Interview with ChristieLyn Diller

Introduce yourself for the interview. Sure. Yeah. And nice to meet you.

So, my name is ChristyLyn Diller, and I am a graduate of the Women's Studies master's program from Towson University. I graduated in 2006. After that, I actually was an adjunct professor in the

department for, I think, two and a half years or so. Yeah. So what was your initial education journey like, and how did you end up at Towson after that?

Sure. So I went to college for an undergraduate degree in a small school called Marist College, which is in Poughkeepsie, New York. It's on the Hudson River.

It's really pretty. And I didn't... I actually started as a fashion major because I was very into art and I made my own clothes in high school and and was sort of

creative, and you know, I was sitting in one of my fashion classes and realized like, it didn't matter in the world. I just came to this realization my first semester that I

couldn't do that as a career because it didn't seem... In my mind it didn't matter, like, in the world. So I was exploring things and I was sort of undecided. I ended up going to communications and I as one of

my requirements, I had to take some history courses, and so I took Women's history as a requirement course, and I just really got into it and loved it. And after that just started taking more courses that fell

under women's studies and ended up minoring in women's studies for my undergrad. And then after that was like, this is sort of where I want to go.

And So what was interesting is when I was there at... So, Marist College is a Catholic affiliated college. It used to be very, like, officially Catholic. I had priests that still taught classes and and whatnot.

And, you know, I was raised Catholic but not really practicing. And so it was one of the struggles on campus that kind of got me involved was... There was, like, you couldn't get birth

control from the Health Center. They wouldn't even talk to you about it. You'd have to go to the hospital. And then it was a Catholic hospital.

But, you know, there was just like certain limitations on the campus for the campus community that were really a struggle. At the same time... So that... I graduated undergrad in 2004, that was the era of, you

know, George Bush. And at the time, we thought he was the worst president ever. And it's pretty, pretty bad. So I got involved with Planned Parenthood of the Mid Hudson

Valley, which is in Poughkeepsie, and volunteered with them as a student, and we, you know, organized a bus of people to go down to a protest in DC and just got really involved in, like, in

particular reproductive health justice and and whatnot. So I knew that that was sort of the direction I wanted to go in professionally. So it's the senior year of undergrad, I'm figuring out what

I want to do with my life, and I say, I want to keep learning. So I was looking up women studies programs and I found Towson and it looked like a really great program. I applied.

I'd never even visited. I don't even think I saw the campus until I got accepted and then I, you know, moved down and just kept going right there.

Wow. That is an extreme journey from fashion all the way to basically protesting for women's rights. Right. Yeah.

At the time, I mean, it was a really horrific... I mean, it's gotten worse. But at the time, we thought it was so bad. You know, with all these attacks on Roe and, you know, track laws

that were happening, which still happens, where, you know, states are trying to make it just more difficult for women to get access to abortion, healthcare, and and other services that I can, you know, consider essential medical care.

So it was just... It was a wild time and I just, you know, knew that that's kind of where my heart was. Yeah. So is there anyone that inspired you along this journey? Anyone

who inspired me along this journey? You know, honestly, I was inspired a lot by my peers and by, honestly, professors. You know, I had taken a class...

It's funny. It was something funny. So I was a pretty good student and I got pretty good grades and I got a B in that women's history class and it really, like,

upset me because I was, like, really dedicated to it and I usually was, like, getting A's and whatnot. But it didn't matter. It just resonated with me.

And then in grad school I got one B and it was in Doctor Rio's class for, I think it was, like, statistics or something. It was just really challenging. But I really loved her.

So she really inspired me a lot. You know, Cecilia Rio. And I actually asked her to be my advisor. And I was assigned, I think, to somebody else.

And she was like, oh, are you sure? So she sort of helped me, you know, through the rest of my academic journey in Towson. Yeah.

But as far as like an individual person who inspired me, no, I think it was just that it was the culture of the times and also, you know, seeing what was happening, what was happening to people around me and to women, you know, who were struggling to

get access to care. I just knew that that's, you know, I could help in that arena and that's the direction I wanted to go in. Did you feel like you faced any obstacles while going down the

path? I mean, the obvious obstacles, but anything that stands out to you? Yeah, I mean, so I think the two biggest obstacles that I'd

faced, you know, like, again, I don't want to drill too into this, but, you know, being in, like, a Catholic school, and believing in things that were against that that doctrine and, you know, really trying to make change in an unfriendly

environment. Now I will say that I had excellent... I had other professors out there that were excellent. I called her Doctor Jam.

But Joanne Myers was a professor of mine who I took a feminist theory class with an undergrad. And she's been sort of an inspiration and sort of connected me to, like the history of the Mid Hudson

Valley, like, that's where the Roosevelts were from. That's where Eleanor Roosevelt was. And there's all this history, you know, steeped in that area, so that, you know, that one challenge, you know, sort of

that religious background and what was going on politically. But you know, one of the challenges I faced is, you know, then I had that that minor in women's studies and I was like, OK, I'm going to get a masters in women's studies and I focus

on public policy. But people didn't know what it was. You know, people didn't understand what I was studying and why it was important.

And I struggled with that with my family a bit, you know, and then they make assumptions about you because you're doing this field of study and, you know, what that means, and whether it's not serious or, you know, there's no career

in this field, I think a lot of people definitely just assume, like, questioned my sexuality, you know, because I want to study women's studies, just all these, like, inherent prejudices because people didn't really know what it was.

Yeah. Yeah. So just a lot of stigmatization around it. Yeah.

So your parents and family didn't really support you. Did you have anybody else that supported you during this time? Honestly, it was very self driven. You know, my parents, you know, they encouraged me to go to

college, but the Graduate School was on my own and it's something that I just wanted to do. And, you know, of my friend group in undergrad, only one other person was going to grad school directly after, 'cause I went

straight through and didn't take a break. So I did feel kind of alone in the process. But thankfully I have pretty strong resolve. So I knew that it was what I wanted to do and I was just

going to do it. Yeah. But I didn't... I didn't really have a lot of encouragement and I didn't

really have a lot of support in it, you know, of course, you know, my family, you know, was fine with me pursuing my education. But again, they just weren't sure what what I was doing when

I was taking on more debt, student loan debt, you know, all those fun things. Yeah, that is quite challenging. I'm going to kind of transition on to something else.

What kind of ideology or theory do you think stuck out to you the most during, like, your education? Yeah, you know, it's a great question. I was thinking about that, you know, coming into women's

studies and gender studies and all, you know, you learn sort of the basics is like liberal and radical feminism, right? And like, what that means, one's working within the system and one's knocking down the system and doing her own thing.

So I was sort of identified more with, like radical feminism and that idea of like, you know, feminism is the notion that women are people, too. But in studying it more, and especially at Towson, you know,

I took more of an understanding of intersectional, intersectionality and intersectional feminism. And that's one of the things that I really loved about the program and how I've come to, like, identify and explain it to

others. It's really, it's not just about women, right, or people who identify as women or female. It's really about understanding and lifting up all marginalized

communities and and understanding everyone's experiences and how every asset of their personality and their lived experience influences that. So I think it made me a more well-rounded person, kind of

switching that mindset, you know, where it's not just like A or B, there's other schools of thought here, but really understanding, yes, that whole of the person and the whole of that experience,

that's going to influence their experience, for sure. Yeah. It is very nice that Towson has that option, and they're very educational with that.

Yes. I lost my thought. I'm so sorry. So, do you think that intersectional feminism is one of the more prominent feminisms today?

And do you think it's important that it is more prominent? I think it is, but I don't think people acknowledge it for what it is. Right?

I mean, you and I, we talk about it. We know the subject matter. But if you say that to, like, the layperson they may not know what you're talking about.

I think it's... Feminism has evolved to sort of mean more of that, right? And it's not just, you know these cut and dry definitions of, you know, like, well, we want everything to be equal.

You know, because it's not about equal, it's about equity, right? Making sure everyone has the same opportunities and the same accommodations so that you can even get on the same

playing field. So I don't, I feel like... Yeah, people don't know what they're naming necessarily, but they believe in, you know, I think as a society we've come a little bit since then.

The people accept that we want to be respectful and appreciative of that everyone has their own limited identity and their own experience.

Not that people are going to pinpoint it and say, that's intersectional feminism, but it just is sort of the prevailing thought. Yeah, I guess you're right. There is a lot of ignorance or misconception surrounding it.

So I guess my next question is, have you ever seen that or experienced that in your field? Because I I know you worked at Planned Parenthood and you work at UMD now,

so it's a very... That's different, you know, it's a very wide range of jobs. It is. You know, I see it more...

I identify more in seeing people exercise their privilege over others, whether they know it or not. And sometimes it's... A lot of time it may be men, but a lot of time it's other women, right?

We're not understanding other women's perspectives. Yeah, it's been... I've been fortunate to have a good a career in sort of a care environment, right?

So, yeah, I got involved with Planned Parenthood in undergrad, and then I worked there right after grad school for six years, which was a wonderful experience, and then shifted to animal welfare and then shifted to higher education.

It's always sort of been, well, going back to what I first said, stuff that I care about, right? So stuff that I think matters in the world. But yeah, I'm losing my train of thought.

Sorry. You are OK. That will happen. That's OK. So I guess I can shift to another question that's a little

different as well. Were there any moments in history during your time growing up that made you lean towards feminism or women in gender studies, 'cause I know you said you were going to fashion or

starting school with fashion. Yeah, growing up. Let's see. I have,

I mean, I grew up with divorced parents, my sister and I, we spent, you know, we lived with our mother and we spent some, you know, some time with my dad on, like, some weekends and and what- not.

But we had a very independent grow, you know, we were very independent. We were sort of unsupervised a lot. So we sort of forged our own paths.

And I had women in my life who were really strong, like, independent women and we always looked to them as far as, like, what I wanted to do with my life and that I wanted to be independent,

you know, and a part of it that I've.. This obviously is not applied to a lot of women, but the way I internalized a lot of that is I didn't want to get married for a long time and I definitely didn't want to

have any children. And fast- forward, I did get married to a man and we have decided we do not want... I mean, I always knew I didn't want children, but thankfully he also decided he didn't want to have children.

And so I think this sort of course helped solidify in my mind that I was doing... I was on the right path, that I was doing the things that I wanted to do.

And by pursuing this, you know that it was OK, right? That it was OK. And it wasn't less of a person to make those choices. So yeah, growing up like that, coming from sort of a fractured

home environment and a place where I was very independent, I just saw pursuing education and becoming a strong woman as my way out, I guess, as my way to out of that, those sort of doldrums and into like, success.

Yeah. And of course, I mean, of course I also experienced a lot of, you know, the negative effects of living in just, like, a patriarchal society, right, whether it's being, you know,

having a job at sixteen where my boss is, you know, talking to me, but he's looking at my boobs, right? Or awkward hugs or awkward, you know, or cat calling, you know, just all this sort of nonsense that comes with, like, just being

a woman, and why that shit is still happening and people think it's OK when it is not OK. Yeah. So basically, rejecting the norm is what led you to this. Rejecting the norms, right.

You know, and I thought about it a lot too, at the advent of like, the Me Too movement. And every person I knew had their own story of that, right? Nobody was exempt.

Nobody that I knew had never experienced some sort of harassment or abuse. It had... It had always happened.

And that's fairly sad. Yeah. I think even if you ask a man, they might have a story themselves, which is surprising, yeah.

But yeah. Whether they're comfortable telling it or not. But yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So how do you think your time teaching at Towson...

Like, how do you feel about that time? That was, it was a fun time. Like it was very rewarding and it was also really challenging. So, you know, I always kind of a joke that, like, the difference

between undergrad and graduate school to me is that in grad school everybody wants to be there. People are really invested in the classes and the program. They want to learn.

They want to do the readings. They want to do the work. Undergrad, not quite there. It's people figuring out what they want to do. So then coming off of a, you know, an intense grad program

and then teaching undergrad students who... So I was teaching, like, women's studies 101 or introductory women's studies. So I had a course of, you know, 35 students of which thirty of them did not care or didn't want to be there.

They were taking it because it was a Gen Ed requirement or they thought it would be easy or whatever it was. So it was challenging to get people interested and invested.

And I do feel like I was able to do that to some effect. Like, there was a couple students who, you know, really surprised me and, you know, came through and just really enjoyed the subject matter.

I mean, I haven't heard from any that are like, I suddenly want to be a women's studies major. I mean, that would be delightful, but it was a challenging experience in that,

yeah. Trying to get people to, first of all, even understand what we're talking about and why it's important. Yeah, it is.

And it's also a very thick conversation topic. They use a lot of scientific language. It... Yes.

And I struggled with that too. Right. Like, it's a lot of theory. It's a lot of read...

It's a lot of reading and it's a lot of thick, like you said, thick subject matter that you have to comprehend. One of the things I did to make it sort of more accessible was I

chose books that I thought were a little easier for people to read. So, you know, we had our standard text that was like feminist theory, whatever, textbook.

But you know, I chose, like, a book by Jessica Valenti and another one, but I can't remember the name of the author. But it was more like, it was written more in a modern vernacular, right?

And using experiences that people could relate to. And I think that helps a lot. So you did suggest some things that you did that made people more involved.

But do you think there's anything the department can do in general or other professors can do to make people more involved? You know, yeah, I know there's two.

courses that I think of that really impacted my experience at Towson and, like, helped me in my career, which were part of the program. One was about grant writing, and I'm...

It's slipping my mind who the professor was, but it was a really practical course where you had to find a non profit organization that you supported, do all the research and basically write a grant proposal for them to get funded.

And that single class was the most instrumental in my professional career as I went to work for a non profit and in fundraising and in communications. And just having that practical experience was really,

really integral. Another one that I took, and I can't remember the name of the course, but it required us to do an outside project.

And so I, two of my classmates and I, we connected with the Girl Scouts of Central Maryland and went into a female detention center and worked with the girls who were incarcerated through the Girl Scouts program.

And it was so impactful, you know, just to get out and see, like, what impact we could have on is, you know, these girls' lives, and it was just... First of all, just being there with them

and having somebody who was a little bit younger than the women they were, the people, the adults that they were dealing with that could, like, relate to them a little bit

more. And we developed a program to talk to them about what they would do when they were getting out. You know, what are you going to do when you get out of here?

And how could you, how could you prepare for an interview even if it's at McDonald's, right? And actually did, like, practical exercises with them. It was so eye-opening.

It was just, it was just an amazing experience and it sort of solidified that, like, I need to be helping other women in my life. And, you know, it was really eye opening too.

And I was also really interested in, like, prison reform and different things in undergrad, I did a couple of courses and I did some projects there where I worked with parolees and just people who

needed a second chance essentially. But working with the women, the girls, really, in the detention center, was critical because all of them, almost all of them had come from some background of

abuse, whether it was sexual abuse, physical abuse, mental abuse, they all came from some experience that really negatively impacted their lives and contributed in some way to their incarceration.

So just having an experience, so having an experience to work with them and be able to like help them in some small regard was really rewarding. So I would say that the things that I think the department

could really benefit from is, well, I don't know about "forcing," but, you know, making sure that students have those out of the classroom experiences. It is critical.

It is, you know, it is super critical. You can learn what you can learn from reading books and writing papers, but you have to go in the world and see what people are doing.

So, you know, requiring internships, right.? Requiring some sort of volunteer service. I got involved with Planned Parenthood because I actually applied for an internship.

I didn't get it. And then I said I still want to help you. And they were like, awesome. So I didn't get class credit for it or anything, but I still got

that same experience. So I would say that is the most important thing. Yeah, outreach is definitely important. And they don't do that enough at Towson.

I think that's something they should implement, actually. Yeah, you know, it's, funny enough, I have friends that did graduate with their fashion degree from, you know, the university that I went, I met there, and that program, that fashion program

requires everyone to do an internship. And as a result, I mean, I think it's not like a direct correlation, but it has a heavy influence, like 99% of their graduates have jobs in their field when they graduate.

It just, it's, like, such an impact on your direct experience because you you're going to graduate with this degree and you want to go in a certain field, but if you don't have experience doing anything, you can't get your foot in that

door. So before I even interviewed at Planned Parenthood, they saw from my resume, they called the other location and asked about me.

So it was that, whether I knew it or not, that got me that foot in the door. This happened. Yeah.

I think it also lessens the anxiety surrounding it, maybe imposter syndrome as well. You know, people go into the job force and they feel like they're not qualified regardless of their education.

So that is important. Yeah. And my, you know, my grad degree, it really made it practical.

Like I said, you know, I did that that grants writing course, you know, taking a class on... All my public policy courses, it really, I was like, you know, you kind of, like, what do you do with a women's students degree?

And I'm like, I went to Planned Parenthood and worked in fundraising and communications and I had the perfect educational background for it. It's like, this is what you do.

It's possible, you could get jobs. So yeah, it was... I would have never gotten there if I didn't go to Towson. Never.

Yeah. I saw your biography that the professor sent and I was like, wow, Planned Parenthood then also adjunct professor. And then now you're at UMD.

So can you explain a little bit more about your position at UMD and maybe how women in gender studies impacts it? Yeah, it doesn't necessarily. It's a little bit off.

I mean it's in the way I think is, so, I work at the alumni association for the University of Maryland and again, you know, going to grad school, it just really solidified in my mind the importance of higher education

and giving, making sure everyone has the same opportunity to a quality education. And you know, I never really thought I would ever work on a campus.

I mean other than, you know, adjuncting, I never really thought about it. But after working in nonprofits for eight years, it's, especially the Humane Society,

it's sort of a grind, and it's very rewarding emotionally, but it's also very draining emotionally. And, you know, I had a bit of, like, compassion fatigue from the Humane Society

in particular, I love animals, I've been vegan for 20 years, and, you know, you fall in love with some animals that end up not having the best outcomes and there's nothing you can do about it.

And it's just real frustrating. And I just needed a balance check. So I actually lived, right, I lived very close to the campus and I was like, let me, you

know, let me just check out... I really enjoyed when I was adjuncting and having that sort of... I like being on a college campus and being exposed to, like, ideas

and, you know, people from different areas and schools of thought. So I looked into it and I started in the marketing department because I've been doing marketing and

communications through my whole trajectory. And so I've been here almost nine years and I've been, you know, promoted into different positions. But right now what I do is I work with the alumni

association and work to get graduates back engaged with the university. And whether that's for their own professional developments, like maybe they're stuck and we offer, you know, career services

or webinars or events that can help, you know, help point them in the next direction they want to go in. But I also work closely with our student programming and and we have a student scholarship program that's really wonderful.

And so I work as a staff liaison on that. And that's very rewarding to know that, you know, I'm helping graduates pay it forward, essentially, to the next group of kids who need some help.

I mean, college is expensive, so... College is expensive. And I know people sort of laugh and they're like, well, I'm already paying so much money.

It costs a lot more than what the tuition covers and that's insane to think about. So I like being in a position where I can help people to get that, you know, get their education and do what they want

to do. Do you think in the future you might want to go back into women and genders, the field? Yeah.

You know, I'm not opposed to it at all. I will admit I am emotionally very upset right now with everything that's going on politically. You know, one thing I've never stopped is I've... And I think that

this is important for people to know and I think it's solidified because I've been working in this, you know, non- profit world, but if you can't... Sometimes one of the best things you can

do is make a donation. And not everyone always has the capacity to get up and go march in the streets or, you know, switch careers and go do something, you know, I mean, people have lives and children

and things they have to take care of. But it's a very powerful form of activism to support the causes that you believe in. And I have proudly been a financial supporter of Planned

Parenthood ever since, like, I never stopped supporting them. You know, participate in events and go to go to different things, and as well, other women's organizations as well, and just

support their work whether I can, you know, have the capacity to volunteer with them or not. But to keep them, like, top of mind and, you know, and charities and organizations that I think of...

I wouldn't rule out going back to it at some point. I mean, it's where my heart is, really. But I had gotten to a point where it's like, I had my

dream job. And you know what? I had this realization. I'm like, what do you do when you have your dream job and

you're not sure you want to do it anymore? Like, what's that, like, crisis of conscience? Because it just felt like a constant uphill battle, you know, and then where we are now is just catastrophic, you know,

the day that Roe was overturned, I was working from home. I legitimately went outside and cried for fifteen minutes on my front porch.

I was so devastated. And you know, everyone in my network was devastated also. We just, you never think that that would happen, especially after, I mean, we've been working on...

It's the community as a force. You know, I've been working on this progress for how many years and just to have it backpedaled so severely and to negatively impact people's lives so severely.

You know, at Planned Parenthood, we did, I did a lot of advocacy work where we, you know, worked with legislators on laws to protect access in Maryland. And I was really proud of that work.

You know, making sure these crisis pregnancy centers are labeled as what they are and not places that are actually going to give you actual information, but places that are just trying to convince you to have the baby.

They're not gonna support you afterwards, but they just don't want you to, you know, make the choice that you really need to make for yourself if that's what it is. So it's...

I will admit, yeah, I've been a little burnt out emotionally from it. Yeah, I can imagine in general just having to advocate and... Well, not having to, but wanting to advocate for others and

support, like, promoting resources is very important. And yeah, I can see how it would burn people out. And yeah, so... I kind of want to go to another subject, kind of back to previous ones, but is there a particular feminist author that

you have really clearly or kind of connected with? You know, I said earlier Jessica Valenti, and I do, I would say I really do identify with Jessica Valenti a lot. And when she first she came on the scene, she was right on the

same age as me, you know. And I was like, this is, you know, a woman, like, really putting out what we're all thinking, right? But like adding some background to it.

And I think I really resonated with that because it was sort of modern, a modern iteration of it. I mean, I've read a lot of feminist theory books and read a lot of authors and, you know, interpreted a lot of that.

I did actually read a lot on Margaret Sanger because I was really invested in the, you know, the reproductive rights movement, you know, and what she went through to start the first birth control clinic,

and, you know, we used to have a book at Planned Parenthood on, like a coffee table in a lobby that was letters that women wrote to her asking for help. And sometimes I would just sit and read those letters.

And, you know, this was what the first clinic was up in 1916. So imagine that time frame, you know, early 1900s where it's women who are like, I already have ten kids and I can't get my husband to leave me alone,

and I don't know what I'm going to do. You know, we can't afford to feed them, like these really serious situations that put in perspective, like, where we've come from and how bad that situation was.

So those sort of book, that sort of reading people's actual stories and their experiences really impacted me. And then, like I said, some of the more modern literature really, really impacted me too.

I think it is easy to connect with the modern literature not only because it kind of talks about what we're going through currently, but also it is a little easier to read. It is.

It is easier to read for sure. You know, I joked, I joked with one of my professors in undergrad. I really like Judith Butler.

And I was like, you know, my goal is I'm going to make Judith Butler, like, digestible to people. That's, like, what I want to do. And he just laughed.

You know, a lot of that stuff, it's thick, it's heavy to get through, you've got to read and reread to, like, understand what they're trying to, what they're trying to say. Yeah. So going, well, not really going along with that, but do

you think there's anything people currently in the women and gender studies field, or major, minor, could do to attract more people to come into this? Or maybe even just become a feminist, you know?

Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, I think, right. I think on a base level, like, standing behind what you believe in, standing up for it, whether that's showing up as a person,

like, as a volunteer, whether that's showing up as a protester, as a letter writer, calling, you know, calling your legislators, showing up by making a gift, you know, to support those causes.

You know, it's sort of like, we need to move beyond the thoughts and prayers, you know, like there's things you can do on a very base level to to move the cause along. But, you know, I think feminism still has like, a negative

connotation, right? People are like, oh, I'm not a feminist. But so maybe just, like, illustrating what that really means.

And yeah, I love going back to like, well, it's the radical notion that women are people, right? But it's beyond that. It's that we're all people.

And then our experiences all are all valid based on where we are. So I think what would help, what helped me too, was actually seeing what people do when they graduate. Right.

What do you do with this degree? Where are you going with it? What are you going to continue to study? You know, are you teaching?

Are you, you know, working? Where are you working in the field? Like, how are you actually applying that? I think that would be useful because I often think people...

I haven't heard this from folks, you know, they sort of attribute this degree as sort of a, like, you can't do anything with it. Like, whereas I think you can, unlike, you know, I don't want

to like disparage this, but like I have friends whose degree is in like medieval literature that's sort of more niche. Like I don't know what you're going to do with this. You want to work at the Renaissance festival forever?

But, like, there's practical, there's practical uses for this degree. And a lot of it, a lot of it is in the nonprofit sector too. So I think it's educating folks a lot about how

you're helping marginalized groups or persons or programs to, you know, be better, to help people, you know, reach their potential. That's what it's about.

I mean, to me that's what it all came down to was like, OK, this is helping improve the world. Yeah, definitely a lot of misconception, again, about feminism and who it supports, who it helps.

So, appreciate you speaking about that. Do you have any advice for people going into this field or even the minor or major? Yeah, I mean, I think the advice is definitely find your niche,

right? Like it can... It's so amorphous. There's so much, so many different directions you can go

in. I really like the policy angle, right? That helped me a lot. Learning just about laws and you know what what we needed to do

or what we have done in the past as a society. That got me the foot in the door with doing advocacy work. So I think, you know, definitely find your niche and it's OK to, like, change your mind, right?

Like, I changed my mind. I changed my major. I didn't declare the minor, actually, until like couple years into college when I had started taking those courses and I

realized how diverse it was, right? I was taking courses about women in prison. Like, never thought about that. Would have never done that, you know?

So just, like, if something's really interesting, you, like, follow that. Like, don't distrust your instinct and what direction it's it's going

in. And of course, I mean, like, I said this before, but get outside experience. You need to get outside the classroom.

So get an internship where you want it, push it, try to get there. If you can't get in, volunteer. Do it for free.

Sign up. You know, get involved with the programs you that you really want to get involved with because that's going to give you the edge.

And the other thing is maybe just think about where you, you know, where you are in your environment. One of my aunts told me this and I didn't even think about how big of a deal it was.

But, you know, as I was looking at grad school, she's just like, where do you want to live, you know? And I was like, I don't, you know, what do you... I'm from New Jersey, right?

And I moved to Maryland to go to grad school and get... I still live here. So because I like being close to the nation's capital and there's, like, that hub of decision-making, and, just, I also like living

in what is essentially a very liberal bubble but it's a comfortable place to want to live. So follow your instincts and find things that are useful, going to actually be useful in a real world experience.

Yeah, that's great advice. So you focus more on reproductive and somewhat intersectional feminism. Are there any aspects or areas of feminism that you would like

to kind of go into maybe in the future or that pique your interest now? Yeah. You know, so a lot of stuff that piques my interest that I, you

know, I watch online, like on social or whatnot, is a lot of stuff having to do with street harassment. Right.

All the sort of passive microaggressions that people experience because of their agenda... Not their agenda. I'm sorry, their gender identity, or because of their sexual

orientation, right? All these... Well, the concept of street harassment and just this microaggression, it's so pervasive in our culture.

We don't even think about it. Another area that I really enjoyed the studying and I took a lot of classes at Towson on language is... It speaks to sort of the overarching patriarchal world we live in, that all of

our language is gendered, right? Every norm of everything we do is gendered and it is the masculine, generic. Everything that is, even things that are supposed to be gender neutral,

it's because they choose the male term. And now we're going to apply that to everybody. Actually got into sort of a fight with someone on campus over it since we had a, you know, a big group discussion

over using the word alumni, right. Are we going to say alumni or alumnae? One is female, one is female. And you know, the university, I said, well, we're going to to be

gender neutral. We're going to use alumni. And I was like, that's not gender neutral, that is masculine generic.

So those, like, sort of little things, another area that I've, you know, read up on, I mean I've read a lot. I've gone to speeches and just a lot of my friends have experiences is with, you know, just gender fluidity and gender

identity. Right. And I'm... It makes me happy to see how much more. Well, it's, I shouldn't say happy because shit is bad, but,

you know, I think there is a lot more acceptance of like the trans and gender fluid community than there ever really has been. But then I think as a result of that getting more spotlight, there's a lot of dangerous stuff happening, a lot of violence

against the community, a lot of shit laws being put into place which do nothing. You know, protecting children from drag reading hour is not going to destroy the world sort of nonsense there.

So becoming more involved in that sort of that sort of fight, which at the end of the day, again, it's just human rights, right? It's just basic human rights for all people and it's... Feminism has

such a large role in pushing that agenda. Whether people want to identify it as that or not, that's where the fight starts. So I agree with you.

Yeah, there's there's definitely a lot of talk about gender identity now, but there is as well a lot of push back in policies being created and push back. Yeah.

And one of the things I think, I I think is very favourable is I've seen, you know, instead of a lot of programs used to just be like, the women's studies department, and now it's women and gender studies, right?

So even at that base level, like, we're not going to be exclusionary. We're not just talking about, you know, women, right? It's... This is bigger than us.

Yeah, it is. So I guess my last question is, is there anything that you wanted to talk about that I didn't really ask you about or get to?

I'm looking at your list here. I think I'm more curious like what's going to happen with this project, like what it's, you know, what you're all doing with it.

I'm just looking at my notes here. I mean, I'll just say this as a, you know, I wasn't entirely sure what I was getting into by coming to Towson. I just knew that I really wanted to do it and I wanted to learn

more and it gave me that platform, you know, and it was two year program, like, I 100% attribute it to my success because of the courses that I took, a lot of which were sort of outside-the-box things that weren't necessarily the standard

curriculum. You know, I took a course with Rio. Professor Rio. Is she still at Towson?

I don't know that professor. I'm actually a minor in women's studies, so I'm a psych major. So I know most of the psych professors. Got you. You know she...

I had just moved from... I was in New York. I moved to Baltimore, you know, sight unseen essentially, and knew nothing about it.

And I took a course called Urban Communities in Baltimore and it was so revolutionary to learn about just the history of Baltimore and the communities there and, you know, the disenfranchisement and the gentrification and how it has

impacted people's lives. And, you know, even through that, I did, you know, I did a project where I, like, interviewed these women who were, like, a hip hop trio in Baltimore and how they were using their music

as a platform for change. And it's just, it gives you the opportunity to explore all these interesting things that just have to do with the human experience.

So it's, like, sort of like sociology expanded, right? But I would say, yeah the program's life changing. It made me who I am and where I'm at a lot more than my undergrad degree, like, definitely that gave me the foundation, but

I was not ready for the real world after that. I needed something else. Yeah. The history of Baltimore is quite expansive.

It's, you know, and one of the books that I read for that, which, I mean, I marked up the whole book, was The Corner by David Simon. And I don't know if you ever watched the show The Wire, which

is one of the best shows that's ever been. It's, that's the iteration, the... Sorry. Words. Like, the show version of the book, essentially, which just goes into these dynamics of this culture

in Baltimore about, like, the drug culture and that just being poor and, like, what it meant, and all that stuff. But yeah, so, it's, most of these get you into all these little nooks and crannies of things that are very interesting

about the human experience. It definitely impacts every aspect of our lives and it is a great minor and major to get into. I think it definitely helps you in any field you're going to

go into. Well, what made you choose the minor? Honestly, I'm very passionate about reproductive rights as well.

It's kind of why I chose you as my interview subject. But yeah, and I had enough classes to minor in it. I had actually taken, like, the majority of the classes without even minoring in the subject because they...

Without even knowing it, right, 'cause it interested you. It's great. It's a great field to get into, or subject, but it really is.

Yeah. And a lot of, you know, a lot of my... I really encourage you to pursue that. There's so much work that needs to be done still for

reproductive healthcare. I mean, it is so rewarding working in Baltimore City, working in Maryland on reproductive health access, right And work...

I mean, just getting, like, working with the health departments and, like, all these different folks who are just really trying to, like, improve the conditions for women and their families. And it's just, it's such critical work, especially now.

Yeah, it is extremely important. Yeah. It's like you said, especially now. I mean, I came from a... I think this kind of put me there too,

as I came from a family where we didn't really talk about things and all very, like, hush-hush. And you know, my mother was honestly a little shitty about it.

She, you know, at one point she was like, tell me if you ever want to go on birth control. And then I said I did and she freaked out about it and, you know, had me go to the doctor but didn't tell them.

That's why I was going. And it was embarrassing. And it was a whole, you know, there's a whole stigma about it.

Like we just couldn't... I, you know, swore, like, I need to make this help. This needs to be better, you know. And in college, we had friends who had, you know, unintended

pregnancies or had STDs and needed help. And they didn't, couldn't talk to their families about it. And, you know, I remember bringing them to Planned

Parenthood and like, just being able to know that there's a place available where you can get services and that care about you as a person, right? It's very important work.

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. 'Cause a lot of people share that same story or stories in general. Just a lot of experiences are...

Yeah. And they're not great experiences to have. No one should experience that. No, 'cause it gives you this, you know, it's like, you start

your foundation of, like, your, I don't know, your reproductive health identity from, like, shame or like embarrassment, right. And it's wrong. I think that's why bad things happen too, right?

We don't... People don't know the resources that are available to help them sometimes. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I really appreciate you being here and taking the time to do this. Want me to explain a little bit about the project?

I can after I stop the recording. OK, yeah, tell me about what's-