Interview with Francis Clay

Henderson, Sha-Nel: Alright. alrighty! So I will like to know so Henderson, Sha-Nel: alrighty. Henderson, Sha-Nel: I would like to formally introduce my myself again. So my name is Shannell Henderson, and I am a graduate student here at Towson, pursuing a degree in theatre. My goal is to use theatre as a vehicle for social change. I am interested in bridging the gap of wealth inequities in black communities. Before we get started

I want to confirm that it that you did sign the oral history release form. Frank Clay: Believe I did. Okay, and that it is alright for us to record. Yes, it's okay. Okay. Excellent. So this project. I am one of 3 of research assistants that are participating in the Tu oral history. And so we are so happy to have you before we get started with the questions. What would you prefer me to call you? Frank Clay: You can call me? Call me Francis Clay.

Frank Clay: Francis clay. So we'll go. We'll go with that. So everything Henderson, Sha-Nel: excellent, all right, Francis Clay. Henderson, Sha-Nel: When I watched the fiftieth iotified Sata anniversary. It meant you mentioned that you were recruited. Henderson, Sha-Nel: and my question is, why did you choose to attend Towson State College?

Frank Clay: Well, I was recruited by Charlie Fields from the basketball team in 1,970, I think he visited my house of 71 Frank Clay: and 72, and I ended up having a Campus visit and Frank Clay: and I had a number of campus visits, so you know, I had to make a choice between colleges, and what was really comfortable for me was that I could envision Frank Clay: everywhere. I need to go to be successful where I need to go to practice, where I need to go, to eat, where I need to go to classes and where I need to get sleep. So it was all in one area, some of the other schools we had to go here over there, and all that. So it was really simple for me.

Frank Clay: And you know I picked Talesome because Frank Clay: was important for me to graduate as well as play ball, and so II believe that I can make a commitment for 4 years Frank Clay: 2,000 at the time, you know, I started out as a freshman. Henderson, Sha-Nel: Ok, we have the information that you were a business major.

Henderson, Sha-Nel: and you were a communications mass communications minor. Henderson, Sha-Nel: Is that was that the first choice. And then you just okay. Frank Clay: I have Frank Clay: always wanted to own my own business, and business was my first choice. fortunately, a lot of my roommates

Frank Clay: in actually all the 3 of the 5 Frank Clay: members of my charter line. I wouldify theta Frank Clay: my fraternity brothers, we were all business mates, in fact, we were 3 out of the Frank Clay: 5

Frank Clay: business students to graduate 1976. So there wasn't that many of us, in fact. Frank Clay: you had Frank Clay: advisors, telling us that we shouldn't take those courses, that we should focus on socialology and visit and all that. So we kind of went against the green back then and there. That was one of the discriminating factors that. Frank Clay: was obvious at Towson, that they were pointing us to professions or careers that were quite limited. And

Frank Clay: and that was a that was sometimes difficult to deal with. Henderson, Sha-Nel: Well, that brings me to my next question. Were you. Did you know anything about Towson State's reputation prior to attending? Frank Clay: Yeah, I knew it was a teacher's college. I knew there's a lot of women there. Frank Clay: So we we were the first

Frank Clay: We were the first a group of males to come on Towson when it became coed. Frank Clay: so we knew that this was a a school that that was centered around change Frank Clay: we know about the protests that were taking place at Towson about the war. Women were very vocal, very strong about women's independence, women's rights and things of that nature. Frank Clay: So we were in. We were coming into an environment that was

Frank Clay: really about making changes and Frank Clay: and Frank Clay: and that was okay with me. II could deal with that. Henderson, Sha-Nel: You mentioned the the climate on campus by wanting you to pursue other majors outside of the business, Major, that you were pursuing. Was there anything else going on on Towson's campus that you could tell through the racial climate at that time.

Frank Clay: Well, that's that's quite interesting, because it. You know, we we were coming up we were coming up at a time when there was a lot of Frank Clay: social arrests. It was the end of the Vietnam war. Frank Clay: How? How would I say it it it really. Frank Clay: it really wasn't prevalent. You didn't see it, but it was more systematic. And you can start to see these expressions as

Frank Clay: the as the number of African Americans students came on campus campus, I should say. Frank Clay: man, you know, going back 50 years. Henderson, Sha-Nel: So Frank Clay: so in the beginning, I mean, we were less than 1%.

Frank Clay: You know the student body back then. So I think we were half a percent. Frank Clay: And look at it today, it's 40%. But we were a coming on campus. Everything was new, everything because it was a coed. So Frank Clay: It was hard to read people sometime to make a judgment on whether it was something that was racial versus something that was just new. We were just you are you responding to me because Frank Clay: we're we're just new students, or are you just.

Frank Clay: you know, coming off because you just don't like the color of my skin and things of that nature. So it was kind of. Frank Clay: It was kind of a situation where the campus was trying to mirror the the social Frank Clay: environment that we were coming from. Frank Clay: So where there were protesters for civil rights and everything. We wanted to be a part of that. And and we did express ourselves on those issues. And that created a little rift for people who weren't used to that, but that was

Frank Clay: helpful, not only for us to express ourselves, but it was also helpful Frank Clay: for the general population of Towson, who had never even heard of civil rights, and some of the challenges that were going on, or who didn't even know that some of the things that they were doing were discriminatory or prejudice. Frank Clay: so we were going through kind of this sensitivity. Frank Clay: Awareness at the time when we first came on. It wasn't until I think, the

Frank Clay: The second year Frank Clay: that things started to be very obvious that there was a force of Frank Clay: discrimination, or there was a force that was really attempting to cause an issue Frank Clay: for the emerging number of African-american students. Because I think

Frank Clay: I think the Administration Frank Clay: was trying to meet his obligations, and we had quotas back then for affirmative action. Frank Clay: equal opportunity, employment famous for women. Frank Clay: so there was this.

Frank Clay: and and we have the Gi bill Frank Clay: for for our veterans returning. So coming from coming from an environment like Baltimore, where 41% of the population was African American allowed to be turning veterans coming to Towson. Frank Clay: To articulate Frank Clay: their expressions about the war and things of that nature, and they were bringing, you know, Voice, that a lot of us didn't fully appreciate it, but we learned from it.

Frank Clay: But we were integrating all these different things into Towson in a very short period of time, and Towson was really a place where you could express yourself. Frank Clay: I guess, for me. Frank Clay: It wasn't until Frank Clay: the tower like. Put

Frank Clay: a a article in the tower like that. That kind of Frank Clay: threw me off. Frank Clay: They they really. What's that? I say, you remember that article? Oh, yeah, I remember. I remember it very very vividly. I mean it. It was an article that had a depiction of Frank Clay: Ku Klux Klan. And then it had the bsu there, and

Frank Clay: there was Frank Clay: a statement Frank Clay: that was in the tower, like that kind of elaborate, elaborated who really needs blacks, anyways, that that kind of having played almost as Frank Clay: a year of basketball for full year.

Frank Clay: that that bothered me that really that really. Frank Clay: you know, cause it was one of those things I remember being young, and I'm like saying, you know, here we are trying to, you know. Come here to play basketball, improve the reputation of the school, and do all these great things for every. Bring everybody together and tower like, allow it. Allow this Frank Clay: commentary to be in the paper Frank Clay: that that basically says who needs blacks, anyway for a nice white black for a nice white school like Towson, I think, was something like that.

Henderson, Sha-Nel: Did you find? Henderson, Sha-Nel: Go ahead! Did you find that in those times that did you have like support from any kind of services or professors, or any type of programs that offer support in. Frank Clay: There was very few. I only have one Frank Clay: African male professor at the time.

Frank Clay: That was Dr. Chandler. Frank Clay: and he was having his own challenges. I remember being a class with a Doctor Taylor, who was a professor of business law, and you know the students were giving him any respect. Frank Clay: and he could he couldn't deal with. I had to stand up and say, Hey, you know. Look you, you all need to respect him like you all respect the rest of the professors also, we will have a little issue here. I mean, it's that's the kind of relationship that Frank Clay: that I have with administrative. We all support it supported one another.

Frank Clay: because it it was tough. Even even the 7 administrators that we had. You know they were doing double duty. They weren't able to do the work they were supposed to do. They were doing other things additional duties. Frank Clay: So you know, nobody was complaining, but it was an unfair situation, and it got to the point, like like yourself. Frank Clay: where we had to stand up Frank Clay: for everyone, so everyone could be better

Frank Clay: be okay at at Towson. So if there was a professor who was being abused by certain students and disrupting the class and being disrespectful, respectful, he, he or she wasn't in a position to call them out because they lose their job. So we, as students, had to call him out. Frank Clay: and then that, and then that got to be a little confrontational. But you know we work through it. But you know that that was the environment that you know. So we supported one another until things got better. But II Frank Clay: I want to say that the tower, like was the platform for these expressions. It it was where Frank Clay: what people thought was expressed in writing and in pictures.

Frank Clay: and I personally took that to heart and ended up Frank Clay: joining the Tower light Frank Clay: newspaper to put A different spin, and and don't get me wrong. I think some of the things that Frank Clay: were said

Frank Clay: deserve discussion, you know, because some people didn't understand why we why we needed a black student union. you know. So they didn't understand why. Why take this money and give it to 1% Frank Clay: of the students. Frank Clay: which is a legitimate. It's a legitimate question. And for that reason we created the United front against racism. Frank Clay: And we had a

Frank Clay: a teacher Frank Clay: 70, 73. Frank Clay: And that was pretty. That was pretty deep. I mean, I learned a lot about Frank Clay: white people's views, why, they thought the way they did, and they learned a lot about what we were thinking. Why, we thought

Frank Clay: the way we thought. Frank Clay: I mean, they were introduced to systematic race and understand that concept. Frank Clay: You, you would say Henderson, Sha-Nel: yes, sir, on campus you were saying that the Tyrolite was the the means of expression. Now I've read some of the articles that you have written. I also noticed that you were very vociferous about your ideas, and and very clear on. You know what you stood on

Henderson, Sha-Nel: while you were up a part of the tower like. Can you tell us a little bit more about ebony news. Frank Clay: Yeah. ebony news. Let's see. Ebony news. was a Frank Clay: was was our way of communicating directly to a targeted audience about things that we were concerned about Frank Clay: ebony news was something that

Frank Clay: that we negotiated with the editor Frank Clay: to create this this type of news so that it wouldn't be integrated with the other things. The towel that the tower light was Frank Clay: was doing, and and and also personally a motivating reasons what the the Frank Clay: the

Frank Clay: the article or the column was to get Frank Clay: as more African Americans came on campus. Get them to pick up the towel light and read it, because the tower like had a lot of good information in it. I mean it it. Frank Clay: You know, we just didn't need to look at Frank Clay: black issues.

Frank Clay: We needed to look at what Tower Light was putting out there for all students. I mean, we're all paying the same tuition. But at the same time we had this need to communicate directly. So when people picked it up, they know this was directly for them or for those people in the general community wanted to know more about African Americans than there were Frank Clay: people who wanted to understand. The culture will be better it was. It was written to be informative about our issues. You know it was written to let people know about healthcare writ. Let them know about you know Frank Clay: how to get tutoring, how to get. You know all the things that we were struggling come came into, because, like you know, my, my, my My 2 Frank Clay: fret brother will tell you that that they came. They were selected because of affirmative action.

Frank Clay: So you know, they didn't necessarily have themselves together 100%. So tutoring, counselling. Frank Clay: getting. All these other things were really helpful for us to. Really, you know, get up to speed so that we could graduate, you know, at the level of competency that we needed to be in order to do the things we wanted to do in life. So you know, I was really happy to Frank Clay: negotiate that with the with the editor to get that article in, I was actually surprised that they printed it beyond. Henderson, Sha-Nel: Were you the only reporter at the time that that was the author of Ebony News.

Frank Clay: Yes, I was II started it and Frank Clay: I don't know. II guess I like I love. I love to write so you know I got pieces from other people and and and put it put it all together. Frank Clay: as far as I can remember I was the only one. Yes. Henderson, Sha-Nel: Hmm, okay.

Henderson, Sha-Nel: This also brings me to, because what I'm hearing here is like, you are truly a change agent, and at this time with so much going on on campus, and it sounds really layered. So I am really curious to know what inspired you to charter a new chapter of iota. 5. Theta at the campus with less than 1% of black students. Frank Clay: Well, you know. Frank Clay: you know, everybody wants to have a feeling of belonging. Frank Clay: I didn't have the the strongest family background, you know, as far as male figures being oldest in my family, and things of that nature.

Frank Clay: and we had one prominent paternity on campus Frank Clay: there was a white fraternity, and and I probably would have joined that had I not found out about Theta, which is the Alpha chapter or the home chapter, was at Morgan State College, or Morgan State University, as it is today. Frank Clay: I was fortunate that when I got into that mindset of picking a fraternity. Frank Clay: That option was presented to me. and when I got exposed to it.

Frank Clay: it was just a good fit fit fit for me, I mean it was a the brothers were accommodating. It was good fit for Towson as well Frank Clay: because they were so. The the the the founders of fraternity are only 10 min away from Towson. They live, they live Frank Clay: near us so we could get all the support we needed to Frank Clay: start an African American or black fraternity on campus. And and you know, we had a lot of things to

Frank Clay: to navigate. You know we had to work with the Administration. We had to work with the Dean. We had to work with the counselors. I mean it was lot of vetting on us, but because tap, because out of 5 data started at Morgan. Frank Clay: they were able to see Frank Clay: where we were coming from, and the kind of values we were holding up leadership scholarships since infidelity. Frank Clay: Those were some of the the values that

Frank Clay: and brotherhood I mean, those were the the values that we were bringing to the campus. which, quite frankly, those of us who were on campus really needed. I mean, we needed that Frank Clay: that additional support to to build ourselves as as individuals. So it was very helpful. I started the chapter Frank Clay: because I wanted to bring that kind of. Frank Clay: I guess.

Frank Clay: hpc, you type environment bring some of that to to Towson so that we can have a social life because Frank Clay: we really didn't have any social life until you know my fraternity started there. I mean, we weren't really invited to the events that were taking place on campus, you know. When I started they were doing social events down at the Frank Clay: with the the Bunny Club, whatever they call it fifteenth anniversary that they were doing a lot of social events that you all didn't really participate in. Well, we just didn't know, nor did we have enough money, I mean, you know, we were. Frank Clay: We were putting all our stuff together in Scarborough Hall. That's where we started out, and

Frank Clay: we were happy that to do that. But you know that our numbers were small, so you know, we could have a nice party with 2030 people, and that was a good evening. Frank Clay: and it worked out well. you know, they were getting dressed up, and Frank Clay: having limos pick them up and Frank Clay: and doing all these great things. We didn't have that kind of money as a collective group. So

Frank Clay: you know, we we just had to make it up as we went, but it turned out to be really good. You know the the things that we were doing eventually. Frank Clay: we got to the point where the the general campus community could Frank Clay: really participate in some of our parties, and that was nice to see as time went on, because we were part of basketball team. I was on basketball team, so I usually the Frank Clay: and I was a resident assistant.

Frank Clay: so I could get away with a few things in the dorm. But the party would be, you know, usually in our dorm after a game, and everybody that came in. And it it helped. It allowed us to get to know one another in a different way. Besides, you know, in class. So the fraternity was a key Frank Clay: component of establishing social life Frank Clay: at Towson for the African community. Without a doubt the first couple of years were there. If you could think of anyone or anyone's that helped you create or like you said there were administrators and counselors. Are there any people that you could think off the top of your head that that help you?

Henderson, Sha-Nel: With the process? Frank Clay: Well, the the the main person that I had on my side was President Fisher. Frank Clay: I was. I was very close to President Fisher, so with my fraternity brothers. Frank Clay: and Mr. Wayne Shelley.

Frank Clay: who was the Vice President of business and finance. He was helpful. Frank Clay: We had. Dean Knox was really, you know, in our corner. Frank Clay: People like Sonny Gaston Frank Clay: was was

Frank Clay: was helpful, you know, people who were around the Bsu. So Frank Clay: The main one was President Fischer because he, he! Frank Clay: He, in his second year put out in a message in the town, like Frank Clay: to embrace diversity, to embrace, affirm the affirmative action program when he and and I kind of asked him and encouraged him to do that, because until he went on record.

Frank Clay: we're endorsing affirmative action. Frank Clay: The hidden elements that were not really definable until he did that. They they were just pushing along. Once he came out Frank Clay: it was verbal. Then I think a lot of people came out of the closet and started supporting Frank Clay: African-american students in a different way. So we were helpful in giving him feedback

Frank Clay: on that we were trying to let him know that we're not. We're not a militant. We're not trying to do this. We're just trying to enrich the the campus of spirit experience. Frank Clay: and again share some of our fraternity values. Frank Clay: and to make it, you know, make life enjoyable Frank Clay: for us on campus, just like it was for so many other students. So his support was

Frank Clay: was actually great. And and you know the in the Bsu was was also. you know the leadership there was there. The Bsu was Frank Clay: you know, critical as a good gathering place. It helped us Frank Clay: with tutoring. We were doing tutoring with one another. Frank Clay: got financial aid help. We. They supported the United front against racism, the teaching

Frank Clay: just a lot, you know, lot of things happening to be issue Henderson, Sha-Nel: that we're the Frank Clay: say that again. Henderson, Sha-Nel: with the Vsu working with all I read something that you were a part of the black student Union

Henderson, Sha-Nel: able to accomplish with them as well. Frank Clay: Can you say that again? Cause I think he came and broken up? Henderson, Sha-Nel: Probably tech and sports web? Wendy? Okay. Henderson, Sha-Nel: like you hear? Bye.

Frank Clay: I still didn't hear. You came in broken up a little bit. Frank Clay: And now you go delay. Henderson, Sha-Nel: I'm here.

Henderson, Sha-Nel: Okay. Frank Clay: now you back. Can you hear me? Henderson, Sha-Nel: I can hear you, man.

Frank Clay: can you hear me? I see Henderson, Sha-Nel: I can hear you. Okay. Frank Clay: I can hear you.

Henderson, Sha-Nel: usage. Henderson, Sha-Nel: Do the Henderson, Sha-Nel: with the united front against racism. Henderson, Sha-Nel: Of organized.

Frank Clay: You came and broke it. I'm sorry. Todd-Diaz, Ashley: And now, because our your audio is coming in and out, do you wanna paste your question into the chat? Frank Clay: I didn't see anything in the chat yet. Henderson, Sha-Nel: It's a question in the chat.

Frank Clay: Okay? The question is, who was all a part of organizing the united front against racism? Wow! Frank Clay: There were a number of groups that were a part of that effort. Frank Clay: they were. Frank Clay: We had

Frank Clay: professors, students, we had the sea was part of that. There were Frank Clay: We'll see Henderson, Sha-Nel: the bsu. Frank Clay: Let's instrument on that.

Frank Clay: and there were just some other isolated Frank Clay: organizations that God! I wish I had it Frank Clay: in front of me. Frank Clay: I can't recall all of them by name. But there was. There were multiple groups that

Frank Clay: that that contributed to that effort. We had speakers Frank Clay: on various Tu top topics, you know defining racism and things of that nature. Sha-Nel’s : Can you all see me? Okay. Sha-Nel’s : can you? Can you hear me?

Todd-Diaz, Ashley: We can hear you. Chanel? Francis, you are muted. Sha-Nel’s : Okay. Frank Clay: cool. I'm here. Sha-Nel’s : Okay, great, I have to switch devices. I mean, we were getting so good into the interview. There's no way. II just I couldn't just wanted to keep typing in the questions. Okay.

Sha-Nel’s : but yes, I heard your response, though you said the Bsu Sga helped with with the united front against racism in in in our our professors and and students. Frank Clay: They were. It was a collaborative effort. Frank Clay: Yeah, when when that when that took place. Frank Clay: We realized that there were some voices that were not of the Towson community. We couldn't identify who they were, because a lot of the different things that were put in the tower like

Frank Clay: came without anybody's name. Frank Clay: They did. That's that's the one thing I didn't like about the towel light, and I dress. That is that if somebody will say something they need to go ahead and put their name against it. They're not gonna say anything then that that should not have been printed. I mean, we had a big discussion on that, and I think they came to that conclusion that that was not right, but but they also. Frank Clay: was aware that there was some people who were not happy with affirmative action, and President Fisher wrote a a, a, a commentary, and basically said, You know, to contact the Dean, if you have any questions, the Dean, it was over affirmative action, and so we had this negotiation. Unfortunately, I was at the center of it, where I could see, you know. Frank Clay: that most of the students really weren't. you know.

Frank Clay: prejudice or showing a lot of racial hatred, or anything of that nature, not to the tune to some of these statements that were in in the Tower light. But there were some elements that didn't like Frank Clay: what was going on. We did have professionals who really didn't want us there, I mean, who were really showing some systematic discrimination, you know, by not giving us information they gave to other students by be it harder on us than other students, or grading us differently. So we had a lot of that going on Frank Clay: but they thought that we would go away. Well, we didn't go away, and Andson is what it is today, you know. You know, I just wish the person that wrote that article that said, who need black. Anyway, I wish I could see them today, cause they have. We just Frank Clay: not done anything? Who knows what would happen? And you know I would just let them say, because we stood up.

Frank Clay: That's one thing I'm a proud about for that particular article. You know this 40 over 40% minorities at Towson today Sha-Nel’s : as well. Frank Clay: Yeah. Because the STA. Had the money. Frank Clay: So II was. I was kinda like that, you know, but being in business, I was, I was, you know, understood how business work you follow the money? And I was like, Okay, we're sitting over here, the Bsu Argin and everything when all the students money goes to the Sda. But we don't have a voice

Frank Clay: with the Sga leadership. So there was a disconnect in communication. Because how things filtered to. you know, to the Vsu or Wi. You know, those people who are voting. They didn't understand what's going on. That's was the Frank Clay: that was the impetus for for the teaching was to educate everybody about these issues that were larger than us. I mean they were, but it was in the tradition of town to protest. Frank Clay: So ain't like, you know, if we protested because of civil rights affirmative action, we had to right to do that just as well as the, you know, when it was a women's college women's were protesting for women's rights, and and you know, for the Birth Control pill, I mean, we had every right to speak up to. Frank Clay: So that's when people saw it in that vein, or, you know, when Towson was protesting against the war. Well, there's no different us protesting for what we believe in, too. So when we got around that, and everybody started to understand it just enough people, you know, you might say, Malcolm, I forget his last name. It did the tipping point. Anyway. If you didn't read that book you should read it. But the tipping point. We had a tipping point

Frank Clay: with the Tower light. Frank Clay: Staff! Frank Clay: To say that the little things we were doing were making a big difference in the campus community. and during something like the ebony news Frank Clay: was really helping us, helping the newspaper to get more readership, because everybody in the beginning didn't really want to deal with it. Once those articles were printed. Nobody picked it up, and that was a disadvantage, because there really was some good articles

Frank Clay: in the 1,000 Tower like that deserve. Sha-Nel’s : as the as the minority director of Sta. Frank Clay: Did you have certain responsibilities, did you? What was it that you that you did as the my, my, my title was direct of minority relations. So essentially, I was the Frank Clay: ambassador

Frank Clay: for the Bsu. II would be like the representative of the Bsu Frank Clay: in the Sda, so you could put the Bsu in the Sda. Yet the BSU. Needed funding. Frank Clay: and so we did. We just didn't have the representation. So when things came up for things that we wanted to do in the Vsu. I was the one who kind of put it together, make sure it got on the table, and if there was any issues or a misunderstandings, or the something that needs to express, I kinda gave it a second voice. Frank Clay: So the Bsu was coming like real strong, you know. We demanded this, and rightfully so. And I was playing a little political game. Okay, how do we get enough votes to get cause. That's what it came down to, how we get enough votes

Frank Clay: to get an allocation. Or, you know, money sent that way, or get support for some program that we were trying to do, particularly in the area of tutoring, counseling when we had the African American Culture center. Those things were voted on and getting student representation there was some of the things that I think Frank Clay: we're we're significant. So Frank Clay: that that's what that was about. Sha-Nel’s : Wow!

Sha-Nel’s : Well, that brings me to something else that you will spear headed the the People's Home coming. Frank Clay: You know the People's homecoming. Frank Clay: I really don't remember as the people's homecoming. cause we did a lot of different things. So keep in mind is is majority women. Frank Clay: It's a women's university. Okay?

Frank Clay: And what we were trying to do Frank Clay: as as the African American men with a few of us. Okay, mainly my fraternity brothers, we were trying to say, you know, when we looked at our sisters. Frank Clay: They weren't getting the same kind of opportunities to be given accolades like some of the the other students. And so we were just trying to create those pockets. I mean, we you know, their their parents weren't given those opportunities. So we created, you know, home car nation Frank Clay: the one that I remember was the carnation that we sponsored, and it was all all was done is to see our

Frank Clay: sisters, our female students, our peers. Frank Clay: the in the glamour. Frank Clay: you know, in a glamour image. Frank Clay: you know, and get recognized, and let their parents come and see them dressed up, and things of that nature. So yeah, we we put together a carnation we crowned a a queen.

Frank Clay: it was a beautiful event. We we took all our Frank Clay: wine bottles over the years. We would save up all our wine bottles, and we painted them brown and gold, and we took toilet paper out of the from the and we created. We got what they call a chicken fence. Frank Clay: and we spray the toilet paper and made a backdrop, and we we did all that with just little bit of money Frank Clay: and everything. And then we we sold tickets, probably one of the biggest tickets we sold. I think it was like

Frank Clay: $20 or something coming at the student Union. but we knew that the parents would come to see Frank Clay: their daughters be recognized. And so that that's what that was. It was Frank Clay: it was a beautiful event. Frank Clay: And I think, when you look at a career or or yeah, we'll say career. But when you look at your time, your campus experience.

Frank Clay: That was one time that you know the the women got a chance to to dress up and submit to and Frank Clay: and keep in mind. Also. we had a lot of off-campus people who we were trying to help Frank Clay: have a campus atmosphere. You know they're coming on campus and going home, and really not understanding Frank Clay: what the whole campus experiences about.

Frank Clay: So we were giving those people also reason to come on campus. Stay a little bit late. Interact with the people in there. See what it's like to be in a dorm see what we go through. And so we created friends like that. I mean, that's how I found one of my fraternity brothers like he came to a party. Blah blah, we interact. And Frank Clay: so a lot was being done at the beginning. That was really beautiful. I mean, it was a beautiful time. It wasn't really have really any issues Frank Clay: to speak up, so to speak. Sha-Nel’s : Then it sounds to me that you are creating community and connection in a time that there wasn't much of it that that is it, and it, and not only with black students, but with white students too. I mean.

Sha-Nel’s : what would you consider? Oh, please, one of one of my. Frank Clay: my closest friends, Alison, you know, lived in my dorm. She she she was with me through high school. Frank Clay: you know, and and she would come to some of our parties and Frank Clay: and then bring her friends. And and even today, you know, we all socialize together. So I don't think that would happen. you know, if we didn't have that experience where everybody got to understand who they were, and see we could all laugh and party, and have a good time. Drink some beer

Frank Clay: and that that was cool. Course beer wasn't allowed, but we we got it good. Sha-Nel’s : Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, you know, it's still a college experience, is there? Is there? Is there something that you wish that people would ask you about iotified data that you would like to share that people don't know. Frank Clay: really, I think that again, you know, we were about brotherhood, scholarship, leadership, fidelity and citizenship. Those those are our core values. And hopefully we carried ourselves in that way. I know the campus acknowledged all the founders with a a recent monument. And we appreciate that, because that's Frank Clay: at the Dean Chapman quad

Frank Clay: that area Frank Clay: I I'm glad I lived long enough to see that, because that was the one time Towson really acknowledged Frank Clay: African Americans as a as a group, and what we we contributed to it, but it also made us feel at home. Frank Clay: and and the the way we raise money for that was significant.

Frank Clay: No, we just one. We just we just we're we're we're tight 1,000 tigers, as you can see. Frank Clay: Yeah, this is like. Frank Clay: this is me. So you know, we're Frank Clay: we had a good time. We don't want to take away from

Frank Clay: our campus experience as a tiger. Frank Clay: We were just making it have more meaning Frank Clay: to be a tiger. And I think my fraternity and it's values. I want people to know that Frank Clay: we were just trying to be, you know, good students. I mean, citizenship was one. I mean, scholarship is one of our, our, our our values. And so

Frank Clay: my line, you know, 3 like I said 3 out of the 5 were business majors, and we all graduated, and I should say that one of my proudest moments for things that you know I graduate with all these things you think I've done, or may I may have done. I graduated in 4 years I used to Frank Clay: have to hide Frank Clay: in the library to get my studies done. I was. I was pretty popular back then in there, but the only way I could stay in my dorm room is study. So I had to go to the library. But you know Frank Clay: my fraternity is still in it in me scholarship and getting my degree was very important to all of us on our the the chart of mine. So we didn't. We never wanted to be a situation where, hey? We were fraternity, and we partied, which we did quite well.

Frank Clay: I should say. Frank Clay: hey, hey! We were. We were 3 of the 5 Frank Clay: African American business students that graduated 1976 with only 5 of us in the business. I mean, it's like we were 3 of them, and we all graduated in 4 years, and 2 of them came through on affirmative action programs. And so this all, you know, Towson, is a great opportunity to get your education. Frank Clay: And I think that we want, we want people to know that

Frank Clay: our fraternity stood for that Frank Clay: we we had. If you planned, you had to go to study Hall. Frank Clay: We did all these other things that you might have heard about, but we definitely had our our pledges in Study Hall. Make sure that they passed their classes and and graduated. So that's that's what I would Frank Clay: want to say.

Sha-Nel’s : Well, my last question would be Sha-Nel’s : if you could turn back the hands of time. Is there something that you wish you had done differently, or that you would want to add on to your accomplishments at Towson State. Frank Clay: You said, if if Sha-Nel’s : if you could turn back to turn back

Sha-Nel’s : the hands of time, is there something that first of all, you can't turn back the hands of time. Frank Clay: And so I would say that Frank Clay: the time that Towson gave us. Frank Clay: or that gives any student is in their hands

Frank Clay: to make the most of it while they are there. and I could say that while I was there I made the most of Frank Clay: the time that I had in my hands Frank Clay: to be everything that I've become. Frank Clay: and I owe a great portion of that

Frank Clay: to the education and the college experience and the athletic experience Frank Clay: that I enjoy Frank Clay: I endured Frank Clay: achieved at at at Towson. So

Frank Clay: in Towson. Sha-Nel’s : I I'll leave with 2 stories, can I? We have time for 2 stories. Frank Clay: So 2 stories. Frank Clay: The first one would be

Frank Clay: have to do with my teammate, Ray Tanner Hill. Frank Clay: We both came in Frank Clay: as freshmen we were were the one of the first Frank Clay: male students in the dorms. They opened up the dorms. We were co-ed. We were the first in there. They let the athletes come in first.

Frank Clay: and Frank Clay: his father Frank Clay: came to every one of his games. My father didn't. If if I if I could count. On one hand Frank Clay: my father came his father in his 4 years. His father didn't miss one, but his father

Frank Clay: treated me like a son. Frank Clay: and whatever he gave to Ray he made sure he gave to me. Frank Clay: He used to have food, money, whatever. Frank Clay: and for 4 years he did that until both me and Ray. We were both captains

Frank Clay: when we graduated and we were both business majors. Frank Clay: I'm talking about teammates, but I'm talking about the importance of a teammate. I'm talking about the importance of friendships that you have while you're at Towson Frank Clay: with the time that you have and how it manifests itself. So we graduate this. His father's been my father. Figure fast forward. Frank Clay: ray tan. When I turn 60 ray tan the hill comes to my my sixtieth celebration. Over 200 people.

Frank Clay: and he gives me his jersey. Frank Clay: Okay? Frank Clay: And I wonder what you know, cause we were very competitive. And I should add Frank Clay: that his father ends up living in a nursing home 5 min from my house.

Frank Clay: So the so the Frank Clay: the college student that he used to come. See, now I'm going to see him every week, cause his son is still in Baltimore, and I'm visiting him. Frank Clay: Help, you know, in in communicating back to my teammate how his father's doing. I let his father know. I let his son know when his father was about to Frank Clay: to pass in in like 3 days he got there before he passed. So, because I was there, I was able to let him know that friendship

Frank Clay: manifest itself to my sixtieth Frank Clay: birthday. He gives me his jersey. I wonder why he's doing that. Frank Clay: And 2 weeks after that he he passes. Frank Clay: I'm just saying, Towson, allow me to have a friend like that

that. Frank Clay: Allow me to Frank Clay: make the good use of the time that I had to the point that as time went on we were more than just friends. We were more than just students. We were partners through life. Frank Clay: And we have this appreciation that started back at Towson.

Frank Clay: The next story I want to share with you is Wayne Shelley, who was the Vice President of Finance. Frank Clay: and when I came into town, believe it or not. We used to have. Frank Clay: we used to have a 3 by 5 cards. We didn't. We didn't have all these computers and everything, and there were only us limited number of classes you could get into. Well, because of a lot of different things that I will repeat. I got in Frank Clay: the last day. the last hour. and I end up taking 2 or 300 level courses because they were the only courses I could get into. One of those courses was with Wayne Shelley was a night class.

Frank Clay: It was a very difficult course in Frank Clay: in business management lot of reading. Frank Clay: and Mister Shelley, who came to all my games incidentally used to, was telling me early in, he said. Frank Clay: Francis.

Frank Clay: you don't, you can. You can drop out of this class. But you know this is a tough class, a lot of reading, and I'm going to give you the grade that you deserve. I said, no problem, I said, would you just give me whatever grade I deserve. But I'm not dropping out. Frank Clay: and he saw me fight through that, you know. Go to practice, and all the different things I was doing, and I passed that class with A. C Frank Clay: fast forward. I graduate. Frank Clay: I go into the military. I come out and I'm looking for a job.

Frank Clay: Wayne Shelley. Frank Clay: was asked to become the CEO CEO Frank Clay: of a Frank Clay: cellular startup company called American Tele Service.

Frank Clay: Okay. Frank Clay: he tells me I'll let you have this opportunity. If you. if you want stock. Frank Clay: I'll give it to you, or you can have a salary plus commission. So of course, I had a family that took the salary plus Commission. Frank Clay: That company ended up being sold to cellular. One cellular one turned into Verizon.

Frank Clay: Okay? Frank Clay: And one of the reasons why it happened was because of the sales that I generated Frank Clay: early on at in the startup. I created the most cash deals for that startup that kinda hit the tipping point, so to speak, that boosted that company to the point that it had proof of performance. Frank Clay: And it was my demonstration that led to that. So what am I saying?

Frank Clay: Because of that relationship at Towson. you and I are enjoying the cell phones that we have today? Frank Clay: And only mistake I made, I should have took the stock. So I tell everybody about that story, you know, but you know, and and quite frankly, a lot of people are benefiting from that I tell that story to a lot of people that you know. I didn't know about the opportunities, but I was afforded the opportunity, and I always think, Mr. Shelley, not so much for what I could have been in sell you there. Frank Clay: but for allowing me to stay in this class. I learned so much from that class and and because of him, you know, I I've done some great things with business as well. So Frank Clay: just wanted to put those 2 stories out there. So it's been Towson love affair for me in a lot of different ways. and I'm so happy to see all the students there

Frank Clay: doing great things. I just hope that they appreciate the Frank Clay: the early history that went on, and I'm thankful for all my friends and Frank Clay: in professors Frank Clay: who

Frank Clay: kept an open mind because it was a point where things could have gotten nasty and and dirty, and all that. We didn't go down it road and work with President Fisher. We were, we were able to keep it above Frank Clay: confrontation and make it a learning experience that was in time with what was going on. Veterans will coming back. The world was ending when we were getting their rights. We're all smoking in Lovin, and all these things going on. Sha-Nel’s : And all of this wonderful information that you have shared with us. That's another reason why we're doing this project is so that we can have this archive so that students that are coming to 1,000 know the history and and can appreciate where it has come from, because without it, we wouldn't be where we are today. Sha-Nel’s : I I'm just so grateful. And I want to say, thank you for allowing us to interview you today.

Frank Clay: And you know, I appreciate the everything that tells us doing, you guys so dynamic right now, and I wish everybody the best and most success Frank Clay: in their careers, and don't forget to give back. Sha-Nel’s : That's what I would say. Thank you. Sha-Nel’s : Have a great day. Hi!