Interview with Frances Bond

Karen Blair: Dr. Bond, thank you so much for coming and sharing with us your preparation to become a teacher at Towson University and your subsequent career in education. This will add mightily to our oral history project, which we hope will show the evolution of [teacher education] at Towson University across time. Where we'd like to start is with your social context, if you will. Where you grew up, the point in your life when you considered becoming a teacher and your choice of Towson University. Fran Bond: OK, I can remember those things, Karen! I grew up in Baltimore. I'm a Baltimorean. I was born in Little Italy. My parents were both immigrants, Italian immigrants and so for the first few years of my life, I went to school at St. Leo's school in Little Italy. And then when I was about seven years old, we moved to Bel Air Road, which was the new suburban area and we just thought that was a wonderful change. But I did miss Little Italy and the community there. I went to parochial school, all my life, at Little Flower and then Catholic High. Catholic High, of course, was an all girls’ school, so there was a little difference there in the context of school. At that time, as you know, women had few choices in careers. You could be a secretary, a teacher, a nurse, or religious. And actually, I did want to be a religious. I wanted to be a nun. But when I graduated from high school at the age of 17, my parents asked if I would just wait until my twenties and prolong going into the religious. So I agreed. And I agreed to go to college and they were delighted. As I said, they were immigrants who did not have a high school education, so they were just thrilled that there was going to be someone in the family to get an education. My father especially. And I always say that my father, who did not go to high school, was the wisest man I ever knew. And he would say to me over and over, "Francesca, get an education. They can't take that away from you." And so, it was decided that I would come to State Teacher's College, primarily for two reasons. The first: there was no tuition at the time, as you know, because there was a tuition waiver. If you promised to teach in Maryland for two years after graduation, there was no tuition, and the second reason was that it was accessible by bus and streetcar from my home, although it took over an hour to get here. So this was a good choice for me to come to Towson. K.B.: Once you arrived on campus and you got started as a student, what do you recall about your coursework here, especially your courses in education? And I guess what I'm getting at is, do you recall that it was mostly theoretical in nature or was there a practical bend to them? Or maybe a combination of the two? And also, were you in schools before you did your official student teaching experience? Did you get to observe? Did you participate in any kind of way? F.B.: That's a lot to answer. But when I came to Towson, as I said, I had been in a parochial setting the last four years with all girls. So it was a bit of a culture shock. I was here with students from all over Maryland. Very different atmosphere here. Although the women outnumbered the men probably three to one, there were still men on campus. That sometimes proved to be a distraction. I enjoyed my courses, but again, I found that in the parochial school, there was much more hand holding in the process. Here, there were lots of lectures, lots of memorization, lots of quizzes. And so I found this to be somewhat of an adjustment that I had to go through, especially with the liberal arts courses. I had some wonderful professors. I just had to adjust my own style of learning to the style of teaching that they proclaimed. When I began my courses in education, I knew that I had made the right selection. I knew that I wanted to be a teacher of young children. And found, “This is my niche.” At the time, the Lida Lee Tall Laboratory School was located in Van Bokkelen and most of the children there were children of faculty members and so we would observe, but I don't remember participating in the classroom as such. There were lots of observations, but not going in to teach lessons. We observed faculty members who taught a lesson and then brought it back to the classroom to match it with the methodology that they were teaching. So there was that connection there. I remember seeing faculty of art and music do demonstration lessons where we could observe and see their interaction with the children. So there were lots of interactions that way, but not so much going in and getting hands-on experiences, per se. K.B.: And you were going go be an elementary ed. major? F.B.: Actually, early childhood education. K.B.: And were children of that age being taught in the university school as well? F.B.: Yes. There was a kindergarten program here on the university campus. And surprisingly, the only jurisdiction in Maryland that had a kindergarten was Baltimore City Public Schools in the 1950's. So, I had this burning desire to be a kindergarten teacher of five year olds. So, I had to then focus on Baltimore City as a place to go in order to achieve that goal. K.B.: So, when you got to student teaching, were you able to then get student teaching experience with kindergarten? Or did you teach at a couple different grade levels? F.B.: Yes. Yes, I did. And I had a wonderful student teaching experience. -Two, actually. When I student taught, it was 1954 and it was the first year of desegregation in Maryland. My first school was Govans Elementary on York Road and I had a second grade there. I was partnered with a young man in the student teaching setting, so he and I were both students. This was a little bit unheard of that men were going into early childhood. Because the early childhood program here at Towson was separate from the elementary program. In early childhood, you were then considered to be certified from grades kindergarten to third grade. In elementary, first to the sixth grade. I wanted that kindergarten so bad that I thought I'm not limiting myself. I'm going to do this. I had a wonderful experience for about six or seven weeks at Govans Elementary. And then I was put into a school near Patterson Park Avenue. Now, that school was integrated. When I arrived in about November of that year, there were no incidents that I saw. And yet, I found it surprising that there was a security guard stationed at the entrance of the school every morning and every afternoon because this was a new concept with the integration. My kindergarten experience was very interesting. I spent long, long hours in that classroom with a super teacher, Mary Metz, and that November, Mary was to take on the lead in putting together a holiday extravaganza. So, after school, we worked on scenery, we worked on costumes, we worked on music. It was an experience til seven or eight o'clock at night sometimes! I rode the trolley and the bus to the school near Patterson Park. But Mary was very, very good. If we worked after seven o'clock, she would give me a ride back to campus and such. But that was a wonderful experience and again, every experience like that convinced me, "This is where you belong," "This is what you should be doing; teaching five year olds." I must say that my initial intention of becoming a nun was turned around when I met the man who was my future husband here in one of the classes, in the psychology class. Korb Bond was a year ahead of me and that was the end of that dream of going into the convent. But, it was something that resulted in four wonderful, wonderful sons and eight grandchildren, so, it was a good match there. It was a good thing all around that that worked out that way. K.B.: In your family experience, you certainly had an additional opportunity to be a teacher of young students and older students and even older students. F.B.: Yes. In my course of study, sometime in my life I had four sons, four young sons; I was working full time in education and going to get my Ph.D. at College Park. My mother was the strength of all of this in terms of taking care of the boys and helping me with that. And you know, I often think back. I didn't know my own grandparents. But my mother was the model grandmother. And I think that my skills today as a grandmother relate back to just looking at her. My adult sons today have such fond memories of Noni and the things that she did for them and her wonderful Italian cooking that I've never been able to match. But I think that she was a tremendous help in getting me through this time because it was hectic. K.B.: Absolutely, to say the least. I can't imagine. Very busy. F.B.: I was saying this recently to someone. My going on to school, my studying, my saying to the children, "I have to do homework", "I have to study". I think that set an example for them. I am very fortunate that all of my sons were good learners. They went on to get wonderful degrees. I believe I was a role model. K.B.: It certainly sounds like that. Absolutely. F.B.: And when they were getting their master's degree and they would complain about, "Oh, I have so much work to do!" I would say, "Tell me about it!" I can remember those days. K.B.: You can certainly silence some of that complaining in a hurry. You were a hard role model to follow. F.B.: Well, I don't know about that, but they were very much a part of not only my education, but my work here at Towson. It was not unusual to see them here on campus. They attended Lida Lee Tall. They attended the summer programs here. They attended the sports programs. So they were very much a part of this. However, the downside to that was when they had to select a college; they felt they didn't want to come to Towson because, "Oh, we went there." But one of my sons did graduate from Towson and it was wonderful. K.B.: Well, let's go back to the point in time when you were completing that student teaching experience and you're loving kindergarten. And I guess second grade was OK. At that point, how are you feeling about becoming a teacher? You had said earlier that perhaps you thought that this was your true calling. Did you have that sense of confidence about that choice? F.B.: Absolutely. I did. My college supervisor at that time, Zenith Velie, and she was a wonderful mentor. She gave me all kinds of encouragement and lavish praise, so I applied for a position in Baltimore City Public Schools because I wanted that kindergarten. You were required to take what was known as a placement test prior to being put on a list for employment in Baltimore City. K.B.: Isn't that interesting? I didn't know what. F.B.: Yes. I remember taking a placement test. And then I was told, although I have to say, it was never verified. I suspect that it is somewhat true that you were then placed on a list according to the results of the placement test, your GPA and your grades in student teaching. Now, at that time, there were grades given for both experiences along with a write up. I think somewhere along the line the grades for student teaching fell off. So, I was given this position at Brehms Lane Elementary School in Baltimore City. The irony of it was that the school was directly across the street from my parents' home, the home where I grew up. K.B.: Oh, my heavens. F.B.: Yet I had never set foot in that school in all my years because I had been in parochial school. But I had observed the school and looked at the teachers and I was just so excited to get this position. And, as I said, my parents lived right across the street. So my first year of teaching, they had an abundance of children- of five year olds. And so they had three teachers and two classrooms. And I was the low man on the totem pole. So I was the floater. And that meant that I went from classroom to classroom throughout the day when the other teachers might be outside or in the gym. And then there was a closet. Really, a closet that I took this group of twenty-five and thirty children to in the morning and in the afternoon. But, I survived that first year and I survived it very well. The second year, I was given my own classroom. It was unbelievable. It was a large room with a fireplace, a rocking chair, a puppet stage, hardwood floors. I mean, you know, I just thought, "Oh, I've died and gone to heaven. This is absolutely wonderful!" My principal, Mrs. Webster, Naomi Webster was a graduate of Towson and she was, again, a wonderful mentor. That second year I became a demonstration teacher. In Baltimore City this meant that early childhood teachers would come to observe you teach, and then following the observation there would be a discussion about the lesson. So, I was an observation teacher for Baltimore City teachers and also for pediatric nurses from Union Memorial Hospital. They would come over and observe the interactions that I had with the children and we would talk about their relationship with children. K.B.: Isn't that something! F.B.: It was just wonderful. It was a wonderful experience. And then, following that, in late 1957, I had my first son, William. K.B.: Did you get married right out of college? F.B.: Yes, right out. Graduated in June. Married in August. That was the norm. It was almost like you meet a man in your first year, go steady the second year, become engaged your third year then get married. That was the thing to do. K.B.: So after two years. . . F.B.: My son was born and then I stayed home with him, but during that time, Towson was initiating a master's program. So I thought, well, this is what I'll do, I'll busy myself, get my master's. And I was in that first class of people studying for their master's. And I got my master's in elementary ed. and psychology. And worked with some wonderful, wonderful people at that time. As you know, there were eight graduates of that master's class: the first graduating class in 1960. And because my name began with a "B", I was the first one to walk across the stage. So I was given the title of the First Graduate of the Master's Program in Education. A few years ago, Towson celebrated the fifty year anniversary of that event. I was very fortunate to be asked to speak at that event. It was wonderful to go back and reminisce about those years in the graduate program. And of course, my children and my grandchildren became very much tuned into this. I like to tell the story of one of my grandsons who wrote an essay (He must have been about 9 or 10) about his grandmother, who was the first graduate of Towson. And the teacher said, "I don't think so, Michael. I think that your grandmother's not that old." And he said, "yes, yes here's a picture." And then he brought in a picture of [me] and then there was no more discussion and I don't know if she realized that I was not the first graduate. From the picture she wasn't sure whether she could make that distinction with that. K.B.: But it was no longer an issue, however it was resolved. F.B.: No. I sometimes laugh because I think, that's my claim to fame: first graduate of Towson University. Not really. K.B.: Not quite. No I don't think so. So you stayed home and got your master's degree. F.B.: And then I went back to Brehms Lane and taught second grade. It was very convenient of course, my mother living right across the street from the school. So she took care of Bill. I would even run home, because I had some lunch time and I'd run home to see Bill. It was a wonderful arrangement to have then. But then in 1962, in the summer of '62, I received a phone call from Maude Broyles, who was in the education department and she asked if I would like to interview for a position in the Lida Lee Tall School. And I call that my dream phone call. You know, to be invited back on campus where you had these wonderful experiences, to work with children in kindergarten there. So I came to the interview in my hat and my gloves in the heat of the summer. In my suit, I met with the faculty of Lida Lee Tall along with some education faculty and I was offered a position and it was a part-time position in the morning, teaching kindergarten. I just jumped at the opportunity. Again, most of the children were children of faculty members, but it was a wonderful program because of the principal, Genevieve Heagney. She was so brilliant and so soft-spoken and such a mentor to me. She was the one who encouraged me to go on to get further education. She was a graduate of Teachers College, Columbia. Her faculty meetings were like a college course. I learned so much from her. The other kindergarten teacher at the time was Alice Holden, who became a very close friend and a colleague to me. We had wonderful experiences in that kindergarten. K.B.: Now, kindergarten was half a day. Was it required at that point? F.B.: No, it was not required, and as I said, I don't think kindergarten came into the requirement stage until probably in the 60's. So it was an innovative program. It was what, I believe, how young children learn: through play, through experiences, through conversation, through literacy, through books. That was all the ways that we taught. The second year that I was there, though, I received a visit. I can't remember who it was, but I remember he came to the classroom and invited me to teach kindergarten in the morning and then to supervise student teachers, early childhood student teachers in the afternoon. And I would be supervising primarily in the Baltimore City schools because I would be primarily supervising kindergarten, first and second grades. So, again, there was this wonderful opportunity just dropped right into my lap and I was very pleased. I did this for, I guess, about four years or five years. One year stands out in my mind. That year there was a preponderance of boys that had enrolled in the kindergarten. They weren't quite sure how they were going to separate the children into these two kindergarten classes. So they decided maybe that one class should be all boys and the other class the mixed group. And they asked me if I would be willing to take the all boy group and I said yes, I would. It was a fascinating year and we did some research, some studies on gearing our curriculum to how young boys learn. And at that time, there was a lot of construction going on on campus. It was perfect to bring the boys up to see the construction, to go back and to write about it and to read about it. We found that on the readiness test that year, the boys excelled in their test scores because the curriculum was very much focused to their needs and to their interests. It was an outstanding year for me. K.B.: Did you just have Bill at that point? F.B.: No, I had, let's see . . . I guess I had three children at that point. All boys. I was using skills both at home and in the classroom dealing with the boys. Again, my own sons would come over to Lida Lee Tall. By that point, we had moved to the wonderful new building. My own boys would come over to Lida Lee Tall on Saturday or Sunday if I was working there. Lida Lee Tall had a ramp that went from the top to the bottom. The bottom was the kindergarten. They had wonderful experiences there. And as I said, they attended Lida Lee Tall in the summer. James, my youngest son, attended in the regular school year too. K.B.: So here we are. We're at the point now where you're doing half-day kindergarten and you're supervising student teachers. How was that experience- the supervision piece? F.B.: It was very good. And you know, I still supervise students in the classroom. I love that. I love doing that because it gives me, I think, the best of two worlds. I get to see the children in action and then I get to see the students interacting with them. I sit in the back of the room and you can see everything that should be going on. But if you're there in the moment, it's a little more difficult to teach that. But I enjoy doing it. I enjoy being with the students, being with the adults and to be with children. So I thought that was a wonderful opportunity for me. But then, I was invited to come into the education department full time. With that, I taught graduate and undergraduate courses. And later, became chairperson of the early childhood department and spent one year in the student teaching office. That was called the Center for Applied Skills in Education at that time. And then, fourteen years as Associate Dean in the College of Education with Dr. Binko. And Jim Binko and I, again, he was absolutely wonderful to work with. I believe we really complemented one another in our skills. It was, again, a wonderful time in my life to do this. K.B.: When you were chair, so now you've made this shift to completely higher ed, although you're still certainly connected with public education, what's preK-12 now? Or at least PreK-three, which I guess is what early childhood was at the time. What were you involved in as chair of early childhood? I know this is an area and an age level that you have worked with over time. How was that department evolving in preparation for folks that wanted to work with children of that age while you were chair? F.B.: Yes. It was evolving. One of the initiatives that we did was that we invited a faculty member in the early childhood department to spend a year teaching in Lida Lee Tall to make that exchange. So that allowed a Lida Lee Tall faculty member to come up and be a member of the department and the department member would go down there. (So that they didn't lose their connection with children and actually be in the classroom.) So, that was one of the things we did. We were very tuned into what was happening in terms of curriculum for young children. And by that time, kindergarten was becoming more universal across the globe and also in Maryland. So we were having more teachers to prepare because they were having more opportunities to go out there and to teach young children. So this made a difference too in our numbers. I remember one year, I probably am the only person on this campus who remembers this, but Middle States came to do an accreditation for us. In their exit interview, they cited early childhood education as an exemplary program. A small program, but an exemplary program and one that other departments should look at in terms of its management. Well, again, as I said, probably no one else remembers that. But I remember that and I remember seeing it in the report and it was a big deal, you know. I must say that the faculty of the early childhood department were wonderful, outstanding, dedicated people. I can remember every one of them with their strengths. We had literacy days. We had children's literature days. We put on an early childhood conference that brought in people from all over the state. We had leading speakers at these conferences: David Elkin, T. Berry Brazelton. We did things that I think were innovative, daring in a small department, but because people worked together and just felt so good about accomplishing these things, we were able to accomplish them. It was, again, a wonderful time in my life. K.B.: You certainly sound that you've had a number of those. Opportunities have just sort of presented themselves. F.B.: Yes, sometimes I think I was in the right place at the right time or whatever, in terms of this. And then, every opportunity was kind of a step. Although, sometimes, as I've thought about this, and I've given lots of speeches on early childhood education and parenting, and I often say, through the years, I started out in kindergarten and went to chairperson of the department and then associate dean. But I'm not sure if that career ladder went up or down. Because that experience there with the five year olds was the one that brought it all together and was the most exciting. I'm not sure I could have gone any higher than that. K.B.: Very nice. But you did move on to the Associate Dean position. Tell us a little bit about what that entailed and how you remained to some extent you remained connected with teacher education whether that was being responsible for accreditation, or curriculum development or whatever. F.B.: And I still continued to teach at least one or two courses, so I didn’t lose that contact with the students. And I was involved in accreditation and articulation with the community colleges. That was a big initiative of mine to go out to the community colleges and make articulation agreements where the community college graduates could come into the early childhood department and it would be a seamless transition. So, that was something that I worked on. I worked on some independent study courses for the first time. There were a couple of courses that I developed that were independent study and we did kind of a pilot for that and they were very successful. I worked with the Maryland State Department of Education in coordinating the education programs with the deans and directors from colleges across the state. And, there were always issues, of course, that came up in terms of teacher education, or early childhood education and I was the representative from the Education Department to meet with the deans and directors and the Department of Education to discuss these and to make some real inroads into the teacher education programs and what they should look like and how they would best suit people with that. So, there were lots of things going on. Another thing that I worked on was connecting with alumni at that time. And we developed in the, I want to say in the College of Education, but I’m not sure if we were a college at that point, but we worked with forming a council of alumni. And we met regularly with them and we had some wonderful prestigious alumni on that committee. I put together an alumni bulletin called the Update and we would tell about the Education Department, and this went out to lots of alumni from education of course. We wanted that connection, we wanted the feedback from alumni. And then I also worked on surveys for our graduates so they could tell us, one year out, three years out, five years out, what did we do well, what did we need to do and such. So I did a lot of work on surveys and with our graduates. K.B.: Do you remember what their response was in sort of broad strokes. F.B.: Yes I do. I was thinking about this when I was thinking about teacher education. Very often the teacher education students will have a course during their preparation time, but it doesn’t really gel until they are out in the classroom. And you know, an example of this is classroom management, cause invariably, 80% of, I can remember 80% of the questionnaires say we need a course in classroom management. Often times, in fact, a couple of years I taught a course in classroom management and I’d say, “Oh, where were you, I was teaching this?” But, it doesn’t gel until they get out there and face that on a day to day basis and make an indifference from that. K.B.: And, I think that possibly was, in some part, because classrooms are fairly well established by the time student teachers come in to do their thing. So, they haven’t actually been the person whose done all that groundwork in getting the class set up and classroom procedure defined and so. But, it is funny that they wouldn’t understand its relevance at that point. F.B.: Yes, it’s when they step into the classroom, that’s when they’re going to have to manage it on their own that they begin to realize—What was it? What did they say? and such. But the questionnaire was very helpful, and of course, I think that was required by NCATE at that time. So, we followed through on that. K.B.: Very interesting. As you look back at your work at Towson as the Associate Dean and before that, you were taking away an enormous understanding of teacher education, and we’ll talk a little bit later about where you went after the Associate Dean position, because you certainly didn’t stand still for an absolute nanosecond. But sort of reflecting back at that part of your professional life, what were you seeing as critical elements in teacher education? You’d been a chair, you’d done an accreditation, you did the surveys. If you were to sort of reflect back on essential elements for a teacher preparation, what are, and I don’t want you to belabor this, but what was your sense, your ah ha, your well considered thoughts about that? F.B.: Well, I think on reflecting on this, I believe that not everyone who wants to be a teacher should be a teacher. I think that there’s a wide gap between the ideal of teaching and the realities of a classroom. It may sound that this is glamorous, whatever, and teaching is like no other profession. Because, as a teacher, you have so many roles that you play—you impart information, you’re a disciplinarian, you’re a communicator, you’re an arbitrator, you’re a role model, you’re a team member, and sometime you’re a surrogate parent. These are a lot of roles and how does a teacher preparation program then prepare someone for all these roles. I believe they can do this in several ways. They provide the skill, they provide the knowledge, they provide help with the disposition, and they also provide lots of clinical experiences. Because I find that the clinical experiences sometimes then has the person make that distinction between the ideal and the real. And so they almost self select. You know, they’re in the classroom, and they say, “This is not for me.” And that’s the best kind of selection we can have. Because it’s very difficult, and there were times as Associate Dean when I felt that this student was not cut out to be a teacher. They were wonderful persons, they would have made beautiful music or whatever, but it was just not there for teaching. And I had to have them decide this on their own, so I guided them through clinical experiences and other ways. But, I think the teacher education programs can lay the foundation for all of this—the knowledge, the skills, the clinician part of it. And that foundation has to be strong; it has to be well grounded. But it’s not until the student goes into the classroom, with that strong foundation, that they’re able to take this to the next level of competency in being a teacher. They build on that. Teacher education programs, no matter how complete they may be, how thorough they may be, can’t do it all. We can give them the foundation, a strong foundation, we can help them to build on that, but it’s when you’re in the classroom that the reality sets in. You know, sometimes I guess as I sit and look at students, I judge their competency on the answer to one question, and that is “Would I want this teacher teaching my grandchildren?” And, that’s kind of the measure, you know, for, “Is this going to be a person who’s going to make it in terms of this world.” Teaching is very different today than it was fifty years ago and we have to prepare our students for these differences in the culture, in the realm of working with parents and all of these things. We can’t do it all, but we can have a good basis for the foundation so that when they go out they do feel confident that they can achieve these things. K.B.: And certainly continue to build on those things professionally. You can’t be perfectly informed without being in the classroom and having that experience, as you said. F.B.: And I remember again, when I was Associate Dean, we did have what I would call a first year program, where students who were first year teachers would be contacted and asked, “How’s this year going? What can we do to help you?” We had them on campus often during their first year. Many times, and I think the school systems are doing a better job of this now in terms of working with new teachers, but there were times when the new teachers were given the least satisfactory positions. So, we invited them on campus during their first year, we’d talk with them, we followed up with them, and I, again, thought this was a wonderful program that would help them to become successful or to continue their success in the classroom. K.B.: Well, I think now in-service professional development has become a big piece of that follow up. F.B.: Yes, I think people recognize this. You can’t just take a first year teacher and have them on their own. We’d look at the statistics of the teacher retention and it was very poor, and I think people realized we weren’t doing enough to ensure their success in order to keep them in the classroom. K.B.: One thing that is sort of happening concurrently, and very much a part of your professional development and career, is that you were working on a doctorate. So, at some point in your life you made a commitment to start that process. When did you start that work? When you were chair or when you were a faculty member? F.B.: I believe I was a chair when I decided to do that. And there were a couple of things that lead me to that. One was, I guess, the realization that if I wanted to stay in academics, I needed to go on. And there were, as I said, wonderful mentors in my life that encouraged me to do this. I had some doubts about this because of the children, and working. I went through a couple of years where my husband was very ill and so we had that to deal with. But, again, my mother was absolutely wonderful during that time. Because I couldn’t travel to Columbia University, that would have been ideal, I went to the University of Maryland at College Park. Although many people from Baltimore County that I knew were taking programs in leadership or administration, I chose a program in human development because I was interested, again, in the development of young children. And so I entered the doctoral program there. It took me, I say with some chagrin, almost seven years to get this doctorate. And that was commuting one night a week to College Park, taking two courses, coming home, with four children, and working fulltime. So, it took me a long time but it finally got finished. And as I said, I felt that it did not play any havoc on my children because they saw me staying up studying and I had to do my homework and such. But, there were many, many nights where I pulled all-nighters to prepare for my coursework. And I did my dissertation on self esteem and I used the children . . . well actually the subjects were the children from Lida Lee Tall. We did a study on self esteem, and at that time it was just fun to do and a very effective program. K.B.: So, what did your results tell us? F.B.: You know, it’s interesting because I have always felt that children need to have positive reinforcement. They need to be told “You did a good job.” And this was part of the study. There are many children who can’t recognize that they did a good job. You know they get a spelling test back and they say, “I got six wrong,” but they don’t say, “I got fifteen right.” They had to recognize and so we worked with them to help them recognize that they had lots of good qualities to say. Over the years I think that we see where we need to careful at the amount of reinforcement we give, the positive reinforcement, not to give it just because it’s said, but it needs to be said and needs to have a connection there with the activity that the child has done and the reinforcement that’s given. K.B.: A bit of reality in there too. You don’t always win. F.B.: But so often I cringe when I hear, and I hear this in public, and I am not confining this to a specific situation, but sometimes you hear it in the grocery store, or on the street, or in another store, where a parent is belittling a child. You know, “That was stupid. Look what you’re doing to sister,” or whatever. You wonder if that parent is doing that kind of interaction there in public with people around, then what might they be doing in their own home for this child. And people and children begin to form a picture of themselves from what others tell them. You know if you’re told you’re stupid, you’re ugly, you can’t do anything right, this is a picture that you begin to form of yourself. And you know these things must be true--my mother’s telling me this or my father’s telling me this. So, we need to be careful of that. I’ve done a lot of work with parents because I think [that], again, in early childhood, it all begins at home. There are so many things in the home that happen, way before the child ever enters kindergarten, and these are the things we need parents to focus on: how they deal with their children, the kind of responses they give, the kind of language that they use, the kind of vocabulary they build. And so I’ve done a lot of work with parents on this. Not chiding them, but encouraging them. It’s hard to be a parent. There’s lots going on in the parent’s lives and, again, I’ve been there and I’ve seen the work and the job, the coming home and the homework and such. So parents need all the support that they can [get] and I was fortunate that I had that support, but there are many parents who don’t have that support. It’s important for parents and sometimes when we look at a child in a classroom, this is something that teachers have to do. Think about this child coming to school without breakfast or think about this child coming to school maybe having had a very bad morning before they ever get to the classroom. Think about that as their behavior. K.B.: One of the things that you started to do, and I believe this was when you were Associate Dean, but correct me if I’m wrong, was working with Maryland Public Television? F.B.: It was Baltimore County Public Schools. Again, this was such a wonderful experience. Baltimore County Public Schools began an educational channel when I was Associate Dean. And I thought about this educational channel and thought, “How wonderful to get to parents through this channel that would provide an opportunity then for parents to get some parenting skills prior to their children entering school. And so I wrote a proposal for Baltimore County and they invited me to come in and speak to the superintendent. I sat around the table, again, in the hot summer and I could just feel the perspiration coming down as I told them my idea and I was such a novice to this. I said, “Children will be better prepared if we get to parents prior to their coming into the classrooms.” They thought it was a good idea and they said, “Well that sounds fine. Who would do it?” And, without a moment hesitation, I don’t know why, I said, “I’ll do it. I mean I can do it.” And, so it was called First Steps, First Steps were initiated and I worked with just two other people and they assured me that that was the way Barbara Walters started but I didn’t believe that at all. But, I carried the equipment, we were at schools, we were in the middle of the Science Center, wherever. But the purpose of the program was to help parents to develop skills, to develop ideas about parenting in a non-threatening way. I had teachers and I had principals on the program. We did 32 half-hour programs. The programs were then picked up through a national communications program and they were marketed across the country. They marketed and sold a number of those videos. If you go on the website, it’s interesting, they’re still there, First Steps, 32 of them. The topics were helping children get through divorce, the importance of reading to your child, literacy, self esteem. So we chose 32 topics and I wrote them and worked with Lou Wehage from Baltimore County Public Schools and then we had two camera people who went out with us. But we did that and they’re still out there. And, most recently, Baltimore County Public Schools wanted to initiate another program for parents and I was all excited. I thought it was going to be a revision of First Steps. It is not. It is more of a “talking head” program, but we are doing topics that are of interest to Baltimore County parents. We’ve done three programs—one on assessment, one on summer activities. I produce it and co-host it, write it and get the guests and whatever. So, as soon as they get the new studio going in Baltimore County, we’ll be doing more of the programs for that. But, I just feel it is so important that parents have all of the help that they can in working with their children. Parenting begins at birth, in those early years. I’m so happy that in my lifetime I have seen that people began to recognize the importance of the early years. Because I can remember when I first began teaching and told people that I was going to be or that I was a kindergarten teacher, and they said, “Oh, well you don’t have to do anything, the kids play all day, don’t they?” That was the extent of what kindergarten teachers do. And now we realize that the first four years of life are so important and the learning that occurs during that time, it’s amazing. And as I said I’m so pleased in my lifetime that people have begun to accept that and embrace that. K.B.: Real important. Well, you departed Towson University and the position of Associate Dean, and what happened next? F.B.: Well, I really wasn’t considering leaving Towson, but I had been at Towson for 32 years, starting with my days at Lida Lee Tall and they went by so quickly. As I look back, it’s like a blink of an eye in terms of where did those 32 years go. At that time in my life, Towson had a program called the Peace Corps Fellows Program. This was a program that was actually with the Peace Corps in Washington, Towson, and Baltimore City Public Schools. The program allowed returning Peace Corps volunteers to come to an underserved area, such as Baltimore City Public Schools, work in that area and then get a master’s degree with tuition reimbursement, through the Peace Corps, while they were doing this. And this national program of the Peace Corps was in Boston, New York, San Antonio, California, Georgia, it was all over the country. There were about eight programs when we began. And the person who was the director of the program in Washington would come to Towson to observe the program and I would be his host and show him what was going on and such. And one day he came and said, “There’s going to be a position open in the Peace Corps Program in Washington as Associate Director of this program.” He was the director, and again, I absolutely loved him. He was just wonderful to work with, Henry Fernandez. And he said, “How about applying for that job?” and I said, “I don’t think so, I’ve been here so long.” He said, “Oh . . .” He really did paint this wonderful picture of Washington and the Peace Corps and I said, “Okay, I’ll do it.” At that time my children were adults and I thought I could commute to Washington everyday on the Marc train. And I did that for about a year and a half, and then I said, “Forget this, I’ll live there.” Living in Washington was very exciting. I took the job as Associate Director of the Peace Corps Fellows Program. And we expanded the program during that time and it involved not only education in underserved areas but health, because Johns Hopkins had a fellows program, and also business. We had a program at Pace University in New York and that had the business part of it. But we expanded the program from seven universities to something like 17 universities. And it’s interesting because I’ve always been enamored, I guess, because of Genevieve Heagney, of Teachers College Columbia, and they had a fellows program. And so, I was hanging out at Teachers College Columbia frequently and the person who was in charge of that program was just wonderful to work with. When Henry Fernandez left, I was appointed to Director of the program. Because of my teacher education background, Mark Gearan, who was the Director of the Peace Corps, was in the communication office, had been in the communication office with President Clinton, and he invited me to do training overseas. He said, “How would you like to go overseas and do cross-cultural training for the volunteers overseas?” And I said, “I’d love to go.” So, I went to places like Nepal and Kazakstan, and Tashkent, and Romania and other places, and would go in for a short period of time. And this was the time when the volunteers were getting their initial training. I would go in and do a couple days of cross-cultural training. I lived close by, but I didn’t live in the houses with the people, although I always had a volunteer as an escort. They were very, very insistent that I not travel on my own because they were concerned about safety. And so I went in and did the training for them and that was a wonderful experience. I remember one time when I was in Nepal and I had this young man, who was to be my escort, but I wanted to do some shopping before I left. There was a little market right down from the little hotel where I stayed. And so I went down by myself and shopped and the Director of Nepal found out that I did this on my own and I remember he said to me, “The last thing I want to do is to tell Peace Corps that something happened to you.” And I answered and said, “Nope, the last thing you want to do is call my mother and tell her something happened to me. She would be furious with you.” They were wonderful experiences. I loved Nepal; it was absolutely wonderful. K.B.: What an experience. F.B.: And the Peace Corps volunteers were just so gracious and they’re such nice, nice people and just so dedicated. It was just wonderful to be around them and to see the work they’re doing. And they insisted that I go out with them out into the field to meet some of the people. So, I had that opportunity to get out there and to actually meet the people. You know I was just a plain old person, really. “But here’s somebody from Washington.” You know that name in itself. I thought, “Wow! This sounds good, I’ll take advantage of this.” But Peace Corps has a time limit, unfortunately, on positions in D.C. There’s a five year limit. K.B.: I didn’t know that. F.B.: And as my time was coming to a close, Director Mark Gearan said to me one day, “Now, what are you going to be doing?” And I said, “Oh, I’m going to go back to Baltimore.” He said, “No, no, no, you can’t go back to Baltimore, you have to stay here in Washington.” And he said, “What if I got you a job in the Department of Education.” And I said, “You’re kidding.” He said, “No, I think I can get you a presidential appointment in the Department of Ed.” And I was just like, “Oh my golly, here it is again, Fran.” You know, I mean, could anything get better. And so he did get me the appointment and I worked for Secretary Riley. And I think, “Oh, that was the best job I ever had, no this is the best job I ever had. Working for Secretary Riley was a fantastic job. K.B.: And you were involved in? F.B.: America Reads, which took work study students and placed them as part of their work responsibility in schools as tutors. But, then, the best part of the job was—Secretary Riley was very, very interested in universal pre-kindergarten. And so, he said, “Okay, you need to go around the country talking this up—to superintendents, to parents, to school board people about how great pre-school is.” And I said, “Ah, that’s my cup of tea.” And so, I did. But the thing that surprised me was—you know I had such enthusiasm for this and so did Secretary Riley--but the thing that surprised me was that it was not 100 percent accepted. There were different views on this. Some people felt that we shouldn’t begin schooling at that early an age. Some people felt that we were taking children away from their parents. So, not everybody jumped on the universal pre-kindergarten bandwagon. And, as you know, it took years before that concept even caught on. But it was wonderful promoting it and having his blessing, you know, in promoting this. It was wonderful to work on that project. Unfortunately, when the administration changed, I had to then leave the administration. Leave the Department of Ed. And another job came into my lap after that and that was with the PBS Ready to Learn. PBS in Alexandria had just received a grant from the State Department of Education to have children’s programs work closely with education and learning. And Ready to Learn grants then came into existence and I got a job working with producers on content, working with the website and doing professional development for programs around the country to help people in the local stations learn how to promote their programs and how to do Ready to Learn. And I think of all the jobs I ever had, this job with Ready to Learn and working with Clifford and Mr. Rogers and Elmo, in the eyes of my grandchildren, was the best job I could ever have. “My grandmother works with Clifford, she knows Clifford.” So that put me up a level. I guess looking back over the past 57 years, I know that choosing education as a career path was the best choice I ever made. And it took me to many adventures, from the classroom to Nepal, and all over the world. But, as I said before, I look at the kindergarten and say that’s where it all began. And to this day, as I sit in the classroom and observe students teaching, I get a smile on my face when I’m in that kindergarten class and see them teaching young children. And I think, you know, in education, we really can make a difference in lives of children, and youth and adults. And so, this is the best career that somebody could choose. K.B.: Thank you, Fran. F.B.: You’re welcome, thank you.