Interview with James Newton

Proctor, JoRon: Alright. Todd-Diaz, Ashley: Right. Proctor, JoRon: Alright, so I'll start off with a quick introduction first. So my name is JoRon Proctor. I'm currently going into my second year of grad school here at Towson. I'm studying global humanities, and it has a track in archives. Proctor, JoRon: I also went here for my undergrad as well. So I majored in history and also minored in biology. I know that's a crazy combination. But aside from that in this moment, right now for the summer. I am a researcher for the Unearthing Towson History project, and just a little bit about what I'm researching is about just

Proctor, JoRon: research in the decade throughout the sixties and seventies of some of the 1st black athletes here at Towson University. So yeah, so you can go ahead and introduce yourself. James Newton: I am James N. Newton. I'm a 1968 graduate in mathematics James Newton: from Towson. Proctor, JoRon: Awesome, awesome, all right. And so we're going to get right into the questions. So first off, what made you choose Towson State college?

James Newton: Several things. One, James Newton: it was affordable, because James Newton: back in the sixties the teachers pledge existed, and so if I pledge to teach in Maryland James Newton: for at least 2 years,

James Newton: I could go to school tuition free. Proctor, JoRon: Oh, ok. James Newton: And if I didn't live on campus, and I did not. I was, in those days, that called it James Newton: a day hop, I was a commuter, and so I could,

James Newton: well, initially catch the bus to go to school. Proctor, JoRon: Okay, Proctor, JoRon: awesome. And so you - Proctor, JoRon: does that mean you lived in the nearby area, or you live in Baltimore County?

James Newton: Not really. I lived - I lived in Baltimore City. I lived in West Baltimore, James Newton: and, James Newton: but I also have a sister who was a senior at Towson James Newton: when I enrolled,

James Newton: and so, Proctor, JoRon: Oh, okay. James Newton: I knew a little about the school from from my sister. Proctor, JoRon: Gotcha, gotcha!

Proctor, JoRon: Alright, and so, Proctor, JoRon: what were your initial impressions about attending Towson State College at that time? James Newton: Initial impressions? James Newton: A. It was very white.

James Newton: And I grew up in a neighborhood that was James Newton: all black. James Newton: I grew up in West Baltimore, are you from Baltimore? Proctor, JoRon: Oh, no, I'm from Prince George County, but I am familiar with the area.

James Newton: Okay. So I grew up in West Baltimore, which was, James Newton: as far as I was concerned, all black, James Newton: and James Newton: so the initial impression was, oh, it's a white school, but my high school was

James Newton: majority white, so that, that was nothing new. James Newton: Initial impressions. James Newton: I thought that academically, James Newton: I was surprised I wasn't

James Newton: challenged as much as I thought I was, I would be, and so James Newton: I guess it speaks to the James Newton: good preparation that my public high school gave me. I went to James Newton: Baltimore City College, and it was, and is still a very good high school. So

James Newton: that's it for first impressions. Proctor, JoRon: Okay, alright. Proctor, JoRon: And then as far as getting into basketball. So can you tell me a little bit about like, how did you get into playing basketball like? What was the process for getting on the Towson's team? James Newton: Well.

James Newton: I was a playground basketball kid James Newton: and James Newton: I guess I spent many a day on the, James Newton: on the basketball court at Easterwood Park, which is a park in West Baltimore.

James Newton: and so James Newton: I decided to try out for the team. James Newton: I had no prior experience. James Newton: I went to a high school that was all male,

James Newton: there were, I don't know. Enrollment was like 2,500, and so, James Newton: to pick a team of 12 the coach had James Newton: a lot of options. James Newton: And I didn't even go out for the team then, as a matter of fact,

James Newton: um, James Newton: I guess, because I think I was a year younger than my peers. James Newton: I didn't even go out for the team. As a matter of fact, James Newton: I don't think I could play as I entered high school, and so

James Newton: going out for the team James Newton: was, James Newton: was sort of fun, and I mean I took it seriously. James Newton: But,

James Newton: I mean, I really, really hoped that I'd make the team. But James Newton: if I hadn't made it, it would not have been a big surprise. Proctor, JoRon: Okay, alright. Proctor, JoRon: And so once you did, however, make it onto the team, how did your teammates receive you?

James Newton: I guess James Newton: the way the the guys on the on the court James Newton: and say a lot received me. I mean, James Newton: there were no, certainly there were no racial

James Newton: repercussions of oh, he's a black guy, so we got, we've got to be different. Proctor, JoRon: Ok. James Newton: Now, that's what I perceived now, behind the scenes in in the dorms and in their world there may have been something different, but I mean I was, James Newton: I was on the team to play basketball. They were on the team to play basketball and

James Newton: I think that I was received James Newton: well. Proctor, JoRon: Okay, great. Proctor, JoRon: And then also, as I was doing a bit of research, I also came across one of your other teammates as well. Maceo Dailey, and I was hoping if you could tell me a little bit about him as well, and his experience or your experience working with him on the team.

James Newton: Sure Maceo was a real basketball player, I mean, James Newton: how was it, I was a mathematics major, who liked to play basketball James Newton: I don't know what Maceo's major was, but he was a very, very good basketball, certainly, compared to me, James Newton: He was a very good basketball player. He played at High School. He played at the the Forest Park High School, I believe, and then he played

James Newton: Junior college for a couple of years, and then he came to Towson, and so James Newton: he was star quality. James Newton: And I was happy to be on the team because I was not star quality. I enjoyed the game but I certainly wasn't of the caliber of Maceo Dailey went on to become James Newton: a college professor

James Newton: and at the University of Texas at El Paso. James Newton: I think he chaired his department. James Newton: Maceo was passed now, James Newton: but I've certainly learned a lot from from Maceo.

Proctor, JoRon: Okay. Cause that was like, that was actually snowballing into my next questionm like, what was his overall contribution to Towson State's team at the time, and just overall to the local community as well? James Newton: What was Maceo's overall contribution? Proctor, JoRon: Yes, like like. What position do you play as well on the team, and just like in general, like, how did he contribute to the morale of the team, and beyond? James Newton: Well, unlike me, Maceo got to play because of my first year. I didn't get to play much, but Maceo was,

James Newton: I'll say Maceo was the star of the team, I mean. I think he was. Proctor, JoRon: Ok. James Newton: Probably the high, high scorer. James Newton: He was a little guy, I mean.

James Newton: Well, I guess, compared to basketball players. Now all of us were little. But Maceo James Newton: was a team leader. James Newton: I certainly looked up to him. And James Newton: you you could see that the coach was very happy to have him on the team

James Newton: as far as this contribution to James Newton: the school in general. I remember James Newton: Whitney Leblanc, who was, James Newton: I guess, in the drama department, got Maceo to be in a play. I think the play was

James Newton: "The People All Around", or something like that, James Newton: and I think in the play, James Newton: I don't remember what the subject of play was, but I think that in the play he had James Newton: a white girlfriend.

James Newton: and I do remember, for the first time in my life I saw a Klan rally. James Newton: And there's a Klan parade that marched down York road James Newton: protesting James Newton: this play. And so

James Newton: that was an interesting experience in my young life. Proctor, JoRon: Okay, I think I definitely saw something about that in one of our - one of the boxes up here in the archives. Proctor, JoRon: Definitely, like, 'cause we do have some material as well featuring Whitney LeBlanc. So I definitely probably have come across at some point. So that's that's very interesting. James Newton: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, that was,

James Newton: I guess I was 17 at the time, and so James Newton: it wasn't that. It was unnerving. James Newton: I knew the Klan existed, but I'd never seen James Newton: those guys in numbers in real life.

Proctor, JoRon: Okay, and did like, did the Proctor, JoRon: well, I guess Towson athletics in general. Did they, like, release any statements at that time about their arrival on campus? Did they, like, Proctor, JoRon: did they offer any, like, support systems or services to you all? James Newton: No, no, they sort of ignored them. I mean they marched

James Newton: down York Road and James Newton: I don't know what they said or what they did, but they, I mean, James Newton: no, they they pretty much ignored them. Proctor, JoRon: Okay, alright.

Proctor, JoRon: And so Proctor, JoRon: to circle back Proctor, JoRon: to, I guess, like, other sports as well, because I've just been, like, researching, like, as much as possible about everything. So football, Proctor, JoRon: soccer, cross country, things of that nature. Were there any other sports that you were interested in?

James Newton: Well, James Newton: as a freshman, James Newton: I was. I was asked to be upon the track team James Newton: other than...

James Newton: and it was for a few weeks. James Newton: I was a high jumper James Newton: and James Newton: it was a very short lived career.

James Newton: We, I think we were in Washington College in Chestertown, Maryland, for a scrimmage, James Newton: and James Newton: the scrimmage was sort of a free-for-all, you could participate in more than one activity. I was a high jumper. James Newton: And I remember that that one of the

James Newton: shot putters, a big, burly guy from James Newton: Washington College, came in. I had 3rd place at the time, James Newton: and uh, James Newton: he decided to try jump, and he beat me. He beat me out of 3rd place, and though

James Newton: I remember the coach, James Newton: Dr. Melville, I think his name was, tried me out doing lots of things. I was gonna relay. James Newton: I think the 400 relay, and James Newton: he tried me on several things, and so

James Newton: I decided that track was not for me, and so I concentrated on mathematics. James Newton: There was a coach of the soccer team. At that time, James Newton: Towson did not have a football team. James Newton: Soccer was the the big sport in the fall, and I just remember that the

James Newton: coach of the soccer team kept asking me James Newton: to, uh, James Newton: be a goalie, James Newton: because I didn't know this, the game of soccer. And he kept asking me to be a goalie,

James Newton: and I think that was because of my reflexes, or, anyway, he saw something that made him think I'd be a good goalie, James Newton: but I didn't like the idea of standing there and have people kicking balls at me. Proctor, JoRon: (laughing). James Newton: It's so honestly.

Proctor, JoRon: Understandable. James Newton: Yeah, I did not try out for the for the soccer team. Proctor, JoRon: Okay. Proctor, JoRon: That's so interesting, and, like, during your time, though, on the track team and,

Proctor, JoRon: like, how were-- How did your teammates receive you on the track team? Or was there like just like dispersed personalities? James Newton: Well, I remember it as a fun time, actually, and in fact, the the number one High Jumper James Newton: went on to become James Newton: the Director of Admissions at the University of Maryland, at College Park.

James Newton: and I remember, early in my teaching career, he called me and James Newton: offered me a job James Newton: with the Admissions James Newton: department in Maryland.

James Newton: But that was not as interesting to me as teaching mathematics at the, James Newton: at the school where I taught. And James Newton: and so I said, No. James Newton: And it is interesting, because I ended up

James Newton: later in life James Newton: taking a position at Maryland and and staying working at Maryland for about 37 years. Proctor, JoRon: Oh, wow! James Newton: Yeah. And that total experience was

James Newton: a totally good one. Proctor, JoRon: Ok, Proctor, JoRon: and so, Proctor, JoRon: from your perspective, while still attending Towson State College. what was the overall environment like on campus at that time? This is just like having in mind like, how

Proctor, JoRon: different diversity is now, like, how was it back then on campus? James Newton: Well, James Newton: first of all, it wasn't James Newton: that diverse. And remember, I entered

James Newton: in 1964, James Newton: before you were born. James Newton: and so James Newton: it was not that diverse.

James Newton: The area we sat in the student Union which in those days was in, I think, Newell Hall, or one of those James Newton: buildings that face York Road James Newton: and James Newton: I guess one of the practices we did was

James Newton: on a napkin. We tried to name all of the black students James Newton: at the campus. James Newton: And James Newton: the enrollment is something like

James Newton: 2,500, James Newton: and we could come up with 50 names, as I recall. James Newton: And so it was not that diverse. James Newton: But it was, I don't know,

James Newton: It was pleasant, I mean, I'm sure, I'm absolutely positive. James Newton: And I can think of some examples James Newton: that, they were kids there. James Newton: that were not

James Newton: happy with going to school with black kids. In fact, I remember in an orientation program we're sitting outside. We had a choice of reading two books, one by Martin Luther King, James Newton: and one by James Newton: I think Eldridge Cleaver, or some James Newton: some non-Martin Luther King type personality, and we would sit outside and read.

James Newton: And I remember this one girl saying, James Newton: You know, if my mother knew I was sitting under a tree reading a book with a black boy, James Newton: she would yank me out of the school so fast. James Newton: But that was

James Newton: her mother's point of view, James Newton: from the students themselves, James Newton: if there were students that did not James Newton: like the fact that I was

James Newton: black, James Newton: they pretty much kept it to themselves. Proctor, JoRon: Okay. James Newton: Either that or

James Newton: by that time in my life, I had James Newton: built up enough James Newton: of a defense mechanism that I could ignore it. I mean it just, it wasn't there, as far as I was concerned. Proctor, JoRon: okay, and that actually answered my next question, cause, I was going to ask, you, to some variation, like, if there were any instances of racial tension on campus at that time, and not necessarily like towards you, but if you witnessed it towards like other...

Proctor, JoRon: I think you mentioned, you said there was 50 other black students? James Newton: Yeah, that there may have been there may have been, we would count, count them and write their names on an napkin James Newton: in the in the student Union. But James Newton: I can't remember negative experiences there. I can remember on the road with the team.

James Newton: we would, James Newton: gee! We would travel to James Newton: Virginia, and we would travel to the eastern shore of Maryland. James Newton: And more so in Eastern shore of Maryland, that

James Newton: team would James Newton: stop for a meal, either going or coming home from a game. James Newton: It's Salisbury or Chestertown, or James Newton: somewhere.

James Newton: I remember the coach would get off the bus. James Newton: and he would go into the restaurant James Newton: to find out James Newton: if I could come in.

James Newton: He'd be... He'd find out if a black person could eat there. James Newton: and if the answer was James Newton: "No, I couldn't", James Newton: we would move on

James Newton: and find another place to eat. James Newton: and the... James Newton: I guess I respected him for that, and the rest of the team, 'cause the guy, I mean, guys on the team, James Newton: guys on the team were very frank

James Newton: and James Newton: their reaction could have been. James Newton: "oh, we're bringing Newt's-- James Newton: We'll bring his

James Newton: meal out to the bus. Let's go eat." But there was, I mean there was none of that, and and I respect them for that. Proctor, JoRon: Great, that's great. Proctor, JoRon: And as far as say, faculty and staff, like, from your perspective like, how is their like general attitude towards like just race relations in general? James Newton: If I were to give them a grade I think I'd give them

James Newton: an A or a B, I mean, James Newton: I cannot remember any James Newton: outright James Newton: prejudice, I mean,

James Newton: there may have been some under the skin. James Newton: And if so, James Newton: I don't remember any outright prejudice. In fact, in some cases I remember just the opposite, James Newton: and, for example, with the mathematics department.

James Newton: The fellow who ended up being my advisor. James Newton: I had him for the 1st time as a freshman. It may have been the first semester of the sophomore year, James Newton: and James Newton: for an exam for part of an exam, we had to do a proof of something.

James Newton: and on my blue book, James Newton: in addition to my grade, on this proof, James Newton: he wrote a little note. James Newton: "This was well done. You should consider being a math major."

James Newton: and in my mind, I was thinking, James Newton: "well, man, I already am a math major." James Newton: But he didn't know that. And in the senior year there were a couple of women in the the department James Newton: who,

James Newton: who encouraged me to apply to grad school. James Newton: Now, James Newton: I didn't see myself as a graduate student at that time, James Newton: and

James Newton: so that was a bit of a surprise. James Newton: And secondly, James Newton: I wasn't about to go to grad school because I had to get out of school and get a job. James Newton: And so going to grad school didn't come until, I don't know, much later, 4 or 5 years later.

James Newton: Well, actually, 3 years later. But yeah. Didn't come until later. Proctor, JoRon: Okay, alright. And so, Proctor, JoRon: circling back to the sense of community, Proctor, JoRon: during your time at Towson, can you tell me about maybe, like, some people and organizations that provided a sense of community for you at that time?

James Newton: Well, James Newton: I really didn't have a sense of community at Towson because Towson was school. James Newton: I got on the bus and went there, or later on, when I got a little piece of a car, I drove there, James Newton: and

James Newton: it was school. James Newton: It was basketball. James Newton: And though there were clubs and organizations, James Newton: I didn't belong to them, because,

James Newton: I don't know, I didn't... James Newton: One, James Newton: socially, I didn't feel all that comfortable James Newton: in the organizations, and two,

James Newton: I had this wonderful James Newton: community James Newton: in the city of Baltimore, I mean. James Newton: There was the neighborhood.

James Newton: There was the church. James Newton: And that was a big deal. James Newton: And there was just a strong sense of James Newton: community among

James Newton: those two things and others James Newton: that, I just used to say I lived a double life because there was the school life and and the home life, and James Newton: why the double life James Newton: sort of made me

James Newton: bilingual. I mean, there was the school way of talking, and then there's the the home way, and the neighborhood way, and the church way of talking, and James Newton: they were slightly different. Proctor, JoRon: Ok, Proctor, JoRon: and so,

Proctor, JoRon: so during, like, your whole duration of being at Towson State, if any, were there any changes in terms of Proctor, JoRon: diversity and inclusion during your time here? James Newton: Gee, James Newton: that. Gee! That was, that was not something I thought about then.

James Newton: And so, James Newton: as I think about it now, James Newton: one change might be that James Newton: the number of African Americans-- the number of black students increased

James Newton: slightly, I mean, it didn't blow up, but increased slightly. James Newton: A few faculty members James Newton: were included to it when I attended, James Newton: don't remember many

James Newton: faculty members James Newton: as a freshman, but by the time I graduated James Newton: I could name a few. James Newton: Yeah, I mean,

James Newton: it's interesting. James Newton: I didn't think about diversity James Newton: and inclusion James Newton: as a teenager.

James Newton: I was just a James Newton: kid going through the math program and James Newton: playing basketball on the side. Proctor, JoRon: Ok.

James Newton: And totally different outlook now. But then, James Newton: that's how I felt. Proctor, JoRon: Ok. And as far as, like, Proctor, JoRon: like, say, for example, in the mathematics department, were there ever any any professors of color in there, or like any other department that you noticed other than I know you mentioned Whitney LeBlanc, but just curious?

James Newton: Short answer is, no, no. James Newton: No, there are no black mathematicians at Towson State when I was there, and I wonder if there are any now, do you know? Proctor, JoRon: I definitely, like, used to know, like I used to know someone who just graduated Proctor, JoRon: with an applied math major. I think all of his professors

Proctor, JoRon: were either white or also, I think, he said Japanese or Chinese. James Newton: Yes, yeah, yeah, I do. Yes. James Newton: Yes, I do remember James Newton: several

James Newton: Asian or Asian American James Newton: professors. But James Newton: not only in the math department do I not remember there being any black professors, James Newton: but, as I think,

James Newton: as I think back, I don't think they were James Newton: any James Newton: black professors James Newton: with whom I had class.

James Newton: Okay. James Newton: There were professors James Newton: that, James Newton: I don't know, that I felt really, really comfortable with. One of them was Parabell, who's a sociology professor.

James Newton: Another one was, James Newton: was a music professor. I remember I took the history of jazz with him, and James Newton: I thoroughly enjoyed it, ended up teaching his son, but James Newton: grow. Yeah, but,

James Newton: but no, I don't. I don't remember. I don't. Other than Whitney Leblanc, who came, and James Newton: to the drama, whatever, speech, whatever that department was, other than him, James Newton: I do not remember any African-American professors. Proctor, JoRon: Okay.

Proctor, JoRon: And oh, before I forget. So, Proctor, JoRon: any coaches of color, possibly, as well, like, from any other sports teams or not at all? James Newton: None at all that I recall, I mean, as I think of the sports, James Newton: it was across there was soccer, there was swimming.

James Newton: And I can remember many of their names, but I do know that there... There was no diversity in the coaching staff. James Newton: By the way, I assume that it's changed, has it? Proctor, JoRon: Yes, yes. James Newton: Okay.

Proctor, JoRon: And so looking back, because I know you touched on this earlier in the interview, but just to just to circle back and just be clear on it, Proctor, JoRon: How do you feel that your own presence and performance on the basketball team influenced Towson as an institution and its local community? James Newton: Well, James Newton: hmm.

James Newton: I don't know, if I influenced Towson as a school or in the local community at all. James Newton: I was a kid playing basketball, and I was a guy going to school for James Newton: or it for the mathematics. And so James Newton: it's not clear to me that

James Newton: there was any influence on the the community at all. Towson had a great basketball player at Towson High School. James Newton: who ended up James Newton: integrating the University of Maryland, that basketball team. James Newton: And so...

James Newton: His last name was Jones, and I'm blocking on his first name. But anyway, James Newton: so I don't remember, James Newton: I mean, if there was an impact on the community. You'll have to ask the community because James Newton: I came to school, and I wasn't there. When I came to school. I went to class. I went to practice, and I went home.

James Newton: And so, James Newton: no, I don't think of any influence on the community. Proctor, JoRon: Okay, alright. Proctor, JoRon: And so over the years since your graduation, did you have the desire to keep in touch with the university itself or your teammates, classmates, and so forth?

James Newton: Teammates and classmates, James Newton: really, no, James Newton: but the school itself. I remember coming back. James Newton: I don't know. 10-15 years after graduation, and being on

James Newton: some kind of board. James Newton: And I remember working with a fellow named Lonnie McNew. James Newton: Lonnie James Newton: was a student there when I was there, and then I don't know what he became, but he was on this board.

James Newton: I can remember bumping into a couple of guys who are on the team, James Newton: either at, James Newton: well, one was at a grocery store and the other one was at James Newton: a high school competition

James Newton: where my son was competing. James Newton: And it was, it was somewhere in Towson, as a matter of fact. James Newton: But no, I do not remember, James Newton: nostalgically. I do not remember any nostalgia

James Newton: related to members of the team, or James Newton: people at the school James Newton: at all. Proctor, JoRon: Ok.

Proctor, JoRon: And so just to follow up Proctor, JoRon: for further research, are there any other people that you think we should reach out to? James Newton: Hmm... James Newton: Well,

James Newton: there's a young lady named Linda Chinnia. James Newton: She was Linda Johnson when she was there. James Newton: Linda went on... James Newton: I don't know what Linda's major was,

James Newton: but she was a school teacher in Baltimore City at the elementary school level, James Newton: and she went on to be James Newton: a member of the School Board in Baltimore City. James Newton: She may have chaired the School board. I don't know,

James Newton: but her last name James Newton: was Johnson then, James Newton: and it's Chinnia now C-H-I-N James Newton: maybe two n's, I-A, I don't know,

James Newton: but that's a person. Proctor, JoRon: OK. James Newton: Yeah, James Newton: there's my sister

James Newton: who graduated 3 years James Newton: ahead of me. James Newton: and but she had a stroke recently, and she... Proctor, JoRon: Sorry to hear.

James Newton: Thank you. James Newton: She's not really communicative, James Newton: at least not not at this point. James Newton: Those are names that come to mind. And of course, when this conversation ends, a flood of names will come to mind. And, by the way, if that happens, I'll email them to you.

Proctor, JoRon: Ok. No problem. James Newton: Okay. Proctor, JoRon: And so other than that. Proctor, JoRon: Oh, another additional question I forgot to ask earlier. Did you notice like were there any, like,

Proctor, JoRon: promotion of women's sports teams at the time? James Newton: That's funny. James Newton: A: There were women's sports teams. James Newton: B:

James Newton: If they were promoted in any way. James Newton: I am not aware of that at all. James Newton: I do know that Dr. Vercruzen, who, I think, coached James Newton: the women's basketball team.

James Newton: She would... She would have James Newton: her team observe me rebounding James Newton: to learn how to box out and how to rebound. James Newton: which I didn't give a whole lot of thought to. But,

James Newton: but no, I don't remember any promotion of women's teams. James Newton: At all. Proctor, JoRon: Okay, alright, and that's, I think that's all the questions I have for you today. Do you have any last things that you would like to share with us? James Newton: No, no, I will say that this conversation with you is,

James Newton: well, has been delightful, and I wish you well with your your work in school, and with whatever comes next. Proctor, JoRon: Thank you so much. Thank you. I appreciate it. James Newton: You're quite welcome. Proctor, JoRon: Alright! Have a great day.

James Newton: Thank you. I wish you a good day, too. Proctor, JoRon: Thanks.