- Title
- Interview with Jaye Knutson
-
-
- Identifier
- teohpKnutson
-
-
- Subjects
- ["Physical education","Towson State University. Department of Dance","Education -- Study and teaching","Universities and colleges -- Faculty","Teachers","Dance"]
-
- Description
- Jaye Knutson graduated from the University of Nevada - Las Vegas in 1982 with a bachelor's degree in Physical Education, Dance Concentration. Ms. Knutson worked in public and higher education before accepting an Artist-in-Residence position at Towson University in 1989. She is currently a Professor in the Department of Dance.
-
-
- Date Created
- 14 November 2013
-
-
- Format
- ["mp3","mov"]
-
- Language
- ["English"]
-
- Collection Name
- ["Towson University Teacher Education Oral History Project"]
-
Interview with Jaye Knutson
Hits:
(0)
Video Player is loading.
Current Time 0:00
/
Duration 0:00
Loaded: 0%
Stream Type LIVE
Remaining Time -0:00
1x
- 2x
- 1.5x
- 1x, selected
- 0.5x
- Chapters
- descriptions off, selected
- captions settings, opens captions settings dialog
- captions off, selected
This is a modal window.
Beginning of dialog window. Escape will cancel and close the window.
End of dialog window.
00:00:11.160 - 00:00:25.290
Jaye Knutson graduated from the University of Nevada, Las Vegas in 1982 with a bachelor's degree in Physical Education, Dance Concentration. Miss Knutson worked in public and higher education before
00:00:25.290 - 00:00:35.160
accepting an artist in residence position at Towson University in 1989. She is currently a professor in the Department of Dance. These are her reflections.
00:00:37.320 - 00:00:52.650
Miss Knutson, thank you so much for taking your time to come in and talk to us about your own preparation to become a teacher and your career as an educator. This will broaden our understanding of teacher
00:00:52.650 - 00:01:08.330
education at Towson University across time. I think a good place to begin is in the beginning. So if you would, would you share with us a little bit about your early social context, where you grew up, what you were
00:01:08.330 - 00:01:18.000
thinking about as you approached high school, about a possible career, whether you would go on to college, and that sort of thing. Great.
00:01:18.120 - 00:01:31.000
Yeah. Well, I grew up in Las Vegas, Nevada and I loved school. School was a sanctuary for me. It was a place where I felt really good about myself and I
00:01:31.000 - 00:01:44.920
loved the relationships. I felt it was a nurturing, fostering environment and I enjoyed doing well. I was eager to do well in school and it was probably in middle
00:01:44.920 - 00:02:00.720
school that I thought first about going to college. I'm a first generation college graduate in my family and to my knowledge probably still the only one that has gone to college in my family.
00:02:00.720 - 00:02:16.640
Interesting. And I think it was middle school that I really felt strongly that I would, I wanted to go to college if I could, that education was really the key to a better quality of life.
00:02:17.240 - 00:02:30.000
And so I didn't know what that really meant. I think I was rather naive. You just did good in school and you went to college. And that's pretty much, that was pretty much my approach to it.
00:02:30.560 - 00:02:44.520
And as high school came around, the the high school staff and teachers had systems for identifying students who wanted to go to college. And I said I did.
00:02:44.520 - 00:02:58.880
And they just automatically, at that time, they tracked students and they made sure that I knew what courses I would need to take and I took them. And when it came time, I graduated with fairly decent
00:02:58.880 - 00:03:12.570
grades and applied to college. I took the SATs. I had no idea really what score I needed. It was really quite serendipitous that I guess I
00:03:12.570 - 00:03:29.150
got good enough scores and I was accepted to my local college. I went to the University of Nevada, Las Vegas and never really thought more about that. I just was grateful that I got in and off I went to our local
00:03:29.150 - 00:03:39.080
school. But a big campus nonetheless. Even though it was your local school? Well, it was, I guess it was a big campus at that time.
00:03:39.360 - 00:03:51.160
It's much bigger now than it was then. But I had nothing to relate it to. It was just a university. I had no idea whether, how it was big or little compared to
00:03:51.160 - 00:04:02.200
others. And when you started, did you have a sense of what you might want to major in or what kind of career you might want to pursue? I did.
00:04:02.200 - 00:04:15.800
Although, you know, as I went through my public school education, there were so many things that I thought I might do, you know, as youngsters consider all kinds of things, their flights of fancy and imagination.
00:04:17.040 - 00:04:27.050
But I had studied music. I'm very grateful for being a product of the public school music programming. And I thought at some point that I might be a professional
00:04:27.050 - 00:04:41.820
musician, but didn't really appreciate the glamour of my instrument, which was the clarinet at that time. And I thought that's not, you know, really, a clarinet? No disrespect to the clarinet, it's a wonderful instrument, but
00:04:41.820 - 00:04:53.480
I didn't know that that would, I wanted to play it for my entire career, and the thought of retraining on another instrument, I don't know, wasn't very attractive. So I was fairly good at math, I thought.
00:04:53.840 - 00:05:10.120
And I thought, well, maybe I'll go into the math disciplines. But after the first semester in math, I realized that I wasn't quite as adept at math that I thought I was and that retraining or relearning would take a lot more time and
00:05:10.120 - 00:05:27.710
enthusiasm and passion than I felt I really had for math. So I really didn't pursue a major as I first went into college. But what happened was at that time you had to take
00:05:27.710 - 00:05:43.720
physical, complete physical education requirements. And so I took a jazz dance class and I fell in love with the whole concept of dancing and the idea of being involved in an art form.
00:05:43.720 - 00:05:58.340
I had practiced music for many years, so I knew kind of what that was about, the discipline and the performance and the training and I just fell in love with it. And oddly enough, I really didn't tell my parents for
00:05:58.340 - 00:06:11.160
probably two years that I had selected the dance as a major. And at that time it was in physical education. So it was really an education degree in physical education with a concentration in dance.
00:06:12.960 - 00:06:27.750
But I really didn't have any reason to worry because my parents were just happy that I was in school and doing something that I wanted to do. And so it didn't really matter to them what I was studying as
00:06:27.750 - 00:06:43.720
long as it was something that I really wanted to do. And so I loved everything about dance. And I just launched a full pell- mell, all eggs in one basket, you know, as I guess a second semester freshman in college.
00:06:44.840 - 00:06:58.600
Now, you said this would be a degree in physical education with a concentration in dance. What kind of... I should ask you, do you remember any of those education courses?
00:06:58.600 - 00:07:06.320
Do you remember being in schools before... I assume you had to do some kind of student teaching internship experience. Absolutely.
00:07:07.360 - 00:07:20.960
Honestly, it's not so different than the models today. Physical education adhered to a certain curriculum required by the College of Education for state certification.
00:07:20.960 - 00:07:35.360
And so there were tiers, hierarchies, of course, of curriculum and coursework. So I... Educational psychology special education, because my certificate was K12,
00:07:35.360 - 00:07:51.800
there was early childhood activities and games, Nevada state law. There were, there was, I think, probably something equivalent to a survey course, but not so unlike the K twelves.
00:07:51.800 - 00:08:05.050
Now they have a a core of professional education courses that they take in addition to those discipline-specific, which I had. So we had the conservatorial curriculum, you know, learning
00:08:05.050 - 00:08:18.600
to dance, learning about dance, learning through dance, the theory, the technique, the choreography. And then we had pedagogy courses in teaching dance. And then you did an internship.
00:08:20.000 - 00:08:32.360
So, and that pretty much mirrors what we're still doing today. That was in the early 80s. And here we are in 2013 and the model really hasn't changed that much.
00:08:32.680 - 00:08:46.200
Now you said this certification was K12 and so did you have an opportunity to do some teaching, student teaching at different grade levels? Do you remember that?
00:08:46.200 - 00:08:58.960
Well, there was, there was little. That has changed significantly. There was a lot more observation leading up to an internship than actual teaching experience.
00:08:59.320 - 00:09:12.760
You know, we did peer teaching, which is still a part of, you know, our practice, but there was very little opportunity, structured opportunities to practice teaching before the official internship.
00:09:13.000 - 00:09:27.940
We were encouraged to do teaching and in dance many of us did teach in, like, small community programs or after school or things like that. But maybe it's studios, but there wasn't anything structured
00:09:27.940 - 00:09:46.160
or systematic as part of the teaching certificate until the internship. And do you remember yours? I do remember mine and I remember it was very, it was
00:09:46.160 - 00:10:10.280
dramatic and intense and it was wonderful to be able to work closely with a mentor in the classroom and really kind of crystallize the theory that you talk about and you practice with your peers, but it's not really in an authentic setting.
00:10:10.680 - 00:10:26.500
So to really be in an authentic setting and really apply principles of good teaching and having someone really coach you one-on-one, minute by minute, day by day, is really priceless. And there's nothing, really nothing that can substitute for
00:10:26.500 - 00:10:36.320
that. And was that experience at the secondary level or elementary? It was at a secondary school.
00:10:36.480 - 00:10:47.390
Yeah. It was at a high school. And so at the end of that experience, or even as you were going through it, did you have a sense that this was a good
00:10:47.390 - 00:10:59.080
professional fit for you, that this was really and truly something that you wanted to pursue? It was. I had no dance experience before college.
00:11:00.000 - 00:11:19.240
I am really the exception to many of the rules. Although I will say that many of my professional colleagues in the modern genre of dance, that is not as uncommon. But I loved everything about it.
00:11:19.280 - 00:11:36.330
I loved the teaching of it. I loved the thinking about dance for the purpose of teaching. I like the interaction with people and kids. I loved... It was reminiscent and of my own happy memories of
00:11:36.330 - 00:11:56.520
being in school. You know, just the whole community of learning and being positive and nurturing, nurturing kids to learn new things and in ways that brought them satisfaction.
00:11:56.520 - 00:12:12.350
And, you know, I remember how I felt when I learned something new and I was, you know, mastered it or I got it right or something, and how good that felt. And the process of learning new things and being able to share,
00:12:12.350 - 00:12:24.360
kind of foster that kind of learning environment through dance was very exciting to me. I love choreography, I love dancing. I love talking about dance.
00:12:24.360 - 00:12:38.720
I like dance research, I like dance history. I just love everything about the discipline and teaching was just a very natural component of that for me. You're at the end of your program.
00:12:38.720 - 00:12:58.830
What are you looking for in terms of a position? What kinds of jobs are you applying for, and what did you wind up doing after you left your undergraduate program? Well, honestly, coming from a blue collar family, my primary
00:12:58.830 - 00:13:14.720
interest was in working in the field. That was the bottom line. I wanted to work in the field, and I felt like my undergraduate education had prepared me to be diverse.
00:13:15.240 - 00:13:30.490
And so I had lots of options. And I didn't really, I didn't really focus on any. I just cast a wide net. I thought, performance, of course, was most exciting to
00:13:30.490 - 00:13:47.680
young people in the arts. But, you know, I had a credential for teaching and I had an interest in many areas, so I didn't really know. Again, I was, I say "again," later I'll explain why, I thought I
00:13:47.680 - 00:13:59.170
would probably move to California. It's the West Coast. It's a, you know, probably the next to New York it's probably the most artistically dense area of our
00:13:59.170 - 00:14:17.110
country. But for personal reasons, I ended up moving to Oahu, Hawaii, and I found myself in a very unfamiliar culture. And so I didn't really know how I was going to navigate or, you
00:14:17.110 - 00:14:27.520
know, maneuver there. But what I did was I immediately made contact with the University of Hawaii at Manoa, and they have a dance program. And I started taking class.
00:14:27.520 - 00:14:45.120
And through there, U of H was really kind of the central processing facility for dance in the community. There was a lot of dance going on, but for Western theatrical dance, everybody kind of came through there one way or
00:14:45.120 - 00:14:56.470
another. So that really hooked me up with who was doing what in that community. And I became known, made friendships, networked, and so I
00:14:56.470 - 00:15:09.840
got work as a performer in the James McEwan Ballet Company. And I did work for independent modern dancers. And there was a a fairly small but consistent commercial community there
00:15:09.840 - 00:15:26.520
because Hawaii is a destination for conferences, and so they would always hire talent for that. And because I was diverse and I had a lot of skills, I would kind of access that as well.
00:15:26.520 - 00:15:38.200
So I had my hands at a lot of pots. It wasn't long after that that I decided to apply for a graduate degree in dance at the University of Hawaii. And then I did.
00:15:38.440 - 00:15:49.440
And so kind of making the choice to move to Hawaii put me in a community where I had to take stock of what the resources were there, what were the possibilities. And I went to what I knew.
00:15:49.440 - 00:16:04.920
I went to the university, and that university was connected with the community in such a way that I was able to build relationships and networks that evolved into employment and working in the field.
00:16:04.920 - 00:16:17.070
And so that's what I did. So you were mostly, you were completing a master's degree and you were performing. So at that point there really was not so much of the teaching
00:16:17.070 - 00:16:27.040
element. Sounds like you were learning at that point. I was. You were the student. But I was invited to teach at the Betty Jones and Fritz Luden
00:16:27.040 - 00:16:38.320
Dance As We Dance studio. So I taught ballet there for several years. Betty Jones is a really celebrated pioneer modern dancer.
00:16:38.760 - 00:16:52.720
And I also taught at the Queen Emma Arts Center with a colleague, one of which is now my colleague at Shenandoah University, Erica Helm. She was directing that program and she invited me to teach.
00:16:52.720 - 00:17:03.080
So I was doing private teaching while I was going to school and performing. So you really weren't out of teaching? I've never really been out of teaching.
00:17:03.080 - 00:17:18.240
I've always had my hand in teaching in one way or another, not as a primary focus necessarily. And at that time, you know, Hawaii school systems didn't really include dance as a fundamental curriculum.
00:17:18.880 - 00:17:35.000
So there was some dance going on at the private schools like Punahou, but really it was a hit or miss and ordinarily a project initiative where artists would go in for a short term residency or something of that sort.
00:17:35.000 - 00:17:42.840
But there wouldn't be anybody in dance on staff. No, not at that time. That has changed over the years, but not at that time when I was there in the 80s.
00:17:43.800 - 00:18:00.440
And how long did you stay in that kind of situation and what took you away from that? I was in Hawaii for six years and I left for personal reasons. I graduated from the institution.
00:18:00.560 - 00:18:15.120
When I went into Graduate School, I was accepted and offered a lectureship position with tuition remission. So I was teaching there at the university for three years while I was doing my graduate work as a lecturer.
00:18:15.640 - 00:18:36.600
They called them lecturers at that time. And so I graduated, my personal life changed and I pretty much, I would say, infiltrated all of the dance in the Hawaiian Islands was wonderful, but it was a lot, doing several
00:18:36.600 - 00:18:59.460
different kinds of things to maintain an income. And I really wanted to be simplifying my work and into one or two endeavors. So I now had, you know, I had a teaching certificate, I had my
00:18:59.460 - 00:19:11.840
graduate degree and I had my skill sets. And so I just cast another wide net just like I had done when I came to Hawaii. I thought, well, I can perform or I can teach.
00:19:12.080 - 00:19:23.760
I'm going to, you know, check out all of those opportunities and I'll see what comes up. And I thought if I didn't get a position teaching, I would move to San Francisco.
00:19:23.760 - 00:19:32.970
I have relatives there. You know, I grew up kind of, you know, Nevada is adjacent to California. So I was familiar with that arts community, and I was offered a
00:19:32.970 - 00:19:44.480
job here at Towson, and it was very attractive to me being in the Northeast, close to New York and Philadelphia, and being in the East. I had never been here.
00:19:44.480 - 00:19:58.120
And you know, the legacy of Towson is it with its teaching institution. I thought certainly this would help inform my own teaching practice and teach me things I hadn't learned before about
00:19:58.120 - 00:20:13.120
that, and that the arts community would be rich and full as it has been. And so I chose to come, and I've been here ever since. Yes.
00:20:13.200 - 00:20:28.320
And so this was a big change. East Coast living is remarkably different from Nevada and California and certainly Hawaii. So what were you assigned, when you came in,
00:20:28.320 - 00:20:41.040
what was your charge? What were you responsible for? Well, I came in as a a visiting artist in residence and it was an assistant professorship.
00:20:41.440 - 00:20:55.120
And so my workload really was the same as everybody else's, except I did not serve on PTRM committees, but I still had a similar teaching load. I still served on committees.
00:20:55.400 - 00:21:16.360
And 1990 or 91, I assumed responsibility for the K through 12 state certification program because at that time I was really, as I came in, I was really the only one that had formal background in teacher education and I was eager to do
00:21:16.360 - 00:21:32.170
that. I was very excited to do that. And after five years, when the new college Dean, Alex Sidorowicz, came to campus, he suggested that my my assistant
00:21:32.170 - 00:21:43.360
professorship artist in residency be converted to a tenure track line. And so that happened. Wonderful.
00:21:43.360 - 00:22:00.800
And not much changed with my work, with my workload, except I went through, you know, the very well worn path of promotion and tenure over time. And the content of coursework shifted for me.
00:22:01.160 - 00:22:17.710
Of course, I had assumed responsibility for the the K12 program and I was teaching pedagogy courses along with my chairperson, Karen Bradley. But I originally had come to campus with the responsibilities
00:22:17.710 - 00:22:25.440
of teaching all the jazz and tap curriculum because I had those skills. They weren't necessarily my passions, but they were my skills.
00:22:25.440 - 00:22:39.680
And I enjoyed that for quite some time. But gradually my workload shifted into the realm of modern dance, which is in Labanotation and movement analysis, which are really my areas of interest.
00:22:41.320 - 00:22:48.440
I would love for you to tell us, educate us a little bit about the latter. Labanotation. Yeah.
00:22:48.480 - 00:22:58.720
Labanotation is dance notation. And it was created by a man, an Austrian named Rudolf von Laban. And Mr. Laban
00:22:58.720 - 00:23:15.320
created a whole system of movement analysis that's called Laban analysis that is used to observe, analyze, describe, and interpret movement from a very specific framework, theoretical framework.
00:23:15.520 - 00:23:32.710
And Labanotation is the part of that system that documents movements. So it's a system of symbols and staffs that document the actions in space and time of movement, and all movement, the
00:23:32.710 - 00:23:46.520
blink of an eyelash, the very intricate nuances of finger movements like in Indian dance of Bharatanatyam. It can be used for sports, and has, physical therapy and whatnot.
00:23:46.520 - 00:24:00.560
It just has been used primarily for dance. And I found that fascinating in Graduate School. Even, it was particularly fascinating because I was never, I was not officially accepted into Graduate School until I had
00:24:00.560 - 00:24:08.440
taken a level 1 course in Labanotation, I was considered deficient. My undergraduate degree was considered deficient until I took that.
00:24:08.440 - 00:24:21.880
And of course, I took that and several other courses as part of the graduate degree. So this is really sort of recording movement, some kind of... It's a sort of like a musical score.
00:24:21.880 - 00:24:41.820
Well, that's what I was just going to ask. It's not, it's an aspect of dance literacy that is not widespread and the dance community. But I feel for me it was, it profoundly improved my ability
00:24:41.820 - 00:24:55.640
to self assess and observe movement and interpret it in my own body, which is what dancers do all the time. You know, they observe movement and then they translate it into their bodies.
00:24:55.720 - 00:25:16.520
And sometimes that translation can be changed through personal interpretation, what I see, what I don't see, what the deliverer performs or doesn't perform, their own technical or stylistic inclusions or exclusions.
00:25:16.520 - 00:25:36.810
So there's always something lost in the translation. Whereas in the Labanotation, the dads, as it is intended, is recorded. And so your reading of that kind of diminishes what is
00:25:36.810 - 00:25:47.840
could be lost in translation. Although, remember, even notation has a certain translation because I as the notator have certain biases to see or not see certain things.
00:25:47.840 - 00:26:04.960
But it was a fascinating, it's a fascinating aspect to dance. And I think it really fostered my understanding and knowledge and appreciation of dance beyond the performance, creative,
00:26:04.960 - 00:26:28.440
choreographic component into the more scholarly analytic areas. So another question, educate us further. If you create a dance, a ballet, Swan Lake, and you are the composer of that dance, the creator, how do you know where
00:26:28.440 - 00:26:44.800
that dance goes and how it responds to music? I mean, you had mentioned a musical score and a musical score for a conductor has what everybody's doing. I mean, it is somewhat overwhelming, but there is
00:26:44.800 - 00:27:01.320
documentation of what note everybody should be on when. If you are creating a dance, is there something comparable or, you know, how does this happen? It really strongly parallels music and musical
00:27:01.320 - 00:27:15.640
score runs horizontally and you have a horizontal staff for each instrument or group of instruments. In dance, it's the same thing. Except the staff runs vertically from bottom to top.
00:27:15.640 - 00:27:28.930
So you read it from bottom to top versus left to right, like you would read on the page, but you would have a staff for each performer, for each group of performers. And so a composer or a conductor reads those sequentially or
00:27:28.930 - 00:27:45.610
simultaneously depending upon his familiarity with the score or his artistic, aesthetic intent for direction or following. And a dance conductor would do the same thing. They would focus on one performer's staff or maybe two or
00:27:45.610 - 00:27:58.890
three depending upon, you know, what the rehearsal was about or what the performance. Or he might glance at all of them simultaneously. But the dance conductor would do it vertically, whereas
00:27:58.890 - 00:28:12.680
a musical conductor would do it horizontally. And so it's the same principle, basic principle. The music and the dance correspond in time because they operate in measures with time signatures.
00:28:13.880 - 00:28:31.880
We're very comfortable with the shape of notes indicating time value. In dance, it's the the length of notes that determine time value. Very short symbols are short, take short durations of time.
00:28:32.120 - 00:28:45.830
Very long symbols take long duration of time all within, relative to a time signature. So a quarter note might be a symbol this big. So every symbol this big would correspond to the value of a quarter
00:28:45.830 - 00:28:57.280
note depending upon what the tempo is. Whereas the same thing on a musical score, you know, a quarter note gets a has a certain look, every quarter note looks the same and it has a certain value.
00:28:57.360 - 00:29:13.240
So that way the score and the, the musical score and the dance score correspond. In a dance score proper, you would have both, but you would also have the musical score running vertically along with
00:29:13.240 - 00:29:25.120
the dance score so that you could, the dance conductor could reference the musical rhythm if they chose to at the time. Right. You could read both together. You could read both.
00:29:25.120 - 00:29:31.600
Which is hard if one's going vertically and one's going horizontally. Well, the notes don't go vertically. The notes stay horizontal.
00:29:31.600 - 00:29:43.880
So like if you turn the vertical dance score horizontally, you would see the musical score. But yeah, I mean, there are peculiarities to it and making those systems marry coherently.
00:29:43.880 - 00:29:54.680
But when you learn it, it's very helpful to to be knowledgeable about music at that point. I would think so. Which I was, so it was a really lovely companionship for me.
00:29:55.720 - 00:30:18.160
Now, if... So, when you came, you were teaching a variety of things, but you were also preparing people, students, in dance, to become dance instructors. And was this, were you in schools a lot?
00:30:18.160 - 00:30:33.440
Are you in schools a lot to do that? Yeah, more sometimes than others. We... Typically about half of our dance majors who come to Towson to receive the Bachelor of Fine Arts degree in dance performance
00:30:33.440 - 00:30:50.080
elect the state teacher certification option. And so at any given... Most of our interns complete their internship in the fall because it's a four and a half year program with the half year as their internship.
00:30:51.000 - 00:31:02.240
But sometimes, you know, as you well know, students take a little longer sometimes and so they might do their internship in the spring. So I would share the university supervision depending upon how
00:31:02.240 - 00:31:14.620
many students we had, how many interns we had out in the schools, I would share my university supervision with my colleague. So usually every year I'm out in a school with one or two, at
00:31:14.620 - 00:31:25.440
least one or two students. And that would be both in an elementary placement and a high school placement because that constitutes the K12. Right.
00:31:25.520 - 00:31:31.080
But in this case, they actually do experience work in both schools, both grade levels. Yeah.
00:31:31.120 - 00:31:44.320
They do seven or seven and a half weeks in an elementary setting, and then halfway through, they shift to a high school setting. So they get the full range. And how often are there dance faculty on school staffs?
00:31:45.040 - 00:32:00.160
Well, Maryland is a very progressive state in that regard because we have many of our counties that have well articulated full-time dance instructors as part of their staff, primarily at the high school level.
00:32:01.200 - 00:32:18.040
Anne Arundel County, Howard County, Baltimore County, some in Harford County, Montgomery County, Prince George's County have the most widespread dance staff. And this is this true in Baltimore City as well?
00:32:18.040 - 00:32:35.330
It's not as true in Baltimore City. It's not as true in Carroll County and some of the Eastern Shore counties, lthough there are the odd schools who value that and have taken steps to provide that for their students, but it's not
00:32:35.330 - 00:32:48.390
widespread. And for our interns, it's really good for us in one way because we can make sure that our interns study in an environment where they're getting a full-time curriculum,
00:32:48.390 - 00:33:02.880
full-time mentoring, which they need. So that's really the, the criteria for our placements is, you know, high quality dance instruction with someone who's teaching full time dance curriculum in the school.
00:33:03.920 - 00:33:16.040
And might that dance instructor have more than one school assigned to her or him? Not usually, not usually. It is the case in Baltimore County occasionally,
00:33:16.040 - 00:33:29.290
particularly at the elementary level to have a dance professional migrate from one school to another. But typically it is not the case. Typically they are either a full time or a .5 or a .75 or
00:33:29.290 - 00:33:43.890
whatever position at that school itself. I don't know of many that work at several schools. That's not the norm. It does happen, but it's not the norm as a rule.
00:33:43.890 - 00:33:56.600
Over the course of your career here at Towson, if you sort of look retrospectively at things, how has teacher education, particularly in dance, changed, do you think?
00:33:56.920 - 00:34:15.060
I mean, earlier you had suggested that it really wasn't that different than the program you went through and what we've been doing rather consistently over time. Well, I think one of the things that has changed is that there
00:34:15.060 - 00:34:33.550
are more opportunities for young pre-professionals to get field practice before they do the internship. You know, the general education programs of course have gone to the professional development schools, which I think has been
00:34:33.550 - 00:34:45.400
a wonderful contribution to their teacher preparation. However, the arts don't have that opportunity because they're not as widespread. We can't, you know, throughout the system.
00:34:45.680 - 00:35:02.570
So it's... Most of those field experiences are, well, they're valued. I will say, I see them as being highly valued by my colleagues in the arts, K12 arts, but satisfied from a
00:35:02.570 - 00:35:18.910
variety of ways, you know, individual professor projects and initiatives that provide dance or art education in a school setting. And so those initiatives usually include their students, as, you
00:35:18.910 - 00:35:38.090
know, to help deliver or be in the classroom, that kind of thing, collaborations that the dance or the arts education professors make with other teachers. It's really quite, I'm going to say haphazard and creative, you
00:35:38.090 - 00:35:51.120
know, in the ways that we kind of finagle getting our kids out and also providing arts education for, you know, the public school population. Sure. It's creative.
00:35:51.200 - 00:35:57.400
It's very creative. Yeah, yeah, it's very creative. But we're doing it. It's essential, it's important.
00:35:57.400 - 00:36:18.470
We see a huge difference in students. For myself, I teach primarily the early childhood dance preparation and so we service our own university daycare kids. I just concluded a project with Port Discovery where they
00:36:18.470 - 00:36:31.080
brought preschoolers from underprivileged families and schools to Port Discovery and we service provided STEM education, dance and creative movement through environmental science to them.
00:36:31.080 - 00:36:42.690
And our students commuted once a month, twice a month down to Port Discovery. And that was really rich. And I would say every student commented that that was one of
00:36:42.690 - 00:36:57.790
their favorite parts of the class was being able to go down and actually interact with kids in a field that they love. And how did that interaction take place? You mentioned Port Discovery, you mentioned STEM,
00:36:57.790 - 00:37:13.560
which I don't think of in the context of dance because we're thinking science, technology. Well, I think it was an initiative of our previous Provost and Port Discovery had been targeted.
00:37:14.600 - 00:37:28.600
There was money available. That helps. They were trying to get someone to get engaged and I ended up being it. And so I have had a kind of, I had a growing relationship
00:37:28.600 - 00:37:39.440
with Jane Wolf in environmental science here at Towson. Interesting. And so I got her excited about it. I brought her in.
00:37:39.440 - 00:38:02.610
I built a curriculum team, myself and Jane Wolf and a certified dance educator and a member of the TU University daycare center, and we built curriculum around using creative movement as a delivery system for learning about environmental
00:38:02.610 - 00:38:14.540
science based on the Maryland standards. And so really, the tree was our focal point. You know, we learned empathy for the tree. We learned about, the tree has different parts not so unlike
00:38:14.540 - 00:38:28.040
ours, the canopy, the trunk and the roots. We have legs and a torso and a head. The kinds of things that the trees give us, you know, shade and fruit, and animals live in trees.
00:38:28.360 - 00:38:42.080
The different things we make from trees, you know, so we learned a lot about our friend the tree, and in that way, developmentally appropriate concepts, environmental science, through creative movement.
00:38:42.080 - 00:38:55.760
And we danced about the tree and we danced with our canopies and our trunks and our roots. And, you know, we made things with our bodies that symbolize those that the tree makes or gives us or provides for us.
00:38:55.760 - 00:39:13.800
And in that way, we hope that youngsters realize that these concepts are important concepts in and through their bodies and through learning about them through movement. So it was very fun.
00:39:13.800 - 00:39:25.040
It was great fun. And we're hoping to have a year two working with the the Center for Health and well-being next spring. But these are the ways that we do it.
00:39:25.040 - 00:39:41.400
You know, these are the ways. We build relationships. We concoct ideas that really provide our students, have our students as an essential element. Which actually was going to be, was sort
00:39:41.400 - 00:40:00.390
of going to move to my next question. As I said, sometimes you answer one in answering another, which was, and this seems to be particularly true of the fine arts, that your involvement is so much beyond just the campus
00:40:00.390 - 00:40:16.440
that you professionally are outside that, that parameter, that boundary, if you will, which just really isn't there. And it sounds like that you're doing, that you're involving your students in that as well.
00:40:16.680 - 00:40:32.800
So, and in terms of professional organizations, they seem to be a source of education and professional development for you as well as students. Absolutely.
00:40:33.520 - 00:40:46.400
Could you talk a little bit about those kinds of things that are beyond the campus? Well, you know, being involved in professional organizations is about being involved in your professional community
00:40:46.640 - 00:41:00.750
in my mind. We have different concentric, you know, rings of community. You know, my own department faculty is one community, my college is another, the campus
00:41:00.750 - 00:41:19.600
is another, education is another, the community, you know, the nation, the international global community. These are all communities of my discipline that have a lot to bear and share with me
00:41:19.600 - 00:41:28.600
that impacts my perspective on dance. What's new, what's changing, what are new thoughts? What are, you know, what's so and so doing over there? Wow, that's very exciting.
00:41:28.600 - 00:41:41.230
I'd never thought of that. I wonder how that would work here. How would that translate to the benefit of our students here? I mean, my feeling is we are here for the students, but at
00:41:41.230 - 00:42:00.090
the same time, fostering my own professional development, my own curiosity, my own enthusiasm for my field translates to my enthusiasm and curiosity for my students. And I need them to know what's going on in this discipline,
00:42:00.090 - 00:42:17.060
what's current, what's... History is important, legacy is essential, but innovation is also important if we really want to be able to foster the richest learning community for our students and support our discipline, you
00:42:17.060 - 00:42:31.490
know, create support and interest and appreciation and value for our art form. There has to be awareness and knowledge and currency. And so I see professional organizations as an important
00:42:31.490 - 00:42:46.340
resource for me to keep abreast of what's current and to foster my own curiosity. And it's important for my students because I bring that back to them, you know, that they can be assured that
00:42:46.340 - 00:43:00.930
they are getting the information that is really happening out in the field that is representative of what's happening in my art form or what's happening in the in the larger community of dance that they're going to be working in, that they're going to be
00:43:00.930 - 00:43:13.040
shaping and actually inheriting. They're really inheriting those communities for others. Yeah. What haven't we talked about?
00:43:13.760 - 00:43:30.860
What kinds of things that you have in your notes that you want to make certain that we know? You made a comment about not really thinking about the arts being involved in STEM, and I take few positions, but I do
00:43:30.860 - 00:43:47.000
take the position that movement is a primary learning tool. You know, before we are verbal, as we are born, before we're born, we are in our bodies. Our bodies are developing.
00:43:47.000 - 00:44:03.380
We are learning about, through our senses, about things that we have no language for, we have no real conceptual base for, we have sensation, and sensation and bodily knowledge is our primary way of knowing
00:44:03.380 - 00:44:23.390
the world when we're born and as we develop. And, you know, Piaget saying that all thought is internalized action, you know, even though as our minds, our cognitive skills develop, and we're capable of abstract thinking, really, that
00:44:23.390 - 00:44:39.000
abstract thinking is grounded in physical experience. We have an imagination of what it means to pick up a cup. We have a physical experience of what it means to be under a chair.
00:44:39.320 - 00:44:53.760
These, they just get suppressed as our, you know, cognition has more strength and is more nimble, I guess, we don't need to experience the physical of a notion.
00:44:53.840 - 00:45:03.960
We can imagine it, but it is still grounded nonetheless in physical experience. And so I believe that the body is a source of learning for everything.
00:45:04.360 - 00:45:19.680
And like the STEM research, I mean, if you want to learn about the solar system, I can make a dance about the solar system. Kids can experience orbits by orbiting around each other. They, all they have to do is dance it and and they learn in
00:45:19.680 - 00:45:35.080
and through the body. So my belief and what I try to promote to all of our students, K12 and college and beyond, is that the body is a source of knowledge and learning.
00:45:35.080 - 00:45:47.920
And it can be applied to anything as long as you have an interest and a desire to do so. And it's a very powerful tool. Everyone likes moving their bodies, up to a certain point.
00:45:50.080 - 00:46:05.190
Once they've become, once people have become so distanced from their bodies as a source of learning and understanding, then there's... An inverse relationship happens. They become less comfortable in their bodies, using their bodies
00:46:05.190 - 00:46:21.840
as a source of learning and knowledge. My goal is to promote the body as a source of learning and knowledge and fostering it and strengthening that to help get over those humps where they are not being asked or encouraged to
00:46:21.840 - 00:46:33.320
do that. So that's my thought. It's just knowing that the body is a kinesthetic, very powerful, our primary way of knowing the world, you know, from the get
00:46:33.320 - 00:46:41.720
go. And it still has power no matter how old you are or what context you're learning. So I think that hasn't been said.
00:46:41.720 - 00:46:54.120
And I'd love for that, I'd love to put that out in the world for others to think about. Well, you certainly are already by sharing that with us. But that might be...
00:46:54.160 - 00:47:01.040
Well, I guess this is what your career is in many ways. It's educating us about such things. Absolutely. Yeah.
00:47:02.760 - 00:47:15.880
You know, the body is our authentic tool for expressing and learning and knowing and sharing. And thank goodness that it fosters, I mean, it really pushes the neurology, right?
00:47:15.880 - 00:47:32.660
We move and the mind processes and we learn, oh, if I do, if I put my hand over there, it's hot. Or oh, if I do that, we call it this, you know, there's this kinesthetic sensational neurological push of cognition
00:47:32.660 - 00:47:53.090
and that is constant throughout our lives. In fact, my current research and practices on how creative movement, the the principles of creative movement reflect the fundamental adult learning and cognition using Mark Johnson and
00:47:53.090 - 00:48:11.720
George Lakoff cognitive linguistics theory of the visual schema. And I find that is, I hope that's going to be a really powerful way of thinking about how important movement is to
00:48:11.720 - 00:48:19.560
learning. So it's not a, it's not an enhancement. It is a fundamental way of learning. It's fundamental.
00:48:22.360 - 00:48:35.080
I'm passionate about that. I can tell. Anything else? Well, you know, there was one, the final question that you had given me about what wisdom would I share,
00:48:35.640 - 00:48:57.960
for individuals who are considering a teacher and career, and I think I would say, be passionate about your discipline, have compassion for working with young people and a recognition of human frailty as a part of that.
00:48:58.480 - 00:49:15.760
I would say listen more. And I would say that what I've learned and what I relish is that learning is messy. It's very messy, you know, and it's loud and noisy, but that's
00:49:15.760 - 00:49:32.490
when things are really taking place, when everybody's engaged. That's what engagement is, messy and loud and busy. And people are, you know, really engaged in learning. And I would say respect your students and don't make
00:49:32.490 - 00:49:40.480
assumptions about motivations. Don't make assumptions. It's so easy. I find even myself after years, you go, oh, I've seen that
00:49:40.480 - 00:49:48.000
before. And it must be X It's not always X. You know, every child is different.
00:49:48.040 - 00:50:06.240
And just when I think I know what's going on, typically I discover that's not at all what it is. And hopefully I discover that before I intervene inappropriately.
00:50:06.960 - 00:50:17.680
So I would say that. Well, we thank you for saying all that you've shared with us. Thank you. I appreciate the invitation and the opportunity.
Interview with Jaye Knutson video recording
Interview with Jaye Knutson sound recording