Interview with Jennifer Langdon

Forward to the cloud. Puri, Roshani: Yeah, I did it. Okay. Puri, Roshani: I'm sorry for the delay, you know, for all the you know Langdon, Jennifer: it happens I'm fine. Thank you.

Langdon, Jennifer: And how's your, how's your morning? How's it doing? It's a. It's a typical Monday morning, which is a lot of email and a lot of things to take care of, but otherwise okay. Puri, Roshani: Good time. So your name is. Jennifer. Puri, Roshani: Right? So where you are, faculty or student in a thousand. I am a faculty member at Towson. I'm the chair of the Department of Sociology, anthropology and Criminal justice.

Puri, Roshani: So you're still more intelligent. Puri, Roshani: Yes, I still work at so when did you start? Langdon, Jennifer: I started at Towson in 2,001 as a part-time instructor. Langdon, Jennifer: and then I became a lecturer. It's a long and yes, simple question, but I got a long answer for you. In 2,005 I became a lecturer, which is a full time, but non tenure track position, and then in 2,000

Langdon, Jennifer: 2,006, 2,007, I guess. 2,007. I Langdon, Jennifer: became a tenure track faculty member. Puri, Roshani: And now I'm an associate professor, which means I have tenure. And that that happened in 2,011.

Puri, Roshani: Okay. What? What made. You didn't decide to to tell soon. Langdon, Jennifer: Come to, to to come to Towson. that's a good question. Actually, I before I became a professor, I worked in domestic violence. I worked at a domestic violence shelter. Actually, right here in the Towson area. And through that work I got to know a professor who's now retired, who worked in this department. Langdon, Jennifer: and she used to donate to the shelter. And then I got to know her because there was a domestic violence coordinating committee. That Baltimore County ran that had folks from universities and social services and government, and the prosecutor's office and the police. We all met monthly to kind of make sure that the response to domestic violence in Baltimore County was

Langdon, Jennifer: appropriate and, like fill in gaps and services and things. This was in the late nineties. Long, you know, whatever long time ago and cause. I worked at the shelter from about 1992 when I got out of college to about 2,000 or 1999 something like that Langdon, Jennifer: and anyway. So I got to know this professor, whose name is Mary and Cocky, and she got on the board of our shelter and as I was getting kind of towards the end of my time at the shelter because I was getting burned out. Not so much working with the women, but working, if within the system, and how hard it was to get Langdon, Jennifer: women who were victims of domestic violence, help Langdon, Jennifer: like with the government structures, the way they were such as what they used to call welfare, like getting women. Temporary cash assistance and getting women help with housing, like permanent housing and getting what it just seemed like. The system was just like you were always beating your head up against the wall. So anyway, I was getting burned out, and I and Professor Cockey said to me, Well, what do you wanna do now? You know that you're gonna leave

Langdon, Jennifer: at the place was called Acts A, CTS. And I said, well. Langdon, Jennifer: I always wanted to teach, and she said, Really, well, why don't you come over and teach at Towson? And I had been somebody who had come and been a guest speaker Langdon, Jennifer: at her in her classes, and she taught a class called Women and crime, and I would come, and she also taught a course on domestic violence, and I would come and talk about our program in the shelter, etc. So she's like, okay. So that's how I started part time. I know I have long answers to all your questions. But Langdon, Jennifer: So that's how I started part time at Towson, and like I said, I think that was 2,000 or 2,001 I can't remember exactly.

Langdon, Jennifer: and Langdon, Jennifer: I had a Master's degree at that time. My undergraduate was in women's studies. Langdon, Jennifer: which is why I was interested in domestic violence and issues of women, and and etc. Langdon, Jennifer: And I had a Master's degree from University of Baltimore. But then, when I started teaching part time. I was like, Yes, I this is really what I wanna do. Full time. And so I knew I needed to have a Phd. In order to do that, I mean I to get a tenure track position. I would need to have a Phd. So I went back to school.

I got into a graduate program at George Mason University. Langdon, Jennifer: and I did the graduate program while I chart part time, and I had a graduate assistantship. etc., etc., and then ended up getting a tenure track position. Here it was, and I still remember. Puri, Roshani: Well, I have a few questions to ask you, yeah. Puri, Roshani: so who? Who offered you the support in the moment? Studies that your family, your friends, you know.

Langdon, Jennifer: who got me interested in women studies. Is that what you're asking? Okay, Langdon, Jennifer: It was when I was in college. I you know I went to college at Wesleyan University, which is in Connecticut. Langdon, Jennifer: and it had a women's studies program. I when I started college, I wouldn't have considered myself to be a feminist at all like I had if I look back on it. I had very much like feminist Langdon, Jennifer: ideas, but I was kind of

Puri, Roshani: influenced by kind of the popular culture view of feminism, which was negative at the time, and I probably still is negative today. But at the time there's a lot of people who are like, Oh, feminists, you know, they're, you know, whatever like, they want special treatment for women, or as a certain kind of negative narrative. And I was in high school. I actually grew up around here. So I was in high school, and I mean, I always believe that, like well, women should be able to do anything they want. It's never like I was like women should stay at home with their and try to get married and find a nice husband or anything like that I mean, I was very like I was a very Langdon, Jennifer: I was a good student. I played sports, always thought it was really stupid that the the boys football team got all this great equipment, and, like the boys, had a better locker room than we did. And all this guy like. So I had very feminist kind of ideas, but I just didn't put the label on it. And then when I went to school, when I went to college, Langdon, Jennifer: At first I was going to be a Latin American studies, major, because

Langdon, Jennifer: well, that doesn't matter. But that was my first idea. And then I realized as that really was. So I tried like a lot of people. I tried a lot of different majors or 2 or 3, and ended up taking women's studies course just probably is what was, would be here be called the core curriculum just as a course elective that you know, in a certain area that I could take. and I really really liked it. Langdon, Jennifer: And so I took more courses. And then I ended up picking women's studies as a major. Puri, Roshani: So that's originally how I got into women's studies. No, nobody. Nobody got into you. Just you wanted to do. Yeah, I mean, I would say, like good professors. I had a particular professor who taught a course

Langdon, Jennifer: that was called feminist philosophy of science. She was a philosopher, and she did philosophy of science, but specifically she was a feminist Langdon, Jennifer: and I took that course and I just loved it. I loved the way that the course was run. We sat in a big circle. We were expected to, you know, read this pretty dense material, like philosophical stuff. Langdon, Jennifer: and then we would have these discussions. People would come in, they would be pretty much prepared. And I just Langdon, Jennifer: I she was very, very supportive of me as well like I wrote a paper.

I mean, we all, you know, write papers, but she was like you should submit this paper to this Langdon, Jennifer: conference. This is called Swip, which is society for women in philosophy. So I submitted this paper, and it got accepted, and I Langdon, Jennifer: flew out to Minnesota. There was a conf the conference was at Carlton college. and so I had that experience of like presenting at a conference. and she was just very supportive. I did my thesis with her. So I think she really

Langdon, Jennifer: her name was Ruth Ginsberg, but not the Ruth Ginsburg who's on? Who was on the Supreme Court totally different. Ruth Ginsburg, just to be clear Puri, Roshani: spelled it, but she really spoke to me, and at one summer Langdon, Jennifer: I stayed up at school this summer between my junior and my senior year, and we had, like a small group of folks, cause she lived right near campus and we would meet once a week and kind of have these philosophical discussions at her house.

Langdon, Jennifer: and she was just a great terrific professor. Puri, Roshani: She's she seems nice, I mean she, not you. She fools you so. Yes, she did. Yeah. Puri, Roshani: feminism. My dad was a surveyor, a land surveyor, so he had technical training, but never went to college.

Langdon, Jennifer: So when I told them I was going to be a women studies, Major. My dad was like, well, what are you gonna do with that? It wasn't so much that he was against feminism or against Langdon, Jennifer: women studies as much as he was thinking practically like, What do you do with that degree? So it was really very nice when I got out of college, and my first job was at a domestic violence shelter, and I could say like, Well, that's what you do with women's studies. Puri, Roshani: Still, let me still my father like when I say I'm bio major, and I'm minor in sales moment studies, you know, when I say I'm doing. You know, moment studies. And he's like, What do you do like you? You don't have anything like with that. You can't do anything with that degree. So I like Puri, Roshani: that in today's if it was more, you know, worse, and like nobody would support you, or you know your family, your friends. So I mean, you had a nice family didn't oppose you. You, I mean, yeah.

Puri, Roshani: Still, let now still want father. He doesn't like his leg. You can't do anything that you need to find something else, you know. Puri, Roshani: Yeah. Well, what do you think you want to do? I mean, maybe I shouldn't be asking the questions. But what do you want to do when you graduate? Puri, Roshani: I'm from, like, you know, from family. So there's like way too much they. They both schedule this. When we said, do this I wanna voice for them. Puri, Roshani: and it hit me. I don't. I don't! I don't! I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't know if I'm I'm I don't know if I'm going to be able to.

Puri, Roshani: The she's told she's a woman, and she's that you shouldn't be doing this. You can be doing this. It's like movements are supposed. Are we supposed to do this? And I mean, no, you can say that you can be saying this. Puri, Roshani: So II want to voice further communities for the round woman. So just trying to do something just little bit, you know Langdon, Jennifer: that's great, that's wonderful. Puri, Roshani: I do have some more questions for you.

Puri, Roshani: hmm! Puri, Roshani: What do you think are the most important contributions that you have made to the women's settings program at 1,000. Langdon, Jennifer: Okay? So Langdon, Jennifer: as I told you, I'm I'm technically my appointment is in the department of sociology, anthropology, and Criminal Justice, and how I got asked to be part of the women's studies. I think it's called affiliated faculty. So my appointment isn't in women's studies, but I do on occasion teach

Langdon, Jennifer: women's studies, classes, and or classes that are cross listed with women studies. So, for instance, right now, one of the the course I'm teaching is women, crime and justice. And it's cross listed. It's one of the choices that a women's studies major can pick to go towards their requirements, and perhaps a minor, too. I'm not as familiar with how the curriculum works and everything, the all the exact of it. So that's one way that I contribute is that I teach these affiliated courses that are in our Langdon, Jennifer: in our department and sociology, anthropology, criminal justice. But that can be cross listed with women, studies or not technically cross listed, but count towards women studies. Major. Another course that I teach that fits into that category is a course called Queer issues in crime and justice. And Langdon, Jennifer: you know how the sexuality studies or gender and sexuality studies. It's a sub is underneath women's studies. It's a it's

run by women studies. So that fits in that category. Langdon, Jennifer: Years ago. now, I was trying to remember before today when it was. But maybe like Langdon, Jennifer: within this building. So let's say, within the last 10 years I was asked to teach a graduate course on conflict and gender.

Langdon, Jennifer: and I taught it for the women's studies, women and Gender studies, graduate Program. It was women's studies, 670, Puri, Roshani: and on women and conflict or women in conflict resolution. Langdon, Jennifer: So I did that maybe 3 or 4 times. It was a summer course. so I always had small classes, maybe 4 to 6 students in the class. Langdon, Jennifer: My, my Phd. Is in conflict resolution. So, and I had done done work on gender, and how women approach conflict.

Langdon, Jennifer: it's a little essential is but differently, let's say, than men do, just, generally speaking, and also the roles that women have played in peace movements throughout the Langdon, Jennifer: the globe throughout the world. Etc. So that's what I taught that course on. So those are my contributions in terms of Langdon, Jennifer: you know teaching. Puri, Roshani: what courses in moments and gender studies program did you find the most interesting? And why?

Well, you know what? It's interesting? Because I teach the women and crime crime and justice class most consistently. Let's say over the last Langdon, Jennifer: whatever I've been here 20 years or something. I'm gonna say, that's the most interesting, because that's the course that I get to interact with women studies, majors the most. I mean, besides that graduate program, the graduate course that I taught, but I only taught that 4 or 5 times, and so I can't. It's kind of like in this little piece of history. But as I, currently Langdon, Jennifer: what I'm currently doing is, I love having women's studies majors in my class, because mostly I teach criminal justice. Students. We have their majors in sociology and anthropology, with the concentration in criminal justice. So most of the folks in the class

Langdon, Jennifer: the concepts of feminism are new to them well or relatively new, or they come in with the idea that, oh, feminists are like crazy, radical people who hate men like these these kind of really off popular culture ideas. So Langdon, Jennifer: it's really great to have people in the class who Langdon, Jennifer: already have that background and get it. And but I also love teaching the students for whom it's new concepts, because I feel like hopefully when they leave the course, even if they don't say, Oh, well, now, I'm a feminist, or whatever that they have some understanding of.

Puri, Roshani: You know the history of, and in this particular course of, the history of feminist criminology. Langdon, Jennifer: the idea of the ideas of why, like what kind of crimes women commit, more so than men commit? What their motivations are, and how that can differ according to gender. And of course we use intersectional feminism a lot, and talk about how it's really not just gender. Langdon, Jennifer: but it's the intersection. I'm speaking to the choir right. It's the intersections of, you know, gender and class and race and sexual orientation and gender identity and religion, and all sorts of other aspects, ability, status, things like that. So II really think Langdon, Jennifer: it's a great opportunity to introduce some folks to feminism and feminist criminology. But also I love having women studies folks in there. It gives me a sense of

Langdon, Jennifer: it reminds me of being an undergraduate, and and it's just always nice to have people in the classroom who are like nodding their heads. Yeah, yeah. And so that's fun. And I've I've had the opportunity to work with some women studies majors who are in the class, and do like on occasion, like an independent study with them, or or things like that. And that's been really fun as well really rewarding Puri, Roshani: a Puri, Roshani: how have how has change in discipline of moments and gender studies affected the way that you teach and let what you teach. Langdon, Jennifer: That's really interesting, because I mean, obviously, I was. I was in college from 1988 to 1992, and at that time the it was just the beginning of, I guess. Well, at least, as I see it, like what would be called third wave feminism. We were just really talking about post modern feminism, and we really hadn't come across. I'm not saying that

Langdon, Jennifer: intersectionality didn't exist, but it wasn't really part of the Langdon, Jennifer: the the canon yet. It really wasn't part of what we were being taught in class. It was kind of before that era. Langdon, Jennifer: So we talked a lot more about Langdon, Jennifer: what they call cultural feminism back, then, which we don't talk about like. Usually when I present feminine the different kinds of feminism to my students, I don't even include that anymore.

Langdon, Jennifer: so that's something that's changed. Langdon, Jennifer: But generally thinking about talking about the history and the different waves of feminism. Of course, now, many people consider us to be in the fourth wave of feminism, whereas that didn't even exist when I started studying the the new, the new, I'm gonna say new. But the more Langdon, Jennifer: widely recognized forms of feminism. Like I said, intersectional feminism like I said, Womanism, which did, of course, exist. Back then we did read, but it's become much more predominant now, like black feminism. Langdon, Jennifer: Things like that. It's much more of a part of what I teach, and yet

Langdon, Jennifer: I still teach the different. I still teach liberal feminism and radical feminism, and you know the differences between them and Marx's feminism and Socialist feminism. And there's just more to teach beyond that, you know. So that's fun. Langdon, Jennifer: And what's interesting to me is, in a way I don't think the the pushback against feminism on the Langdon, Jennifer: level of society like in mainstream society, has changed that much. Does that make sense like, I still get students that come into the class and think that you know feminism is a bad word that in some ways it's the f word I don't know like ha! Ha! That's supposed to be a joke. Langdon, Jennifer: And so in that way I don't think it's that

Puri, Roshani: S. In some ways things haven't changed. Does that mix? Does that? Puri, Roshani: I still feel like I have to do some convincing sometimes that like look, feminism isn't a bad word, right? I mean, there's still there's some people who fit into that, or you know it. It hasn't changed. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it makes sense. Puri, Roshani: So you identify yourself as a feminist. Right? Langdon, Jennifer: I do just find myself as a feminist. Okay. II told some of it already in a way right like how when I if I look at myself when I was in high school, I definitely had feminist ideals, and and I, you know, was very much, for, like well, women or girls should have the same kind of opportunities that boys do and like, even before

Langdon, Jennifer: you know, title 9 was such a big issue in terms of sports funding and things like that which it's a little in the news so much now. So this was in the eighties. Okay, even then I was like. Langdon, Jennifer: like I said before, I was like, I don't understand why the boys sports get better equipment than we do, why, they have bigger locker room. Why, all this money goes into football. and that was at a high school. I went to a public high school, and so, like I had all the marks of a true feminist. Right like Langdon, Jennifer: women are capable women are. And and I really put that in a way to my mom because my mom was a a working mom. She was a nurse. So she did that classic kind of double shift where she was. She worked.

Puri, Roshani: you know, a hard and difficult job for 8 12 h, and then came home, and then did the hard and difficult job of you know all the things at home that you do like cooking the meals and doing the laundry, and, you know, quote unquote raising the kids and all of that. So she was really very much like a positive role model, although she herself didn't see herself as a feminist either. So like I said it wasn't until I went to college, and I was really exposed to Langdon, Jennifer: women's studies as as a Langdon, Jennifer: this field, right and exposed to feminism as a field academic a way of thought. And I really understood it, not just the really surface popular culture views of what feminism is, but really started to understand the history of why feminism

Langdon, Jennifer: needed to happen Langdon, Jennifer: and why we still need feminism, and that I started to identify as a feminist. And really so, since I was about 19 or 20, I'd say I I've identified as a feminist. Langdon, Jennifer: and if you ask me what kind of feminist I am, I would say I'm definitely an intersectional feminist. Langdon, Jennifer: I really think we do need to look at not just gender. When we look at systems of inequality that we need to look at all the

Langdon, Jennifer: intersecting for lack of a better word, forces of inequality, and how they affect people's lives and the choices that folks are able to make Puri, Roshani: you mentioned about like local rooms. That voice having rooms. Now on Thursday we just tell, and and we one of my classmates they mentioned about in volleyball. It's the same same phone, right? Like movements. They have some way. And the justice source. And men did. Puri, Roshani: They need to wait. So it's sort. It's it's the same sport. But it's the the the world. The like close. The way is totally different. We'll be just talking about like how like how it's seen. Puri, Roshani: For in the women's perspective, you know, it's it's they don't get everything they want. It's it's so different. And

Puri, Roshani: and one of my classmates he was talking about. She she works in this. And so, man. They have, like Puri, Roshani: so many aisles, like different brands, aisles, and women. They just have one aisles and just nightly, and they don't have much much, you know. Puri, Roshani: So we we where we just thought it was so interesting to see like even now, even now it's not late. Puri, Roshani: Everything is April. Even so even now it's so. I'm it's so mind going to think, you know. Yeah.

Langdon, Jennifer: it was only a couple of years ago. I mean, we have. I mean everybody's very aware of title 9, I mean, not just in terms of sports, although we're very aware of, like the the equity in terms of sports funding, and how title 9 affects that. Langdon, Jennifer: And of course there's other aspects of Title 9. But it was just, and I'm not never good with remembering dates, but was only a couple of years ago, where it was the the women's and the men's the big tournament that they have in March for college basketball march. Madness that where they had the women's they there was this big story, because, like it was about the accommodations that the men got when when they were at the the venue for all the tournaments. Puri, Roshani: and like what their training room look like and what they're da. And then the women's training room was like this one little room like in a hotel. Yeah. And it was, I mean, and you're like. Langdon, Jennifer: this is with title 9 being

Langdon, Jennifer: around for such a long time now, and it's very much in everybody's consciousness if you go to college, or even in K through 12, right Puri, Roshani: And still there was this tremendous inequity. And Puri, Roshani: what is what is like? Some advice that you will give on to someone who is Puri, Roshani: which try to do the woman's studies in like who's trying to go to in the field of woman cities? You have some advice to give.

Langdon, Jennifer: Hmm! I mean. it was transformational Langdon, Jennifer: for me, I mean, just in terms of how I looked at the world. Langdon, Jennifer: What I chose to do originally, you know, working in domestic violence, and then

Langdon, Jennifer: I feel very fortunate that I was able to then come and Langdon, Jennifer: teach. I mean, even though I'm not in the whim. I'm not a women study. I'm not in the women's studies program officially, but as affiliated faculty. I'm really glad that's part of what I get to teach. Langdon, Jennifer: what advice I would give. I mean, what's interesting advice that I was given in terms of becoming like an academic right and becoming a professor was, people told me, don't get a Phd. In women studies or in also in conflict resolution, because what they said and this is more so. Anyway, let me get it out, and then I'll explain what I mean. Langdon, Jennifer: because they're not traditional fields. Does that make sense so conflict? Resolution is much newer field than women's studies? But the idea was that what I was told by other professors that were my mentors was that you're never gonna be able to get a job?

Langdon, Jennifer: There are a lot less jobs like women's studies programs that are hiring right? So if I had gotten my Ph. D. In women's studies, there's so many fewer programs out there Langdon, Jennifer: in women's studies right? Langdon, Jennifer: That I would be less employable than if I got my degree in a traditional field like sociology or anthropology, or even criminal justice. Langdon, Jennifer: because there are a lot more jobs out there, academic jobs that are out there. Not that one is better than the other, but just like that was a very practical piece of information. I would like to say that that's no longer true. But I think it still is. Yeah, I mean, we we? There are women studies. Phd programs out there. I mean, University of Maryland, of course, has one

Langdon, Jennifer: and we have a you know, the oldest women studies program in Maryland. That's what at Towson. Langdon, Jennifer: but Langdon, Jennifer: you know they're a very small department. They're about 5 full time faculty. I could have my numbers Comp. Little off, whereas, like our department has 28 full time faculty. So if you just think about that in terms of hiring opportunities. Langdon, Jennifer: there's going to be a lot less hiring opportunities in a, in a, in a department that has 5 faculty members. Right? There's just a lot less opportunity to get a job. If with a Phd, let's say in women's studies, cause more than likely. And this has been my

Langdon, Jennifer: experience since. Being here. Like, if a sociology program is looking for somebody. They're looking for somebody who has a Ph. D. In sociology. Langdon, Jennifer: Even if somebody has a Ph. D. In women's studies and has done a lot of research, etc., etc., Langdon, Jennifer: on sociological issues and has sociological, you know, methodological training, etc. Langdon, Jennifer: programs are still gonna want to have that degree in sociology. Same with criminal justice, same with anthropology. They're gonna be less likely to hire somebody who has a degree in something that isn't

Langdon, Jennifer: their their degree. Does that make sense? Langdon, Jennifer: So? I don't know, I went on and on, but I still think that's true, like I think you can study. I hate saying this because I believe in women's studies. I love women's studies. Langdon, Jennifer: and I still think practically Langdon, Jennifer: the academic level there. Women studies is still marginalized, and it's not as they're not as big of programs. They're not as well funded programs. I think we've seen a real back, even a bigger backlash against women studies programs since.

Langdon, Jennifer: I'm gonna say, since maybe I'm gonna bring up the trump administration, or just generally, there's a pushback against Langdon, Jennifer: higher education in general. But I think there's also a very. There's a political narrative out there that says that Langdon, Jennifer: higher education is indoctrinating students into the leftist way of thinking, and I think women's studies gets very much lumped into that like, what programs should we get rid of? We should get rid of women's studies programs because they're not really teaching knowledge. They're teaching politics, and of course disagree with that. Langdon, Jennifer: And I think it's a reality at at the same time.

Puri, Roshani: So what do you think would be done to attract more students to the women studies program. Okay? In a way, I think it's gonna ebb and flow with the political winds of Langdon, Jennifer: the larger culture.

Langdon, Jennifer: And I do think that having women studies courses that are well taught and interesting and fascinating in the core curriculum. Puri, Roshani: we'll bring in Langdon, Jennifer: more majors. Langdon, Jennifer: I mean one of the one of the things that I liked about my women's studies courses in college, which, of course, was many years ago. Was that

Langdon, Jennifer: that opportunity? Of course I was a nerd like I love school. Not everybody who's here love school, you know. Some people are here because their parents said, you will go to college, and they didn't really have a choice. But II really love school. I was a good student. Langdon, Jennifer: and I love the opportunity that I got in a women's studies class which was to share points of view that were then backed up with research and ideas. And Langdon, Jennifer: I just loved it. It really piqued my academic interest. I do think that there's a part of

Langdon, Jennifer: education that's Langdon, Jennifer: so maybe a little controversial. That's entertainment. Langdon, Jennifer: In the mean that Puri, Roshani: students have to be engaged like, and

Langdon, Jennifer: that can mean a whole lot of different things. I'm not saying it needs to be trendy, or it needs, or like a professor, needs to be a stand up comedian or anything like that. But I do think that Langdon, Jennifer: if we let folks know that women's studies gives you the opportunity to really be engaged in your learning and to create. One of the things I love about women's studies is Langdon, Jennifer: the concept that there isn't

Langdon, Jennifer: one necessarily one truth, right? That there are different perspectives like standpoint, epistemology and postmodern epistemology as parts of Langdon, Jennifer: like the world. There's just so many perspectives which we which are marginalized and aren't considered. I love the opportunity that that women's studies embraces, or at least in its ideal form, and embraces all of those perspectives, and I don't think you see that Langdon, Jennifer: I'm not saying anywhere else in the at Towson or in the Academy, but not very many other places. I think that's something that's unique about women's studies. Langdon, Jennifer: I don't know. What do you think you're I mean, you're currently studying it.

Puri, Roshani: Oh, for me, I think. Puri, Roshani: anyway. Puri, Roshani: And and the fact you don't see like main thing in womanstage class is like most of like 95% is all women. You don't need to see men in your in woman studies classes. So I think if I were to like you know. Puri, Roshani: I think it should be a requirement. I guess one woman study staff. It should be a requirement. Every student, every mentally, should say, a woman study staff. I think it will make a big difference.

Puri, Roshani: I feel that way. Yeah. Puri, Roshani: this will be more men, because I think it's men who think feminism. It's not woman. Some of the women like Puri, Roshani: from like my grand grandparents, or even my parents. Not but it's not our generation even, but men, our generation. They think feminism is a bad word that is led. Puri, Roshani: You don't do anything within. So, as it mentioned, especially men should say,

Puri, Roshani: it's a must Puri, Roshani: into Mosnia. I would agree. Puri, Roshani: so you didn't have trouble finding a job after graduation. Nothing right?

Langdon, Jennifer: No, I mean. Langdon, Jennifer: II can see where people do. I mean in the job that I got. I got Langdon, Jennifer: I got a part time job working at the shelter. Langdon, Jennifer: So that was part time. And then my first full time job was, I actually worked for the YWCA. So

and they did had a program that was science and math education for young girls in Baltimore City. Langdon, Jennifer: And so I got that job as a program director. Puri, Roshani: And so I was really lucky, I mean, but II see where other people I mean the same thing Langdon, Jennifer: that makes people say, feminism is the F word, or what is women studies? Or what could you do with women? Studies like when you go and apply for a job, and that's on your you know, Major End. That could be a way that people discriminate against you. Right? So I just feel that I was very fortunate that that I was able to get a job, so to speak, in my field.

Puri, Roshani: I personally, I wanted to let do major in moment studies. I told you earlier, like my dad, he wasn't like big fan of me doing so. Woman studies mind doing in famous studies. So I had to do something else. I mean, I love doing like Bio and everything. But I wanted to do major in woman studies. But like my my father, he was like. Puri, Roshani: there's nothing you can do with it. Just don't mind even doing minor. He's like you should change your mind or like you should do something else. So I had to do bio, and then do minor moment studies. So I mean, yeah, it. It's a even now. It's very hard to find a job. When you have a main major in woman studies, it's not easy like it's easy finding it off as a nurse or something else, you know. Puri, Roshani: Yeah.

Langdon, Jennifer: So I mean, you might be really interested in. I don't know what you're doing in terms of in feminist theory class. But and that's what this this is for right. But I loved the I told you about my professor, who taught feminist philosophy of science like that might be interesting Puri, Roshani: place for you to think because you're in science right? And I'm sure in some ways you experience, and I don't know. I don't mean to put words in your mouth. But science as a very gendered Langdon, Jennifer: place, right like there's still a lot of push to get women into stem jobs, and it's still very male dominated and white male dominated, etc. Langdon, Jennifer: And what I found fascinating was like, if you look at how we think about what we know, and I'm getting nerdy here, but like just the whole concept of how do we know things?

Langdon, Jennifer: And who can know things, and what kind of things can they know? That's all very gendered, and that's on this kind of meta level, you know, whereas I think in working in sciences, you probably feel that in some way, too, like, how is gendered? And and anyway, just Puri, Roshani: trying to do a little plug for I mean, II keep in mind. II think about it. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like. Puri, Roshani: so I think about it. Puri, Roshani: I told you my my dad is in. Yeah, exactly. You've got to. I mean, when somebody else is paying. I mean, I'm assuming, you know, like in it's family. What the family wants you to do is very

Puri, Roshani: influential. Yeah, he's hoping me. So you know I didn't. Yeah. Puri, Roshani: so if you will do that, everything again, will you do everything from start? Langdon, Jennifer: Yeah. Yep. Puri, Roshani: And you love 30

Puri, Roshani: you you you are. Puri, Roshani: you are not. Woman studies, major. Right? You need to major in woman studies if you wanted to, you would do. If that, then, if you, if you could change that, would you change your major and do measuring Langdon, Jennifer: right? So undergraduate? I was a major in women's studies. But then, my graduate degrees. You're right, are not in women's studies, but I always was able to incorporate classes about gender in my master's degree, and then in my even in my Phd program. Langdon, Jennifer: would I be a woman? Would I have gotten a a degree like a a Ph. D. In women's studies?

Puri, Roshani: If you could do, would you? If I could do it over again. Langdon, Jennifer: I mean, I certainly think I would have loved the work I would have loved like who I was surrounded by, and all of that. But I'm also not really a person. My personality wise to have regrets. So I just kind of like I am who I am because of what I've choices I've made, and so I don't tend to second guess myself. Langdon, Jennifer: Least I try not to so in that way. I'm I'm happy. I mean, I'm very happy with where I am. I'm happy that I get to teach Langdon, Jennifer: courses that are affiliated with women's studies.

Puri, Roshani: I would I would love to be. I mean, I would be happily be a woman studies faculty member. Langdon, Jennifer: But that's just not where I ended up. Does that make sense? I'm happy. I'm happy where I ended up, so I feel like I'm pretty lucky. Puri, Roshani: What do you see as the reverence of a woman's and gender studies in to day's world. Langdon, Jennifer: It's it's absolutely relevant. I mean. And to me the the story that the things that you're telling me the account of of you know the pressures that you've had from your family in terms of you. Sure you wanna do that, or you shouldn't do that

Puri, Roshani: tells me that it's still relevant. Because if people are telling you, you shouldn't do something, then it's probably relevant. Langdon, Jennifer: Yes. Puri, Roshani: at a Puri, Roshani: how did other students or faculty in moments and gender studies inspire you.

Puri, Roshani: Intelligent? Langdon, Jennifer: A 1,000. Langdon, Jennifer: I really worked with Professor Dr. Kissing Danner. Who's teaching your course, right. She was the chair of women's studies up until a couple of years ago. Langdon, Jennifer: and I'm in the same. I don't know. Like if you've ever come to the main office, the suite for for women's studies. My office is in that same suite, and before I became chair

Langdon, Jennifer: I was assistant chair. So in other words, we were office mates, okay? And during that period of time, and that was like 2,018 when I first started being assistant chair, and Dr. Gisson Danner was chair of women studies. We just developed Langdon, Jennifer: a, you know, a professional friendship, and I got to know her better like. Always knew who she was, because she's been here many, many years. But I didn't really have the opportunity to interact with her. So it was such a great opportunity to be able to interact with her. And Langdon, Jennifer: so she's really been a Langdon, Jennifer: person that I look up to in some ways a mentor. Like, I said. I'm the chair now. She was the chair. I don't think I would have thought

Langdon, Jennifer: that I could be a chair if I hadn't seen how Professor Doctor Gissender, that that's something that she was able to do. And and she gave me a sense that Puri, Roshani: that yeah, I could probably do that, too, if I want to. Puri, Roshani: What courses in women's and gender studies present, will you find most interesting courses? Yeah. Puri, Roshani: I actually would love to take the feminist theory class that you're taking now.

Langdon, Jennifer: just because I would want to read like, get Langdon, Jennifer: updated on Langdon, Jennifer: the literature and spend the time on it that I don't have the time to do with like teaching things, etc. So I'd love to see like what's still taught, and I'd love to see what is now incorporated. Puri, Roshani: and I think I would I would love to take the feminist theory course. That was one of my favorite classes as an undergrad. So I'd love to take it now, and just see what's different

Puri, Roshani: that. What you let you you teach in 1,000. So what is your favorite to teach? Well, like I saying before, like, I really like teaching the women crime and justice class, it's Langdon, Jennifer: it's relevant, it's current. I mean, women are still Langdon, Jennifer: disproportionately victims of intimate partner violence, rape Langdon, Jennifer: sexual assault, sexual harassment. So I so I think that's really important

Langdon, Jennifer: stuff for people to know and learn, and it's always relevant. I mean, just last week Langdon, Jennifer: the there was oral arguments in the Supreme Court around a domestic, a gun case actually about a person who had a domestic violence restraining order against them, and because of that their weapons were taken from them, and Langdon, Jennifer: blah blah blah won't go into all the other parts of it. But the cases in front of the Supreme Court right now to see whether the Supreme Court considers it to be constitutional to take away somebody's weapon who has a domestic violence restraining order against them. So Langdon, Jennifer: this stuff is going on in the news right now. So I love that I can incorporate all of that into my class.

Puri, Roshani: And Puri, Roshani: so what feminist thing a writer has been most Puri, Roshani: influential in shaping you about. Let's send in you about feminism. Honestly, I'd have to say Donna Haraway. I don't know if you're familiar with her. It's okay. If you're not back when I was in Langdon, Jennifer: college. She was, she wrote th this essay, which at the time was considered to be like a a landmark essay called the cyborg manifesto or a manifesto for cyborgs.

And she's a feminist philosopher of science. I wrote my undergraduate thesis on her. She really opened up my eyes to a lot about feminist Langdon, Jennifer: epistemology and feminist philosophy of science. Reading her is really difficult, but fun. Langdon, Jennifer: Because she writes in this very or this very kind of creative. It's academic, it's clearly academic, but it's just in this different kind of form. And I think that

Langdon, Jennifer: I just will always. She's probably the person who in some ways someone who I've never met, or whatever who really hooked me into Langdon, Jennifer: feminism, academic feminism. Puri, Roshani: I see. Puri, Roshani: I think we? I have also answered your question. So, okay, terrific.

Puri, Roshani: Yeah. I think we should be doing now. Yeah, okay, so what do you do now? I will. Once we Langdon, Jennifer: once we get off and I'll get a link or whatever to the recording, I'll send it to you. Okay, I will email it to you Puri, Roshani: the I just I had flash. II went last this morning Puri, Roshani: and I had to interview you, and okay.

the Puri, Roshani: and thank you so much for the interview. I know that you haven't. It's so difficult to manage the time for, so II really appreciate it sounds good. Puri, Roshani: Thank you so much. Bye, bye, bye.