Interview with Dennis Ferrell

Abby Bowling: Alright. How are you doing today? Dennis Ferrell: I'm good. Abby Bowling: Good to hear, good to hear. So we'll go ahead and just dive right in. So, I've sent you the questions. So the vague outline is we'll start with like, your early life, we'll talk about your time at Towson, and then your time as an alum. So just to get some background information on you, can you tell us where you're from and can you talk about the community you grew up in? Dennis Ferrell: Okay. Originally from Baltimore.

Dennis Ferrell: I wasn't born in a hospital. I was born in a house down on McCullough Street. Dennis Ferrell: I remember my childhood very vividly, because some parts of it was difficult. Well, I guess Dennis Ferrell: all through school, all through grade school, Dennis Ferrell: because I was an only child, so I got picked on a lot so I had to learn how to

Dennis Ferrell: defend myself. Dennis Ferrell: We talk a lot about bullies in school now, bullies have always been around and always probably will be. Dennis Ferrell: I Dennis Ferrell: had a great elementary school,

Dennis Ferrell: and and I imagine it's the same now. Teachers were very Dennis Ferrell: loving and caring and put you in great situations. I remember we even had a guinea pig in our elementary class, all the way through the 6th grade, I think it was. His name was Skipper, and that was my last name at the time, was Skipper as well. Dennis Ferrell: But when I hit junior high school or middle school, as it is now, I had a rough time. Dennis Ferrell: I was mentally lost.

Dennis Ferrell: I was sitting in classes and had no idea what was going on. Dennis Ferrell: I think it was an accelerated class, because I had Dennis Ferrell: classes that dealt with mechanical engineering and the like, Dennis Ferrell: but I didn't perform very well.

Dennis Ferrell: I remember once a teacher called me a "wood butcher" because he was trying to get me to learn how to cut an Dennis Ferrell: angle on wood, and I just couldn't do it. I later became very mechanically inclined, so I'm not really sure what was going on then. But Dennis Ferrell: when I hit high school, Dennis Ferrell: I went to Carver Vocational Technical High School, which is in Baltimore.

Dennis Ferrell: And I still had the problem with...not necessarily bullies, but having to defend myself and Dennis Ferrell: and we... Dennis Ferrell: Present day schools, they talk about drugs in schools and all that. Drugs have been in schools since I was in high school. We've not dealt with that very well. I don't think we've really dealt with the Dennis Ferrell: real causes.

Dennis Ferrell: But I had a great high school experience. Dennis Ferrell: I met a lot of my life-long friends in high school, one of my best friends. We see each other now on Wednesdays at the American Legion. He and I in the 11th grade, decided we was going to quit school because we couldn't take it anymore. So we went downtown, Dennis Ferrell: and we took every test to get into the military and we failed every one. Dennis Ferrell: I passed the Air Force enough. I think if I had a high school diploma they would take me, and so we decided to go back to school. And we went back to school and

Dennis Ferrell: we finished. Dennis Ferrell: I participated in sports when I was in school. I played football, Dennis Ferrell: and that was a really eye opening experience for me, because it taught me how to endure. Dennis Ferrell: And it became really in handy all through my lifetime in terms of when things get tough and and you really want to quit or give up,

Dennis Ferrell: sometimes you have to make the decision stick with it or not. Dennis Ferrell: And I had that same Dennis Ferrell: thought when I was at Towson, because I wanted to play football there. Dennis Ferrell: But my...

Dennis Ferrell: I have a bad knee that was Dennis Ferrell: hurt while I was playing football in the Air Force. Dennis Ferrell: So once I graduated from high school, I went into the Air Force and Dennis Ferrell: because of my test results,

Dennis Ferrell: I was enrolled in a aircraft mechanic program. Dennis Ferrell: That was after boot camp. Dennis Ferrell: I went to... Dennis Ferrell: outside of Champaign, Illinois. It was an Air Force base training school. It was Chanute Air Force Base.

Dennis Ferrell: And I was given a a level of leadership, Dennis Ferrell: where I would march 400 guys to school, and I would inspect the barracks and make sure it was clean and orderly and that kind of thing. So that whole piece about Dennis Ferrell: sticking in the hard times and being prepared... Dennis Ferrell: I became a whole different individual in the Air Force from what I was in high school, because I never really got a sense of my physical stature

Dennis Ferrell: and the Air Force kind of made that Dennis Ferrell: known to me, and because I think of my size Dennis Ferrell: they gave me positions of leading other airmen during that time. After Dennis Ferrell: the Air Force,

Dennis Ferrell: well during my experience in the Air Force, I was on the Island of Midway. Dennis Ferrell: And I met a guy, and he was from Dennis Ferrell: New England. He may have been from Maine. Dennis Ferrell: And all he talked about was Rod McKuen and playing classical guitar,

Dennis Ferrell: and living in an A-frame house in Maine, Dennis Ferrell: and how he was gonna go back to college, or he was going to go to college. And our talking...he really made an impression on me, so I wanted to go to college. I initially wanted to go to play football, but I never received any interest from Dennis Ferrell: the school for that. Probably because I wasn't that good. But Dennis Ferrell: because of him and a few other folks I met during my

Dennis Ferrell: time in service, going to college became an important thing for me to try and do. I was never a very good student, and so I wasn't really sure how I was gonna make out, Dennis Ferrell: but decided to try and do that. Dennis Ferrell: So when I went back to Guam, because I was sent to Midway as Dennis Ferrell: what they call a "temporary duty station",

Dennis Ferrell: I started preparing myself for discharge. Dennis Ferrell: I was discharged from the Air Force, July the 4th of 1969 Dennis Ferrell: and I immediately enrolled in Community College, Baltimore City Community College, that September. Dennis Ferrell: And I struggled initially. And I kinda got,

Dennis Ferrell: I guess, an understanding of how to study, and Dennis Ferrell: and how to work with my... Dennis Ferrell: my time allocation, I guess is the best way to put it, because I was Dennis Ferrell: able to get a job with Cloverland Dairy, and in those days

Dennis Ferrell: delivering milk to your home was Dennis Ferrell: the thing, and so I was a milkman during my early years of going back to school. Dennis Ferrell: I get up at 4 o'clock in the morning I get to the dairy at 6 o'clock. Dennis Ferrell: I'd be finished by 10:30, 11 o'clock.

Dennis Ferrell: I'd be on my way to schools for a 1:30 class. Dennis Ferrell: And I went to Dennis Ferrell: afternoon classes and evening school classes. Dennis Ferrell: And I would come back home and I'd study, and I'd do the thing same thing over again.

Dennis Ferrell: I majored, at that level, in business administration and sociology. I chose Dennis Ferrell: before I was discharged. I chose business because I always remember my father talking about Dennis Ferrell: the difference in how blacks were treated at Bethlehem Steel. How supervisors wore white hats, Dennis Ferrell: and they just didn't treat people well. And I always thought that if I was able to get a position

Dennis Ferrell: of management, or anything like that, I would try and change my little section of the world. So that's why I chose business. Dennis Ferrell: And I chose sociology because I could never understand why people just picked on other people. Dennis Ferrell: And that seemed to be something that Dennis Ferrell: met my interests. So I majored in sociology.

Dennis Ferrell: And one of my fist sociology instructors, his name was Walter Dean. Dennis Ferrell: Walter became a State of Maryland Delegate when he was teaching as well. Dennis Ferrell: And one of the first lessons he wanted us to understand was "common sense is not common." Dennis Ferrell: And depending on your environment, whether you live in Tennessee or whether you live in

Dennis Ferrell: Boston, Massachusetts, or Seattle, Washington, Dennis Ferrell: your realities are very different, and it wasn't something we were used to hearing. Dennis Ferrell: But I met a great group of fellow students, and we were all pretty much, I guess maybe three-quarters of the classes that I took were all older students. Dennis Ferrell: When I finished the community college-

Dennis Ferrell: I think it's important- I went for every semester. I went summer school, fall, spring break, if it was a mini-course, I took that, and then Dennis Ferrell: then the remainder of the year, because I was afraid that if I ever stopped Dennis Ferrell: it would be hard to get back into the groove and the like. So I finished in Dennis Ferrell: I think it was June of 1971.

Dennis Ferrell: And I had a friend that... Dennis Ferrell: we had developed a friendship. His name was Anthony Civils. And we were talking about where we're gonna go to school after we graduated from community college, and I told him I was going to Morgan, and he said, "Well, no, don't go to Morgan. Go to Towson", and I'd never heard of Towson. And he was saying, "Well. Dennis Ferrell: you go to Morgan. You'll probably fail, because all you gotta do is party. Go to Towson, and you'll see what Dennis Ferrell: they're teaching their kids out there because it's predominantly a white school."

Dennis Ferrell: I said, "Well, okay", I don't have a problem with being around white people, so I'll go. That was my whole experience in the Air Force, was a new exposure or a continued exposure. I had as a kid very, when I was maybe 4 or 5 years old, Dennis Ferrell: I lived in a neighborhood where Dennis Ferrell: there was still just one or two, I think it was one or two white families still in our neighborhood. Dennis Ferrell: It was on North Avenue, between Monroe and Fulton.

Dennis Ferrell: And me and this kid we used to play in the back alley of our apartment building. Dennis Ferrell: And we had another buddy who was a black kid, and we would play back there with him. Well, the two of them, they had a fight. They were fighting each other, and the Black Kid threw a stick at the white kid, and it ricocheted off his foot and stuck me in the eye. Dennis Ferrell: I lost my left eye at that time. Dennis Ferrell: But I never held him responsible. I never was mad at him. But as a kid,

Dennis Ferrell: I think Dennis Ferrell: you're given the opportunity to learn and experience different things. And so I've carried that relationship always through my lifetime. Dennis Ferrell: I even later learned that my great grandmother was Irish Canadian, Dennis Ferrell: who married a African seaman, and they lived up on the border of

Dennis Ferrell: Saint Paul, Minnesota, and Canada, Dennis Ferrell: but that was later on in life. Dennis Ferrell: It was Dennis Ferrell: not a shock when I went came to Towson. I was wide eyed, even though I was older. I was like...it was uh...

Dennis Ferrell: The campus life was something I really enjoyed. Dennis Ferrell: There were times during my Dennis Ferrell: education at Towson, where we would take our classes outdoors, especially like summer school or Dennis Ferrell: in the spring, and I became in

Dennis Ferrell: interested in in teaching, because I could just see myself outside under a tree, teaching something. Dennis Ferrell: Never got to do that. I did become a trainer at some point, Dennis Ferrell: but I never got to do that. Dennis Ferrell: When I arrived at Towson it was

Dennis Ferrell: really eye-awakening. I had never known of Severna Park, or Prince George's County, Dennis Ferrell: or Pasadena. But most of, if not all the kids- or the people- I met at Towson at that time, the students, they were from those areas, and I had no idea that black folks were there. I met a few individuals from Baltimore City. Dennis Ferrell: Those that I met from Baltimore, we all commuted. Dennis Ferrell: The ones from PG and Severna Park, they were living on campus. Never went to a dorm, so I have no idea what that was like.

Dennis Ferrell: But this was also the time when Dennis Ferrell: they had just finished the student center. It was one floor at that time, Dennis Ferrell: and it was a hangout between classes. And you got to meet folks, Dennis Ferrell: and we used to go to basketball games,

Dennis Ferrell: but the time went by so quick it was unbelievable. Dennis Ferrell: I remember I got to the point where I was trying to make sure I had enough credits to to graduate and Dennis Ferrell: I found that I was short Dennis Ferrell: a class.

Dennis Ferrell: Never really mastered tennis or bowling. Did pretty well in the acting class. Dennis Ferrell: I also majored in at Towson, it's the same I had at Dennis Ferrell: Community College of Baltimore, it was business and sociology. Dennis Ferrell: My relationships with professions were very enlightning for me.

Dennis Ferrell: They were very open to my constant help and direction. Dennis Ferrell: I tried playing football, I went for summer practice, Dennis Ferrell: but I couldn't deal with the pain any longer. Dennis Ferrell: The lifestyle I was having at school was jeopardizing my academic performance as well as

Dennis Ferrell: my playing football, so I had to make a decision. Dennis Ferrell: This is one time that Dennis Ferrell: I quit knowing that I may regret it. Coaches tried to keep me from quitting, but I quit, anyway because I couldn't do them both. Dennis Ferrell: I couldn't see myself playing football and struggling in school, and

Dennis Ferrell: trying to give up this lifestyle that, I mean... it was... Dennis Ferrell: We had a good time at Towson, haha! Dennis Ferrell: Off campus parties, or parties on campus, Dennis Ferrell: but I took it too far.

Dennis Ferrell: So I spent my... My father's brother in Indiana passed away, and Dennis Ferrell: we were driving there for the funeral, so I went with him. Dennis Ferrell: And I used that time to Dennis Ferrell: to straighten my behavior and clean my system up,

Dennis Ferrell: and when I came back to Towson after those couple of days, I was better prepared to do the schoolwork and the like, so. Dennis Ferrell: I created once -in a business class- we created a small business. That was one of our projects. Dennis Ferrell: When I finished Towson and I graduated, Dennis Ferrell: I had the opportunity to

Dennis Ferrell: partner with teo other individuals. One was an African, he was from the Republic of Guinea. Dennis Ferrell: He imported African art and Dennis Ferrell: fabric, and the like. And another was a young lady. She was a clothing designer Dennis Ferrell: with African influence.

Dennis Ferrell: And we opened a store, downtown Baltimore and I was able to model it after the project at at Towson. Dennis Ferrell: It didn't last very long. I think it lasted about 2 and a half years. Dennis Ferrell: We had a flawed marketing concept. Dennis Ferrell: It wasn't that many people who were interested in that at the time. Maybe in the eighties. If we had done this in the eighties we'd had a better sense... because then it became really popular in the late seventies. It wasn't...

Dennis Ferrell: From there, I Dennis Ferrell: decided I was going to start volunteering. Dennis Ferrell: I volunteered for NAACP, Dennis Ferrell: and during that time they were trying to

Dennis Ferrell: improve their membership and support with younger adults. Dennis Ferrell: So I was able to to participate in their television ads and Dennis Ferrell: and some of their community outreach. Dennis Ferrell: I went from there to volunteering for a nonprofit that provided

Dennis Ferrell: housing and community services for ex-offenders. Dennis Ferrell: I served on the board for maybe about six months, close to almost a year. Dennis Ferrell: And then I was asked to Dennis Ferrell: take a position that they were gonna create, it was assistant director.

Dennis Ferrell: Because the director was an individual who was an ex-offender himself. Dennis Ferrell: He had written a book called "Poor Black and in Real Trouble". Dennis Ferrell: But he wasn't very good at Dennis Ferrell: the administrative side of his business. And

Dennis Ferrell: from my education at Community College of Baltimore and at Towson, I created a spreadsheet Dennis Ferrell: which allowed us to better track our meeting objectives and the like. Dennis Ferrell: So it was a good Dennis Ferrell: beginning phase of my learning to be a manager or work in administration.

Dennis Ferrell: I was doing a lot of work with community organizations that were interested in Dennis Ferrell: making prisons a better place for individuals. Dennis Ferrell: We became a group of advocates, and we would travel to prisons and meet with wardens, Dennis Ferrell: and from that experience I met a gentleman whose name was Jack Pierce.

Dennis Ferrell: Jack ran a program called Prisoners Aid Association. Dennis Ferrell: Jack received a grant to establish a program that would Dennis Ferrell: work with, provide food and shelter for individuals being released from local prisons and jails. Dennis Ferrell: I was fortunate to get that director's job.

Dennis Ferrell: I managed a contract with a restaurant across the street from Dennis Ferrell: this hotel we had this program in. Dennis Ferrell: The hotel was a Congress hotel, Dennis Ferrell: which, sadly was the place where the young lady

Dennis Ferrell: was murdered down on Saratoga Street in downtown Baltimore. Dennis Ferrell: I forgot what they call the building now, Dennis Ferrell: but across the street from there was a restaurant called the Maryland Square, Dennis Ferrell: so I would pay for meals that individuals would go there for.

Dennis Ferrell: That was a great experience for me because I was looking for opportunities to Dennis Ferrell: better serve our clients. Dennis Ferrell: I took the approach that there were agencies that provided Dennis Ferrell: all the services people would need, we really didn't need to create that in-house. So for me, it was a better utilization of what currently existed. So I spent time trying to develop those partnerships, and one of the partnerships I decided to look for was with the local large corporations, and McCormick

Dennis Ferrell: obviously was one of those. This was when McCormick was downtown in Baltimore. Dennis Ferrell: I had a friend Dennis Ferrell: who was executive assistant for McCormick. She worked in the commercial side of the business. With McCormick, they did retail and commercial. Dennis Ferrell: Retail is your grocery stores, and the like. Commercial is, you know, the special sauce that Mcdonald's has, McCormick makes that special sauce. So they did business with

Dennis Ferrell: restaurants and other companies. So she told me that you can call the Vice President of Human Resources, and he'll pick up his phone. It was a very Dennis Ferrell: important referral for me. So when I called, I spoke with this gentleman, he said he was the Vice President of HR, and I told him about my program, and what I was looking for was employment opportunities for our clients. Dennis Ferrell: And he set up a meeting where I went up to Hunt Valley, Dennis Ferrell: and that's where corporate headquarters was,

Dennis Ferrell: and I think it still is. Dennis Ferrell: And we talked, and he said, well, he would follow up and get back to me. Dennis Ferrell: And he said "If you're ever looking for a job", not that he was offering me one, to give him a call. So I thanked him for it, and he introduced me to the human resource managers for the different divisions. And I was able to Dennis Ferrell: successfully get around and talk to those individuals.

Dennis Ferrell: And we were setting up a way to refer individuals to interview Dennis Ferrell: for job openings they would have. Well, Dennis Ferrell: during this time we had an election, and Ronald Reagan became President, Dennis Ferrell: and the federal government cut out

Dennis Ferrell: a major portion of their budget, which affected nonprofits and grants, so I lost my grant. Dennis Ferrell: But this was also at a period of time when nonprofits had to rethink, Dennis Ferrell: refocus on how they were gonna survive because the monies weren't gonna be there anymore. Dennis Ferrell: Corporations like Goodwill- this is when Goodwill decided they was gonna create sustainability through in-house programming.

Dennis Ferrell: That's when they started creating their stores. Dennis Ferrell: They created a Dennis Ferrell: temporary agency. And it was a new way for nonprofits to start thinking. Dennis Ferrell: Instead of just their goals for helping individuals, it was also how do they create

Dennis Ferrell: operations that provided incomes for them themselves? Dennis Ferrell: Well, I Dennis Ferrell: was very fortunate when I lost the grant that I had a friend who received a contract from Dennis Ferrell: Hershey Medical School to provide training to boarding home operators.

Dennis Ferrell: So I was selected to Dennis Ferrell: become a consultant, and we wrote a training manual for Dennis Ferrell: the medical school so we could implement training programs throughout Pennsylvania. Dennis Ferrell: Can I take a break for a minute.

Abby Bowling: Yeah, of course! Dennis Ferrell: Okay. I got a contractor coming here for fix something, and he's knocking on the door. Abby Bowling: Gotcha. Yeah, no problem. Dennis Ferrell: It's snowing outside?

Abby Bowling: It is. It's coming down hard here, too. Dennis Ferrell: Oh, boy, and I've been cheated out of a summer, I mean it's gone. Dennis Ferrell: Well, um. Dennis Ferrell: It was...at that point in life,

Dennis Ferrell: I was Dennis Ferrell: almost like an 18-year-old. I was learning Dennis Ferrell: new ways of doing things, and I was very fortunate, very lucky. Dennis Ferrell: After the consulting work, I had never been a consultant, so that was all new.

Dennis Ferrell: I... Dennis Ferrell: Writing a training manual was very different. I used to catch a train and go to Philadelphia to work with this husband and wife Dennis Ferrell: consulting company, and together we wrote the manual on how to Dennis Ferrell: help these boarding home operators to meet the state regulations.

Dennis Ferrell: Following that, I Dennis Ferrell: decided to go back to graduate school. I decided to go back to school, and so I enrolled in the University of Baltimore graduate school. I had Dennis Ferrell: enough credits with the VA Dennis Ferrell: that they would pay for a semester.

Dennis Ferrell: And I took 15 credits. Dennis Ferrell: It was a 30 credit master's program. Dennis Ferrell: I took 15 credits at University of Baltimore, Dennis Ferrell: and at the same time I gave McCormick a call to

Dennis Ferrell: see if there was any employment opportunities. And Dennis Ferrell: they called me back and set up an interview. Dennis Ferrell: I interviewed with the general manager, Dennis Ferrell: and that was a interesting interview. That was probably the best interview that I've ever done in my life, and since.

Dennis Ferrell: We talked about Dennis Ferrell: the value of education and the school. Because when Dennis Ferrell: we talked about it and he said, "Oh, you went to Towson!" I mean, so it became Dennis Ferrell: an asset, pretty much. He had kids that he sent to Richmond.

Dennis Ferrell: He said that Richmond is... University of Richmond is very much like Towson. Dennis Ferrell: That the quality of education is great, Dennis Ferrell: but the cost isn't overbearing. And he was about how important it was to have your child pay for their own education, that way they really take it serious, because if you pay out your pocket, Dennis Ferrell: they waste a lot of your money. And that was interesting for him to say.

Dennis Ferrell: And he let me know that Dennis Ferrell: they have always had a concern about bringing in new people for sales, because a lot of folks Dennis Ferrell: who finished college want a briefcase, Dennis Ferrell: and they think they're going into business.

Dennis Ferrell: And in McCormick it wasn't a briefcase, it was a sales bag. And Dennis Ferrell: I told him I was prepared to do the work, and I was hired. Dennis Ferrell: I started off as a sales rep. Dennis Ferrell: Someone trained me, for I think it was like two weeks.

Dennis Ferrell: We went around to -I had a territory- Dennis Ferrell: and he showed me my accounts and what my responsibilities would be. Dennis Ferrell: I was not prepared for the physical Dennis Ferrell: demands of the job. I had the wrong kind of shoes,

Dennis Ferrell: I was overdressed. I was wearing suits, and didn't know all you needed was khakis, a blazer, Dennis Ferrell: some loafers, white shirt or blue shirt, Dennis Ferrell: and you put your tie inside your shirt, and you pull product from the out of the back room in the supermarket, and you fill the shelves up and Dennis Ferrell: you clean the shelves. And

Dennis Ferrell: you did that whether it was rain, sun, Dennis Ferrell: hail, it didn't make a difference, you went around to stores. My initial territory was Dennis Ferrell: Washington, DC. Dennis Ferrell: and southern Maryland.

Dennis Ferrell: And then I was transferred back to... I did some work around Baltimore. I moved four times in six years with McCormick. Dennis Ferrell: I was transferred from Dennis Ferrell: the Washington area to the Virginia Beach area Dennis Ferrell: because McCormick... we had just

Dennis Ferrell: received a new customer, a warehouse. Dennis Ferrell: Eventually I was given the responsibility of managing the warehouse business. Dennis Ferrell: I think I did that well enough that I was selected to be a sales regional trainer. Dennis Ferrell: I relocated to Baltimore, and I covered eight states

Dennis Ferrell: where I would go around and train the new salespeople, new supervisors. Dennis Ferrell: I think I did that for six months. Dennis Ferrell: And I was promoted to district sales manager for Chicago and southern Illinois. Dennis Ferrell: I went to that assignment in December of

Dennis Ferrell: '74. Dennis Ferrell: I was transferred back to Virginia Beach Dennis Ferrell: in March of '85, because McCormick had decided that they was gonna go Dennis Ferrell: to contract with brokers, and they were gonna

Dennis Ferrell: dissolve all of their sales force Dennis Ferrell: in the Chicago Central area. So my old regional manager brought me back, he kind of saved me, Dennis Ferrell: cause I may still be in Chicago working for somebody else right now. He brought me back to Dennis Ferrell: Virginia Beach, and I was district manager for State of Virginia and parts of West Virginia,

Dennis Ferrell: Eastern Shore, Delaware, and northeast North Carolina. Dennis Ferrell: You know, I had a great deal of experiences that Dennis Ferrell: I still utilize today in terms of Dennis Ferrell: how I do business and how I think about business.

Dennis Ferrell: I was given the opportunity... You probably wouldn't know it, but Dennis Ferrell: the founder of McCormick and Company created the management philosophy of today, 'Participatory Management', Dennis Ferrell: where there was a great appreciation for the working force. Dennis Ferrell: They gave individuals opportunities to

Dennis Ferrell: serve on committees, Dennis Ferrell: which gave you experience of working with other folks and seeing how... Dennis Ferrell: Did I just lose you guys? Abby Bowling: No, sorry! That was an accident on my part.

Dennis Ferrell: Oh, oh, okay, I do that all the time. Dennis Ferrell: It was a great experience. Dennis Ferrell: But my father passed away in December of '85, Dennis Ferrell: and my mother had lost pretty much all of her eyesight.

Dennis Ferrell: So Dennis Ferrell: living in Virginia Beach, I couldn't really respond to her needs in Baltimore, which was like a four hour ride away. Dennis Ferrell: I have... Dennis Ferrell: Well, I had a brother who passed away, and a sister who lived with my mother, but

Dennis Ferrell: they couldn't deal with the Dennis Ferrell: problems that she had, and situations, so I started looking for another employment opportunity in Baltimore. McCormick couldn't transfer me, they didn't have opening Dennis Ferrell: in the area. Dennis Ferrell: And I went to Park Sausage Company and

Dennis Ferrell: they created a position for me. Dennis Ferrell: it was Manpower and Sales Development Manager. So Dennis Ferrell: I went to work for them. And Dennis Ferrell: what I was able to do with them is, take a lot of my experience with McCormick managing brokers, and we open new markets for business.

Dennis Ferrell: We created created a a position called Direct Sales, National Direct Sales Manager. Dennis Ferrell: I was able to go to back to Chicago, I went to Detroit, Dennis Ferrell: New England, Hampton, Dennis Ferrell: New York.

Dennis Ferrell: You know what private labels are, like Cheerios. Dennis Ferrell: The main brand is Cheerios, but then the store may have a brand that looks like Cheerios. Like that's what you call a store brand, and I created that for some small meat retail stores in New York. Dennis Ferrell: Only difference is it was meat products. And I had...working in a small company like Parks was, you get to work with the production people, you get to work with the chemists who... Dennis Ferrell: They provide the mixture of meats. They give you certain textures, how much seasoning, in terms of the flavors. So we created sausage items for this retail store in New York.

Dennis Ferrell: And they got to choose the texture, the flavor, the packaging that they would like, and I would take that back to production, and we would create a product. We also created what was called "dummy shelves". If you go into a super supermarket, and Dennis Ferrell: some items Dennis Ferrell: they have sell by dates, and manufacturers have to pick them up before they get to that sell by date so customers don't buy outdated products, so they don't see a lot of short-dated items. And if you do that a lot, and you're not selling a lot you have to like, dummy up the shelf. So, Dennis Ferrell: I created dummy products that we would put in the back of the shelves and put the real items in front of it. It was a great experience working with Parks.

Dennis Ferrell: And Dennis Ferrell: again, it gave me an opportunity to do Dennis Ferrell: all that I've learned in education and all the experiences I was able to transfer from McCormick to Parks. I took a Dennis Ferrell: a portion of our businesses. It was like, maybe it had sales about a $106,000 year.

Dennis Ferrell: And it was basically items that would be in 7/11 freezers. Dennis Ferrell: We expanded our distribution from Dennis Ferrell: $100,000 to a million and two in ten months, simply by selling a product to Food Lion. This is when Food Lion was starting to take over nationally, I think they had 800 stores by then, so if I could get one case into every store, that was a major sales thing, and that's how we were able to grow Dennis Ferrell: from 100,000 to a million in such a short period of time. And that's only because of

Dennis Ferrell: the marriage of education and work experience. Because it doesn't take Dennis Ferrell: gall or tenacity to do that. Experience, and knowing that the very basics and how to Dennis Ferrell: to build a business in a quick way come into play, so. I'm very fortunate. Dennis Ferrell: But that life with Parks didn't last very long, because Parks was going out of business, so

Dennis Ferrell: I left Parks. I was able to qualify for unemployment. Dennis Ferrell: I went to real estate school just to keep myself busy until I found another job, another employment opportunity. Dennis Ferrell: Fortunately, the buddy who I had quit high school with Dennis Ferrell: was now running a prison in Jessup, Maryland, and

Dennis Ferrell: he called me and and told me he had an opportunity. It was a contract employee job, Dennis Ferrell: working in prisons as a volunteer coordinator. Dennis Ferrell: So I took the job. Dennis Ferrell: And I created a Volunteers Coordinator Office

Dennis Ferrell: in a new prison in Jessup. Dennis Ferrell: I worked there... I started there in '93, and Dennis Ferrell: in 95 I was offered a position at headquarters. They created a new position where it was Dennis Ferrell: System Director for Religious and Volunteer services.

Dennis Ferrell: Because the the director, Dennis Ferrell: she had...all she could do was the the religious part of it. The states' Dennis Ferrell: services that are provided to inmates, Dennis Ferrell: for your just information, the state provides. Well,

Dennis Ferrell: nationally, offenders are given the opportunity to practice their faith. So to do that they submit a request, and that request comes up to headquarters for Maryland. It was the Office of Religious and Volunteer Services. And Nancy was very good, very smart person. She would do the research of a particular faith, Dennis Ferrell: and authorize it or not authorize it. If it was authorized, she'd create policies and procedures for how that faith would be practiced within a prison. Dennis Ferrell: So I got the chance to learn how to write policy Dennis Ferrell: and procedure and how to manage

Dennis Ferrell: religious programming. Because at every prison there was a chaplain, Dennis Ferrell: or there was someone who was designated to be a designee for either religious services or for volunteer services. I was given the direct responsibility for managing the volunteers across the state. And Maryland's prison system at that time had some 3,000 volunteers. Dennis Ferrell: And you had volunteers who came in Dennis Ferrell: with another...with a church and a mission.

Dennis Ferrell: Their mission may have been providing church service support, Dennis Ferrell: or they might come in just for Bible reading. Dennis Ferrell: Or for Muslims, it may be how to set up their Friday prayer services, or how to set up education programs. I would also work with individual inmates who wanted to do a group. They called them self-help groups. It might be a chess club, it might be an art group. I would also work with education in terms of Dennis Ferrell: providing orientation for all people coming into prisons,

Dennis Ferrell: because they were important that Dennis Ferrell: outside folks, outside volunteers understood what Dennis Ferrell: they're coming into. Prisons represented, and sometimes there was a real security concern for administering prison operations. Dennis Ferrell: But it was very worthwhile, because it provided needed services.

Abby Bowling: So not to cut you short, it's really interesting to hear how your educational experience and all your work experience connects. But we Abby Bowling: don't have too, too much time left. So if it's okay with you, I think we can transition to talking about your time with the Alumni Association at Towson. Dennis Ferrell: Okay. Go ahead. Abby Bowling: Can I just start by asking when you joined and what motivated you to join?

Dennis Ferrell: Okay, I've been on the board close to two years. Dennis Ferrell: I was asked to join after...I had spent a lot of time going to activities. Dennis Ferrell: I had been a member of the Alumni Association for a number of years, Dennis Ferrell: maybe somewhere close to 20.

Dennis Ferrell: Because Dennis Ferrell: around that time I started to go to football games and basketball games, some 20 years ago Dennis Ferrell: or more. And Laurie, Dennis Ferrell: the Vice President for the Alumni Association, I was told she'd like to talk to me about something that I may be interested in, because I was going on activities that the Alumni Association was provide coordinating.

Dennis Ferrell: I went to Washington, DC for the Chinese festivals, so it was an opportunity to do certain things. Dennis Ferrell: I had Dennis Ferrell: just retired, Dennis Ferrell: I retired in 2014.

Dennis Ferrell: So I was looking for... to do things, not sit around the house and that kind of thing. So I was doing these little activities with the Alumni Association. Dennis Ferrell: And she eventually asked me, would I be interested in joining the Board? Dennis Ferrell: I had served on boards before. I served on boards for a vocational rehabilitation nonprofit, Dennis Ferrell: a youth diversion program,

Dennis Ferrell: my neighborhood association, so it was something that Dennis Ferrell: I thought I could find interesting. I didn't understand what I would be doing or how I could help in any way. And I spent some time trying to figure that out, Dennis Ferrell: and it turns out a lot of things that I thought about, the alumni session was already doing. Dennis Ferrell: I have been serving on

Dennis Ferrell: a committee that provides grants and Dennis Ferrell: scholarship monies. We do this award twice a year. Dennis Ferrell: We'll be doing a grant for students and alum, sometime in early spring, Dennis Ferrell: and then we'll do awarding of scholarship to individuals based on

Dennis Ferrell: not just their academics, but their community work, Dennis Ferrell: what they're trying to do. Dennis Ferrell: And I've been very impressed with Dennis Ferrell: Alumni Association and their ability to do that.

Dennis Ferrell: Last year, last spring, early spring, Dennis Ferrell: we awarded $21,000 to individuals. Abby Bowling: Oh, wow! Dennis Ferrell: It's a lot of money. And then that...later spring we awarded another $16,000. I mean, it's like $38,000 or $37,000 that we have

Dennis Ferrell: provided to support student and alumni post-work for their self-development efforts. Dennis Ferrell: But I'm still... Abby Bowling: That's amazing. Dennis Ferrell: Oh, go ahead!

Abby Bowling: I was just saying, that's really amazing. What would you...would you say that that's kind of the best part, or what would you say your favorite part of being a part of this board is? Dennis Ferrell: Well, that's a part of it that I had no expectation that we would do. And probably Dennis Ferrell: only those of us who do this understand how that amount of money, and that kind of effort is provided. Dennis Ferrell: But it's also...something that we don't do...across the board. Like, student services. It's amazing how much

Dennis Ferrell: Towson does to support an individual's successful effort to get an education. Dennis Ferrell: They provide clothing, they provide food, Dennis Ferrell: they'll fix your car if you can't get to school. I mean, it's amazing how much they've done. On the outside, you think the school's got a ton of money, Dennis Ferrell: and you wish they would stop asking you for money, that they've got a ton of money, and they really don't.

Dennis Ferrell: But they, it appears that we put the money where Dennis Ferrell: it's the best for students, to Dennis Ferrell: support student activities. It's amazing what we do as an institution. Dennis Ferrell: I've still been trying to search how best to provide, I guess, input

Dennis Ferrell: or effort into supporting the school's efforts for volunteers or for alumni. I've had some discussion Dennis Ferrell: with the senior management about that. Currently, we're serving on work groups and looking at how to improve engagement Dennis Ferrell: with alumni. I have some ideas about that Dennis Ferrell: stem from my profession is as a salesperson,

Dennis Ferrell: but also as a sociologist. I'm not a sociologist, I mean, I don't have a Dennis Ferrell: master's in that. But I do know that Dennis Ferrell: meeting the needs of folks is is very important. Dennis Ferrell: And we've been extremely successful in efforts to diversify the student body.

Dennis Ferrell: I would like to carry that over to how do we better engage with with alumni, because Dennis Ferrell: there are different groups of alumni. There are those who lived on campus or live on campus, Dennis Ferrell: and they have a very different experience of of college life than those who Dennis Ferrell: commute. I found that Towson has a definition of 'commuting student' that differs from what I thought it was.

Dennis Ferrell: They also call those folks who live off-campus in housing Dennis Ferrell: that is associated with the school's housing provision, Dennis Ferrell: but they're considered commuters because they're off campus, which is different than Dennis Ferrell: someone who works for the post office during the day and goes to school at night

Dennis Ferrell: and lives on Baltimore Street in downtown Baltimore. Dennis Ferrell: They have a very different Dennis Ferrell: college experience than the individual who Dennis Ferrell: is a resident who lives on campus. And you have to take- I think you have to take into consideration that person's age. Even though you may have a 20- or 30-year-old living on campus because

Dennis Ferrell: they originate from New York or somewhere, and they want to have the college experience. Dennis Ferrell: I would like to see, and I've voice this a couple of times, we find a way to Dennis Ferrell: bring the commuting student more into the family of student body. Dennis Ferrell: So when we do stuff for... When we do things for

Dennis Ferrell: students, it's not just those who live on campus, because we're looking for Dennis Ferrell: those individuals who are commuting students to be part of the Alumni Association. And some of those -that I know, anyway- have a bad taste in their mouth about Dennis Ferrell: their school experience, because there doesn't seem to be any effort to reach out to them. Dennis Ferrell: These folks come to school to get an education and a degree, so they can go get a better job. They don't come for education to have a college experience, and they're not necessarily...

Dennis Ferrell: that's not their motivation. Dennis Ferrell: Their motivation is more of "this is a means to an end" Dennis Ferrell: versus this is the means. Dennis Ferrell: You see, on television, and you see in, you know, maybe friends or families,

Dennis Ferrell: a kid go off to college, and I mean, it's a big deal. Dennis Ferrell: When you're a commuter it's like, "Oh, what are you doing now?" "Oh, I'm going to school." "Where?" And then it becomes almost like a job that you have. Dennis Ferrell: So we have a very different mindset of the commuting student than we have from the the student who lives on campus. I like to see us Dennis Ferrell: address those two separately, in a way that

Dennis Ferrell: brings value to each each population. Dennis Ferrell: So that's one of my goals, to find that opportunity to do that. There's currently an Dennis Ferrell: effort to develop a strategy in terms of how to better engage alumni and students. Dennis Ferrell: And I participated in a webinar yesterday, a

Dennis Ferrell: presentation on things we can consider to be Dennis Ferrell: part of a successful Alumni Association engagement effort. Dennis Ferrell: And then there is another opportunity that's coming up in December. So, Dennis Ferrell: that's pretty much where I am with the Board.

Abby Bowling: That's really cool. Those are really great goals, and I mean I could see how your time as a commuter at Towson would motivate you to, you know, want to improve that for current commuter students. Dennis Ferrell: Well, it's also...in sales you understand that... Dennis Ferrell: who are your customers? And your customers are very different, and you can't forget that. You can't forget that. Abby Bowling: Sure. Yeah, absolutely.

Abby Bowling: So having been, you know, around the university for so long. What are some ways that you've seen either the campus or administration, or the student population change over the time that you've been involved with Towson? Dennis Ferrell: Let me come right back to that. I'll be right back. Dennis Ferrell: I'm sorry. Abby Bowling: No worries.

Dennis Ferrell: I got a wall that's coming down, so. And the contractor's here trying to do this so he can give me a price on it. Dennis Ferrell: So where are we? Abby Bowling: What are some ways that you've seen Towson change as a whole Abby Bowling: through your time that you've been involved with the University?

Dennis Ferrell: The sheer growth of the campus is unbelievable. Dennis Ferrell: I think the offerings, the curriculums, the quality of the facilities, Dennis Ferrell: not that they weren't when I was in school, but it's so much more. Dennis Ferrell: Having the opportunity to see the inner workings, well, at

Dennis Ferrell: my level of seeing the inner workings, Dennis Ferrell: you see the coordination that comes into play in terms of Dennis Ferrell: the different departments working together, knowing each other and the like. Dennis Ferrell: Yesterday's webinar talked about stovepipes that can exist in organizations, and

Dennis Ferrell: how one department can operate so independently Dennis Ferrell: that it really doesn't add to Dennis Ferrell: the major mission of the school, Dennis Ferrell: or the effort. I don't see a lot of that with Towson. I see a lot

Dennis Ferrell: of departments are very supportive of each other. Dennis Ferrell: I see a lot of that in the like, the special events. Dennis Ferrell: The new health building, or you see Dennis Ferrell: the Deans from, then you see the staff from the different departments at these different events.

Dennis Ferrell: and that takes a lot of commitment from individuals, because this is during your personal time and the like. Dennis Ferrell: But it seems to be a genuine effort to ensure that Dennis Ferrell: the one goal of the school's success is the one goal for everyone involved. Dennis Ferrell: So just... they've been able to grow without losing the span of control.

Dennis Ferrell: And I think that's excellent, Dennis Ferrell: and there's constant discussion about new growth, new buildings, new departments. Dennis Ferrell: The research effort is a major vision for the school, Dennis Ferrell: to increase the

Dennis Ferrell: research in the various departments. I'd love to see criminal justice Dennis Ferrell: become a major program and contribute to the research that the school Dennis Ferrell: looks to improve and expand. Dennis Ferrell: Because we live in an area where a lot of

Dennis Ferrell: the decisions and the efforts around criminal justice is Dennis Ferrell: is not done by criminal justice experts. It's Dennis Ferrell: very political, but criminal justice is very political. Dennis Ferrell: So that's pretty much my experience.

Abby Bowling: Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Abby Bowling: So last question. To kind of Abby Bowling: move back in time a little bit, and compare your time at Towson to now. What are some ways that administration or other services on campus supported students during your time at Towson? And how do you see that compared to now? How... Abby Bowling: do you feel that those people are effective or not at supporting students?

Dennis Ferrell: I had... Dennis Ferrell: Well, I always had the sense that professors really cared about you as an individual. Dennis Ferrell: I had a sociology professor, Doctor... I don't know if she was a PhD or not. Dennis Ferrell: Her name was Cockey. She was wonderful.

Dennis Ferrell: I had a business professor, Dennis Ferrell: psychology professor. It was Dennis Ferrell: really... I had really sensed that Dennis Ferrell: they were gonna share through classroom,

Dennis Ferrell: through any times you come in to talk to them about situations. Our psychology professor invited Dennis Ferrell: myself and two others from the class to her home, and we talked about Dennis Ferrell: substance abuse and the like. And we each brought in a Dennis Ferrell: project to discuss with the group. So it went a great deal... it was almost like an elementary school. When teachers like, they wanted to hug and kiss you, like, "You're so sweet, little kid." Well, it wasn't a lot of hugging and kissing, but it was like a great effort to extend to us

Dennis Ferrell: a hand of help. Dennis Ferrell: Because they cared about our education, and us as an individual. And you saw it whether it was in classes in the fall, in the spring, or in the summer. Dennis Ferrell: I used to- I had a German shepherd at the time. He was about six months old. I used to bring him to summer school, and he'd wait in the hallway. Dennis Ferrell: I mean, where else would you? Would someone approve something like that?

Dennis Ferrell: But it was part of the culture then. That was during a time when, Dennis Ferrell: I mean, the country was on a Dennis Ferrell: trip of changing the world, and Dennis Ferrell: there was a lot of protesting against what's considered wrong or needs to be changed. And

Dennis Ferrell: how do you make the world a better place? So Dennis Ferrell: I think that's still the case. It maybe takes on a little more of a conservative approach to it, Dennis Ferrell: but I get from some students that I Dennis Ferrell: talk with, or when you read their request for grants, and

Dennis Ferrell: what departments they worked in, and Dennis Ferrell: you get a sense that these students are receiving the same kind of support Dennis Ferrell: both in class and outside. That nourishes learning and self-development. Dennis Ferrell: Different times, different approaches.

Dennis Ferrell: I'm not sure how many classes are held outside now. But when I was there, it was always a class. "Let's go outside." And whether that was because the air conditioner didn't work in Stevens Hall, or what, but it was a Dennis Ferrell: different time. But the flavor of caring and support Dennis Ferrell: has carried over through the years. Abby Bowling: Alright.

Abby Bowling: Okay, so just a few quick wrap up questions. Is there anything else that you want to share about your time at Towson, or your time with the Alumni Association? Dennis Ferrell: No. I'm very fortunate that I was able to be accepted at that time. Dennis Ferrell: I learned a great deal. It wasn't necessarily the Dennis Ferrell: the classroom topics or the program topics, it was the total experience.

Dennis Ferrell: It was very valuable. Very valuable. Dennis Ferrell: Yeah. Abby Bowling: Is there anyone else that you would recommend that we speak with? Dennis Ferrell: Hmm!

Dennis Ferrell: I have a neighbor, Dennis Ferrell: who's an alum, he's old friend of mine. Dennis Ferrell: He's doing something in our neighborhood that's very interesting and needed. Dennis Ferrell: I'll talk

Dennis Ferrell: to him and see if he would be interested, Dennis Ferrell: and if he is, I'll pass it on. Abby Bowling: Yep. Abby Bowling: Wonderful.

Dennis Ferrell: Yeah. Abby Bowling: Alright. Abby Bowling: Well, that is all the questions I have. If you have any last comments or questions, feel free. But other than that, Abby Bowling: that's a wrap.

Dennis Ferrell: Thank you for the opportunity. Abby Bowling: Yeah, thank you so much for speaking with us. Dennis Ferrell: Yeah, I hope there's some value to come out of it. Abby Bowling: Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's great to hear, you know,

Abby Bowling: what Towson has done for people and how it, you know. Abby Bowling: connects the college experience to the whole rest of somebody's life. I mean- Dennis Ferrell: Yeah. Abby Bowling: -that's really cool, really valuable, so.

Dennis Ferrell: You're welcome. Abby Bowling: Alright.