Interview with Dr. Jacqueline (Jaky) Banks

Moore, Azariah: Okay. Moore, Azariah: okay, how was that looking online is looking good. It's looking up high. So I'm not looking down at my camera. It's like, I level. Now, it looks like, yes, I'm like, okay. Moore, Azariah: hmm. iPhone: it's it's the glare. But it's still fine.

Moore, Azariah: It's it's the the glass is. Okay. Then, okay, okay, we're gonna go ahead and get started. Then. I'm going to introduce myself really quickly. I know we've talked, but my name is Azariah Moore. I'm a rising senior at Towson, majoring in international studies with a double minor in Political science and Japanese. And I'm one of the student researchers for the unearthing towson's history project and yeah so Moore, Azariah: I was researching in the seventies. But, like, you know, black black students and faculty in the seventies. And that's kind of how I started researching you and your impact at Towson. So I'm really excited to interview you today. Yeah. iPhone: Okay. Am I supposed to introduce myself now? Moore, Azariah: you can if you want to, but you don't have to. iPhone: Well, I'm just gonna say you know my names. This is Dr. Jacqueline Eleanor and I came to a in 1973

iPhone: and I'll just leave it right there. So when I got to Towson it was very. I thought it was a whole bunch of us, but I've since learned it was a very small number of us, but you know it's our relative. And I guess we'll get into that. Moore, Azariah: Okay, so I have 14 questions. So I'm gonna go ahead and get started with them. The first set of questions are gonna be about like what led up to you attending Towson. So my first question is, what influenced you to apply for the Campbell Soup scholarship that led to you attending Towson State College? iPhone: Oh, my! Well, thank you for that easy question. iPhone: My my mother. I worked at Campbell Soup Company and even, you know that's basically how she kept a roof over her head and put food on on the table after my my dad passed when I was 14, and she was left to raise 6 children

iPhone: on on her own, and I'll never forget how how she just kept imploring me to complete the scholarship application. iPhone: And and finally I did. And I typed it up. All nice and neat on this, you know back then we just had typewriter. So if you made a mistake, it was like agony and trying to make a correction. And so I typed it up, and I never forget how the day she took it into Campbell Soup to work, she wrapped it in some cellophane papers, so you know so gingerly and so carefully, and I just never forgot that. And iPhone: and I just left it there. It was And I had applied to attend Nursing School, and it's it's called Gibbs Nursing school in Eastern Maryland at the hospital in Eastern because they had a registered nursing program there. My parents had always, their aspiration for me was to be a registered nurse. iPhone: Yeah. So that's why he had started that route. And so when I had applied, I'd been accepted at the Nurses School in Eastern, and I went there, and I was told I was the first black that ever accepted into the nursing school. And and I also remember driving home that day and asking my mother, How are we going to pay for this. How are we going to pay for this? And a mother's response was this all in the bag? All you have to do is shake it. I thought

iPhone: you can shake it all you want, there's not any money in there. But of course I'm thinking that I wouldn't dare say that. iPhone: But so that's where I thought I was headed, and until notification came. that I had indeed, I was one of, I think, with 16 people, it was a National Scholarship. It was a national competition. That was one of the 12 or 16 at that time that had been iPhone: awarded the scholarship. And so that's what got me to Towson on hat route of thinking that nursing school, but now a 4 year institution and I do come from a family of college, educated people. So when the college I was definitely not the first in my family, let me just put that out there. But iPhone: so after the scholarship, my mother asked. Basically the her management plant manager at Campbell Soup company at that time. You know. What was the recommendation And he suggested Towson State College because they have a great nursing program, and that's really is to to to State college was, you know, my mother's the recommendation from the Plant Manager at Campbell Soup Company. my mother had, was the one who really pushed me to apply for that.

iPhone: And you know that was very active. So it wasn't. You know I had to grades, you know. I had a very, you know, long, long list of things I was involved in community in my church so, and so you know, I was one of 12 of because I was the first in my area. And I'm over Peninsula to win one. It was a really big thing back home at that time, and so But you know, I take all things in stride. iPhone: you know. Okay, next is Towson. So I don't know what that means. I'm just going to go to Towson State college. That's all I'm doing. Moore, Azariah: That kind of leads me into my next question. which is, did Towson State College have a reputation about about that you knew about before attending? Sorry iPhone: I never even heard of.

iPhone: We just went in to say that I'm a country girl. Let me put that into perspective, and that is not a reflection on Towson university at all. iPhone: I just learned last year this recently that I come from a small town, and when I came to Towson in my mind I thought I came from a town of 4 to 6,000 people. iPhone: and I have since learned that I came up from a town at the time of 200 people, you know, quite a difference in the perception and the reality. So I'll come from a small town, and iPhone: so I know I never heard of Towson. I don't. I don't think I really heard of hardly any universities, I mean, I Salisbury State, was down the road. Maryland State College was down the road. I lived in between those 2 universities, and I'd heard of some of my of of

iPhone: family members had attended HBCU colleges, universities. I knew, I'd heard of Morgan, I'd heard of Bowie but I don't think I'd of... My principal went up out and encouraged me, he wanted me to to go to Hampton Institute, actually. And I'm gonna tell you this, if I was much into my family legacy then, if I am now. I might have ended up in Hampton. iPhone: Okay, because my grandfather went there for 3 years. You know, my mother went to Temple. You know I had Howard grads in the family, but I didn't know any of those things, not really. But no iPhone: Towson was all about. It had a nursing program, and that's where I was going. I knew not nothing about this reputation. I knew nothing about the population, the numbers I knew none of those things I was going to Towson State college, whatever that was. I was going. iPhone: So yeah.

iPhone: I like people that made a more of a concentrated and a studied choice. Moore, Azariah: Yeah, I get it though, especially if they're paying, you know mine as well iPhone: Yeah. Well, and that they let me just put it in an in perspective. The scholarship that I had at that time was, I think it was like $6,000, $1,500 a year, which completely paid for my education. iPhone: Okay, I didn't have, unlike other students, I didn't have any financial problems. when I was a student, I created my own, you know, as a young adult making unwise choices. But I didn't really have to worry about how I was going to pay for college. as an undergrad student, Moore, Azariah: yeah, no that's really nice. Moore, Azariah: okay. So my next question is, from what years did you attend Towson State College? I know it's kind of foggy

Moore, Azariah: for me. When I was doing my research I couldn't find like a definitive date I was. Moore, Azariah: I was really struggling. So I was like, let me ask her, yeah, I was. I don't know if it was the materials I was going through, but I was. I couldn't, because I know. I heard that you transferred, and I just couldn't figure out what year you transferred. That's what I was. iPhone: Oh, okay, well, it did get real fuzzy at the end. So this kind of interesting that my history trail actually does a show that it shows a very iPhone: struggling time in my life. And so it's kind of interesting that it reflects that. But I came in the fall of of 1973 I graduated high school, changed a bit of high school in 1973, and immediately did the traditional college thing, and I, and and landed at at a at Towson, and I started, as I said, as a pre nursing major. They just didn't allow you to be a nursing major. You had to prove yourself iPhone: When I came to Towson I'm going to tell you, I just got really interested to the cultural life. U was a country girl.

iPhone: very, very rural, very, very rural background. And so I mean, Towson was urban iPhone: and so it it was all new and wonder and wondering to me. Wonderment it to me. So 73. iPhone: I walked the stage. And iPhone: 1977, because I was within a semester of finishing my credits at Towson and back then they allowed you to participate in the graduation

iPhone: exercises. If you were within, I think, 18 or 21 credits iPhone: of of of your degree, with something that you could finish within the scene of the summer, or within a semester. They they they had some sort of thing. So I walked. iPhone: and somewhere in my stuff, which I was trying to find is the actual to give you a a participation of a little certificate or something, and if you walk to stage, you didn't get to. iPhone: you just got that.

and so then I but I never finished. iPhone: I tried to come back. iPhone: and I kind of got off track. iPhone: I around the age of 22 around. This time I I discovered that

iPhone: the the man that had raised me my dad was not my DNA dad. And when you discover that you now who you think you are, it really iPhone: sent me into a a tumble? iPhone: And I lost a sense of my identity, and knowing, you know, I've always been pretty confident about who I am in that sense of my roots, and and so it kind of sent me into a tail spin. I really got off track. So I took a course here and a course there, and eventually, I think, by 1978, iPhone: or 79. I I just I just gave up. I couldn't get it together. I just I don't know how to say it's always have a big heart for people who are who stumble in life, you know. And but

iPhone: you get back, up, you get back up. So so that's why it's not definitive, because I should have if I had been the nice academic student scholar that I should have been to me. I enjoy my time and talks, and that's let me just say that, academically and socially and culturally that. Maybe I would have. But I did have a live on a a major life event that kinda iPhone: put mw sideways for for a minute, but it's it's turned out to be something quite positive over the over the long run, and but at this I didn't transfer per say, I just quit. and then I iPhone: for a minute, and I moved to to Tulsa, Oklahoma for a couple of years, and then I moved back to Maryland, and I came back to Maryland and became a mother. That's when I decided that I needed to finish iPhone: what I had started at at Towson, and so to do that I went back to school and Salisbury University, which is, as I stated earlier. It was right down the road from me, you know, and there at Salisbury University I completed not only my my bachelor's degree in communication, but also my, my first master's degree in in business administration, and my doing that I was the first black to to get my Mba.

iPhone: From Salisbury University. So that's why it's it does get real shaky from 75 to 77, then 79. There, you know, I kept stopping. And the starting, So what? You? Why, so that's why you were not able to really PIN it down. Because I was like this iPhone: even in life. So. But it it it it eventually leveled out. Moore, Azariah: What year did you get your Mba in Salisbury? iPhone: it was 1985 Moore, Azariah: hmm, and you were the first Black person to do that there?

iPhone: I was. Yeah, they had when I was finishing up my at the State of Maryland. iPhone: Hmm, oh, you know university is required even in the even as a transfer student to Salisbury University. I had to do at least 30 credits there iPhone: in order to get my degree, so I had to do a full 30 credits, and I didn't matter how many I needed. I had to do a full 30 credits and they did accept all of my credits, basically from from Towson university, so I don't know how many undergrad credits I ended up with. But But while I was finishing up on the undergraduate degree, I iPhone: decided to take some business courses, I taking a couple of business courses at Towson, personnel management, I recall. And I really like that. And I've and I've taken a think one marketing class at at Towson, and I really like it, and and I do come from a family of of entrepreneurs.

iPhone: and I just decided I would take up some business classes as my minor while I was finishing up. because I didn't need a many iPhone: major credits for things like that. I had so much from Towson, so I had some space there, so I took up. I took home a a minor in business. So I, finishing up my undergrad degree of Salisbury University, and then I loved it so much. And that time they were starting the Mba program. iPhone: And as So then I went to my as a graduate student and my first graduate assistantship was in the business department and the graduate office for the business school as they were developing the program, and and they started it. iPhone: And I just like to business. I found in my mind. I felt that I discovered what makes America works. I said, oh, mg, I mean, I actually was going fascinated with business courses. And you know the counting and the marketing and economics. And so

iPhone: I just so I take my undergraduate degree from Salisbury. I think it's 1982, iPhone: and my Mba is 1985. I finished that December. But I didn't complete the graduation timeline paperwork so officially on paper, it's gonna say, may 1985. And and they didn't have mid year graduations Then I don't think, anyway. So that's when I I I that yeah. iPhone: 1985. Moore, Azariah: Okay, so my next, what a set of questions are about the racial climate on campus at Towson. So just to get started. the first question is, how would you describe the racial climate of Towson during the time that you were there?

iPhone: You know I have. iPhone: I didn't say that racial makeup any attention. So let me explain why I I when I say I come from an in rural background. iPhone: what that also means is I come from a background when we are the minority population. iPhone: So I am used to being, you know, in in a setting where I am a minority, you know, and after the integrated schools in my county, actually, and and I was going to the fifth grade.

iPhone: This they segregated us academically as well, and I ended up being in the section, the top Academic section iPhone: where they were educating their best, their future leaders, and I was most of the time the only black person iPhone: in those academic courses the people that my neighborhood and I went to school with some elementary school, and and I was going to church with and my playmates, you know we rode to school together. Maybe if we, I would see them in general courses like gym, or if they were in the band, which also a very few black people they were allowed to elevate to me, and then the band and iPhone: but so coming to towson, and it being a predominantly a historically white institution was not even part of my conversation, because I was so used to that

iPhone: from the fifth grade on iPhone: so. and and I knew what they meant. And I I mean I I come to the Lower Eastern shore, and Maryland is a the Southern State. iPhone: you know we can never forget that. And and this is from Maryland is more akin to the deep South than it is to the Metropolitan side of of the State, which tends to try to be more northern. But it's still, Maryland is still a southern state. iPhone: okay. We are the South.

iPhone: And so with that you. It comes from understanding that you you expect Some degree of of of the the ugly head of racism, the show his head iPhone: all right. iPhone: so iPhone: unlike others, may have been shocked if something happened. I just kind of took it all in stride. I was more infatuated and more impressed with the young black men in particular, who were so civil rights activists

iPhone: and and to the Black student union. And you know I might talk about that later. But I was more impressed with them. So the racial climate It was something that I was already used to. iPhone: and I am never oh, I'm in, and I and I felt comfortable and and then racial, and in that, in the racial makeup and the climate, and iPhone: at Towson. that does not mean that. I did not. iPhone: It's only a couple of times make I had one professor, I mean, I just made my head in one time too many. But I I didn't like he he! Just never

iPhone: a he anyway. But other than that. iPhone: I I I it's the same way at Towson, and that I felt going through high school and middle school. You weren't trying to educate me. I just happened to be in the classes with the students who you were trying to educate. So it was not to me to take advantage of what was being what being taught. That was my responsibility, and I wasn't always good at that. After I left high school for a minute, took me a minute to Get back on track with the academics. iPhone: so iPhone: I guess, coming from an environment when you are used to being in the room.

iPhone: Hmm! But you also, not being seen. iPhone: and being seen at the same time because of who you are and what you bring to the table. But iPhone: no, no, I just like that one, Professor, you know, and I know we have some stuff going on with the little as I said, I have the iPhone: It was none of it was new to me.

iPhone: Not that was new to me. None of it. Moore, Azariah: Yeah, I really get that? Moore, Azariah: Okay? So the next question is through research in the archives. I saw that when you've this is kind of like similar to what I just asked. But when you first came to Towson. the percentage of non white students was just 8%. So with that factor, you know, it's being such a low population. How did that influence your experiences at Towson. iPhone: See?

iPhone: My response is probably going to be different from most people. Remember that I come this little teeny town of 200 people, and half black half white So about a hundred black people. So when I came to Towson and I just learned what the number was, like 200 black people on campus, do you know what that felt like for me? A lot of black people. iPhone: Okay. So I was iPhone: just overwhelmed and and just excited to be in the company of so many black people who were also in interested in and and and education and academics. And and I was excited. iPhone: I was excited. And you know, because that was new for me.

iPhone: that that was n43 for me coming from from such a small town. So when someone else is used to hundreds of thousands of people, and and every and and look like a excuse me, I'm a new number, and I'm thinking it's 200 iPhone: right. iPhone: So my response was a little bit different. Because I do. I do come from a very small town. iPhone: and and a very and very, very rural. And and even that impacts my life today that I I keep my my circle very small.

iPhone: very small still, you know. Too much largeness is too much. I keep you, you know, even today, my my circle of of social circle and friends and things is very small. So like I said, my reactions a little bit different, because theres a whole lot of us. Somebody coming Another area will go like theres None of us . We're drop in the bucket, and that's what we were. iPhone: and that's what we were. But I didn't. I didn't feel like that, because I come from a place where we were even smaller in number.You know what I mean. Moore, Azariah: So do you feel like the black community was like, tight knit. Even that small amount iPhone: we are just even today.

iPhone: Hmm, even today we formed relationships and connections iPhone: that exist today. We were very, very, very, very close. iPhone: I came in at 73, and I think the folks that came before us one or two years before said we were at that time the biggest, largest, notable, also influx of of black students that that that that came to towson State College at that time they would say it was a big uptake, just like that in 1973. iPhone: So of course, they would have that earlier perspective.

iPhone: I'm sorry. What? Besides, I was talking about? The tight knit, the the in the relationships you made. Moore, Azariah: Yeah, the people that you just still love to this day, we had. There was also iPhone: 3 Greek organizations. Okay, when I got to towson there was only one Black Creek organization on campus and that. and that was the iotas. Iota Phi Theta fraternity, and I was totally unfamiliar with fraternities, sororities in general sense, so definitely. I didn't know who the iotas were, but I but they left an impression iPhone: with me. So outside of that is black students. The Black student Union was very critical

iPhone: to how we posted and how we came together and connect it Moore, Azariah: on campus iPhone: along with iPhone: With that, I think I guess they must have one in the whole influx of black athletes as well, because all of a sudden they're looking up and basketball stars and dominating, you know they, you know black men, the football team, and and and I'm going to be very show my ignorance, even though I was quite a softball player. I didn't follow any of the other sports at towson and football and basketball. I was a cheerleader.

iPhone: Yeah. So I just follow those those 2 sports, you know. Very narrow, I admit it. iPhone: And but yeah, we very. very, very close even to this day. iPhone: Yeah. Moore, Azariah: You gotta find community.

Moore, Azariah: Okay? So my next question is, So when you chartered the Mu Mu chapter of Delta Sigma Theta sorority incorporated. It was the first black sorority on campus. You were just kind of talking about that. So did you receive any backlash for doing this, and then, did you feel supported in your decision by the Administration and the student government? iPhone: Let me start with the answering backebd first. Yes, we were encouraged and and invited by the President at that time iPhone: to come on campus. He welcomed us with open arms, and I I could think of Jim, and he just passed iPhone: the university president at that time, and we we we and we like a little little reception for us, and he was very happy that we were a a on campus.

iPhone: Let me just answer that part first so, and and and I even have a picture in my of a picture with the 7 of us, with the with the University president, where he invited us in, and, like I said it was, he was happy we were there to add to the, to the cultural life, and then to the student life of University College then. iPhone: and so on my end. Even though I come from a family of educated people. Let me just say that and iPhone: I still didn't know anything about fraternity or sororities. I knew nothing I think iPhone: my only exposure had been in church back home, and now and then I think there's a a teachers has a sorority, and every once a year, every other year they might come down to our church, and I guess they will travel around the different churches, and

iPhone: and they were, and I remember the colors were like a blue suit, and and white iPhone: top and and but that was my only exposure that to fraternities and sororities. iPhone: So iPhone: I was a cultural butterfly type person. I tell you I love the cultural life.

iPhone: So I had. So I I'd heard about the sorority coming. iPhone: and iPhone: it was the people, the some of my friends I was cheerleaders with. They were interested, they were excited, and they were like, apply. Apply some of the my friends that I had met through the black student Union, and and and they were all apply applying. iPhone: and some of the people, my class you know, and apply apply apply. Some of these people In some cases they. their mothers they had they had been deltas, so they were very for me with what it meant to be part of a sorority I had no clue. So after you know, 3, 4, as I said, okay. Now, I submitted my application, even though I didn't know what I was submitting it for up to come, being

iPhone: okay. Now, of course Delta, I chose well. Let me just say that. iPhone: and there was several girls that apply, you know, I think, over 30, some. And they selected just the 7 of us. iPhone: and and 7 was the magic number that was necessary. For you to start a chapter. So there were 7 of us, and when I look back at it they selected. I from the eastern coast of Maryland. iPhone: They selected a set of twins whose mother had been a delta, and they were from Montgomery county. They selected someone from Harford County.

iPhone: And they selected 2 people from Baltimore City iPhone: and one person from Washington, DC. So they really cover the State of Maryland in a sense. iPhone: Okay, okay. And And I do recall, I'm going to say this, that at the time I was I I learned later that I had the highest gpa of the of the applicants, and I wasn't that one. iPhone: I I wasn't even trying. I wasn't.

iPhone: I can. I call from the experience. When I say I know what it means to be an excellent student. I know what it means to be a trifling student okay? And And so I encourage you. You on that trifling end. No, no, no, no, no, don't do that so iPhone: but I had a good I mean I had a good education coming out of iPhone: Wicomico County you know. I tell you what that was about, and I got educated with with with the best. And those students those I went to school with are the town leaders and the county leaders. Right now back home. I just okay. So iPhone: well, that's how I came to Delta. And

iPhone: it was. iPhone: I mean, we didn't think about the impact. It was just iPhone: we were just doing this, and and that was a sense of pride and of course over the years, you understand, you know, even more so that you started something that was not started before. So you, at the beginning of of something now some 300 plus sorors later, you could say, Oh, wow, you know the 7 of us along with Baltimore alumni chapter because they were the chapter they had to work with us to get us established. And here we are now, 48 years later. It's 48 years later. But yeah, that iPhone: that's how I came to Deltas. So I had good friends who encouraged me to apply.

iPhone: That's that's one of the gist of it. That's why the gist of it. So Moore, Azariah: that's good, though. Moore, Azariah: okay. So my next question is, When you came in 1973. Towson was just beginning to implement their desegregation plan and this came with different resources, like the Study skill center Moore, Azariah: the TOP program, a minority counselor, like helping with BSU, stuff like that? So my question is, did you use any of these resources, or did you know of them. And did you feel like welcomed by the overall Towson community like not just the black students, but also the white students.

iPhone: I knew nothing about any support stuff that but I don't blame the University for that. I blame myself, and what I was doing it that time my life, now we we did have Dr. Julius Chapman on campus, and iPhone: and he was the beacon of life for us. iPhone: and even though I didn't ask him to do anything iPhone: for me personally as a student. Other students did, and they had stories to tell about

iPhone: what he was able to help them with. And for me he was just a beacon of of hope. iPhone: and I knew that and and also someone that I knew that I that I could go to if really I needed to. But I was kind of an independent spirit person, and and I knew about. Let me back up a second. I did know about some of the services on campus particularly when, like, I said, I was going to that time period, I was kind of really falling. iPhone: and I looked at some of the counseling services, and and I don't know if I ever.

iPhone: got up enough nerve iPhone: to actually go use the services. But I do remember thinking about it. iPhone: And so I there was an awareness, and there was some some some support there. Academically, I didn't. I didn't really need support. I needed support, I needed discipline. I didn't need academic support that way in terms of iPhone: there was a a, a, a, a lag, and in my abilities and my skills and my knowledge and my content, whatever it was, more like a lack of discipline in doing the work that I was being asked to do.

iPhone: But yeah, so. iPhone: generally speaking, I mean, I just have to say, my first year a freshman. iPhone: My professors are good to me. I had decent professors and and and and I say that in the sense that I felt that they understood what it, that I was a young person iPhone: and that I needed.

iPhone: oh. iPhone: and that I wasn't perfect, and I'll say it like that, and that I wasn't perfect. iPhone: I remember. iPhone: Oh, my gosh! My chemistry One class.

iPhone: I was such a terrible student and my biggest, and when I say I'm a terrible student. I mean that I did not want to go to class iPhone: I had a terrible problem with making class and and as a consequence it really affected my academic performance. And iPhone: I had one professor. Remember, my, I think he's one of the class I had an A in, like what he you got a a in a well, okay, and it like mime, for example, mime one and two. Then the number of, and he went on to become the President with the Dr. Marlene that I had her when I was Towson for mime. iPhone: she was not the I she she got ill anyway.

iPhone: but I heard her. She was so sticked on class attendance, and she didn't want you to miss one class. And so, in order to get an A, I could not miss a class, and I love the class. So you see where I put forth the effort, because, you see, the A's and the B's, you know, otherwise. My, but I found, and and in all honesty iPhone: that iPhone: oh, they were more. Maybe iPhone: they were under trying to be understanding of me, too, as as a

iPhone: I didn't realize. And and now I didn't realize how new everything was to even to them that makes sense. It's you guys, you have black students in your class. You got this, and I never thought about the the you know the whole thing, you know, it's because you just going along being and doing, and never thought about the impact. All of a sudden some of these these these professors have never had to deal with black students. It's certainly not more than one in the class, you know. You got 2 or 3 and iPhone: and so I cannot speak. generally speaking, unfavorably. iPhone: especially concerning the fact that I was not doing what I was supposed to be doing as a student.

iPhone: and they still gave me a lot of leeway. iPhone: A lot of leeway. Moore, Azariah: Yeah. Moore, Azariah: I can definitely see how you feel like they were very understanding you as a student if they yeah if they gave you a lot of leeway

Moore, Azariah: It allworked out. Moore, Azariah: Okay? So my next set of questions are going to be about some of your actions after Towson, and then a little bit with Towson. But mostly after. Okay. So my first question is, during my research, I was really noticing that you always been like a really Moore, Azariah: big voice for political and race discussions, especially within your own communities. So I was wondering, where did you say that that spirit and passion came from. iPhone: Wow.

iPhone: that's a really heavy question. There. Yeah, it's it's it's it's a process. Hmm. I come out of a very small community of, I I need to say that I come from a community of free blacks. My ancestors were all free. Before the civil war time. So I come out of a very small could be these little 100 black people. You're free Blacks, but very independent minded thinking black people. iPhone: And this is all in and in, in, in and in, in retrospect. but still, and upon the independent minded people is who I came up with, and who I grew up with, you know. My, my, my dad was an entrepreneur. You know my parents they owned a business for for many years, you know they owned the building. They owned land, you know. My, my, my iPhone: My dad had been in business with his dad, you know, before I mean. So I so I I I come from. I come out of the background of entrepreneurship and seeing people being very independent, everybody where I come from has a side hustle . So they have a regular job, but we also have a skill to do something else to make a to, to bring in some additional income. iPhone: So when I came to.

iPhone: Towson and my my parents very independent minded. So when I came to. Towson, However, I had not. I really did not. My parents did not get engaged in the Civil rights movement, so to speak, and and we wouldn't, I didn't come out of a whole household where we watch the news every night, and iPhone: a very sheltered life actually, even though it did come out even very rural. And but I did come up always had electricity. We always had a television, you know. There was time in my early years, in my childhood years, I did have an outdoor toilet so you know very rural, very rural. And so iPhone: and I, you know. So with the first iPhone: 4 years in my school, all black, I mean 100% black, then from fifth grade on this integration.

iPhone: and and we become a minority, and and what not. So iPhone: and and none of that made it was just you. Just you living your life. I get to Towson. I wanted to talk about and share iPhone: Towson did change my life when it comes to civil rights and and and and my activism. I never forget at Towson . And learning upon learning that they there was. I think it was an, afro iPhone: American studies, or Afro, whatever it was, the African studies, minor whatever.

iPhone: And I remember being so surprised with that, and my reaction was, we had that much history to tell. iPhone: They have a major here, a minor at Towson. Why don't I know any of this? iPhone: I had gone through all those years of school and getting on with straight as in history. iPhone: I knew nothing about black people, and certainly all the history that I encountered going through my 12 years of education was that we we showed up during the Civil War slavery time other than that we didn't talk about black people. It's almost as if you did not exist in any part of history. We we said I'm in the fifth grade was to study and back. Then, in the out of the year, you studied the State of Maryland.

iPhone: and I don't recall even then learning anything about anybody black in the State of Maryland. iPhone: And so it was. It was very shocking to me. iPhone: at the age of 18 to learn that as a race of people. and I say that it's not that I wasn't exposed to. iPhone: My parents make sure we had literature around, and I learned about all the black people like that. But you see, in learning in school.

iPhone: okay? And and then I became a little bit upset. I said I got all those A's iPhone: all those years in history and social studies, and knew nothing about my own people, and that set me on a on another course iPhone: to to learn more, and and on my own time. I began to read iPhone: the other 2 things that happened. and more than 2. But 2 significant things that happen, or Also the black student union or the student government whoever brought Dick Gregory to campus

iPhone: and Dick Gregory changed my life. I'd seen him on television as a young person, and iPhone: and when he after he came to towosno, and I began to to read his work iPhone: and several of his books, and you know. Now I'm like one of my temporaries a little bit younger than I. iPhone: He he came in 2 years after me, but he was there when Dick Gregory was there. We were talking one night about it, he said. Dick Gregory changed his life also because he became a vegetarian.

iPhone: and he's a vegan, and he's never looked back. I said, well, I read, I got the book I've already. iPhone: and also they bought the campus and I was in the front row, I mean, yeah, I can touch him. And Salty Carmichael and he, his talking at that time was about what's more important is it Is it mind over matter? iPhone: or matter over mind? Now, you know, for a young person that was pretty deep. iPhone: and and the thing now, of course, is always going to be mind over matter but back then you like.

iPhone: Oh, what does that mean? Okay? But iPhone: so he put me on, on a, on a, on a philosophical type of thinking level. But it was Dick Gregory's awareness about, and he was talking about civil rights, and that to kind of opened, that steered me along also. So iPhone: And my, asI said I come from my mother was always very outspoken.

iPhone: She wasn't involved in the community life and the level that I was, but she was also one to it was very communicative, and and and being a business owner, you do a lot with the public and But yeah, I just. And then it's just a calling. iPhone: It's in that act that it gets to be a calling. You know, it gets to be a calling, and because it's a difficult life iPhone: to take a stand for civil rights iPhone: and and to advocate for equal rights for all. And it's it's it's not easy. It's a hard life, let me tell you. It's it's been no easy life here, baby

iPhone: No, it's not but God is good iPhone: I hope that I kind of answered that for you iPhone: but that but down the road, and a a as a parent. I just kind of got pulled into stuff. People pull me in and ask me questions and ask me to get involved and ask them my input and and before you know it, you you that's where you are, you know, you get the phone rings. And you know, yeah. And I mean, that's kind of how it happens. And iPhone: and people start asking for help. And of course, eventually it it did lead to be even doing the frustration, and not having a voice on the Eastern shore and in the media. Let me just start a newspaper on on the eastern shore, so we could have a voice. but yeah, but I have to say, and I think back on, it was that realization

iPhone: that we have iPhone: history other than slavery. And you're not talking about it in school. Moore, Azariah: yeah. Moore, Azariah: it's it's a big awakening, I understand.

Moore, Azariah: so my next question kind of you just kind of touched on it. But going through your documents that you donated to the archives. I saw a lot of your fact and fault, facts and folks articles which are really fun to read, and then also your own newspaper. So what drove you to start writing these, you know, kind of you kind of just touched on it. But yeah, what drove me to start writing these? And then, did you do anything similar to reporting events here at Towson in any way? iPhone: Well, okay, I'll start with Towson first. iPhone: I have to keep saying this. I I come from a small town, so you understand the lack of exposure. I never heard the word journalism iPhone: until I was way in my thirties. I didn't know people made a career out of writing for newspapers and definitely they're journalists. I just

iPhone: so a pet peeve of mine today is. And I'm even at this age trying to get around to educating young people as much as possible about career opportunities, because I didn't know, I mean other than preacher, teacher, doctor, lawyer, I mean, you know, that's all you talk iPhone: and okay. Where was I going with that? I was iPhone: I'm sorry. What what was I talking about? My in my. Moore, Azariah: about Towson and how . You didn't hear about journalism until you were in your thirties.

iPhone: I was trying to remember if I had made a suggestion iPhone: that they do a newsletter because I had worked on the Year Book in high school, and I had worked on my newspaper in in middle school I think. and and and and so we had. And I. I did a Newsletter, a black student union Newsletter, and I remember it because I did 2 columns in it. And you know, like, I said. I'm floating along. And my thing was, I did 2 columns about the social life at Towson and the cultural life. It was just us iPhone: so low brow. But

iPhone: this is stuff is going to make your mind evolve. And so mine was more about the cultural life and the parties, and then the stuff like that. And it was talking about what the people were doing, and I kept that iPhone: for decades, and I just recently just lost it in my last move up here. But yes, I did do. iPhone: I did do that for the iPhone: you know, for Black student Union on the Newsletter, I, had students that would come to me also. Black students will come to me and ask them to help them. With their work with their writing,

iPhone: Hmm. And and different things that, but also learned of that. Not everybody was as prepared for college as I was. These are the things. I never thought about it in my, my world small. So if I'm the, there, I'm thinking everybody else is at the same level, doing what I'm doing it, and I didn't think anything else about it. Just so So that was my exposure also to iPhone: Being in college did not mean that you were iPhone: academically ready, I'll say it like that. And so I did use to help students at times. With their writing. And some of those students They didn't make it, and but they couldn't write on this I don't know to say they they could. They were very poor poor writers, and I was shocked that that they were such poor writers. Actually. iPhone: I didn't get involved at the

iPhone: I, I was aware, and supported the Black student Union, and we did have some sit ins and some protests and different things, and and not supported from a far I goes to anywhere that I can't remember. I don't even know how I think I've done some walking and marching over the years. But now I'm not marching. Anyway, I'm gonna we gonna have to fight differently. We're gonna have to do this fight differently. I'm not walking. iPhone: so but iPhone: so yeah, so that about at Towson. just just for the newsletter. And and then, when I became the the Dean. I was my iPhone: first position.

iPhone: I was the second Vice President for the Mu Mu chapter of Delta Sigma Theta, and I was responsible then for membership intake iPhone: and and we had no platform. We had no formula, no records, no nothing to tell you how to do that. Nothing. So I had to develop a calendar. I had to develop a schedule. iPhone: I work with the chapter members. And then when we got the line we came up with, you know what we what you all gonna be doing and that involved. I I I just some iPhone: overseen, some little bit of writing. gets the writing skills. So but

iPhone: with the newspaper once again it it became a matter of I I'll just say it myself. Okay, I will say it myself. No one else is doing it. And I I I just I just iPhone: say it myself. and eventually with the facts and folks, after I had self-published iPhone: period of 3 years. And then I became for a short time

iPhone: the editor of the Salisbury News and Advertiser, which is also we had been like a hundred plus running years in, Wicomico county, and and then iPhone: I can't remember. iPhone: and a conversation I was had with the editor of the Salisbury Daily times iPhone: about something that we got into, why don't you do a column? And then he basically said, You can write about whatever you want to write about. I'm like he didn't put any restrictions on me

iPhone: none. And but I understood that responsibility. And so I did write about current events, and by that time I was deep involved in the community, and and and you know iPhone: And so I had a good understanding of what was going on as much as I could at that time. iPhone: And iPhone: So I'm so in one column over 3... I do that for 3 years. The third year, I ran for political office again, so I could run for office and also do the column at the same time. That's how that ended.

iPhone: But it was on the one time that didn't publish it. and that was I wrote about something that was happening at Wicomico County jail, and the employees there. They had come to me, and shared some things and what's going on. And then I wrote it up. iPhone: but, they wouldn't. They would not print it. iPhone: 6 months later they really printed the same story, they said didn't print it because you, not you, not giving out the names of your sources. And I said when I told them I would not. iPhone: Share their names, the same story of 6 months later with that, and without the name sources, too, and then we send that time to everything that's that I had. Say it was gonna happen happened, the feds to came in and blah blah blah blah, but

iPhone: But yeah, so. iPhone: But then that's my. That column stopped because I ran for political office. And then after that I'm back on. Then I moved from the shore and came across to Central Maryland to to live again. So iPhone: live for the first time. Actually, I don't count my college days. Moore, Azariah: So something quickly about Towson with like the writing and everything. I was wondering. Did you ever like read

Moore, Azariah: in the Tower light? There was as like a Moore, Azariah: section, or like a article weekly, sometimes by Francis Clay, Jr. With called Ebony News, and he would kind of talk about black issues. And you know, black life on campus. Did you ever read that? iPhone: Really? Right? Moore, Azariah: All right, I know you and Francis.

Moore, Azariah: okay, never heard of it. Okay? Well, okay, I was just wondering. Okay, so my last set of questions are just going to be about your legacy at Towson and your legacy overall, you know in general. So my first question is, what it would you consider your biggest accomplishment to be at Towson. iPhone: a little small country girl that did. Okay. and and iPhone: I and I, iPhone: I do credit Towson with oh.

iPhone: that some end the insight into. Giving me some perspectives in life and and changing maybe the the course in the sense of of I mean, I also remember thinking of Towson, that why am I here? iPhone: If by all purposes is to come to get a degree. So I can work 30 years and retire. I'm not interested in that. I'm not having that in my life plan. I'm not doing that, I don't see. iPhone: and I've not questioned my time at as a college student, you know. Why am I here, just to get a job. iPhone: So I had to evolve a a along the way with that thinking as well, and appreciate the benefit of just getting a great education and the exposure to all of the different disciplines and and the majors and the people.

iPhone: What was my question I'm supposed to be answering? Moore, Azariah:What do you consider your biggest accomplishment at Towson? iPhone: just being there. iPhone: I think some would like to say that it's you know. Of course I will never underestimate iPhone: devalue being a charter member of an organization, of Mu Mu Chapter, it's one thing I I am very proud of the fact that I was a Black cheerleader

iPhone: and then, more importantly, at a time when we were it was a predominantly black, cheerleading squad. And yeah, and no, no one doesn't talk about that. But when you go look at the game today, I don't care what sport it is iPhone: unless you're at a HBCU. It hasn't looked like us. now on the field. iPhone: on the playing ground, whatever it is, that's different. But the cheerleaders still for these, they don't look like us, so unless you're an HBCU 328 00:58:30.850 --> 00:58:37.700 iPhone: and so do we have a predominantly black cheershare. And to be part of that. History is important to me iPhone: as well. I would say, just

iPhone: helping to establish iPhone: a call from survival, you know, because we did survive there. iPhone: and and and maybe it was harder for some, then for me, for me it was more of a cultural shock coming from a rural background. It wasn't so much the the the race mix, I was used to that. It was the It was the culture the the the things to learn, the the exposure to the new thoughts and and and and and ideas and and perspectives that was I found iPhone: fascinating. So I would just say, just

iPhone: leading the away. Setting the foundation for the next students to step up. You know, we when we didn't like something we we did as collectively. And I said, that black student union the black, spoke up against it. We did have, and I look back through the year books. And I remember these people and they iPhone: some folks that got into the student government at at at at Towson. Now, when I did that back in high school, I wasn't interested in that, and and then they look at me later on in life, playing right back into politics. Okay. iPhone: But back then I was I was more interested in in in the and then the cultural life and the iPhone: the the content of the the course work.

iPhone: I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm a lifelong learner. So I love learning. I love learning, and I think that I got a good education well rounded education. iPhone: at Townson. iPhone: So I would just say just being there at a time, and it was transitioning itself and and hopefully being able to be a beacon of light to attract other students of color to want to come in and say, this is a a institution is fine enough for me to attend and to start my my adult life with based on my my time here. So iPhone: you know I it was, gave me a good education, I met some great people

iPhone: I hope they feel the same way about me. iPhone: you know. iPhone: But I would say, yeah, just being a survivor iPhone: and and and and and a new environment and and and doing it in a way that other folks go. Oh, it's like to have a nephew that graduated, a great nephew that just graduated from from Towson.

iPhone: Yeah, this May iPhone: and I have another. I've had other relatives that have come through iPhone: at Towson. And I think They certainly heard about it before I did like. I said I didn't even know I didn't even know about Yale. Yeah. I mean, I got an invitation to attend Yale, I mean, you don't know. iPhone: All right. I'm going to towson.

iPhone: but I would just say just being there and iPhone: I won't say I do nothing based on. I don't brag on my academics. I'm quite honest about my academics at Towson, because as a way to encourage others when you see yourself slipping. iPhone: you know, pay attention, you know. But enjoy the ride, I would say. I said. They will be the 3 bees boys. iPhone: books and booze. You have to have a balance.

iPhone: and I got iPhone: the booze meaning social life, and I'm not just saying drinking. And when you know all that was going on in towson. before I leave. I want. I know the young people talk about we don't yall so far, y'all so old, let me take something iPhone: we came through at a time when not only it was the ending of the civil rights movement we were the civil rights movement iPhone: It was the sexual evolution was taking place, the drug culture was exploding. The Vietnam war was taking place and ending, we just had Tricky Dick cause a fight, a president due

iPhone: to resign. It was a lot going on call fully. Okay, that impacts everything iPhone: that we talk about. That is the norm. It was not the norm for us in 73. It was not in a norm to expect people to be doing drugs to be, you know, to be all this sexual freedom. And then we were very pious people in a comparison, you know, to what we're looking at today and but we but we were at the beginning of all of that. and and our parents can't prepare us. iPhone: I could talk to my kids about drugs. I could talk to my kids about a lot of things that

iPhone: that my parents can talk to us about okay, cause they hadn't lived through it. So we' have to keep all that in mind. Very turbulent times when we came to Towson in the in in in the seventies, because it was a rollercoaster ride for America. Culturally. iPhone: surviving honey. surviving all of that. iPhone: Yeah. iPhone: okay, because a lot of people didn't even make it through, after we we come back the second year and

iPhone: people gone, they only made one year. iPhone: and I know the back end. Now I'm you know, very much more understanding. I know that they may have been a lack of effort to keep people on campus, you know, we get to know this, it's about getting them there for the Federal. But we already know integration in the colleges occurred because you got Federal dollars, and the Federal Government said you got to let Black people and people everybody else come here. We already know about that. iPhone: So and and and so there gets to be another conversation about when you get us there. Are you trying to keep us? iPhone: And here, and that's a whole, another conversation. Okay, so, but I did come along with the affirmative action integration was at... And it came at that level was really just

iPhone: just at it's hay day and iPhone: It's all I can say just I'm a survivor, and I hope I survived in a way that people can say she could do it, I can do it. iPhone: Hmm! iPhone: I met so many

iPhone: great people. well, you know, I I iPhone: I iPhone: being kind of green has its benefits. So it's kind of unfair to be looking back now with, you know my, with my worldliness as to what I would change because but I I've always been aware that I I'm a country girl.

iPhone: and and I always been aware with that it does come limitation, some limitations in. And so I've always been a great observer iPhone: of people and of life. and iPhone: and and and to learn things, to learn things. And what's that old saying you know it's better to be quiet, and and to open up your mouth and expose yourself. You know what I mean. It's just like it. Just be quiet.

iPhone: and and then So one more to describe my experience in Towson. Oh, my, it was such an adventure. Moore, Azariah: yeah. iPhone: yeah. it's kind of. iPhone: you know. It was kind of just going through. But

iPhone: it was. It was. It was pretty transformational iPhone: transformational. And and and and looking back and and and and when you you're growing up. You come in at 18. Yeah, as as a as a teenager, and you leave as a young adult, I mean you on the very iPhone: beginning of being an adult but still iPhone: deeply changed.

iPhone: What was the other thing? You asked me Moore, Azariah: if if you would change anything about the time? iPhone: Well, I would really encourage people to don't miss your classes. iPhone: I would. But that was who I was back then, and luckily I did have a couple of professors that didn't care about attendance, and but And then I tell all college students now I didn't have unlike. When I went to school at Salisbury University. I had relationships with my professors, and I didn't have that. I didn't do that when I was at Towson. I mean they were. I only had one black professor

iPhone: the whole time I was a Towson Moore, Azariah: that's something. iPhone: I think I just said one that was up up for political science, poli sci 101, He was an African professor, and that's all. I had. iPhone: No oh!

iPhone: And once again I just accepted as as it was. This is this is Towson. This is what it is. And so, along with that one professor that was a a a Julius Chapman. And iPhone: and that I was aware of, you know. Moore, Azariah: That's so interesting that you say, because when I like go through a lot of the articles in the archives, a lot of it talks about how they were trying to pull in black professors. So for a student to say, they only knew of 2 black professors is really shocking. I've really been interested in to see. Like. Moore, Azariah: you know, I know the behind the scenes. But what did the students actually feel? Yeah, it's really interesting.

iPhone: my first 4 years of school completely black, principal on down after that fifth grade forward I had my band teacher in middle school for 3 years was black. My gym teacher in 3 years in middle school was black. I didn't get another Black teacher until I was a senior in high school. Okay? So I was used to having Black Professor. iPhone: Excuse me, I said for me it wasn't that much of a of a of a transition, a shock in terms of the academic culture. I was more with the social culture and the arts culture. That was all you know new to me, you know the lifestyle. But academically, I was used to seeing white people up front talking to teaching iPhone: I didn't think much about it once again, but for someone else coming from an urban background where they were used to having black people in leadership positions and and and and and and then teachers and iPhone: all that did. I had that from the like, from the age of 9 to 10.

iPhone: Right? So iPhone: so just everything, just just the whole, just coming to Towson a little bit differently than than some of the folks that were coming in from the more urban areas and the suburban areas. So iPhone: I was used to being instructed and and learning and from iPhone: people did not look like me.

iPhone: from my time. iPhone: or just anyone in general. Moore, Azariah: Hmm. From your time. Moore, Azariah: But, like, if you have any names, you think that would be, you know, productive

Moore, Azariah: pass them along. iPhone: I'm trying to think of someone, if I said boy they lived an interesting life. Let me think. Moore, Azariah: hmm! iPhone: gosh!

iPhone: Or! Or! Oh, a nice little I'm gonna go back to the Eastern Shore. and I'm going. I I would take a look at someone, my girlfriend and my Delta soror or Hervina Kennedy. iPhone: because she actually did go back if she actually made a life for herself, first in Baltimore and then on the shore. And iPhone: and and now she does come back as an alumni iPhone: but just regular stuff. I'm trying to think anybody. See, let me let me explain something.

iPhone: I'm not impressed with how much money you you've made. I'm not impressed with your job Titles or your titles but I am impressed with iPhone: what did you do to improve the lives of children and their families. So if I'm going to recommend someone, it's to be about someone who's done that I don't care if you made a million dollars a billion dollars. I really don't. iPhone: I'm not, you know. That's nice and all. But what did you do to change the lives and improve the lies of other people that. and may have come at a sacrifice iPhone: to you to do that. Okay, those are kind of people I'm interested in. So you and I know you asked me earlier. And I thought about it. And I'm like, well. okay.

iPhone: because that's a tough one. iPhone: Everybody. Yeah, yeah. iPhone: You know you should probably only iPhone: You know the the townson Black Alumni Association is doing a lot of work.

iPhone: and they have been recognizing a lot of the black alumni that have gone on to do a incredible things. iPhone: And one person I was just made aware of is Viera. Oh, why, W. A. White. It was iPhone: was there in the seventies and eighties to okay. But anyway, she's going on. She doesn't. California. She's on some great work in California and not only with her career, but also started the theater there that benefits children with disabilities. iPhone: And and I think that's amazing work. I just learned about that in the last couple of months or so so

iPhone: but don't work out there that really moves the community forward and not just yourself, and not just yourself iPhone: and the move the community forward those are, So someone like that iPhone: that. And she started theater with the whole intent is to elevate other people and help other people. Now, that's someone I would be interested in learning more about. Yeah. iPhone: okay.

Moore, Azariah: well, that's all my question. So that would conclude the oral history for today. iPhone: Okay.