, uh, that study content to other things on campus, is something that I- I hope I gave to Towson. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Allyn Lawrence (32:21): How did you decide that it was ultimately time to move on from Towson? Johnnella Butler (32:26): Well, what happened was, I mentioned earlier that Dan had tried very hard to piece together a full-time job, that's why I worked a counselor in the second bachelor program for a while. But he was unsuccessful, he couldn't get a position. Johnnella Butler (32:43): Secondly, I wanted to earn a Doctorate in African American Literature. And in those days, it was hard to get a doctorate in American Literature, much less African American Literature. And, I could not do that at Hopkins, 'cause when I was at Hopkins they offered me a scholarship to stay, but it was to study Milton. Well, I didn't wanna study Milton and Paradise Lost, that wasn't what I was doing. And then I said, "Well, this is perfect. I'll stay at Towson," 'cause my parents were... I grew up in Alexandria, Virginia, just around the beltway, so you know, home was close by. I had great aunts and uncles in Baltimore and stuff, so I would like to have stayed there. Johnnella Butler (33:21): Um, so I went over to talk to the English department chair at Howard, and she said to me that they would offer me a scholarship to study Victorian Literature, but no African or African American Literature. And I thought that was really strange because all these people were there that were founders in African American Literature. I found out later that she knew my father, and she said she wanted to protect me from all the battles I would encounter trying to do African American Literature. Of course, it didn't help. I went off to Massachusetts and I went into those battles elsewhere, you know, in another way. Johnnella Butler (33:59): But, I- so I couldn't stay at Towson because I, you know, there was not, uh, a full-time job and I couldn't pursue my studies there. And so Manny Maribel, who I had hired part-time, had an offer at Smith College, and he told me they were looking for a person in literature, so I interviewed for that and I wound up doing my doctorate at U Mass while I was at Smith, and then I became, uh, the first woman tenured faculty at Smith College. But, um, it was still an- an interesting journey. Johnnella Butler (34:37): I continued to sing. I think that kept me sane, actually. And, um, I was unable to do- I wasn't allowed to do the PhD in African American Literature, and I was very... As you can see, I'm very strong-willed, and so I found a professor in the English department that would be willing to chair an interdisciplinary committee for me. But I had to do that out of the College of Education. And so, uh, and then Bob Suzuki, who was an Asian American, one of the founders of Asian American studies was at U Mass at that time, so I was able to do what I wanted to do in, uh, African American Literature and discover more about multicultural studies there. So that's why I left Towson. Johnnella Butler (35:25): But I always, um, I came back to Towson and served on a, uh, what was it? A National Committee for Curriculum Transformation, for a while in the 90s. And, um, kept connections there until mostly everyone that I knew retired or passed. Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Allyn Lawrence (35:44): Do you mind reminding me what year you left Towson? Johnnella Butler (35:47): Oh, it was 1974. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Allyn Lawrence (35:49): Thank you. Johnnella Butler (35:51): So I was just there from '70- that, um, January, '71 through, uh, the end of '74. Yeah. Allyn Lawrence (36:02): And, is there anyone else you think we should talk to for our project? Johnnella Butler (36:07): Yes. You should contact, uh, George Pruitt, if you haven't. P-R-U-I-T-T. Uh, you can find him through... I know he was president at, um, Edison University in Trenton, um, New Jersey for a long time. He's retired now. Um, and there are three students, Edward Gatston, and he's on LinkedIn, but I can maybe, if I can find, uh, I can send you a connection with him. And then, um, Allen [Mosely 00:36:40], A-L-L-E-N, Mosely, and, um, Vicki Mosely, his wife, they were students there too. Yeah. Johnnella Butler (36:51): So they will tell you about how I was always just on the minute trying to get to my 8:00 class. And at that time, there was a drive coming down in front of Linthicum, to go into the parking lot. It's different now. And they'd see me speeding in my little Volkswagen to get there on time. (laughs) And other things they will tell you, I'm sure. (laughs) Allyn Lawrence (37:12): Are these the former students that you've kept in contact with? Johnnella Butler (37:15): Yes. Yes, they found me. Mm-hmm (affirmative). (laughs) Allyn Lawrence (37:17): Oh. Johnnella Butler (37:19): Yeah. Allyn Lawrence (37:23): So, that concludes all my questions. Johnnella Butler (37:27): Okay. Allyn Lawrence (37:27): Um, but I just wanted to thank you again, for being willing to do this interview with us and for sharing all of your stories- Johnnella Butler (37:35): Uh-huh (affirmative). Allyn Lawrence (37:35): ... and your wisdom. You are a remarkable person. I am very much in awe of you, so thank you. Johnnella Butler (37:42): Well, thank you, and I'm so happy you are doing this project. It's really good. Very, very good to know. Allyn Lawrence (37:47): Thank you. Johnnella Butler (37:47): And I will- I will email you those- the- the connections as soon as I find them, okay? Allyn Lawrence (37:52): Okay. Johnnella Butler (37:52): And nice meeting you, Ashley. Okay. Ashley Todd-Diaz (37:55): Nice to meet you as well, thank you very much. Allyn Lawrence (37:57): Thank you. Johnnella Butler (37:58): Okay. Take care. Allyn Lawrence (38:00): You too. This transcript was exported on Nov 30, 2021 - view latest version here. Oral History with Johnnella Butler (Completed 11/29/21) Transcript by Rev.com Page 1 of 2