Interview with James Binko

Speaker 1: James B Binko graduated from the Maryland State Teachers College at Towson in 1959 with a bachelor's degree in education, with an emphasis in English and history. Speaker 1: Doctor Binko served as a teacher in the Baltimore County Public Schools for three years. In 1962, he came to the Maryland State Teachers College at Towson as an instructor in the Department of Secondary Education. Speaker 1: He held numerous administrative positions, culminating in his service as Dean of the College of Education. These are his reflections. Karen Blair: Doctor Binko, thank you for sharing your own preparation for teaching here at Towson University and your subsequent career in education.

Karen Blair: This will add greatly to our understanding of the evolution of teacher education at Towson across time. James Binko: Well, I hope so. Karen Blair: And where we'd like to start is at the beginning. Could you share with us a little bit about your own early social context, where you grew up, the point at which you thought about coming to college, and when you started to think about teaching as a possible career choice. James Binko: Yes, thank you for the opportunity. I grew up in Baltimore County.

James Binko: In Steeltown, my father was a steelworker. James Binko: My first ambition was to follow in my father's footsteps, I guess as late as my junior year in high school, and I said that once at the dinner table. James Binko: And he looked at me and he said, young man, you will never go on those steel mills. You're going to college. James Binko: That was my first motivation for going to college and taking it seriously. I thought, first of all, at this- Going into seminary and going into the ministry. That did not materialize.

James Binko: I visited a couple colleges with my father. For a variety of reasons, it just didn't materialize. I then thought about, well, some folks, including my, couple of my teachers in high school, seemed to think I had some skills in art, and I rather enjoyed that area too. James Binko: So I applied for an art scholarship, with the idea of going to either the Maryland Institute or another school for that. Well, I didn't get the scholarship, so that dashed my thoughts about becoming an artist. James Binko: Well, then I decided that Towson, then State Teachers College, offered a good alternative. James Binko: As a school, that became the priority, what school am I going to go to?

James Binko: Well, it was close enough to home that it was convenient. James Binko: For a youngster like myself, growing up in the blue collar area of Baltimore County, the idea of just going to Towson seemed rather elevating, you know, and it was, I mean, so I decided to go to Towson, come to Towson. James Binko: And I lived on campus for the first two years and then off campus as a commuter, so-called commuter student, for the second two years. It was obviously during that time that I began taking a serious interest in becoming a teacher. James Binko: Although the idea of teaching I never really, I had never really dismissed in my adolescent years, it now became a reality.

James Binko: That's what I'm preparing to do. James Binko: And I enjoyed that experience. Both on campus and off campus. James Binko: And Towson State Teachers College was a good school with a lot of good faculty. James Binko: So the institution was privileged in that regard.

Karen Blair: So when did you decide on a major? James Binko: The major was decided for you in those days. You were majoring in education. There were no other majors at that at that time. This is in the late 1950s, but we did have to choose those of us who were preparing to go into secondary education. Karen Blair: I see. James Binko: We did have to choose one or two areas of concentration, which, however, could not be declared as majors. We weren't allowed to do that. You had- Your major was education. So I chose to concentrate both in history and in English.

Karen Blair: I see. James Binko: History and geography and English, and I spent a good bit of my class time as a student in those courses, English and social studies and history courses. James Binko: That again pretty well also indicated my thought at that time, and that was I would like to teach history or history and geography or possibly English. James Binko: In fact, the very first teaching position I was offered was a teaching position in English at a local high school.

James Binko: I, however, dismissed that offer and chose instead an offer to teach social studies and English in, what, in the early days of the core program, James Binko: was, in the school that where I began my teaching, was called core, and I was required to teach an amalgam of history and geography and current affairs and English, and probably two or three other things that they threw in. Karen Blair: And that was part of core. James Binko: Yes, something that-

James Binko: A little codicil there on my beginning teaching. James Binko: I had the really unique experience, I won't say advantage or disadvantage, but the unique experience of beginning my teaching In the same school, and indeed in the same classroom, where I was a 7th grade student. Karen Blair: Oh, my heavens. James Binko: Just a dozen years or so before that.

James Binko: In fact, that experience I would today just discourage for anybody, although at the time it seemed to work well for me. James Binko: I really enjoyed the experience. Karen Blair: Where did you do your student teaching? James Binko: I did my student teaching here in in Baltimore County. We had two experiences then, two student teaching experiences.

James Binko: Another footnote on this is at the time, if you graduated from Towson State Teachers College in secondary education, you were certified only through Grade 9, junior high school. You could not teach in the Senior High School and be certified. James Binko: I think that obligation, that requirement I guess better stated, was apparently the artifact of some agreement statewide that the teachers colleges could prepare teachers through junior high school. James Binko: It remained for the capital institution, the University of Maryland, and perhaps private universities and colleges, to prepare teachers for high school teaching. Karen Blair: I see.

James Binko: So when I left here, I had done my student teaching both in junior high schools with marvelous teachers in good schools. James Binko: Thoroughly enjoyed it, and I then looked for a teaching position at the junior high school level. Karen Blair: So you were confident that this is really what you wanted to do? This seemed like a good career choice? James Binko: Yes, I got- I received good marks in my student teaching.

James Binko: I received a lot of encouragement from the people who were supposed to know, Jim, this is a good fit for you, teaching. So I- and I felt good about teaching. James Binko: Sometimes for the wrong reasons, I will admit. James Binko: I later decided, that was not a particularly good reason to enjoy teaching or to go into teaching. James Binko: By that I mean I had two master teachers to supervise my student teaching.

James Binko: Everyone knew them in their local area, so they knew that if you had either or both of them to supervise you and your student teaching, you had it made because they knew all the tricks. They knew all the pedagogy, and if you could make it with them you would make it as a teacher. James Binko: Well, I had the good fortune of having both of them to supervise my student teaching. They were masters at what they did. James Binko: And I copied what they did because that was what was expected of me. James Binko: I wasn't asked, would you do that differently? You’re gonna do it this way. Do it this way, but one of the things I learned out of it or appreciate it later on…

Karen Blair: Well, if you’re doing it with the masters… James Binko: Years later, perhaps in my teaching is that control is only, you know, control of the classroom and mimicking someone else's good teaching, that's just part of the story of being a good teacher in the in the classroom. James Binko: Necessary in those initial steps. But there were some few things that those two teachers, masters though they be, things they did in the classroom which later on I could look back on and say that wasn't good teaching, really. James Binko: That little episode, that little behavior.

James Binko: That way of dealing with the student problem, that was not it. It worked for them and it would work for beginning teacher. James Binko: But theoretically, pedagogically, even in practice. James Binko: I wouldn't look back on it and say, that's what I'd want another teacher to do. Karen Blair: Right, right.

James Binko: But I did it, because in part I didn't know any better, and because it worked. Karen Blair: There you go. Karen Blair: So you have graduated from Towson. You're in your first position and that's in your own, in the same classroom, 7th grade classroom, same community. James Binko: Same community. Same where I'm sitting. Classroom where I was a 7th grade student.

James Binko: And it worked well for me. James Binko: I enjoyed teaching. I enjoyed the youngsters. I enjoyed junior high school. I at one time thought, having taken all the subject matter courses that I did as an undergraduate, that I would certainly want to teach Senior High School because those youngsters, in fact, they… James Binko: You know, the brightest youngsters would be the only ones deserving of all these content skills that I'd learned. James Binko: Well, I was wrong about that too. I was accepted position in the junior high school. I love teaching the junior high school, and thereafter, even in my own career as a teacher educator, if someone were going into secondary education.

James Binko: I would say first of all, please don't ignore junior or middle school as an opportunity for yourself. In fact, I'd encourage you to go there because it's a great place to teach. It really is. It's a great level to teach. Karen Blair: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Absolutely. James Binko: So I have that, that experience at middle school, in junior high, for me, won me over. James Binko: I no longer- Once I had my first couple of years of teaching at in junior high school, I was a firm advocate of the junior high school.

Karen Blair: There you go. Now, it was not long before you sort of reconnected with Towson University as a cooperating teacher. James Binko: Yes. In fact, in my second year of teaching. James Binko: I was informed by my supervisor that I was going to have a student teacher. James Binko: So I thought, well, we could learn to teach together.

James Binko: But again, and I don't mean this immodestly, but obviously I had been recognized as a beginning teacher as having learned sufficient number of and quality in the administration of skills in the classroom that I received high marks for in my first year, so it didn't surprise me that I might be given a student teacher, although I hadn't asked for one. James Binko: Now as it turned out, he and I had a good half year semester together. James Binko: Immediately after he left me, he went into the military service. In those days, we still had something called the draft, and he was drafted into the service. James Binko: He later came back years later and I saw him at a teachers’ meeting. So I know that he did go into teaching.

James Binko: Whether he survived there for an entire career, I don't know. But he did come back to try his hand at teaching. Karen Blair: And it wasn't long after that that Towson liked what you were doing as a cooperating teacher, I assume, and invited you to be more fully engaged in teacher education. James Binko: Yes. And they were looking for someone that could get on the cheap. Karen Blair: OK.

James Binko: I don't mean that disparagingly, really. They were looking for someone who was relatively young. Recent, a recent graduate of either Towson or some other teachers’ college. James Binko: To come in and teach some of the beginning courses in secondary education. In my particular case in audio visual aids, in those days I was considered a real expert in the in the matter of handling the 16mm motion picture projector in those days. James Binko: I'm sorry, I lost your question. Karen Blair: Oh, the question it was just to sort of segue into talking about that someone came and asked you if you would become a member of the faculty with your audio visual skill and other sorts of things.

James Binko: Oh, thank you. Thank you. Yes, yes. James Binko: Well, if I may, you… Well, whether I may or not. James Binko: Yes, I had, like many young teachers, particularly in those days, male teachers who were still, you know, when it was a day when, again, dealing with social context, when it was the male who was still considered to be the primary breadwinner. James Binko: And if you were a male and went into teaching, it was not surprising if you would soon put yourself in a track to do what? Go into administration.

James Binko: So I had started that and had just about finished my Masters degree in my third, at the end of my third year of public school teaching. Karen Blake: Right. James Binko: OK. Karen Blair: And that was in educational administration.

James Binko: Yes, yes. And in the middle of that summer, the following summer, I received a phone call. James Binko: And the phone call, the person at the other end introduced herself as someone I knew from here at Towson, and I did recognize. James Binko: And she said, wait, wait, Jim, we knew each other on a first name basis, and she said I want- James Binko: and then Doctor Brown, who was then vice president here at the- Then we had evolved into Towson State College, no longer teachers’ college.

Karen Blair: Right. James Binko: We were now a school that had diverse programs and various degrees. James Binko: So anyway, she said, I want Doctor Brown to talk with you for just a moment. James Binko: So this person, this, the male. I heard this male voice at the other end of the phone, and he began talking to me about coming back to Towson.

James Binko: This time on the faculty. James Binko: Well, I mean. Well, here. James Binko: I thought this was an old roommate of mine and a great friend and a great prankster calling me and pulling my leg. Karen Blair: Yeah, playing a joke on you.

James Binko: Alright, playing a joke so I began giving him a hard time on the phone. Karen Blair: Oh no. James Binko: And I won't go into the kind of buffoonery that that he and I would typically go through, but at any rate, make a long story short, finally, Doctor Brown convinced me that in fact he was Doctor Brown. James Binko: Well, of course, even over the phone. I felt about that tall, I really was hugely embarrassed, but he persisted.

James Binko: He talked to me about coming back on the faculty here at Towson, and I came and had an interview, and I actually not only accepted the position, I got a $200 raise over what they were going to offer me in the public schools the next year. Karen Blair: Did you really? My heavens. James Binko: So I really felt inflated and very good. Yeah. Karen Blair: You should feel, yes, and you should.

Karen Blair: Because they called you for a reason. James Binko: Yes, and a good reason. And it's something that I was learning really to enjoy and that was… James Binko: It was more than a vocation. It was now something I really enjoyed doing, teaching and planning for teaching, working with students. Karen Blair: So you're at Towson University and you're probably not only teaching audio visual courses. What kinds of things?

James Binko: That's right, the introductory course in secondary education. What then was called, still is, principles of secondary education. James Binko: Further irony. Karen Blair: There you go. James Binko: As an undergraduate student in preparation for my own teaching, I took a course called introduction to the junior high school.

James Binko: That was the course we took in lieu of principles of secondary education, and that was the course that distinguished us, in the state teachers’ colleges, as being certified only for the junior high school, nothing above that. James Binko: Students, for instance, at University of Maryland, were taking principles of secondary education substantially the same course, and that would certify them to teach in the high school. Karen Blair: Yeah, of course. Karen Blair: So when so when you came here, were we still only doing certification programs through 9th grade? Did that change very quickly?

James Binko: That changed quickly. James Binko: In fact, it changed during the three years that I was not here, so we that we were now preparing teachers for the full range of levels in high school. James Binko: And after I gained a little bit of security myself in those first couple of years of teaching, I would say to my students in the principles of secondary class, the irony of my teaching this course to you is, it's fundamentally the same course, and indeed we use the same textbook that I took, in a course called introduction to the junior high school. James Binko: I'm teaching you a course that I wasn't allowed to take, and which denied me certification at the high school level, just three years before.

Karen Blair: Isn't that funny? Yep. James Binko: It's funny and I can only wonder if the chief of certification today would try to nab me on that, protesting that I was still not certified to teach for some 40 years, 45 years at the secondary level, so. Karen Blair: Oh, that's just funny, yes. Karen Blair: You quickly moved into some more administrative positions on campus.

James Binko: I was very happy teaching and I saw myself as a faculty member. In fact, one of the reasons I came to Towson, as a faculty member, is that I thought, oh, thank God, I've escaped the pathway to administration. Karen Blair: To being a principal. James Binko: I can stay in the classroom and do what I enjoy, teach if I want in the summer or go travel with family, that type of thing. Karen Blair: Yes, yes.

James Binko: Or as I was doing, begin my work toward my doctorate during the summer, that type of thing. James Binko: But yes, after, let's say, I started here in 1962 on the faculty. James Binko: And in 1970, I earned my PhD. James Binko: And it was during that year I had taken a full year sabbatical from here to finish my degree, and it was during that year that some very exciting things were happening in what is now known as Colu,mbia.

James Binko: In those days it was farmland. James Binko: But they were starting to build this very adventurous idea, a concept of a of a planned community with really eye opening schools. James Binko: And the then Dean of our College of Education called me in and said, would you be willing, Jim, to go into Columbia on a daily basis and work with them in developing these schools, particularly the one in the middle school level? James Binko: Because that's where I had, again, had my experience, and also had done my dissertation.

Karen Blair: Oh, right. James Binko: And so for the next three years, I was working out in Columbia basically in what today we would call professional development school. I even was teaching courses for the university in the community out there. James Binko: We had community based schools for parents and community members, that type of thing, and from there after three years I moved back into the classroom briefly. The university classroom. James Binko: They then tapped me and said would you be willing to go into the student, what was then the student teaching office, and work there as an administrator now? So I moved in.

James Binko: So I moved in, and I was in that office for seven years. James Binko: It was during my 7th and last year there that the present Dean of the college resigned and I received a phone call from the then Provost asking if I would be willing to serve as the temporary Dean, the acting Dean, while a search was conducted for the permanent Dean. James Binko: Well, I had already accepted a sabbatical for that year. James Binko: But I thought well, serving as Dean for a year could be viewed as you know, an internship, kind of, in administration, and s just a different look, another look at what we do here.

James Binko: So I accepted the opportunity and then they came to me and said, well, we we're not ready to do the search right now because we don't know just what the organization is going to be here among our colleges. Karen Blair: Uh-huh. And I guess, were we even colleges at that point? James Binko: They were discussing them as figuratively as colleges, yes, and treating them as colleges. Karen Blair: I see.

James Binko: Although again, education was not… James Binko: Education was considered, forgive me, something of a stepchild in those days. We were not considered a college per se. Karen Blair: And that's interesting given then that when you were a student here, this was pretty much what this institution did, and it really didn't take long for that broader emphasis to change that perspective. James Binko: Correct, yes.

Karen Blair: That suddenly we were sort of this stepchild or whatever. James Binko: Yes, right. They the university really didn't know what it wanted to do with education. And during that period of time, finally, we earned the designation as a college. James Binko: With, I think we began with what, four or five departments at that time, including instructional technology. Karen Blair: Mm hm.

James Binko: But at any rate, that process continued to emerge during and along with the development of the university itself. James Binko: Let me pause to say that during that time from this early 70s to the present day, this institution has grown, to say the obvious. James Binko: But if somebody is new to the campus and doesn't know whether this campus has grown like Topsy, I mean you've been here to see most of that. Karen Blair: Yes, exponentially, yes.

James Binko: Yes, I mean, there's just no easy way to describe it. Karen Blair: Right. James Binko: So on one hand, that has created a lot of- That rapid growth has created a lot of uncertainties, but it also has created a wonderful climate for opportunity and to be on the threshold of a lot of important changes in the institution. James Binko: I myself considered the fact that I was here for four years as a student, and then over 40, about 45 years on the faculty, and as an administrator.

James Binko: I consider myself very fortunate to have witnessed and been a part of all that change, as unsettling as it sometimes was. James Binko: More to your point, yes, it was at that point that I pointed to just a moment ago where I was asked to continue for a second year as acting Dean, that the university chose to go do a national search for a Dean, a permanent Dean, a full time Dean, and I by that time had been snookered or seduced enough by what I've since called the illusion of authority that came with being Dean that I thought, well, I can see some things I might accomplish here. James Binko: So I applied for the job and I got it. James Binko: And so after volunteering to serve one year on an acting basis, I then served 14 years as Dean, and that was a good experience for me and again permitted me-

Karen Blair: It was an exciting time for the university. James Binko: And permitted me again to see from yet another point of view life at the university, somewhat behind the scenes in some regard, considering the view that I was privileged to have as a faculty member before, gave me a greater, far greater appreciation, also. Karen Blair: Right, right. James Binko: What administrators here, in my particular case as Dean, as a Dean, what they have to contend with in terms of meeting the demands of rapid expansion and so on and so forth, yeah.

Karen Blair: Right. Karen Blair: In terms of your own tenure as Dean and a lengthy tenure it was, 14 years is remarkable for anybody to be in that position, what kinds of changes did you see over time? Karen Blair: From the perspective of the evolution of teacher education, whether it be expansion of programs or curriculum development or technology or… James Binko: Well, again.

Karen Blair: Or accreditation or all of those kinds of things. James Binko: Historically, again, where this institution once was devoted entirely to the preparation of teachers vis-a-vis the Normal School and Towson State Teachers College, James Binko: we are now, and developed over a period of some 40 or 50 years, a number of diverse programs where teacher education and the education component was now no longer, incidentally, the largest component on campus. James Binko: In the early 70s, it was superseded by the business college as the largest college on campus, and I might say during that time, a number of resources that were needed in education in terms of faculty and technology,

James Binko: due to necessity, other necessities, the university administration pushed those resources to areas like business and health and several others in order to meet the demand there. James Binko: And so, for instance, during that time as Dean, when I would get together with the other Deans and the Provost to sit there and divide up the new faculty positions for the next year, for seven straight years, I sat there like this, literally and figuratively, because our college didn't get any new positions. James Binko: In fact, we were going through a period as the nation was, and in schools, public schools, of attrition. School populations were getting smaller instead of bigger. Karen Blair: I guess we had educated all the baby boomers at that point.

James Binko: That's right. And so we were actually peeling positions from our college, which meant in some respects we didn't have either the diversity or the faculty members with the specializations that would have allowed us to keep up with some of the current trends in education outside the campus. Karen Blair: Right. Karen Blair: So in some ways, that was a very difficult time to be Dean. James Binko: Oh, absolutely. And the board of- Our then board of trustees beginning in, probably actually before 1980 when I became Dean and Hoke Smith became president.

James Binko: Beginning before then, but certainly in that year and the next year, the board of trustees was coming down hard on this campus and this administration to get rid of the laboratory school. James Binko: Both because of image - we are no longer a teachers’ college, James Binko: and also because it was a drain on resources. And eventually they were successful in getting rid of the Normal School. I mean of getting rid of the demonstration school, Lida Lee Tall. James Binko: So again, there we had to we, I, our college had to deal with again a reduction in faculty.

James Binko: There were then, I forget the exact number, but let let's say about 10 faculty, tenured faculty, in the Lida Lee Tall School. There was no longer a school. James Binko: To his credit, Hoke Smith, who was a champion in in terms of helping people and being concerned about people as individuals, James Binko: he worked assiduously with me and a couple of others to see that those faculty, from Lida Lee Tall, if they wanted to remain on this campus, they could. If they didn't, then he, and we, helped them find teaching positions elsewhere. A few of them retired. James Binko: But that was, that was an example of a very challenging time for us here on campus.

James Binko: No wonder, incidentally, and related to teacher education, one of the accusations, and perhaps somewhat correctly so, but it was dealt with not as a matter of fact, but as an accusation, James Binko: and that is that Lida Lee Tall, this demonstration school, couldn't possibly handle all of our student teachers here on campus, because we did have, even then, the largest teacher education program in the state, Karen Blair: Right. James Binko: and that school at any one time could handle perhaps 14 student teachers, if it had student teachers in every classroom.

Karen Blair: Right. James Binko: Well, it was never intended to be a laboratory for all of our student teachers and none of our secondary student teachers. But the board honed in on that. Karen Blair: Right. James Binko: Well, you see, that that Lida Lee Tall, that institution sits there and is minimally used by the university in the actual preparation of any significant number of teachers, why do we need it?

James Binko: Well, that was an answer- I mean, that was a question we labored for several years to try to answer and finally, having satisfied that we had answered the question, they closed us anyway, so. Karen Blair: It sounds like a fait accompli. James Binko: It was, yes. Karen Blair: After all that effort.

James Binko: Considerable effort, and I will give again Hoke Smith much of that credit for even keeping an open mind to the possibility of keeping it open year after year, even after the funding for it was virtually stopped by the board of trustees. James Binko: He saw that school, the Lida Lee Tall School, a very important matter of Towson's history. James Binko: And as an institution, but also as a part of the community, in terms of its relationship to the community, Lida Lee Tall School had earned a regionally wide reputation as a laboratory school, as a practice school for elementary school teachers. James Binko: And Hoke was sensitive to that and didn't want to see it ended. He could have- He could have put an end to a lot of misery for himself, as he had said, simply in the beginning. Jim, it's going, we're not going to protract its history or this agony one bit.

Karen Blair: It’s not going to happen, right. Right. Karen Blair: But there was a lot of public support for it and a lot of awareness through the newspapers, the Baltimore Sun, about this. James Binko: Yes, there was. Karen Blair: So it had a lot of support.

James Binko: Then it was clear again. James Binko: Clear to those few of us behind the scenes that the board had already made up its mind. It was just a matter of how long it was going to be, and again, that is important with regard to teacher education here, far beyond the limited number of students that it accommodated for student teaching and for observation. James Binko: It was also a symbol, on this campus, of the historical role and place of from the preparation of teachers on this campus. James Binko: And it was sad to see it, for that reason in particular, it was sad to see its demise.

Karen Blair: Absolutely. Indeed it was. Karen Blair: Lots of programs, though. Even though Lida Lee Tall was closed, the College of Education was beginning to look at new programs. Certainly looking at public education and the broadening diversity of the student body. James Binko: Yes, yes. Karen Blair: And so I think you were here when we were beginning to consider special education and the national mandate for that. So…

James Binko: Oh yes. James Binko: Yeah, I'd say two of the areas, not to the exclusion of others, but two that come to mind very quickly that during that period of time were attracting more and more attention and increasing demand for resources was special education, James Binko: and our educations, outreach to youngsters of diverse abilities, limited abilities, and other disadvantages, handicaps, and what we were required to do both by law and by moral authority, they were just the right thing to do. James Binko: What is required of us as a profession and as a field of endeavor to deal effectively with, and for this increasing population of youngsters

James Binko: being recognized as having a need for education, but not in the standard form? So that was one area, special education. James Binko: The other was instructional technology, or technology and in general, but in particular instructional technology. James Binko: How to keep up with that and where to keep up with that, you know, because an outlay, an outlay for hardware in technology is an enormous cost, James Binko: particularly when it's first introduced and it hasn't begun to find its eventual level in terms of cost and so on. So it's an enormous outlay, but suppose you go out and buy the wrong thing?

Karen Blair: Right, exactly. James Binko: Or that you buy something which six months later they're advertising, they're saying, well, that's no longer, you know, that's no longer the premier where- That's no longer the one that they're going to be using in school. Karen Blair: Very important. James Binko: So, and we found ourselves with that, I think, that dilemma, to the present day.

James Binko: It's a matter of, you know, trying to synchronize our efforts here and allocate our frankly limited, relatively limited resources in ways which provide an optimal opportunity for our students and faculty James Binko: to be effective in the use, in the application of technology, at the same time, not going down the wrong path or too many different paths simultaneously, that the resources become strained and of minimal use. Karen Blair: So you sort of have to jump in, even though you might not be headed in the direction that public education elects today. James Binko: That's right, yeah.

Karen Blair: And certainly at the beginning there was great uncertainty about how this was going to emerge and what things would look like in just a few years’ time. James Binko: Oh, absolutely. James Binko: PCs or Apple, or, you know, such issues as that. Karen Blair: And we, and that was big issue because higher education and most corporate life chose PCs and the Microsoft operating system, and public schools went Apple, at least to start, and so we were just really in quite a dilemma, as you mentioned, indeed.

James Binko: Well, again to their, to I think the universities’ credit, I had, and I don't think it was primarily because I had left as Dean… James Binko: The decision was made at the at the university level almost, well, concurrent with my departure and another Dean coming on, that the university would make an enormous investment in technology. James Binko: Consequently, I think there were additional fees, universal fees that students had to pay, but that was the only way, only feasible way for the university to have any chance to maintain an adequate fund James Binko: for developing the technology base infrastructure on this campus in the absence of any stream of funding from the state itself.

James Binko: And again in the area of special education, the state began requiring additional courses of our prospective teachers in special education. James Binko: That meant, at a minimum, we had to go out and hire additional faculty. And then, as we developed a major in the program, that meant additional resources. James Binko: Including senior faculty to be hired. And so those two areas, again, I'm sure there's a third and a fourth that I should mention, but those are two. James Binko: But those are two which have achieved a great deal of notoriety. Really. Yeah. And have demanded an infusion of resources in order for the institution to stay up.

James Binko: And getting back to teacher education, for our students here to have any chance to recognize themselves as able to deal with, James Binko: in the first case, youngsters with of exception, you know, exceptional youngsters, special ed, and the technology that's going to greet them when they walk into the classroom. Karen Blair: Exactly. James Binko: So those have been two of the challenges.

James Binko: Not all of them, but two of the challenges or examples of challenges which we began to deal with in the 70s, early 80s, and presently. I mean it's still a challenge. Karen Blair: Yeah, it's expensive. James Binko: Expensive, yeah. Karen Blair: While you were working here, you sort of had an element of your personal career that was related to Towson but was separate and apart from to some extent too, and that's your relationship with the National Geographic Society.

Karen Blair: One of the things that often is said, or had been said, I should say, about Towson University students, is that we were somewhat parochial in our perspective, and I'm not certain that they had too much of a sense of a greater geography, Karen Blair: but, so, to be interested in something that would be helpful in terms of, I don't know, professional development for teachers related to that sounds like an exciting thing to be part of, Karen Blair: and something that also was probably necessary, so would you share with us? Tell us a little bit about your involvement with that group and what you were doing. James Binko: Thank you for asking. Yes.

James Binko: In the 1980s, in fact, in 1984, 85, Gil Grosvenor, then President and CEO of the National Geographic Society, and grandson of the founder of the National Geographic Society, he expressed a long standing interest of his in promoting geography nationwide, getting it into the schools. James Binko: And so he convened a group In his office at National Geographic Society in Washington, DC involving several teacher educators, a number of his own vice presidents, and several geographers, James Binko: and posed that question: What, if anything, can be done to promote geography and geography education nationwide? James Binko: Given that his view was that geography was in some school systems a missing component entirely, it just wasn't even taught anymore.

James Binko: There were some universities and colleges where they had done away with geography departments. We for years have had a very prominent department of geography here at Towson and if one looked only at the our example here on our campus, James Binko: you'd be startled at least, stunned, to find out that some campuses that actually eliminated the department. James Binko: So anyway, but that was the situation that concerned Gil Grosvenor, for obvious reasons. Being the CEO and President of National Geographic Society. James Binko: And so he, to make an even longer story as brief as possible, he convened that group to do some brainstorming, and from it he selected a couple of us.

James Binko: Yours truly from education and a young geographer Kit Salter from UCLA, the geographer. James Binko: He asked the two of us to sit down and see if we could put together something that would serve as a convening of teachers selected from around the country to meet in Washington, DC on an annual basis, James Binko: as an institute to develop higher level understanding of geography. James Binko: And this would be a different group each summer. The idea was so that over a period of seven or eight years, with representatives from 7 different states each year coming to Washington, DC, and that over a period of seven or eight years, do the math, we would cover the entire United States.

James Binko: That is, we would have had teachers from each state, and the expectation was that those teachers, having graduated from this summer institute, they would go back to their own school system and their own state, James Binko: and in conjunction with a university or college that agreed to participate, develop a geography center for that state, and from there on, largely funded thereafter by the National Geographic Society to the tune of $50,000 a year. James Binko: That the purpose would be for them at the state level to promote the development and growth of geography teaching. James Binko: Well, Kit Salter and I, borrowing heavily on the very successful model promoted by the National Writing Project, all right, we developed this model and in 1985 brought together the first group of teachers in Washington, DC.

James Binko: and they then went out to their seven different states, and developed their own summer institute the following a year, and then also did field work out in the school systems. James Binko: The idea was that through this so-called multiplier effect, that again by the end of seven or eight years, we would have reached all 50 states in the United States and would have done something very constructive to promote the development of geography education nationwide. Karen Blair: Right. James Binko: And I must admit, as I went into many of those states to follow up to see that the centers were created and how the money was being used, and so on,

James Binko: I was on more than one occasion, startled to find that this university or that college no longer even offered geography, not only didn't have a major, but didn't offer geography courses. Again, given our rich history and geography here at Towson, I was absolutely stunned. Karen Blair: Sure. James Binko: And I saw all the more the need for a lot of education to go on, and a lot of interest to be reinvested into geography. James Binko: My own personal view, and professional view, was, geography was essential. I mean, just look at it this way. Anything that happens, whether it's in literature or in history or whatever.

James Binko: Anything that happens in this life happens somewhere. The somewhere means we're talking about a location, a place, geography, and our students, for instance, James Binko: to be studying history or literature without the benefit of the geographic context is to be learning something which is largely in isolation and will have less meaning than it would James Binko: if they could understand the background of, geographically, of where that event, where that thing was invented, what were the conditions at that time geographically in that area where Gutenberg invented that printing press and so on and so forth. James Binko: So, the truth be told that whole activity was an adjunct activity for me.

James Binko: It wasn't essential to or central to the work I was doing here at Towson at that time as Dean. Karen Blair: Right. James Binko: But it was education, and it was teacher education at the highest level. There was nothing better in my own professional life than working for those several years, almost 20 years, with those highly gifted and highly motivated teachers in Washington, DC, who convened for those summer institutes. James Binko: Or to go out into a state, into Missouri, and see those teachers developing their own institute for teaching geography.

James Binko: As a model for promoting good teaching, I think there's a lot to recommend it. Again, we weren't all that clever. We didn't originate the idea, the National Writing Project had demonstrated already its success. The success of that model. James Binko: But what we were doing - not but, and what we were doing was really importing that model. James Binko: And saying alright, what you can do in a matter of writing and English teaching and learning, I'll bet we could do that with geography. James Binko: And I think to a large extent we were successful in doing, in demonstrating that.

Karen Blair: Do you know if that program continues? James Binko: Yes, it has morphed into, you know, a number of different configurations. The state wide, for instance, the state Centers for Geography Education. Karen Blair: I see. James Binko: Once funded entirely by National Geographic Society, its foundation, created again by Gil Grosvenor for that specific purpose.

James Binko: Those state level institutes now must develop, over a two or three-year period, a proposal for which the foundation, the Geographic Foundation, provides funding. James Binko: If they agree. I mean, it's on a grant basis, whereas once it was, if you have an institute and you have the teachers who are willing to do it, here's $50,000 go do something. Karen Blair: Yes. Uh-huh. James Binko: And if you can raise addition, if you can raise matching funds at the state level, you have 100,000 instead of just 50,000, and several states did that and they were, all the teachers were all the more fortunate and richer for having raised the additional money.

Karen Blair: Absolutely. James Binko: So it, yes, it continues to go, the program goes, but it's in a different format and a different kind of funding. James Binko: Not as prominent as it was, but all of these things. James Binko: Whether, you know, all of these things have their cycles, so, and each one in its particular time and place has a spotlight,

James Binko: and then kind of moves aside or is pushed aside and it's nowhere more evident than in the field of education where we have one movement after another that, you know, just is here today and then gone. James Binko: I think in this particular case, as with the writing project, we have evidence that it has made a difference at the state level simply by, among other things, James Binko: the evidence of a real workforce of teachers who have joined in that, on a voluntary basis, not getting anything for it, but have joined in this effort to improve the teaching of geography in their own schools in their state and many of whom, senior teachers, you know, have been in the field 20 years or more. James Binko: Who said that because of their experience, like with the writing project, who, because of this experience, feel regenerated as teachers.

James Binko: They were, before this, looking to either retire or do something else, but this had quickened their interest. James Binko: That is, their participation in this, in this particular kind of project with teachers teaching other teachers what they do well, that whole idea, well, that's a pretty clever idea that, you know, look at all the things that we learned from these other 20 or 30 teachers. James Binko: If each one teaches all the others something that he or she does well in the classroom, well, that's 30. That's a whole lot of learning. And the question would be why? Why haven't we learned to do more of it in other fields? James Binko: Couldn't we do that in math? Couldn’t we do that in science areas now?

Karen Blair: One would think. James Binko: You would, you would think, yes, yeah. Karen Blair: Is there anything that we haven't talked about, especially in regard to your career and your perspective this wonderful perspective you bring to things? Karen Blair: You're sort of suggesting that everything happens – curriculum, instructional models - happen cyclically, so you know we're probably bound to see it again in some iteration

Karen Blair: from all of your research, all of your interaction with people, are there are certain elements in teacher education that you think are critical pieces to what we do, that sort of stand the tests, that sort of recycling of everything, and are always there? James Binko: Yes, yes. I'm reminded that, in response to that, I'm reminded that In my own experience, both personally and professionally, there is nothing more important in the classroom than the than the teacher. James Binko: And where we can guarantee ourselves, our students, and our constituents that we have a great teacher in that classroom. That's really all we need to know. James Binko: Give that dynamic or otherwise effective person a group of students, any age, any grade level.

James Binko: With sufficient, that is with a teacher with a sufficient background and understanding of what he or she's trying to teach, James Binko: and that's really all we need to know, and that's all the public would demand if they thought we had great teachers in every classroom. There'd be far less emphasis on this statewide and national testing. James Binko: Why do we have that testing? For the most part? James Binko: For whatever benefits it may, we have that testing, and the hours and dollars consumed and testing,

James Binko: because we cannot guarantee that we have great teaching going on in every classroom, and therefore, what should we do? Test to find out where it's working and where it isn't. James Binko: Well, in my view, my own view, and I think I'm immodest enough to think that another reasonable people would agree, that those tests, first of all, only reveal a modicum of what we really want as outcomes in the classroom. James Binko: Give me as the parent of a youngster in, at any level, middle school, a choice between an adequate teacher with a superior battery of tests or a great teacher and I don't know what kind of tests he or she uses. James Binko: I'll take the one who you and I intersubjectively would agree.

James Binko: It's a great teacher if you want your kid to have a great experience. James Binko: Be sure that he or she has that person as a teacher. James Binko: There are people I could point to in my own growth as a person, as a teacher. James Binko: Two or three who quickly come to mind.

James Binko: None of whom is a teacher educator per se. James Binko: But a teacher. James Binko: What they have in common is they were great in the classroom. James Binko: They were great in the classroom.

James Binko: Great in the sense of by their persona, by their understanding of what they taught, James Binko: they commanded your attention, and your want to be like them, and study hard to know what they know. James Binko: Find out what book they're using in addition to the textbooks, so you could run to the Internet or the library and get a copy of that book yourself and sit down and read it. James Binko: Again, we don't have enough great teachers to put one in every classroom.

James Binko: And I recognize that to suggest we will or can afford to is, well, to use a common term, idealistic, although I don't like the application of that term to what I'm describing, that is to say, it just isn't going to happen in the in the real world. James Binko: In the absence of a great teacher in every classroom, we need teachers who, what? James Binko: Know something, and know it well, so that they and know more than their students about it. Karen Blair: Mm hm.

James Binko: And while command of the subject matter is not the only thing, particularly at the senior, you know, at the secondary level, it's an important thing. We not only teach someone, we teach someone something, James Binko: And we, better than anybody else, the we who teach, need to understand the nuances of what we teach as well as the linear facts, and that type of thing. So we need people who know something, who are absolutely curious about everything. James Binko: Not just their subject, but about life itself and the world and books and literature and geography, James Binko: and because those are the kind of people our kids, our students, really like. They like people who are curious, and every now and then will pause and they're teaching to say, Gee, I wonder where that idea came from. I wonder if we could find that out. And so on and so forth.

James Binko: Who don't pretend to know everything about everything, but are curious about everything, and particularly what they teach. Karen Blair: Right. James Binko: Who like people in general, they like being with people of all ages, but particularly, in the case of teaching, children and or adolescents. James Binko: Who don't just tolerate them, but they really like them.

James Binko: You can be a good teacher and not really like kids. You can. You could do that, but it's going to be much more of a challenge to you. James Binko: And it's going to be much more difficult than if you like your clients. James Binko: And I think we need to bring people into the classroom who are enthusiastic, enthusiastic about life, James Binko: about kids, about what they teach, and aren’t, you know, afraid to show that curiosity, and enthusiasm in the classroom.

James Binko: I think those qualities among several others are the qualities that we need to be looking for and developing in our prospective teachers If we want, and where we want, education to succeed. James Binko: And yes, James Binko: paper and pencil assessments, performance assessment if you please, and so on. James Binko: Uh, but I think that the current emphasis on those paper and pencil assessments is soon, if it continues,

James Binko: if it continues the way it has developed over the past several years, is going to burn out the best of our teachers. James Binko: And others among the best who aren't burned out are just going to give it up, they’re gonna say, I don't need this in my life, James Binko: and I don't like doing this to these kids and trying to convince them that this is really important stuff. James Binko: Now about this and a few other things I may be incorrect.

James Binko: But I obviously don't think so. Karen Blair: But you have strong convictions about it. James Binko: I think I do, yes. Karen Blair: Well, given all of those last thoughts, what would you say to someone-

Karen Blair: I have these paper and pencil tests in my head right now. What would you say to someone who's considering a career in teaching? James Binko: Go for it. Do it. James Binko: Try it. James Binko: Don't tell me that if you try it and don't like it, that'll be wasted time. That's an insult to yourself to suggest that.

James Binko: It may be wasted time in terms of getting yourself into a certain place on a financial ladder, but to say that I spent two years doing this or that, anything, including teaching, and only to find out it really isn't my niche… James Binko: I can do it, but I don't want to. I can do it, but I don't like it. James Binko: I can do it, but it's too much work. James Binko: …is to have learned something about yourself and about a field of endeavor,

James Binko: and take that education, take that learning, and if you're a good problem solver, you can move over somewhere else, continuing your education, and develop a career ladder somewhere else. James Binko: But if you've got talent and curiosity and these other things that I was mentioning, try it. James Binko: Because if you try it and you enjoy it, and your kids enjoy you, James Binko: and you're getting good results,

James Binko: I personally and professionally can't think of a better way to spend your life. James Binko: And that's the way to think of teaching, I think. As, quite frankly, any other career line, you are not only choosing a vocation, you're choosing a way of life for yourself. James Binko: It's a way of life that demands hard work. Long hours. James Binko: Interacting with people sometimes you don't like.

James Binko: But they're, you know, you have to deal with them. James Binko: But an enormously rewarding field of endeavor and way of life. James Binko: If you enjoy it, if you get into it and don't enjoy it, get out. Otherwise you'll feel stuck and there's nothing- What could be more sour than someone who, early in his or her career, including teaching, decides, James Binko: I can do this, but boy, I'd really like to be somewhere else.

James Binko: Well, to think of spending another five, ten, fifteen, twenty or more years in an environment where you feel stuck… James Binko: Who wants to be there, and what makes you think that kids, in this particular case of teaching students, will profit by your sour disposition? James Binko: So, yeah, the time the years you've spent trying to teach, and it doesn't work. James Binko: They won't be wasted if you choose not to waste them.

James Binko: Be a good problem solver. Karen Blair: But it can be rewarding. James Binko: Oh yes. James Binko: Most of us who teach and enjoy teaching could do other things.

James Binko: But we choose not to in part, not solely, but in part because we enjoy what we're doing. James Binko: And it is rewarding. James Binko: Try teaching. James Binko: Don't give up on the idea as a sophomore in college. You have an idea you'd like to teach. If you think you see in yourself some talents, I’d particularly encourage you to try teaching. It won't be wasted effort. It won't be wasted time. What the hell? You've got a whole life. Those of you sitting in the college classroom right now probably will live to be 100.

James Binko: You've got another 80 years to make those life decisions and you don't want to be stuck in doing something you don't enjoy. But if you think you would enjoy teaching, try it. Karen Blair: Well, now you've told a larger audience this. Karen Blair: By virtue of talking with us this afternoon. James Binko: Thank you.

Karen Blair: Thank you.